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Barkerboy2
Not sure if I am in a minority, but I kinda miss the old-school live albums. I would really like a No Security/Live Licks style compilation live album from the HAckney Diamonds tour.

Yeah, me, too; preferably, warts-and-all, with no overdubs and editing.

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Barkerboy2
Not sure if I am in a minority, but I kinda miss the old-school live albums. I would really like a No Security/Live Licks style compilation live album from the HAckney Diamonds tour.

Absolutely. But please no guest appearances. ZERO!
Honk was just too much...

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Nellcote1971

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Barkerboy2
Not sure if I am in a minority, but I kinda miss the old-school live albums. I would really like a No Security/Live Licks style compilation live album from the HAckney Diamonds tour.

Absolutely. But please no guest appearances. ZERO!
Honk was just too much...

I thought this was great

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Big Al

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Barkerboy2
Not sure if I am in a minority, but I kinda miss the old-school live albums. I would really like a No Security/Live Licks style compilation live album from the HAckney Diamonds tour.

Yeah, me, too; preferably, warts-and-all, with no overdubs and editing.

i'm with you on a live release of a single complete show that should be warts and all

it should be document of the show as it was

however i could handle and expect overdubs on a live album comprised of several shows

not racket level awful sounding lazy lifting the guitars tracks right off the studio versions overdubs

but the more subtle tasteful stuff they did on there earlier live albums like ya-ya's love you live etc.

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ProfessorWolf

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Big Al

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Barkerboy2
Not sure if I am in a minority, but I kinda miss the old-school live albums. I would really like a No Security/Live Licks style compilation live album from the HAckney Diamonds tour.

Yeah, me, too; preferably, warts-and-all, with no overdubs and editing.

i'm with you on a live release of a single complete show that should be warts and all

it should be document of the show as it was

however i could handle and expect overdubs on a live album comprised of several shows

not racket level awful sounding lazy lifting the guitars tracks right off the studio versions overdubs

but the more subtle tasteful stuff they did on there earlier live albums like ya-ya's love you live etc.

Well, the overdubbing on Ya-Ya's is done tastefully; it's a near-flawless record. Minor tinkering, here and there, can be acceptable; correcting a botched intro, for example; countless occasions with Keith! Like you and I, I would hope, most here, agree that the 'Racket' overdubs are beyond lazy. It's not only Bite My Head Off, either: Angry has some weird edits, too.

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Big Al

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ProfessorWolf

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Big Al

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Barkerboy2
Not sure if I am in a minority, but I kinda miss the old-school live albums. I would really like a No Security/Live Licks style compilation live album from the HAckney Diamonds tour.

Yeah, me, too; preferably, warts-and-all, with no overdubs and editing.

i'm with you on a live release of a single complete show that should be warts and all

it should be document of the show as it was

however i could handle and expect overdubs on a live album comprised of several shows

not racket level awful sounding lazy lifting the guitars tracks right off the studio versions overdubs

but the more subtle tasteful stuff they did on there earlier live albums like ya-ya's love you live etc.

Well, the overdubbing on Ya-Ya's is done tastefully; it's a near-flawless record. Minor tinkering, here and there, can be acceptable; correcting a botched intro, for example; countless occasions with Keith! Like you and I, I would hope, most here, agree that the 'Racket' overdubs are beyond lazy. It's not only Bite My Head Off, either: Angry has some weird edits, too.

completely agree

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Barkerboy2
Not sure if I am in a minority, but I kinda miss the old-school live albums. I would really like a No Security/Live Licks style compilation live album from the HAckney Diamonds tour.

I need to say that at the time of its release to me LIVE LICKS didn't feel like 'old-school live album'. First of all, it entered pretty late to the party. After the big - and rightful - hype of FOUR FLICKS it didn't feel relevant as a souvenir of the tour. To use Skippy's term - it didn't feel that 'fresh' any longer. Secondly, and more importantly, it sounded pretty half-thought. The concept of it was FLASHPOINT and NO SECURITY combined: one disc of familiar hits, the other more obscure stuff. I guess a lukewarm and lazy compromise: something for anyone (but as it turned out, no one was that excited). Add there some (infamous) edits and some other 'artistic decisions' the album contains, it sounds altogether pretty half-baked. Odd compromises here and there. No Stones involved any longer in over-dubbing or otherwise fingering it (not that it would have made the album better or worse, but it was a sign that they didn't care).

