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Mathijs

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Eleanor Rigby

Would love to see the DA show up one day...I'm guessing serial numbers are unknown?

It's even unknown if Keith's DA had a serial number. The first 20 or so guitars were prototype models with a white resin pickup fitted. These guitars were given to musicians and also used for display at guitar fares, and most likely did not have a serial number. When the guitars went in production the pickup material was changed to a brown resin, and serial numbers were added on the back of the neck.

Mathijs

This article explains further the serial numbers and the prototypes..

[www.daregistry.org]

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Roadster32

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Mathijs

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Roadster32

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DandelionPowderman
Macabre 2 by Zemaitis.

This one is definitely not made by Tony Zemaitis.

Tony made only two Macabre.
One owned by Keith, which got stolen or disapeared somehow and a second one with the exact same specs which is now in the hands of a private owner.

Tony Zemaitis made at least three Macabre's: Keith's original, one exacxt copy for Zemaitis collector Kurt Scheidegger in 1981, and a 1990's six-string version, also for Kurt Scheidegger.

The 1981 copy has sold for 80K US$ some years ago. Noteworthy is that it isn't a 100% copy of the original as the body is about a centimeter thicker and has a more shallow taper of the front horn.

After Zemaitis death he sold his drawings to the Japanese Zemaitis company, and they made more copies of the orginal, but they do vary a bit from the original.

Mathijs

I was just refering to the 5 String 1981 one.

I never said Tony made it, though. However, it was made by the Japanese Zemaitis company.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-02-25 15:36 by DandelionPowderman.

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Eleanor Rigby

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Mathijs

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Eleanor Rigby

Would love to see the DA show up one day...I'm guessing serial numbers are unknown?

It's even unknown if Keith's DA had a serial number. The first 20 or so guitars were prototype models with a white resin pickup fitted. These guitars were given to musicians and also used for display at guitar fares, and most likely did not have a serial number. When the guitars went in production the pickup material was changed to a brown resin, and serial numbers were added on the back of the neck.

Mathijs

This article explains further the serial numbers and the prototypes..

[www.daregistry.org]

Better go to: [www.danarmstrong.org].

Known so far is that they made two prototype guitars in New York, and then a dozen or so prototype guitars that were based of the these first two guitars at the Ampeg plant in Linden. These prototypes were real prototypes, with different slot sizing for the pickup, different routing for the electronics, different screws, different pickup material etc. These prototypes likely did not not have serial numbers, but to date no protoype is known to exist anymore.

Then they made a number of guitars that were the same as the production run instruments, that were used for promotion and sent to important shops. It is not known how many instruments were made, but it likely is around 20 instruments. These instruments had a serial number as they were for commercial purpose. Then they started the production run with the first serial number 101.

Keith's DA is a prototype, but it has most of the appointments the later production run instruments have. Main difference is the different pickup with a somewhat different size, and slotted screws for the bridge instead of Phillips type.

So does Keith's DA had a serial number? Possibly, but nobody knows for sure.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-02-25 19:19 by Mathijs.

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan
What happened to to the Ya Ya's SG? Might have even been called a Les Paul at the time.

The story is vague -it was used in the summer of 1971 in Nellcote, and dissapeared after the robbery. But according to Mick Taylor he gave it to his brother in law Robin Millar. But there are no pictures of Millar owning it, even though he showed his studio and guitars during various interviews. But then Taylor also sold some instruments while in the Stones and after for various reasons.

Mathijs

Thanks a lot to our Geir Hornes who contacted Robin Millar -The SG indeed was given as a present to Mr. Millar, but he does not own it anymore.

Mathijs

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bv
There are many threads on IORR related to Keith and his guitars.
Using search like the one below on google would give some of those threads:

guitar keith site:iorr.org

If someone could e-mail me, or pst here, the 5-10 most important threads in a list by URL, then I could merge these ino one main thread, and add it to the "Forum links of interest".

