Quote
JordyLicks96
According to Nico's Complete Works, Blow Me Mama came from the SATANIC Sessions in October 1967. The same sessions for She's Doing Her Thing.

I have no knowledge of those sessions. It would be great if there were dates associated with the songs.

Quote
TravelinMan

I think Blow Me Mama might be Hey Mama (July 1970), which might actually be Walk With Me Wendy. A modern mystery, that one!

What is the mystery exactly?

Mathijs

.............I've always had a hard time with the release of stuff like this, I guess because Klein brow beat the boys to sign so much over to him.

..........Maybe some of the cuts should be an added disc to their next album (at a reduced added price?) re: like only $5 bucks extra2

.."Hackney Diamond2 and Broken Glass" ????

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
TravelinMan

I think Blow Me Mama might be Hey Mama (July 1970), which might actually be Walk With Me Wendy. A modern mystery, that one!

What is the mystery exactly?

Mathijs

What exactly Walk With Me Wendy is actually called and when it was recorded. If before the ABKCO split, it wasn’t listed on the tapes Churchill brought to France.

That title has never been used prior to the FF Outtakes leak. Plus, Jagger is singing “honey”, not “Wendy” anyway lol

Give Me Your Hand was given Teddy Green

Quote
stonesurvive
.............I've always had a hard time with the release of stuff like this, I guess because Klein brow beat the boys to sign so much over to him.

..........Maybe some of the cuts should be an added disc to their next album (at a reduced added price?) re: like only $5 bucks extra2

.."Hackney Diamond2 and Broken Glass" ????

Which is a quirky thing about So Divine, Good Time Women, and Dancing in the Light. All of those backing tracks (and lyrics w/ GTW) were recorded before the split with ABKCO. Yet, there is no publishing info either in the liner notes or online publishing search.

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
TravelinMan

I think Blow Me Mama might be Hey Mama (July 1970), which might actually be Walk With Me Wendy. A modern mystery, that one!

What is the mystery exactly?

Mathijs

What exactly Walk With Me Wendy is actually called and when it was recorded. If before the ABKCO split, it wasn’t listed on the tapes Churchill brought to France.

That title has never been used prior to the FF Outtakes leak. Plus, Jagger is singing “honey”, not “Wendy” anyway lol

It has Keith in open G, Taylor noodling away, and it sounds exactly like the summer 1970 Olympic sessions that yielded CYHMK and All Down The Line outtakes, I'm Going Down etc. The piano again is not Nicky Hopkins but Stu or Bobby Whitlock.

Jagger is just shouting words, there's nothing really decipherable.

Mathijs

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
TravelinMan

I think Blow Me Mama might be Hey Mama (July 1970), which might actually be Walk With Me Wendy. A modern mystery, that one!

What is the mystery exactly?

Mathijs

What exactly Walk With Me Wendy is actually called and when it was recorded. If before the ABKCO split, it wasn’t listed on the tapes Churchill brought to France.

That title has never been used prior to the FF Outtakes leak. Plus, Jagger is singing “honey”, not “Wendy” anyway lol

It has Keith in open G, Taylor noodling away, and it sounds exactly like the summer 1970 Olympic sessions that yielded CYHMK and All Down The Line outtakes, I'm Going Down etc. The piano again is not Nicky Hopkins but Stu or Bobby Whitlock.

Jagger is just shouting words, there's nothing really decipherable.

Mathijs

Richards takes the solo at the end. Taylor is holding down rhythm and adding a cool little riff here and there (hardly noodling) and Jagger definitely sings “walk with me mama” at some point. But yes, I agree it’s mainly just nonsense coming up with melodies.


I also agree it’s from 1970, but if it’s from summer 1970, ABKCO has the rights and it would be listed along with any other songs with vocals. Hey Mama is a title listed in Hjort’s book from Olympic session logs in summer 1970, but not in ABKCO files, so may have become something else.

The song we’re talking about could have come from Stargroves later in 1970, which is why it isn’t listed anywhere. The Stones own in 100%



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-09-13 16:05 by TravelinMan.

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
stonesurvive
.............I've always had a hard time with the release of stuff like this, I guess because Klein brow beat the boys to sign so much over to him.

..........Maybe some of the cuts should be an added disc to their next album (at a reduced added price?) re: like only $5 bucks extra2

.."Hackney Diamond2 and Broken Glass" ????

