Nobody said U.S. foreign policy couldn’t be criticized by Europeans, it just the fact that their barks are worse than their bites. Many Europeans purposefully look for things to criticize when it comes to the United States. I’ve read posts by Europeans on this board making a fuss about the divide between the American rich and poor and the Patriot Act as if Americans are ranting and raving about Hartz IV and the increase in German sales tax next year.

Many Europeans I know condemn the U.S. involvement in the Vietnam war but have no opinion of the 8-year war France led in Vietnam trying to reclaim it as a colony after WWII.

Many Europeans (Germans) I know are quick to condemn the U.S. for its treatment of native Americans, blacks and Gitmo inmates, but won’t discuss the European involvement in the slave trade and harsh treatment of the Indians, and defensively react to questions about the Holocaust with, “I had nothing to do with that!”

Many Europeans I know take Michael Moore’s word for the gospel, even though they were never interested in politics, current events, history or books before. They like to criticize the dangerous level of American obesity without admitting the fact that it (along with rising levels of alcohol consumption) is also becoming a problem in the countries.

I love Europe, I live here and plan to stay a little while longer, but it saddens me to think many of these people want to not like America and will find things to complain that go beyond foreign policy.

And please note, I haven’t taken any political stance with this post. I haven’t expressed any political opinion. Only dissatisfaction with the idea that, when there’s nobody else to blame, blame the USA.

Peach!

Duane


Lorenz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No one ever says that you didn't save Europe (the
> World?) in the second WW.
>
> But that doesn't mean that no one is allowed to
> criticise the US foreign policy any more, right?
> And also, you didn't do that just because you are
> such nice people, but didn't want to leave Europe
> to the Russians/Communism and of course the
> rebuilding of Europe was very profitable for US
> companies....
>
>
>

This is correct - I'd never claim the US did it alone, but their involvement was necessary.

And America was involved before Pearl Harbor (which had nothing to do with Europe), albeit more passively, supplying the British with supplies, pilots, logistics help, etc.

Of course, that was just the US playing the world's policeman. Arrogant Americans! How dare they help the British and the French against the Nazis! Why do they think they have to be everywhere!?!?

Koen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Europe was liberated by the Allies, which
> consisted of many countries, such as Canada,
> Poland, Great Britain, Australia, USA, Sovjet
> Union, etc.
>
> Not only by the USA, who actually weren't involved
> until they got attacked themselves in Pearl
> Harbor.
>
> --
> kind, over-fed rant

electric-duane Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nobody said U.S. foreign policy couldn’t be
> criticized by Europeans, it just the fact that
> their barks are worse than their bites. Many
> Europeans purposefully look for things to
> criticize when it comes to the United States. I’ve
> read posts by Europeans on this board making a
> fuss about the divide between the American rich
> and poor and the Patriot Act as if Americans are
> ranting and raving about Hartz IV and the increase
> in German sales tax next year.
>
> Many Europeans I know condemn the U.S. involvement
> in the Vietnam war but have no opinion of the
> 8-year war France led in Vietnam trying to reclaim
> it as a colony after WWII.
>
> Many Europeans (Germans) I know are quick to
> condemn the U.S. for its treatment of native
> Americans, blacks and Gitmo inmates, but won’t
> discuss the European involvement in the slave
> trade and harsh treatment of the Indians, and
> defensively react to questions about the Holocaust
> with, “I had nothing to do with that!”
>
> Many Europeans I know take Michael Moore’s word
> for the gospel, even though they were never
> interested in politics, current events, history or
> books before. They like to criticize the dangerous
> level of American obesity without admitting the
> fact that it (along with rising levels of alcohol
> consumption) is also becoming a problem in the
> countries.
>
> I love Europe, I live here and plan to stay a
> little while longer, but it saddens me to think
> many of these people want to not like America and
> will find things to complain that go beyond
> foreign policy.
>
> And please note, I haven’t taken any political
> stance with this post. I haven’t expressed any
> political opinion. Only dissatisfaction with the
> idea that, when there’s nobody else to blame,
> blame the USA.
>
> Peach!
>
> Duane
>
>


And, again, amen to that. I fully agree. And I'm European.

Lorenz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No one ever says that you didn't save Europe (the
> World?) in the second WW.
>
> But that doesn't mean that no one is allowed to
> criticise the US foreign policy any more, right?
> And also, you didn't do that just because you are
> such nice people, but didn't want to leave Europe
> to the Russians/Communism and of course the
> rebuilding of Europe was very profitable for US
> companies....
>
>

Oh c'mon, for petes sake. We Europeans always always critize and blame everything on the US and Israel. Are we allowed to critize are own past and present? We should.


>

Just want to add that I also love america and most americans that I meet are cool people. It's just that most people outside america don't agree with the policies of the current american administration. That's just a different political opinion: it absolutely does not mean that they don't love america. Most of them do. Really. Go to europe and you'll notice.