Taking all that together, it sounds like The Stones saying: we don't give a shit. There is no artistic statement from their side. Just a contract filler - 'let the record use the recorded material from the tour and release as they please - but don't bother us!' (And, honestly, it doesn't sound like the record company was that excited either, but just released the product out of necessity - to get some money money from their precious clients).

So I feel like that there is something lacking in LIVE LICKS that it does not quite classify as an 'old-school live album' any longer (although technically it still does). You know, as YA-YA's, LOVE YOU LIVE, STILL LIFE, FLASHPOINT, STRIPPED and still NO SECURITY did: saying or proving something, as an artistic move or statement in their career, adding something to their catalog, making a difference. That was something I have learned to think live albums being once like - that they had an artistic function, something signed by the artists. They telling something. In a way I think LIVE LICKS brings us back to the days of GOT LIVE IF YOU WANT IT!. It is just collecting quickly some extra money by cheap tricks. Get the money and run (before anyone notices anything).

That doesn't mean it isn't good as whatever it is. Like GOT LIVE! is, me thinks.

- Doxa



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2025-03-27 13:35 by Doxa.

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Doxa

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Barkerboy2
Not sure if I am in a minority, but I kinda miss the old-school live albums. I would really like a No Security/Live Licks style compilation live album from the HAckney Diamonds tour.

I need to say that at the time of its release to me LIVE LICKS didn't feel like 'old-school live album'. First of all, it entered pretty late to the party. After the big - and rightful - hype of FOUR FLICKS it didn't feel relevant as a souvenir of the tour. To use Skippy's term - it didn't feel that 'fresh' any longer. Secondly, and more importantly, it sounded pretty half-thought. The concept of it was FLASHPOINT and NO SECURITY combined: one disc of familiar hits, the other more obscure stuff. I guess a lukewarm and lazy compromise: something for anyone (but as it turned out, no one was that excited). Add there some (infamous) edits and some other 'artistic decisions' the album contains, it sounds altogether pretty half-baked. Odd compromises here and there. No Stones involved any longer in over-dubbing or otherwise fingering it (not that it would have made the album better or worse, but it was a sign that they didn't care).

Taking all that together, it sounds like The Stones saying: we don't give a shit. There is no artistic statement from their side. Just a contract filler - 'let the record use the recorded material from the tour and release as they please - but don't bother us!' (And, honestly, it doesn't sound like the record company was that excited either, but just released the product out of necessity - to get some money money from their precious clients).

So I feel like that there is something lacking in LIVE LICKS that it does not quite classify as an 'old-school live album' any longer (although technically it still does). You know, as YA-YA's, LOVE YOU LIVE, STILL LIFE, FLASHPOINT, STRIPPED and still NO SECURITY did: saying or proving something, as an artistic move or statement in their career, adding something to their catalog, making a difference. That was something I have learned to think live albums being once like - that they had an artistic function, something signed by the artists. They telling something. In a way I think LIVE LICKS brings us back to the days of GOT LIVE IF YOU WANT IT!. It is just collecting quickly some extra money by cheap tricks. Get the money and run (before anyone notices anything).

That doesn't mean it isn't good as whatever it is. Like GOT LIVE! is, me thinks.

- Doxa

But Doxa, surely the main reason I and lotsa others didn't buy it and the band and record company hardly could be arsed was the fact that, as you mentioned, most of it was already released on the amazing Four Flicks set?

I remember reading in my local newspaper at the time there were other versions considered for the CD but at the end they settled with what was already released on DVD.

Mind you, the cover was GREAT....

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MadMax

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Doxa

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Barkerboy2
Not sure if I am in a minority, but I kinda miss the old-school live albums. I would really like a No Security/Live Licks style compilation live album from the HAckney Diamonds tour.