Which is a quirky thing about So Divine, Good Time Women, and Dancing in the Light. All of those backing tracks (and lyrics w/ GTW) were recorded before the split with ABKCO. Yet, there is no publishing info either in the liner notes or online publishing search.

The split with ABKCO publishing was completed with Schoolboy Blues, which was done during the early 1970 STICKY FINGERS sessions.

When it was handed in to Klein... see, that's why whatever songs on EOMS are ABKCO Publishing, yet in late 1970 they continued to work on SF songs which included EOMS and GHS songs Tumbling Dice and Silver Train.

In 1971 they continued... and some of those are ABKCO Publishing.

When did they give ABKCO Shcoolboy Blues? And if it was later how did ABKCO determine what was recorded under contract (STICKY FINGERS) vs what wasn't (most of EOMS)?

As I recall that mess has been figured out over the years, here at iorr, and I may've been a part of it, but at this moment... maybe later this week or next month.

Quote
GasLightStreet

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
stonesurvive
.............I've always had a hard time with the release of stuff like this, I guess because Klein brow beat the boys to sign so much over to him.

..........Maybe some of the cuts should be an added disc to their next album (at a reduced added price?) re: like only $5 bucks extra2

.."Hackney Diamond2 and Broken Glass" ????

Which is a quirky thing about So Divine, Good Time Women, and Dancing in the Light. All of those backing tracks (and lyrics w/ GTW) were recorded before the split with ABKCO. Yet, there is no publishing info either in the liner notes or online publishing search.

The split with ABKCO publishing was completed with Schoolboy Blues, which was done during the early 1970 STICKY FINGERS sessions.

When it was handed in to Klein... see, that's why whatever songs on EOMS are ABKCO Publishing, yet in late 1970 they continued to work on SF songs which included EOMS and GHS songs Tumbling Dice and Silver Train.

In 1971 they continued... and some of those are ABKCO Publishing.

When did they give ABKCO Shcoolboy Blues? And if it was later how did ABKCO determine what was recorded under contract (STICKY FINGERS) vs what wasn't (most of EOMS)?

As I recall that mess has been figured out over the years, here at iorr, and I may've been a part of it, but at this moment... maybe later this week or next month.

If Old Glory is Let It Loose, then it appears Klein only got songs that had lyrics at the time of the split. Loving Cup, All Down The Line, Sweet Virginia, plus I’m Going Down, Family, etc. all had Jagger vocals on them. Old Glory/Let It Loose was an instrumental at the time, as was Potted Shrimp, Aladdin’s Story, Dancing in the Light etc

That’s my theory anyway. Or perhaps Klein didn’t care about the instrumentals because he knew he wasn’t going to get Jagger to finish them for him so he just fought for the songs with vocals as part of the split.

So perhaps Walk With Me didn’t have vocals at the time, and the guide vocals were added after the split. I’m Going Down is pretty nonsensical and it was included on Metamorphosis, so I have to think Klein would have taken Walk With Me if it was tracked (with vocals) before the split

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
GasLightStreet

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
stonesurvive
.............I've always had a hard time with the release of stuff like this, I guess because Klein brow beat the boys to sign so much over to him.

..........Maybe some of the cuts should be an added disc to their next album (at a reduced added price?) re: like only $5 bucks extra2

.."Hackney Diamond2 and Broken Glass" ????

Which is a quirky thing about So Divine, Good Time Women, and Dancing in the Light. All of those backing tracks (and lyrics w/ GTW) were recorded before the split with ABKCO. Yet, there is no publishing info either in the liner notes or online publishing search.

The split with ABKCO publishing was completed with Schoolboy Blues, which was done during the early 1970 STICKY FINGERS sessions.

When it was handed in to Klein... see, that's why whatever songs on EOMS are ABKCO Publishing, yet in late 1970 they continued to work on SF songs which included EOMS and GHS songs Tumbling Dice and Silver Train.

In 1971 they continued... and some of those are ABKCO Publishing.

When did they give ABKCO Shcoolboy Blues? And if it was later how did ABKCO determine what was recorded under contract (STICKY FINGERS) vs what wasn't (most of EOMS)?

As I recall that mess has been figured out over the years, here at iorr, and I may've been a part of it, but at this moment... maybe later this week or next month.