There is the Ratbag Boogie thread list that our deeply missed member "with sssoul" created.
[iorr.org]

Haha, Mathijs, you're a fountain of guitar knowledge.

So the SG is still "missing"...

Speaking of guitars: AXS TV broadcasts a show Gibson TV, The Collection. A very knowledgeable guitar guy interviews musicians about their guitar collections; Slash, Frampton, etc. Fun watching the love they have for their instruments and hearing their stories. The show cries out for Keith.

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Eleanor Rigby
I believe the MT 1958 LP he played with 1969-72 is at the Hard Rock Cafe
Have we ever located Keith's Dan Armstrong 1969 guitar? Or is that forever gone ...?

It's funny how Taylor, in particular doesn't give. F...

Here are the good old days.

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Eleanor Rigby
So the SG is still "missing"...

Thanks again to our Geir Hornes, and thanks for Robin Millar to reply -Taylor's Gibson SG was mended by a luthier who installed (a new) truss rod to improve tunning stability. The guitar was so neck heavy after the repair it was unplayable. Millar does not remember anymore what happened to the guitar of where it went.

Mathijs

Many SGs are neck heavy, especially with Grover type tuners, but a Bigsby sometimes helps the balance a bit.

Never heard of fitting a beefier truss rod to address that whiplash long neck issue. [where some of those shallow blade SG necks can behave a bit like a huge whammy bar!]

Is that something you've come across before Mathijs ?

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Spud
Many SGs are neck heavy, especially with Grover type tuners, but a Bigsby sometimes helps the balance a bit.

Never heard of fitting a beefier truss rod to address that whiplash long neck issue. [where some of those shallow blade SG necks can behave a bit like a huge whammy bar!]

Is that something you've come across before Mathijs ?

I heard of many stories where people in the 1970's considered themselves 'luthiers' and destroyed guitars by the work they did on them. Even Ted Newman Jones, Keith's guitar tech throughout the 1970's, was an amateur at best who did quite a lot of botched up work on Keith's guitars.

I can understand a thinner neck profile and a bigsby would make the guitar have tuning issues, but you normally fix that by cutting the nut properly and introducing some pencil graphite. Roller bridges and nuts didn't come until the 1980's.

Mathijs

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Mathijs
Millar does not remember anymore what happened to the guitar of where it went.

Mathijs

Which hardly seems surprising.

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Mathijs
[... Even Ted Newman Jones, Keith's guitar tech throughout the 1970's, was an amateur at best who did quite a lot of botched up work on Keith's guitars.

I can understand a thinner neck profile and a bigsby would make the guitar have tuning issues, but you normally fix that by cutting the nut properly and introducing some pencil graphite. Roller bridges and nuts didn't come until the 1980's.

Mathijs

I can never understand his placement of the neck 'bucker on the the Tele's he modded.
It's located so close to the end of the neck that there can be little or no wood left at the end of the neck pocket...putting a lot of faith in those four screws to keep everything secure in the heat of battle.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-03-03 13:22 by Spud.

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Mathijs

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Eleanor Rigby
So the SG is still "missing"...

Thanks again to our Geir Hornes, and thanks for Robin Millar to reply -Taylor's Gibson SG was mended by a luthier who installed (a new) truss rod to improve tunning stability. The guitar was so neck heavy after the repair it was unplayable. Millar does not remember anymore what happened to the guitar of where it went.

Mathijs

Thanks mate...great info

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Spud

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Mathijs
[... Even Ted Newman Jones, Keith's guitar tech throughout the 1970's, was an amateur at best who did quite a lot of botched up work on Keith's guitars.

I can understand a thinner neck profile and a bigsby would make the guitar have tuning issues, but you normally fix that by cutting the nut properly and introducing some pencil graphite. Roller bridges and nuts didn't come until the 1980's.

Mathijs

I can never understand his placement of the neck 'bucker on the the Tele's he modded.
It's located so close to the end of the neck that there can be little or no wood left at the end of the neck pocket...putting a lot of faith in those four screws to keep everything secure in the heat of battle.