I need to say that at the time of its release to me LIVE LICKS didn't feel like 'old-school live album'. First of all, it entered pretty late to the party. After the big - and rightful - hype of FOUR FLICKS it didn't feel relevant as a souvenir of the tour. To use Skippy's term - it didn't feel that 'fresh' any longer. Secondly, and more importantly, it sounded pretty half-thought. The concept of it was FLASHPOINT and NO SECURITY combined: one disc of familiar hits, the other more obscure stuff. I guess a lukewarm and lazy compromise: something for anyone (but as it turned out, no one was that excited). Add there some (infamous) edits and some other 'artistic decisions' the album contains, it sounds altogether pretty half-baked. Odd compromises here and there. No Stones involved any longer in over-dubbing or otherwise fingering it (not that it would have made the album better or worse, but it was a sign that they didn't care).

Taking all that together, it sounds like The Stones saying: we don't give a shit. There is no artistic statement from their side. Just a contract filler - 'let the record use the recorded material from the tour and release as they please - but don't bother us!' (And, honestly, it doesn't sound like the record company was that excited either, but just released the product out of necessity - to get some money money from their precious clients).

So I feel like that there is something lacking in LIVE LICKS that it does not quite classify as an 'old-school live album' any longer (although technically it still does). You know, as YA-YA's, LOVE YOU LIVE, STILL LIFE, FLASHPOINT, STRIPPED and still NO SECURITY did: saying or proving something, as an artistic move or statement in their career, adding something to their catalog, making a difference. That was something I have learned to think live albums being once like - that they had an artistic function, something signed by the artists. They telling something. In a way I think LIVE LICKS brings us back to the days of GOT LIVE IF YOU WANT IT!. It is just collecting quickly some extra money by cheap tricks. Get the money and run (before anyone notices anything).

That doesn't mean it isn't good as whatever it is. Like GOT LIVE! is, me thinks.

- Doxa

But Doxa, surely the main reason I and lotsa others didn't buy it and the band and record company hardly could be arsed was the fact that, as you mentioned, most of it was already released on the amazing Four Flicks set?

I remember reading in my local newspaper at the time there were other versions considered for the CD but at the end they settled with what was already released on DVD.

Mind you, the cover was GREAT....

Isn't the 'Live Licks' version of Can't You Hear Me Knocking an 'excusive', though? In other words, it doesn't feature on FF, or other releases. I can't remember what show it's from, though.

The time of "classic" live records is over IMO. Before digital times, there was little opportunity to get live material from current tours. Hence, live recordings made sense as people wanted to hear the band and their sound, new songs live; let's say to get an impression of how the tour was. Today, there are several recordings of any show, easily accessible on YT or other platforms. There's no need for another live record ... except for collectors and old school fans.

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Big Al

Isn't the 'Live Licks' version of Can't You Hear Me Knocking an 'exclusive', though?

CYHMK (11m:02s) is also on the 'Four Flicks' DVD (Disc2, Madison Square Garden) - [en.Wikipedia.org], [Discogs.com] . The version on 'Live Licks' (10m:02s) is from Los Angeles (Wiltern Theatre), 4-Nov-2002 - [NZentgraf.de] , [en.Wikipedia.org] , [Discogs.com] .



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025-03-27 17:25 by Irix.

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Irix

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Big Al

Isn't the 'Live Licks' version of Can't You Hear Me Knocking an 'exclusive', though?

CYHMK is also on the 'Four Flicks' DVD (Disc2, Madison Square Garden) - [en.Wikipedia.org] . Not sure, if it's the same version as on 'Live Licks' (10m:02s) - [en.Wikipedia.org] .

The CYHMK on Live Licks is from the Wiltern. BOB, too.

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DandelionPowderman

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Irix

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Big Al

Isn't the 'Live Licks' version of Can't You Hear Me Knocking an 'exclusive', though?

CYHMK is also on the 'Four Flicks' DVD (Disc2, Madison Square Garden) - [en.Wikipedia.org] . Not sure, if it's the same version as on 'Live Licks' (10m:02s) - [en.Wikipedia.org] .