If Old Glory is Let It Loose, then it appears Klein only got songs that had lyrics at the time of the split. Loving Cup, All Down The Line, Sweet Virginia, plus I’m Going Down, Family, etc. all had Jagger vocals on them. Old Glory/Let It Loose was an instrumental at the time, as was Potted Shrimp, Aladdin’s Story, Dancing in the Light etc

That’s my theory anyway. Or perhaps Klein didn’t care about the instrumentals because he knew he wasn’t going to get Jagger to finish them for him so he just fought for the songs with vocals as part of the split.

So perhaps Walk With Me didn’t have vocals at the time, and the guide vocals were added after the split. I’m Going Down is pretty nonsensical and it was included on Metamorphosis, so I have to think Klein would have taken Walk With Me if it was tracked (with vocals) before the split

Wasn't the break with Klein an arrangement -we leave, you get these 4 tracks, and that's it? They likely recorded Moonlight Mile during the sessions that gave @#$%& Blues, but it is not part of the Klein deal.

Mathijs

Quote
wiredallnight
All in all we have 8 (available) versions of Munich Hilton between 1977 and 1982, one of them blending into Brown Leaves.

If you have them handy that would make for an interesting "release" in the "Hot Stuff" section !

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
GasLightStreet

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
stonesurvive
.............I've always had a hard time with the release of stuff like this, I guess because Klein brow beat the boys to sign so much over to him.

..........Maybe some of the cuts should be an added disc to their next album (at a reduced added price?) re: like only $5 bucks extra2

.."Hackney Diamond2 and Broken Glass" ????

Which is a quirky thing about So Divine, Good Time Women, and Dancing in the Light. All of those backing tracks (and lyrics w/ GTW) were recorded before the split with ABKCO. Yet, there is no publishing info either in the liner notes or online publishing search.

The split with ABKCO publishing was completed with Schoolboy Blues, which was done during the early 1970 STICKY FINGERS sessions.

When it was handed in to Klein... see, that's why whatever songs on EOMS are ABKCO Publishing, yet in late 1970 they continued to work on SF songs which included EOMS and GHS songs Tumbling Dice and Silver Train.

In 1971 they continued... and some of those are ABKCO Publishing.

When did they give ABKCO Shcoolboy Blues? And if it was later how did ABKCO determine what was recorded under contract (STICKY FINGERS) vs what wasn't (most of EOMS)?

As I recall that mess has been figured out over the years, here at iorr, and I may've been a part of it, but at this moment... maybe later this week or next month.

If Old Glory is Let It Loose, then it appears Klein only got songs that had lyrics at the time of the split. Loving Cup, All Down The Line, Sweet Virginia, plus I’m Going Down, Family, etc. all had Jagger vocals on them. Old Glory/Let It Loose was an instrumental at the time, as was Potted Shrimp, Aladdin’s Story, Dancing in the Light etc

That’s my theory anyway. Or perhaps Klein didn’t care about the instrumentals because he knew he wasn’t going to get Jagger to finish them for him so he just fought for the songs with vocals as part of the split.

So perhaps Walk With Me didn’t have vocals at the time, and the guide vocals were added after the split. I’m Going Down is pretty nonsensical and it was included on Metamorphosis, so I have to think Klein would have taken Walk With Me if it was tracked (with vocals) before the split

Wasn't the break with Klein an arrangement -we leave, you get these 4 tracks, and that's it? They likely recorded Moonlight Mile during the sessions that gave @#$%& Blues, but it is not part of the Klein deal.

Mathijs

The cutoff was near the end of the summer 1970. Songs like Sway, Bitch, and Moonlight Mile I don’t think were attempted until fall at Stargroves.

ABKCO got a bunch of songs—some of which appeared on Exile and Metamorphosis—and others like Blood Red Wine, which they registered and are still sitting on.

I think C*** Blues was recorded specifically to deliver them a new single, which was part of their deal evidently..

To my understanding Schoolboy Blues was given to Decca specifically as the last single required as part of their deal of owing Decca post-LET IT BLEED one more album, which was YA-YAS! and a single.

That's the end of the distribution part, not the publishing, since the Stones signed with Atlantic and formed RSR and all but one song on SF is published by ABKCO Music and then the 5 or however many on EOMS.

The live album recorded on the 1972 tour that was cancelled was apparently because Decca owned any UK rights to re-recordings the Stones did and the live album could only be released via Decca.