Hi Whale - I wish I could believe you. Why then is the typical European stereotype of an American a fat, dumb, sloppy, loud, fast-food eating, religious fanatic? Because most Euroepans really love Americans?

I want to apologize for getting so over-emotional with this topic. I've just been disappointed almost to the point of depression with the way I have but haven't been accepted by the Germany since I arrived here in 2002.

I don't want to cause problems - when I came to Europe in 2002 I was so happy to be out of conversative closed-minded America, only to find out it's more or less the same on both sides of the ponds. The philosophys and ideologies may be a bit different, but the lack of acceptance your receive if you chose to deviate from the norm is the same.

electric-duane Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Whale - I wish I could believe you. Why then is
> the typical European stereotype of an American a
> fat, dumb, sloppy, loud, fast-food eating,
> religious fanatic? Because most Euroepans really
> love Americans?
>
> I want to apologize for getting so over-emotional
> with this topic. I've just been disappointed
> almost to the point of depression with the way I
> have but haven't been accepted by the Germany
> since I arrived here in 2002.
>
> I don't want to cause problems - when I came to
> Europe in 2002 I was so happy to be out of
> conversative closed-minded America, only to find
> out it's more or less the same on both sides of
> the ponds. The philosophys and ideologies may be a
> bit different, but the lack of acceptance your
> receive if you chose to deviate from the norm is
> the same.


There you go. And I'm tired of that stereotype. It's racist. Same with the stereotype of the Israelis. And these two stereotypes are European.

Whale Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just want to add that I also love america and most
> americans that I meet are cool people. It's just
> that most people outside america don't agree with
> the policies of the current american
> administration. That's just a different political
> opinion: it absolutely does not mean that they
> don't love america. Most of them do. Really. Go to
> europe and you'll notice.


Yeah and the same people don't know or care about European politics and history. But we do care about American and Israeli politics and history. Now why is that?

I just crapped my pants.. feelin' a little uncomfortable now..

That's got to be embarrassing, Reptile. Now that makes me feel uncomfortable just thinking about your discomfort.....So you're just sitting there looking at the computer and, from out of nowhere, splat!!!...you crap your pants? Man, that's no good. Go get yourself cleaned up before you post anything else.

Lukester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That's got to be embarrassing, Reptile. Now that
> makes me feel uncomfortable just thinking about
> your discomfort.....So you're just sitting there
> looking at the computer and, from out of nowhere,
> splat!!!...you crap your pants? Man, that's no
> good. Go get yourself cleaned up before you post
> anything else.

Wish I could.. but my mothly shower is still 2 weeks away..

Reptile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just crapped my pants.. feelin' a little
> uncomfortable now..


Reptile - You should get these!

Delted it and sent LA FORUM an email...


Belgrade-Bucharest-Budapest-Brno



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-06-07 18:19 by Lorenz.

I am laughing so hard Cindy that I'm attacting a curious mob here at the office. I'll pretend to be coughing.

CindyC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reptile Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I just crapped my pants.. feelin' a little
> > uncomfortable now..
>
>
> Reptile - You should get these!

Hehe.. I laughed so hard I just crapped my pants again.. do they ship 'em to Holland?

I love that ad too!

Wasn't looking too good, but I was feeling real well.

Reptile- here you go dude, with compliments.

For 2 months I was not able to watch YouTube videos ( I get a some kind of a error) and now I installed Netscape and everything works fine.

NetScape Rules

__________________________

NICOS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
For 2 months I was not able to watch YouTube videos ( I get a some kind of a error) and now I installed Netscape and everything works fine.

Oh yeah, I remember that NICOS - you were a tortured soul during that time. Glad you're all better.

Thanks Lorenz, no harm! I just think we as Euorpeans at least in Sweden (maybe this is a Swedish problem) should reflect over our own past and presnt politics a little bit more.

Reptile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just crapped my pants.. feelin' a little
> uncomfortable now..


For God's sake wipe before it gets too dry!

Lorenz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No one ever says that you didn't save Europe (the
> World?) in the second WW.

They didnt. Soviet and the Allies did it from two directions.

In my first post, I specifically said, "no politics here", and what do some of you do?

See what's happened? We get diatribes and a lizard crapping himself.

I live in one of the most beautiful states in the USA -- some have called it "Little Switzerland", which may be going a bit far, but there's a great deal of natural beauty still remaining here. All of you would be welcome in our corner of the world.

Naively, I expected a travelogue of sorts, and some of you have provided this.

I DO understand your aversion to the present regime, but I find it curious that you don't put the same microscope on your own governments. Be that as it may, that WASN'T the intent of this thread.

So, I must rephrase my original question, and put it this way --

why would I want to visit ANY European country?

Specifically, to each fellow Euro Stones fan, how would you promote your particular country to an American visitor who loves good food, good drink, and is fascinated by the continent's history?