The CYHMK on Live Licks is from the Wiltern. BOB, too.

Thank you!

You know, I had a feeling it was the Wiltern performance.

I was sorta right: it's subsequently been released, but was available nowhere else at the time.

Regarding LIVE LICKS, the better performance of Street Fighting Man was the PPV from Madison Square Garden: it didn't need editing. So why didn't that make the album!!!!???

The mix is great. Brown Sugar is, fortunately, short. Other than that, disc one is pointless.

Love Keith's 2 on disc two. Monkey Man is great.

CYHMK is just as pointless as Rocks Off.

At least parts of LOVE YOU LIVE are laughable, where as LIVE LICKS is a meandering yawn of a live release. Is it their worst? Eh, LIGHT THE FUSE is probably their worst. For a rehearsed band they are completely lost!!! But LIVE LICKS has other people playing guitar parts... was it Pierre?

Barely remembering specifics, I Googled and, ha ha... I'll just provide the link but the RS review is ridiculous:

[iorr.org]

Of course, as with anything that's got something great there's something awful (LTF). Fortunately they've been better since the BANG tour but even the video set was a horrible imitation of FOUR FLICKS.

I listened to RACKET a couple of times but didn't pay attention - what's this about taking the studio guitar tracks!!?? Having watched the live video the live performance was fine. What is their deal!!!???

Back to LIVE LICKS - this is an eye opener. After reading this, for the first time in years, the DUH question about an edit and Clearmountain's response, "*Band/producer decision, if that's true. I think it was because it got a
bit boring during that section." is obviously WHY DID THEY RELEASE IT THEN!!!???

Or why not find another show to use? Not Bob's decision though.

Bob clearly has a sense of humor, which is evident at the end.

[forums.stevehoffman.tv]

As mentioned in the iorr link, it's laziness. As Mick loves to say, I can't be bothered, then, well, Mick, why did you bother then?

Let's hope if there is a 2024 tour live album Mick was able to be bothered!

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GasLightStreet
I listened to RACKET a couple of times but didn't pay attention - what's this about taking the studio guitar tracks!!?? Having watched the live video the live performance was fine. What is their deal!!!???

well i don't know where else the obvious and near identical to the studio version guitar overdubs came from on bmho unless keith went into the studio and overdubbed a new guitar track himself which seems unlikley

similar deal with angry as well

bite my head off as performed




bite my head off as released




angry as performed




angry as released

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GasLightStreet
Regarding LIVE LICKS, the better performance of Street Fighting Man was the PPV from Madison Square Garden: it didn't need editing. So why didn't that make the album!!!!???

The mix is great. Brown Sugar is, fortunately, short. Other than that, disc one is pointless.

Love Keith's 2 on disc two. Monkey Man is great.

CYHMK is just as pointless as Rocks Off.

At least parts of LOVE YOU LIVE are laughable, where as LIVE LICKS is a meandering yawn of a live release. Is it their worst? Eh, LIGHT THE FUSE is probably their worst. For a rehearsed band they are completely lost!!! But LIVE LICKS has other people playing guitar parts... was it Pierre?

Barely remembering specifics, I Googled and, ha ha... I'll just provide the link but the RS review is ridiculous:

[iorr.org]

Of course, as with anything that's got something great there's something awful (LTF). Fortunately they've been better since the BANG tour but even the video set was a horrible imitation of FOUR FLICKS.

I listened to RACKET a couple of times but didn't pay attention - what's this about taking the studio guitar tracks!!?? Having watched the live video the live performance was fine. What is their deal!!!???

Back to LIVE LICKS - this is an eye opener. After reading this, for the first time in years, the DUH question about an edit and Clearmountain's response, "*Band/producer decision, if that's true. I think it was because it got a
bit boring during that section." is obviously WHY DID THEY RELEASE IT THEN!!!???

Or why not find another show to use? Not Bob's decision though.


Bob clearly has a sense of humor, which is evident at the end.