I have no factual reason to say they can but what I read about that live mentioned "at the time" in regard to the UK rights so it seems the Stones could release it now if they wanted to but Stevie Wonder made a stink about it in 1972 or whenever they put it together and Mick said the hell with it.

With Allen Klein gone and the entire catalogue distributed by UMG there must be something legal beyond anything anyone has ever read in regard as to why any unreleased studio recordings post METAMORPHOSIS have not been included with any deluxe (the GYYYO! deluxe obviously did) reissues or standalone releases.

Klein solidified the deal in steel so no one could change it? Kinda seems like it.

Quote
GasLightStreet
To my understanding Schoolboy Blues was given to Decca specifically as the last single required as part of their deal of owing Decca post-LET IT BLEED one more album, which was YA-YAS! and a single.

That's the end of the distribution part, not the publishing, since the Stones signed with Atlantic and formed RSR and all but one song on SF is published by ABKCO Music and then the 5 or however many on EOMS.

The live album recorded on the 1972 tour that was cancelled was apparently because Decca owned any UK rights to re-recordings the Stones did and the live album could only be released via Decca.

I have no factual reason to say they can but what I read about that live mentioned "at the time" in regard to the UK rights so it seems the Stones could release it now if they wanted to but Stevie Wonder made a stink about it in 1972 or whenever they put it together and Mick said the hell with it.

With Allen Klein gone and the entire catalogue distributed by UMG there must be something legal beyond anything anyone has ever read in regard as to why any unreleased studio recordings post METAMORPHOSIS have not been included with any deluxe (the GYYYO! deluxe obviously did) reissues or standalone releases.

Klein solidified the deal in steel so no one could change it? Kinda seems like it.

What’s interesting to me is some songs on Sticky Fingers like Moonlight Mile weren’t recorded until after the cutoff, which makes me think they owed Klein a full album of material as well.

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
GasLightStreet
To my understanding Schoolboy Blues was given to Decca specifically as the last single required as part of their deal of owing Decca post-LET IT BLEED one more album, which was YA-YAS! and a single.

That's the end of the distribution part, not the publishing, since the Stones signed with Atlantic and formed RSR and all but one song on SF is published by ABKCO Music and then the 5 or however many on EOMS.

The live album recorded on the 1972 tour that was cancelled was apparently because Decca owned any UK rights to re-recordings the Stones did and the live album could only be released via Decca.

I have no factual reason to say they can but what I read about that live mentioned "at the time" in regard to the UK rights so it seems the Stones could release it now if they wanted to but Stevie Wonder made a stink about it in 1972 or whenever they put it together and Mick said the hell with it.

With Allen Klein gone and the entire catalogue distributed by UMG there must be something legal beyond anything anyone has ever read in regard as to why any unreleased studio recordings post METAMORPHOSIS have not been included with any deluxe (the GYYYO! deluxe obviously did) reissues or standalone releases.

Klein solidified the deal in steel so no one could change it? Kinda seems like it.

What’s interesting to me is some songs on Sticky Fingers like Moonlight Mile weren’t recorded until after the cutoff, which makes me think they owed Klein a full album of material as well.

The cut off of what, though.

If the contract said A and B was a the live album, then A wasn't fulfilled.

The Stones continued to work on Brown Sugar during the sessions that printed Jiving Sister Fanny, I Got The Blues, You Gotta Move and several others that were never released.

Then that summer they did mostly songs that would end up on EOMS while recording CYHMK.

That fall SF and EOMS songs!

Supposedly Tumbling Dice (which we know of as being Good Time Women) being one of them.

Then SF came out and they toured and work began on EOMS.

Tumbling Dice was recorded.

It's not Good Time Women.

Rightfully so Good Time Women is an ABKCO Music song.

That's my understanding of it. I've never read anything specific as to when the Decca/London Records (ABKCO) publishing expired but given the linter notes of SF and EOMS there's a big hint: sometime in 1971.

Someone figured out, Ohhhh well, Loving Cup belongs to ABKCO so...

Whatever. I don't have the liner notes in front of me nor any pages online ready to click on, I remember ABC from having read them for so many years but I could be wrong:

Somehow there was a date established, legally, perhaps because of copyright claims, that past the record deal aspect there was songwriting still under contract, which explains the publishing (and gives an idea of when) for the 5 or whatever songs on EOMS.

Which means those songs could've ended up on SF because it implies they were finished recordings. Some of them didn't.

