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GasLightStreet

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GerardHennessy
In '89 they were good but - for me - certainly not incredible. I'm very reluctant to use superlatives. Given their experience, history, recorded legacy and huge fan base we had every right to expect them to be at the top of their game. That was something they only occasionally achieved. I saw them a few times in '89. mostly they were as good as it was reasonable to expect. However two of their gigs were pretty lousy.

In 2019 I thought they were, at best, workmanlike. But mostly they were - at least to me - pedestrian. I do accept GasLightStreet's point about them not having anything left to prove that year. That is 100% correct. However in my opinion they had nothing left to prove after 1980. Pretty much everything after that was about retreading old ground and setting records for longevity..

My observations are only in the context of what I've witnessed, zero to do with their history and legacy and blah blah blah.

I'm not comparing to other tours. I never expected GET YER YA-YA'S OUT! to magically appear on stage. It's only about what I heard in person. The 1994 live PPV and the live tracks from HONK, oh, crap, kind of - only 6 songs are comparable, with Mr D and LSTNT being the best of the 6 to my ears (was Mick wearing a clothespin on his nose for Under My Thumb's vocal overdub?) - the NO FILTER Stones sound better than 1994-95 overall.

To top off about my saying they have nothing left to prove, not specifically in regard to what you said about you thinking they had nothing left to prove after 1980, perhaps Keith said it best in 1994:



After the 1981-82 tours, which, if you think about it, were just another couple of sloppy tours in comparison to how big and professional the tours would be, especially hype wise, from 1989 to 2003, what they had to prove was their defiance to being aged.

It's ridiculous. For a while it mattered that they recorded new albums, at least to them, so that they didn't look like The Beach Boys, or whatever reason they had (other than it's in the record contract) but even that paused and then stopped. So, aside from the basically 5 year break between BANG and whatever that was in 2012, they've kept on keeping on and now they're so far beyond the ridiculous ageism that... they have nothing left to prove: they're just doing what they do which is what they've done all along.

The criticism is hilarious. Their age now and still performing and people thinking it's ridiculous - you know what's ridiculous? Wars with lots of people dying because of ego.

That's a real thing. A band of geezers is not a global crisis. It's just music.

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GerardHennessy
Fair enough sir. We differ in some of our views but you will get no criticism or negativity from me. Differing views are what keep things interesting.

Regarding your point which I highlighted - I 100% agree. Ridiculous AND tragic. Everything else is people discussing music. A recreational activity supposedly giving pleasure to those who hear it!

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GasLightStreet

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GerardHennessy
Fair enough sir. We differ in some of our views but you will get no criticism or negativity from me. Differing views are what keep things interesting.

Regarding your point which I highlighted - I 100% agree. Ridiculous AND tragic. Everything else is people discussing music. A recreational activity supposedly giving pleasure to those who hear it!

Thank you.

We CAN differ from our views... for some, it's fluid. Some are solid in regard to this or that time frame.

Great.

Some are whatever about other.

Great!

Some get hung up in their version of quality control and don't evolve WITH the band (yet alone anything else most likely). The band, regardless of who it involves, continues. They are as we are.

I feel sorry for people that can't or won't grow with a band or artist as they change. As much as something happens and it's not good, fine, but they continue, and perhaps things come around, only, now, not then.

The time for legacy artists to surpass whatever creatively ended decades ago. There are only moments.

That's fantastic.

No trophies. Just... doing what they do. It's always now when they do it.

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MadMetaphoricalMax
'now they try to fit in with what they think is going to go down well with young listeners,'

I don't hear this at all. They experiment with what is current, and see how that can be folded in to their sound, and have done for decades. This worked out brilliantly on Hackney Diamonds, which is a diamond of a Stones LP.

'Phoney and sad'? I think that's the fans, sometimes.

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Big Al

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MadMetaphoricalMax
'now they try to fit in with what they think is going to go down well with young listeners,'

I don't hear this at all. They experiment with what is current, and see how that can be folded in to their sound, and have done for decades. This worked out brilliantly on Hackney Diamonds, which is a diamond of a Stones LP.