[forums.stevehoffman.tv]

As mentioned in the iorr link, it's laziness. As Mick loves to say, I can't be bothered, then, well, Mick, why did you bother then?

Let's hope if there is a 2024 tour live album Mick was able to be bothered!

'What's the deal?' Exactly! There was nothing wrong with Keith's guitar during the performance of Bite My Head Off; so why replaced it with his - or someone else's (Ronnie's?) - rhythm-guitar from the studio track is a mystery. If you listen carefully, you can hear inserts of the studio track on Angry, too. Such a messy live release!

The "deal" likely was the very THIN sounding instrumentation based on the videos that were shared ! They certainly couldn't release that.

Same reason they (Pierre ?) redid Keith's trainwreck of the century OOC "solo" at the Havana concert, or his "Scarf Me Up" from HP 2013, it was unlistenable for anyone not on location, where pretty much anything goes thanks to the thrill of just being there.

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-03-29 17:18 by gotdablouse.

Oh damn! The certainly did fly in a guitar lick from the album! 1:32 (after Don't you spit in my face) Keith magically plays the descending guitar line on the live album (at about 2:02 on the live version).

That's the only thing I've noticed so far of Angry.

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GasLightStreet
Oh damn! The certainly did fly in a guitar lick from the album! 1:32 (after Don't you spit in my face) Keith magically plays the descending guitar line on the live album (at about 2:02 on the live version).

That's the only thing I've noticed so far of Angry.

Even funnier is that they pasted it in the wrong channel. So it's Ronnie "playing it".

Too funny that I forgot about that copy and paste. It's beyond obvious! Yeah, on Ronnie's side. That's really bizarre.

Was looking up Pierre de Beauport overdubs and came upon some fantastic raging here from 2021 and 2016.

Keith's little strangle during Out Of Control in HAVANA MOON. Aside from the live albums at least we know Keith is playing live for shows. "They" fixed his slopfest solo during SFTD from Miami 1994 for the video release, whatever it was called.

And in almost every video online the fixed part - never did figure out if it's from another show or an overdub - is in. I still have the live version. Whenever I need a really good laugh I go to it (and She's So Cold, 1982).

That Angry fly in was because Keith didn't play that (ever) in that moment! What a load of lunkheads - not everything needs to sound like the album version.

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GasLightStreet
Too funny that I forgot about that copy and paste. It's beyond obvious! Yeah, on Ronnie's side. That's really bizarre.

Was looking up Pierre de Beauport overdubs and came upon some fantastic raging here from 2021 and 2016.

Keith's little strangle during Out Of Control in HAVANA MOON. Aside from the live albums at least we know Keith is playing live for shows. "They" fixed his slopfest solo during SFTD from Miami 1994 for the video release, whatever it was called.

And in almost every video online the fixed part - never did figure out if it's from another show or an overdub - is in. I still have the live version. Whenever I need a really good laugh I go to it (and She's So Cold, 1982).

That Angry fly in was because Keith didn't play that (ever) in that moment! What a load of lunkheads - not everything needs to sound like the album version.

I don't even think Pierre did Overdubs on those releases. It's just editing nowadays

It's this kind of discussion, and whatever, details about, screwups and etc that keep iorr going. That make iorr interesting. 20 years later or whatever... somehow it doesn't stop.

The day it does, fine.

Until then - the details of vocal overdubs on GYYYO and everything else is a nuance that can't be found, with exception, respectfully so, to stevehoffman. I can't speak about Shidoobee (I always thought Mick et al were saying Shadoobie) since that place gives me a headache.

Back on subject:

If the Stones finish the HD leftovers, which are 75% done blah blah blah and

1. don't record additional new songs and finish the 75%
2. record a few more new songs since 75% maybe isn't enough

and are good with the results there will be one more album, either 7 tracks or 12, whatever. It doesn't matter. 35-45 minutes (HD is just over one minute halfway under 49 minutes).

3. decide to not finish them and not bother with another album, which goes completely against their attitude in 2023 about the HD sessions and how long they took to get there, then HD is the last album, with Rollin' Stone Blues being the last released Stones album song, ohhhhh circle complete after all, as it was said in some places and... a supposed 2026 tour (possibly with Mick turning 83 during) and that will very likely be it, the legacy finally cemented.