Mick and Keith either didn't care or weren't aware at the time of EOMS that songs recorded for SF would be ABKCO publishing.

Imagine it: they got out of the Decca deal, formed their own label and recorded 500 songs only to find out that, seeing the recorded at least 3 tunes in 1969, they're owned by Decca (ABKCO) yet alone their first RSR/Atlantic album!!!!

We don't know otherwise except for liner notes in regard to publishing. Gonna guess Klein was on top of what the Stones had done and were doing in regard to why SF is all but one ABCKO Music and EOMS the five:

Recorded under Decca contract. Regardless of turning over the master to Schoolboy Blues - that was that fulfillment, not the publishing.

It's entirely possible to think Klein made more money from Brown Sugar, at the time, than any prior single. ROLLED GOLD sold excellently.

Klein wanted more in results so he went after The Beatles. The Stones weren't at that level. Ever.

Klein wasn't stupid, just evil.

Concerning the break off point: remember that the company that pays for the sessions is the owner of the material. The summer sessions at Olympics were to be the last sessions of the Stones in that studio until 1989, except for some overdubbing sessions for L&G in late 1972. Starting in late 1970, the Stones paid themselves for their sessions, hence the smaller rooms and cheaper studio's they used for most of the 1970's.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-09-19 15:31 by Mathijs.

Quote
GasLightStreet

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
GasLightStreet
To my understanding Schoolboy Blues was given to Decca specifically as the last single required as part of their deal of owing Decca post-LET IT BLEED one more album, which was YA-YAS! and a single.

That's the end of the distribution part, not the publishing, since the Stones signed with Atlantic and formed RSR and all but one song on SF is published by ABKCO Music and then the 5 or however many on EOMS.

The live album recorded on the 1972 tour that was cancelled was apparently because Decca owned any UK rights to re-recordings the Stones did and the live album could only be released via Decca.

I have no factual reason to say they can but what I read about that live mentioned "at the time" in regard to the UK rights so it seems the Stones could release it now if they wanted to but Stevie Wonder made a stink about it in 1972 or whenever they put it together and Mick said the hell with it.

With Allen Klein gone and the entire catalogue distributed by UMG there must be something legal beyond anything anyone has ever read in regard as to why any unreleased studio recordings post METAMORPHOSIS have not been included with any deluxe (the GYYYO! deluxe obviously did) reissues or standalone releases.

Klein solidified the deal in steel so no one could change it? Kinda seems like it.

What’s interesting to me is some songs on Sticky Fingers like Moonlight Mile weren’t recorded until after the cutoff, which makes me think they owed Klein a full album of material as well.

The cut off of what, though.

If the contract said A and B was a the live album, then A wasn't fulfilled.

The Stones continued to work on Brown Sugar during the sessions that printed Jiving Sister Fanny, I Got The Blues, You Gotta Move and several others that were never released.

Then that summer they did mostly songs that would end up on EOMS while recording CYHMK.

That fall SF and EOMS songs!

Supposedly Tumbling Dice (which we know of as being Good Time Women) being one of them.

Then SF came out and they toured and work began on EOMS.

Tumbling Dice was recorded.

It's not Good Time Women.

Rightfully so Good Time Women is an ABKCO Music song.

That's my understanding of it. I've never read anything specific as to when the Decca/London Records (ABKCO) publishing expired but given the linter notes of SF and EOMS there's a big hint: sometime in 1971.

Someone figured out, Ohhhh well, Loving Cup belongs to ABKCO so...

Whatever. I don't have the liner notes in front of me nor any pages online ready to click on, I remember ABC from having read them for so many years but I could be wrong:

Somehow there was a date established, legally, perhaps because of copyright claims, that past the record deal aspect there was songwriting still under contract, which explains the publishing (and gives an idea of when) for the 5 or whatever songs on EOMS.

Which means those songs could've ended up on SF because it implies they were finished recordings. Some of them didn't.

Mick and Keith either didn't care or weren't aware at the time of EOMS that songs recorded for SF would be ABKCO publishing.

Imagine it: they got out of the Decca deal, formed their own label and recorded 500 songs only to find out that, seeing the recorded at least 3 tunes in 1969, they're owned by Decca (ABKCO) yet alone their first RSR/Atlantic album!!!!