Go to France...very lovely, Ireland too.
The other countries aren't anything to brag about.

i think Erik is basically telling you to stay the hell away from him!

Nah, he can come, if he wants.

T&A Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i think Erik is basically telling you to stay the
> hell away from him!

Let me make a note of that -- Norway should remain terra incognita, unless accompanied by a US Marine Battalion Landing Team. Vikings still live there. LOL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-06-08 02:07 by bassplayer617.

electric-duane Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Whale - I wish I could believe you. Why then is
> the typical European stereotype of an American a
> fat, dumb, sloppy, loud, fast-food eating,
> religious fanatic? Because most Euroepans really
> love Americans?


which in itself is the biggest stereotype i've heard in a LONG LONG time

thanks for telling me, and most European's what we supposedly think of the yanks

Glenn, I give ya my eight fav's:
[www.visitsweden.com]
See the roller coaster... Thats where I am within 72 h...
Still its 760 km for me to go. - ...When ya got there,
just move on some 760 km from Göteborg or 450 km
from our capital... Northwards, that is. Fresh air,
smooth, cool, crisp landscape mixed up with wild untamed
rivers and forests and foamin seas. Wildlife like outback Canada.

[www.hungary.com]
The regions in Hungary. Get into a wine cellar
and listen to the BLUES of this peculiar central European
people with roots from beyond Ural.

Denmark. Danish vikings...[www.visitdenmark.com]...
Go see the 700 km long beach with white soft sand...
Bring the kids and see HC Andersens birthplace. Stroll in cool cool Copenhagen...

Norway... Randomly picked attraction in district Sogn og Fjordane [www.visitnorway.com]

Ireland... The Emerald Island... Ya always come back; once you're
there ya dont wanna leave it in the first place....[www.ireland.ie]

Belgium...[www.visitbelgium.com] (One word: Beer... Yummmi!)

Greece... Irrestable pix from Greek islands...[www.greeka.com]
My fav also blast loaded with ancient history: Crete.
Athens is also great. Hundreds of others nice islands...

Spain...[www.spain.info] Paradise on earth?

Apart from this you have countries of mysteries and Sagas like Finland, Iceland,
Scotland... Exciting Italy... Melancholic Russia... Modern Holland... UK with
England... The Great France... etc etc etc etc...
Visiting Europe wouldnt be like visting the US; its more like visiting the whole
America or both Americas plus the middle part and to that furthermore
added the very cradle of Western or 'white'/'Caucasic' (or, better, Germanic-speaking) culture.

Happy holidays... !
A good week for every country is a minimum as an apetizer; more for the Northern countries. Welcome to the Ol' world... Welcome Home! Exodus...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-06-08 03:03 by Baboon Bro.

Baboon Bro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glenn, I give ya my eight fav's:
>
> See the roller coaster... Thats where I am within
> 72 h...
> Still its 760 km for me to go. - ...When ya got
> there,
> just move on some 760 km from Göteborg or 450 km
> from our capital... Northwards, that is. Fresh
> air,
> smooth, cool, crisp landscape mixed up with wild
> untamed
> rivers and forests and foamin seas. Wildlife like
> outback Canada.
>
>
> The regions in Hungary. Get into a wine cellar
> and listen to the BLUES of this peculiar central
> European
> people with roots from beyond Ural.
>
> Denmark. Danish vikings......
> Go see the 700 km long beach with white soft
> sand...
> Bring the kids and see HC Andersens birthplace.
> Stroll in cool cool Copenhagen...
>
> Norway... Randomly picked attraction in district
> Sogn og Fjordane
>
> Ireland... The Emerald Island... Ya always come
> back; once you're
> there ya dont wanna leave it in the first
> place....
>
> Belgium... (One word: Beer... Yummmi!)
>
> Greece... Irrestable pix from Greek islands...
> My fav also blast loaded with ancient history:
> Crete.
> Athens is also great. Hundreds of others nice
> islands...
>
> Spain... Paradise on earth?
>
> Apart from this you have countries of mysteries
> and Sagas like Finland, Iceland,
> Scotland... Exciting Italy... Melancholic
> Russia... Modern Holland... UK with
> England... The Great France... etc etc etc etc...
> Visiting Europe wouldnt be like visting the US;
> its more like visiting the whole
> America or both Americas plus the middle part and
> to that furthermore
> added the very cradle of Western or
> 'white'/'Caucasic' (or, better, Germanic-speaking)
> culture.
>
> Happy holidays... !
> A good week for every country is a minimum as an
> apetizer; more for the Northern countries. Welcome
> to the Ol' world... Welcome Home! Exodus...
>
>
>
> Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/06 03:03 by
> Baboon Bro.

Beautiful. THIS is what I was looking for. Thanks, man.

See, if you live there, you don't fully appreciate the beauty of your own surroundings. You take it for granted. Take the point of view of a person who's never been there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-06-08 03:27 by bassplayer617.