Right? How much longer can they push it!!!!??? It's not "as long as people show up." One day someone won't because it's enough or someone won't be able to show up and The Rolling Stones will be done.

Soon after there will be Rolling Stones mobile phones and... for probably 5 years they won't actually go away.

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StonedRambler

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GasLightStreet
Too funny that I forgot about that copy and paste. It's beyond obvious! Yeah, on Ronnie's side. That's really bizarre.

Was looking up Pierre de Beauport overdubs and came upon some fantastic raging here from 2021 and 2016.

Keith's little strangle during Out Of Control in HAVANA MOON. Aside from the live albums at least we know Keith is playing live for shows. "They" fixed his slopfest solo during SFTD from Miami 1994 for the video release, whatever it was called.

And in almost every video online the fixed part - never did figure out if it's from another show or an overdub - is in. I still have the live version. Whenever I need a really good laugh I go to it (and She's So Cold, 1982).

That Angry fly in was because Keith didn't play that (ever) in that moment! What a load of lunkheads - not everything needs to sound like the album version.

I don't even think Pierre did Overdubs on those releases. It's just editing nowadays

Did Pierre do overdubs on anything else than Austin 2006?

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hockenheim95

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StonedRambler

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GasLightStreet
Too funny that I forgot about that copy and paste. It's beyond obvious! Yeah, on Ronnie's side. That's really bizarre.

Was looking up Pierre de Beauport overdubs and came upon some fantastic raging here from 2021 and 2016.

Keith's little strangle during Out Of Control in HAVANA MOON. Aside from the live albums at least we know Keith is playing live for shows. "They" fixed his slopfest solo during SFTD from Miami 1994 for the video release, whatever it was called.

And in almost every video online the fixed part - never did figure out if it's from another show or an overdub - is in. I still have the live version. Whenever I need a really good laugh I go to it (and She's So Cold, 1982).

That Angry fly in was because Keith didn't play that (ever) in that moment! What a load of lunkheads - not everything needs to sound like the album version.

I don't even think Pierre did Overdubs on those releases. It's just editing nowadays

Did Pierre do overdubs on anything else than Austin 2006?

Not that I know.

happy sunday can someone in the music industry tell me how hard it would be to release an album for the stones without paying for it themselves.
do they have to pitch their music?
what is their current contract on releases?
can bv give me a short statement how it feels to look back at this amazing website
and what do you wish they would release? its april kinda ..i wish you good health
and wind in your sail

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kkhoranstoned

how hard it would be to release an album for the stones without paying for it themselves

Hackney Diamonds reached number one in 19 countries worldwide, sold over 1.2 million copies worldwide and won a GRAMMY. But there's way more money to be made from touring than from album sales.

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kkhoranstoned

what is their current contract on releases?

Nothing other than their partnership with [UniversalMusic.com] .

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kkhoranstoned

a short statement how it feels to look back at this amazing website

It was stated here: [iorr.org] .

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kkhoranstoned

what do you wish they would release?

This has already been answered several times in this thread.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-03-30 16:20 by Irix.

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Irix

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kkhoranstoned

how hard it would be to release an album for the stones without paying for it themselves

Hackney Diamonds reached number one in 19 countries worldwide, sold over 1.2 million copies worldwide and won a GRAMMY. But there's way more money to be made from touring than from album sales.

I think they realized that in the early seventies…

and – btw – they sold more tickets for last year's HD tour than the sold copies of the HD album…

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slewan

they sold more tickets for last year's HD tour than the sold copies of the HD album

848,000 tickets - [UltimateClassicRock.com] , [iorr.org] - vs. 1.2m worldwide HD-albums. But one ticket was average $270 while one album is average $20.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-03-30 17:40 by Irix.

Can't find North American total sales for HD other than the Google AI which is always wrong.

Gonna guess that more tickets were bought than vinyl and CD copies bought of HD in North America.