We don't know otherwise except for liner notes in regard to publishing. Gonna guess Klein was on top of what the Stones had done and were doing in regard to why SF is all but one ABCKO Music and EOMS the five:

Recorded under Decca contract. Regardless of turning over the master to Schoolboy Blues - that was that fulfillment, not the publishing.

It's entirely possible to think Klein made more money from Brown Sugar, at the time, than any prior single. ROLLED GOLD sold excellently.

Klein wanted more in results so he went after The Beatles. The Stones weren't at that level. Ever.

Klein wasn't stupid, just evil.

Sorry, it’s really hard to follow what you wrote the way it’s formatted.

I’ll answer your question: the official split (cutoff) with Klein/Decca was August 31st 1970. Any master recorded after that, the Stones owned. While they owned the masters, anything started before then was covered by Klein’s (ABKCO) publishing deal.

There seems to be a distinction between unfinished songs with lyrics (Family, Downtown Susie, I’m Going Down etc) vs songs without lyrics (Dancing in the Light, Old Glory, Potted Shrimps etc) at the August 31st cutoff date.

Quote
TravelinMan

If Old Glory is Let It Loose, then it appears Klein only got songs that had lyrics at the time of the split. Loving Cup, All Down The Line, Sweet Virginia, plus I’m Going Down, Family, etc. all had Jagger vocals on them. Old Glory/Let It Loose was an instrumental at the time, as was Potted Shrimp, Aladdin’s Story, Dancing in the Light etc

That’s my theory anyway. Or perhaps Klein didn’t care about the instrumentals because he knew he wasn’t going to get Jagger to finish them for him so he just fought for the songs with vocals as part of the split.

So perhaps Walk With Me didn’t have vocals at the time, and the guide vocals were added after the split. I’m Going Down is pretty nonsensical and it was included on Metamorphosis, so I have to think Klein would have taken Walk With Me if it was tracked (with vocals) before the split

Never heard that theory about "Old Glory" being "Let it Loose" and Google either, where did you read that ? I first heard about that title, along with "Toss the Coin" in Martin Elliott's book in 1990. I wonder if theses titles weren't listed on that "fake" bootleg listed in "Hot Wacks" whose name escapes me right not but with stuff like "Something Brigitte Bardot" or "Panama Powder Room".

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Quote
gotdablouse

Quote
TravelinMan

If Old Glory is Let It Loose, then it appears Klein only got songs that had lyrics at the time of the split. Loving Cup, All Down The Line, Sweet Virginia, plus I’m Going Down, Family, etc. all had Jagger vocals on them. Old Glory/Let It Loose was an instrumental at the time, as was Potted Shrimp, Aladdin’s Story, Dancing in the Light etc

That’s my theory anyway. Or perhaps Klein didn’t care about the instrumentals because he knew he wasn’t going to get Jagger to finish them for him so he just fought for the songs with vocals as part of the split.

So perhaps Walk With Me didn’t have vocals at the time, and the guide vocals were added after the split. I’m Going Down is pretty nonsensical and it was included on Metamorphosis, so I have to think Klein would have taken Walk With Me if it was tracked (with vocals) before the split

Never heard that theory about "Old Glory" being "Let it Loose" and Google either, where did you read that ? I first heard about that title, along with "Toss the Coin" in Martin Elliott's book in 1990. I wonder if theses titles weren't listed on that "fake" bootleg listed in "Hot Wacks" whose name escapes me right not but with stuff like "Something Brigitte Bardot" or "Panama Powder Room".

It comes from a list of tapes (Bermondsey Tapes) brought to France; it is included in Geir Hornes excellent book.

"Let It Loose" is not on the list, but "When Old Glory Comes Storming Home" is and it was recorded April 1969 and features "Keith, Bill, Charlie, Bobby Keys, Jim Price, and Nicky Hopkins."

Essentially, it is the instrumental which became "Let It Loose" once they wrote the lyrics. Since it was an instrumental at the time of the ABKCO split, Klein couldn't get publishing.

Ok but how do we know it became LIL ? Did anyone hear that tape ?

Couldn't find much about Bearmondsey

[rockandrollogist.wordpress.com]

"The Rolling Stones’ eighth studio album, Let It Bleed, was first recorded as a demo tape. The building was leased by the Stones’ co-founder Ian Andrew Robert Stewart ‘Stu’ for five years from 1968."

and [www.genesis-publications.com]

"Our second EXILE competition has now closed. We asked the following question: 'Trevor Churchill "found" piles of tapes in the Stones' Bermondsey warehouse, took them to Olympic Studios, catalogued them and took some of them down to the Villa Nellcôte for the Stones to hear. Which Stones version of a Jimi Hendrix song is featured on those tapes?"