There's just enough wood left between neck and the body routing to keep the neck in place. And indeed just about all that keeps the neck to the body in a Telecaster design are the 4 screws. Newman Jones did the routing with a chissel, and cut the pickguard quite roughly. NOt something a trained luthier would do...

Mathijs

Quite so...and when we build our own "Micawber" or "Malcolm" inspired copies...the instinct to do a neater job is very hard to resist


I can never bodge it on purpose

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Spud
Quite so...and when we build our own "Micawber" or "Malcolm" inspired copies...the instinct to do a neater job is very hard to resist


I can never bodge it on purpose

In my Tele the humbucker is a tad more removed from the neck indeed. I don't find it a fabulous sound by the way, too dark and muddy. Still need to fix it by installing a 600K pot.

Mathijs

That's why I once asked you if you knew how Keith's bucker loaded Teles were wired.

The neck bucker with standard 250K Tele pots is too dark to be really useful on it's own...but it does pair with the bridge pup for a beautifully filled out but airy tone in the mixed position.

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Spud
That's why I once asked you if you knew how Keith's bucker loaded Teles were wired.

The neck bucker with standard 250K Tele pots is too dark to be really useful on it's own...but it does pair with the bridge pup for a beautifully filled out but airy tone in the mixed position.

In the 1970's when Keith still used Ampeg SVT's the humbucker came in handy to drive the amp into overdrive a bit more. I tried it a couple of times with an old SVT and it sounded fabulous, with lots of warmth bit still a lot of treble. With the later Boogie's he stopped using the neck humbucker for just about eveything, and when he used it it was in the middle position for Tumbling Dice and YCAGWYW.

Nowadays with the Fender Tweeds, when he selects the neck pickup, for example when soloing during Tumbling Dice, I find the sound way too dark and muddy.

I still haven't found the true solution for the issue in my guitars. The best solution so far is to have two volume pots, 500K and 250K, and no tone pot. It's nice to be able to blend in the humbucker in the middle position. Installing a 500K resistance in the lead of the bridge pickup to a 500K pot does make each individual pickup sound good, but now the middle position is not usable.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-03-04 14:04 by Mathijs.

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Mathijs



In the 1970's when Keith still used Ampeg SVT's the humbucker came in handy to drive the amp into overdrive a bit more. I tried it a couple of times with an old SVT and it sounded fabulous, with lots of warmth bit still a lot of treble. With the later Boogie's he stopped using the neck humbucker for just about eveything, and when he used it it was in the middle position for Tumbling Dice and YCAGWYW.

Nowadays with the Fender Tweeds, when he selects the neck pickup, for example when soloing during Tumbling Dice, I find the sound way too dark and muddy.

I still haven't found the true solution for the issue in my guitars. The best solution so far is to have two volume pots, 500K and 250K, and no tone pot. It's nice to be able to blend in the humbucker in the middle position. Installing a 500K resistance in the lead of the bridge pickup to a 500K pot does make each individual pickup sound good, but now the middle position is not usable.

Mathijs

Maybe a Kemper Profiler is something for you. Amazing copies I have heard. Not for purists of course.

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TheflyingDutchman

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Mathijs



In the 1970's when Keith still used Ampeg SVT's the humbucker came in handy to drive the amp into overdrive a bit more. I tried it a couple of times with an old SVT and it sounded fabulous, with lots of warmth bit still a lot of treble. With the later Boogie's he stopped using the neck humbucker for just about eveything, and when he used it it was in the middle position for Tumbling Dice and YCAGWYW.

Nowadays with the Fender Tweeds, when he selects the neck pickup, for example when soloing during Tumbling Dice, I find the sound way too dark and muddy.

I still haven't found the true solution for the issue in my guitars. The best solution so far is to have two volume pots, 500K and 250K, and no tone pot. It's nice to be able to blend in the humbucker in the middle position. Installing a 500K resistance in the lead of the bridge pickup to a 500K pot does make each individual pickup sound good, but now the middle position is not usable.

