Here is an interesting dive into Charlie's work on Beggar's Banquet. It's cited in the DEEP dive about Charlie's tempo analysis in another post, but thought it deserved it's own post. I tried to get the PDF download, but it wouldn't work for me. If anyone else has success with it, it would be easier to read.

The Drummer's So Shattered

Thank you! That was a great read.

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shawnriffhard1
Here is an interesting dive into Charlie's work on Beggar's Banquet. It's cited in the DEEP dive about Charlie's tempo analysis in another post, but thought it deserved it's own post. I tried to get the PDF download, but it wouldn't work for me. If anyone else has success with it, it would be easier to read.

The Drummer's So Shattered

Interesting.

My (professor) son tells me that academia.edu is an organisation that collects academic papers to publish them (my precis of a long description). Academia is NOT an accredited university as far as I know. They are, as it were, the postman.

It's not at all clear to me if the article was originally in another academic publication. If so, what was it?

Similarly articles in the all reputable journals are refereed (usually) by two experts in the subject. Was this article refereed?

Captain Corella



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-06-22 14:51 by CaptainCorella.

Charlie Watts - Sympathy for the Devil (Drums Only)

video: [youtu.be]

Interesting read, save the race related speculations which: I truly do not understand what the author meant to say.

C

The most interesting part for me is the confirmation that Sympathy for the Devil is indeed not a Brazilian samba (although everyone keeps saying it), but a Cuban mambo rhythm. "Watts plays a variation of the standard mambo beat..." and Rocky Dijon plays a mambo congas groove. Even if Stones tried to play a samba, it would quickly turn into something more similar of an Afro-Cuban groove. Which makes a lot of sense, since mambo influenced both jazz and rockabilly. Charlie, Keith etc. had listened to and played variations of this rhythm many times.

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The Worst.
The most interesting part for me is the confirmation that Sympathy for the Devil is indeed not a Brazilian samba (although everyone keeps saying it), but a Cuban mambo rhythm. "Watts plays a variation of the standard mambo beat..." and Rocky Dijon plays a mambo congas groove. Even if Stones tried to play a samba, it would quickly turn into something more similar of an Afro-Cuban groove. Which makes a lot of sense, since mambo influenced both jazz and rockabilly. Charlie, Keith etc. had listened to and played variations of this rhythm many times.

As I see it, Jagger in 1968 had developed some kind of interest for Brazil (he visited the place a couple of times that year), so it is likely that he had been exposed also to their music and that that music could have been a point of reference when they rearranged the song. That said, I would be surprised if the Stones or Rocky himself at the time could play a proper samba. Mick might have asked some sort of danceable percussion, Rocky played some sort of ghanese rhythm, they called it the "samba" version and that was that.

C



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-06-23 19:21 by liddas.

Jigsaw Puzzle

And the drummer, he's so shattered
Trying to keep on time

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CaptainCorella
My (professor) son tells me that academia.edu is an organisation that collects academic papers to publish them (my precis of a long description). Academia is NOT an accredited university as far as I know. They are, as it were, the postman.

It's not at all clear to me if the article was originally in another academic publication. If so, what was it?

Similarly articles in the all reputable journals are refereed (usually) by two experts in the subject. Was this article refereed?

Academia.edu is a site where scholars/researchers can upload their papers, published (if they dare) or unpublished, much like Researchgate.net.

The article in question is chapter 2 in the following book (edited volume, i.e. chapters by different authors):

Russell Reising (editor), Beggars Banquet and the Rolling Stones' Rock and Roll Revolution, ‘They Call My Name Disturbance'. London: Routledge, 2020.

Here's a link, with table of contents and abstracts:
[www.taylorfrancis.com]

And another link, with a preview:
[www.routledge.com]

Edited volumes usually undergo several rounds of peer review, it mostly takes years until such a book finally sees the light of day. Usually such volumes result from a conference (sort of proceedings), or authors are invited to submit a paper, or a mixture of the two. I can't access the book, so no idea as to how this one came about (usually, the editor tells you this in the foreword).

Routledge is an academic publisher, so you can bet yer butt there were minimally two rounds of peer review.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-06-25 23:50 by doitywoik.

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BitchKeepsBitchin
Jigsaw Puzzle

And the drummer, he's so shattered
Trying to keep on time

Oh my.

And the drummer he's so shattered trying to keep up time.

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GasLightStreet

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BitchKeepsBitchin
Jigsaw Puzzle

And the drummer, he's so shattered
Trying to keep on time

Oh my.

And the drummer he's so shattered trying to keep up time.

Gassy, I know we’ve had our differences in the past but I have to applaud you for giving the bitch a public spanking over the word ‘on.’ It had to be done. Nice work, man.

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Swayed1967

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GasLightStreet

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BitchKeepsBitchin
Jigsaw Puzzle

And the drummer, he's so shattered
Trying to keep on time

Oh my.

And the drummer he's so shattered trying to keep up time.

Gassy, I know we’ve had our differences in the past but I have to applaud you for giving the bitch a public spanking over the word ‘on.’ It had to be done. Nice work, man.

Details matter.