The correct answer was 'Red House' and congratulations are due to the winner, drawn at random today from those who submitted correct entries by the 1st August deadline: Dr Johannes Delmere, who will receive a free copy of our Ronnie Wood limited edition art book WOOD ON CANVAS. We will have another competition on the site soon"

and about Trevor Churchill
[www.theguardian.com]

" On a visit there in 1971, Trevor Churchill, then the European label manager for Rolling Stones Records, noticed a pile of tapes lurking in the corner of the room. "I thought, 'What the hell are they doing here?'" remembers Churchill. "So, I bounced them on to cassette, then took them to the south of France."

Is Trevor Churchill's catalogue available anywhere ? Is it the source for NZ's 690417A entry here [www.nzentgraf.de] maybe ? He does say "Old Glory" might be LIL...

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Quote
gotdablouse
Ok but how do we know it became LIL ? Did anyone hear that tape ?

Couldn't find much about Bearmondsey

[rockandrollogist.wordpress.com]

"The Rolling Stones’ eighth studio album, Let It Bleed, was first recorded as a demo tape. The building was leased by the Stones’ co-founder Ian Andrew Robert Stewart ‘Stu’ for five years from 1968."

and [www.genesis-publications.com]

"Our second EXILE competition has now closed. We asked the following question: 'Trevor Churchill "found" piles of tapes in the Stones' Bermondsey warehouse, took them to Olympic Studios, catalogued them and took some of them down to the Villa Nellcôte for the Stones to hear. Which Stones version of a Jimi Hendrix song is featured on those tapes?"

The correct answer was 'Red House' and congratulations are due to the winner, drawn at random today from those who submitted correct entries by the 1st August deadline: Dr Johannes Delmere, who will receive a free copy of our Ronnie Wood limited edition art book WOOD ON CANVAS. We will have another competition on the site soon"

and about Trevor Churchill
[www.theguardian.com]

" On a visit there in 1971, Trevor Churchill, then the European label manager for Rolling Stones Records, noticed a pile of tapes lurking in the corner of the room. "I thought, 'What the hell are they doing here?'" remembers Churchill. "So, I bounced them on to cassette, then took them to the south of France."

Is Trevor Churchill's catalogue available anywhere ? Is it the source for NZ's 690417A entry here [www.nzentgraf.de] maybe ? He does say "Old Glory" might be LIL...

I didn't come up with the theory, but it makes total sense by process of elimination.The bootleggers called the Let It Loose instrumental "Let It Loose", because the song was already out and they didn't know the working title.

The Bermondsey Tapes were leaked for sure. I'm guessing all 30 of the songs listed on the Bermondsey Tapes were bootlegged at some point after Exile.


Unfortunately, I believe Red House is probably Hillside Blues.

The title ‘Old Glory’ comes up in the Allen Klein arbitration documents and in the correspondence exchanged between Prince Rupert, Stones attorney Paddy Grafton-Green, and Trevor Churchill, the European label manager of Rolling Stones Records.
Among these letters, one explains that Old Glory is in fact on Exile, just listed under a different title. Another document dates the original recording to 22 April 1969 and notes a line-up of Keith, Bill, and Charlie, joined by Bobby Keys, Jim Price, and Nicky Hopkins.
Now, both those things could be untrue. But if they are true, then its a game of deduction.

Since other possible horn-driven contenders—like Loving Cup, All Down the Line, etc.—are already listed under their proper titles in the same paperwork, and Let It Loose is notably absent, the evidence points to Old Glory being an early version of that track. It's not confirmed, and you are right gotdablouse, nobody has ever said it was the same track (to my knowledge), but again, its a theory. The deduction is compelling—hence why Travelling Man writes: “If…”.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025-10-02 18:29 by RobberBride.

Makes sense, thanks for the detailed write-up !

It would be interesting for one of our "boot wizzes" to come up with a rebuilt "Bermondsey Tapes" as they've already kindly done for previous sessions.

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Quote
gotdablouse
Makes sense, thanks for the detailed write-up !

It would be interesting for one of our "boot wizzes" to come up with a rebuilt "Bermondsey Tapes" as they've already kindly done for previous sessions.