Mathijs

Maybe a Kemper Profiler is something for you. Amazing copies I have heard. Not for purists of course.

To date I haven't played anything digital that I really liked. They always impress for the first hour, and than the irritation kicks in. The main thing they haven't solved yet is when you bend two strings, or play double stops. For whatever reason it sounds out of tune.

That said, the new Fender Tonemaster Bassman amp gets rave reviews all over the net, so we have to try it soon.

Mathijs

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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TheflyingDutchman

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Mathijs



In the 1970's when Keith still used Ampeg SVT's the humbucker came in handy to drive the amp into overdrive a bit more. I tried it a couple of times with an old SVT and it sounded fabulous, with lots of warmth bit still a lot of treble. With the later Boogie's he stopped using the neck humbucker for just about eveything, and when he used it it was in the middle position for Tumbling Dice and YCAGWYW.

Nowadays with the Fender Tweeds, when he selects the neck pickup, for example when soloing during Tumbling Dice, I find the sound way too dark and muddy.

I still haven't found the true solution for the issue in my guitars. The best solution so far is to have two volume pots, 500K and 250K, and no tone pot. It's nice to be able to blend in the humbucker in the middle position. Installing a 500K resistance in the lead of the bridge pickup to a 500K pot does make each individual pickup sound good, but now the middle position is not usable.

Mathijs

Maybe a Kemper Profiler is something for you. Amazing copies I have heard. Not for purists of course.

To date I haven't played anything digital that I really liked. They always impress for the first hour, and than the irritation kicks in. The main thing they haven't solved yet is when you bend two strings, or play double stops. For whatever reason it sounds out of tune.

Mathijs

I haven't faced these issues with the Kemper, but I think in the end nothing beats the original sound of Tube Amps. It will take another 10 years.

I think modelling has reached the point of sounding very convincing...but it still doesn't feel quite right when you are the player.

I've always found that plugging a good guitar into a good simple tube amp is almost like playing an acoustic in terms of the sound responding to your fingers.

The more processing of any kind you put on the middle, the less direct that feel.

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Spud
I think modelling has reached the point of sounding very convincing...but it still doesn't feel quite right when you are the player.

I've always found that plugging a good guitar into a good simple tube amp is almost like playing an acoustic in terms of the sound responding to your fingers.

The more processing of any kind you put on the middle, the less direct that feel.

It also depends on the kind of style or gigs you are doing, and the weight of the original amp you still use. No way I would carry an old VT22 or hardwood cabinet MK1 anymore.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-03-04 15:50 by TheflyingDutchman.

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TheflyingDutchman

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Spud
I think modelling has reached the point of sounding very convincing...but it still doesn't feel quite right when you are the player.

I've always found that plugging a good guitar into a good simple tube amp is almost like playing an acoustic in terms of the sound responding to your fingers.

The more processing of any kind you put on the middle, the less direct that feel.

It also depends on the kind of style or gigs you are doing, and the weight of the original amp you still use. No way I would carry an old VT22 or hardwood cabinet MK1 anymore.

The old band got together to play a fabulous gig at my wedding half a year ago, and that’s exactly what we used: a 1972/1973 Ampeg VT-40 and a February 1977 Boogie MK1…

There really isn’t anything that can beat tubes heating up during a gig, making you twice as loud after half an hour. But it’s just a glorious noise.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

There really isn’t anything that can beat tubes heating up during a gig, making you twice as loud after half an hour. But it’s just a glorious noise.
Mathijs

...Which just about sums up the Rolling Stones


I can get acceptably close to Keith's latter day live sound with my modest Blues Deluxe Reissue [with a judicious choice of tubes and a heavy magnet Celestion onboard]...

..but I've never had an amp that can really approach the roar of a pushed Ampeg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-03-06 09:48 by Spud.

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Spud

..but I've never had an amp that can really approach the roar of a pushed Ampeg

I sold my Ampeg Vt-22 years ago. I regret it .