Excellent idea!

I've always thought Let It Loose instrumental was SF outtake recorded at Olympic in 1970, with vocals overdubs LA late 1971. Now, as I read these pages, I feel happy after so many years to learn about the origins of my favorite Stones tune. But one thing is bugging me : why ".. Old Glory..." from April 1969 has Bobby & Jim Price listed as musicians on the backing track?

Cheers, MrD

Quote
MisterDee
I've always thought Let It Loose instrumental was SF outtake recorded at Olympic in 1970, with vocals overdubs LA late 1971. Now, as I read these pages, I feel happy after so many years to learn about the origins of my favorite Stones tune. But one thing is bugging me : why ".. Old Glory..." from April 1969 has Bobby & Jim Price listed as musicians on the backing track?

Cheers, MrD

Were they in the UK with Delaney and Bonnie?

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
MisterDee
I've always thought Let It Loose instrumental was SF outtake recorded at Olympic in 1970, with vocals overdubs LA late 1971. Now, as I read these pages, I feel happy after so many years to learn about the origins of my favorite Stones tune. But one thing is bugging me : why ".. Old Glory..." from April 1969 has Bobby & Jim Price listed as musicians on the backing track?

Cheers, MrD

Were they in the UK with Delaney and Bonnie?

He was, but not before December 1969. I really doubt he did a session with the Stones so early, in 1969. If I recall he didn't join Bobby Keys with the Stones earlier than mid-1970, when they also lived together.

Keys jammed with the Stones one night in May 1969, yielding Hillside Blues, but his sax solo on Live with Me was recorded at Sunset in October.

I really doubt Price and Keys played together on a Stones track before mid-1970.

Mathijs

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
MisterDee
I've always thought Let It Loose instrumental was SF outtake recorded at Olympic in 1970, with vocals overdubs LA late 1971. Now, as I read these pages, I feel happy after so many years to learn about the origins of my favorite Stones tune. But one thing is bugging me : why ".. Old Glory..." from April 1969 has Bobby & Jim Price listed as musicians on the backing track?

Cheers, MrD

Were they in the UK with Delaney and Bonnie?

He was, but not before December 1969. I really doubt he did a session with the Stones so early, in 1969. If I recall he didn't join Bobby Keys with the Stones earlier than mid-1970, when they also lived together.

Keys jammed with the Stones one night in May 1969, yielding Hillside Blues, but his sax solo on Live with Me was recorded at Sunset in October.

I really doubt Price and Keys played together on a Stones track before mid-1970.

Mathijs

Why was Bobby Keys in LA in 1969?

I think Hillside Blues could actually be "Red House" and was recorded in late 1970.

Price and Keys may have overdubbed their parts on Let It Loose before France, but after the April '69 date, as they are listed on the document Churchill put together in Sept 1971. Keys is also on Aladdin's Story and I'm Going Down from summer 1970.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025-10-03 17:10 by TravelinMan.

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
TravelinMan

Quote
MisterDee
I've always thought Let It Loose instrumental was SF outtake recorded at Olympic in 1970, with vocals overdubs LA late 1971. Now, as I read these pages, I feel happy after so many years to learn about the origins of my favorite Stones tune. But one thing is bugging me : why ".. Old Glory..." from April 1969 has Bobby & Jim Price listed as musicians on the backing track?

Cheers, MrD

Were they in the UK with Delaney and Bonnie?

He was, but not before December 1969. I really doubt he did a session with the Stones so early, in 1969. If I recall he didn't join Bobby Keys with the Stones earlier than mid-1970, when they also lived together.

Keys jammed with the Stones one night in May 1969, yielding Hillside Blues, but his sax solo on Live with Me was recorded at Sunset in October.

I really doubt Price and Keys played together on a Stones track before mid-1970.

Mathijs

Why was Bobby Keys in LA in 1969?

I think Hillside Blues could actually be "Red House" and was recorded in late 1970.

Price and Keys may have overdubbed their parts on Let It Loose before France, but after the April '69 date, as they are listed on the document Churchill put together in Sept 1971. Keys is also on Aladdin's Story and I'm Going Down from summer 1970.

Keys was playing the Los Angeles area with Delaney & Bonnie in October 1969.

I agree about Hillside Blues -this is much more likely recorded during the 1970 sessions at Olympic. So, I think neither Keys nor Price did a Stones session in the UK before 1970.

Mathijs