'Phoney and sad'? I think that's the fans, sometimes.

I think for some, the gripe with Hackney Diamonds is primarily to do with the production. This is the Stones' first release to really embrace the 'current'. pop-oriented production' of the 21 century, much beloved by today's contemporary producers, such as Andrew Watt.

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MadMetaphoricalMax
'now they try to fit in with what they think is going to go down well with young listeners,'

I don't hear this at all. They experiment with what is current, and see how that can be folded in to their sound, and have done for decades. This worked out brilliantly on Hackney Diamonds, which is a diamond of a Stones LP.

'Phoney and sad'? I think that's the fans, sometimes.

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keefriffhards
Why would you feel sorry for people that see the difference between greatness and mediocrity.

For a time the Stones were ahead of us, we had to catch up with the genius of their music, now they try to fit in with what they think is going to go down well with young listeners, it's not sad for a band trying to be current but it is phoney and sad when it's the Stones.

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Glimmerest
Continental Drift is awesome and I will die on this hill

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GasLightStreet

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keefriffhards
Why would you feel sorry for people that see the difference between greatness and mediocrity.

For a time the Stones were ahead of us, we had to catch up with the genius of their music, now they try to fit in with what they think is going to go down well with young listeners, it's not sad for a band trying to be current but it is phoney and sad when it's the Stones.

Because people refuse to grow. They purposely become fossils. Mediocrity is necessary. Which do you prefer - Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby... or Jumpin' Jack Flash?

That's a version of mediocrity.

Continental Drift or Short And Curlies? Continental Drift is mediocrity at its finest.

Knowing DIRTY WORK is their worst album ever doesn't keep one from listening to anything released after, like some claim, the 'I stopped listening after' whining fossil flag wavers. Bad songs on albums are skipped. BRIDGES has great and awful songs.

How have the Stones done something with fitting in with young listeners? Give an example of the Stones "trying to be current" lately.

There isn't one.


Miss You? Recorded the same day with the same beat was Start Me Up so it's coincidence that Miss You is "disco". It's not.

Too Much Blood? Yes.

Might As Well Get Juiced? Pathetic, way past late to the game.


Provide something that you think is the Stones "trying to be current" and "phoney".

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GasLightStreet
The point of Miss You and Start Me Up is they have the exact same beat. Yet Miss You is considered "disco". SMU is possibly the only other Stones song with cowbell all the way through it.

Remove the Master Musicians Of Joujouka part of Continental Drift and what is there? Is it the speed of light song that's great? It sounds like a PRIMITIVE COOL leftover.

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Glimmerest

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GasLightStreet
The point of Miss You and Start Me Up is they have the exact same beat. Yet Miss You is considered "disco". SMU is possibly the only other Stones song with cowbell all the way through it.

Remove the Master Musicians Of Joujouka part of Continental Drift and what is there? Is it the speed of light song that's great? It sounds like a PRIMITIVE COOL leftover.

I love the song exactly like it is, the "speed of light" part included. Imho it's incredibly odd to say 'you wouldn't like this song as much if it was different', because it doesn't matter if it's true, the song still exists the way it does. And why would it matter that it's a collaboration with other musicians? It was still the Stones decision to collab with them and what they would play.

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GasLightStreet
Getting back on subject, it's time for another hits comp. It's been almost 6 years since HONK!

Love this comment on the Steve Hoffman site: It’s awesome that they included the adored classic, “Doom and Gloom”.

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GerardHennessy
I actually quite liked some of Dirty Work. This probably means I am some kind of freak. I don't know why I like it. I don't know why I liked Gomper either but I do.

Ain't music wonderful? Some lovely people think The Stones evolved after 1980. Good for them. I think they went backwards. Good for me. I didn't fall out of love with The Stones because they evolved and changed. Very much the opposite. For me they became ordinary. Or maybe it is that I aged and became more wacky in my tastes.

These days I get more joy from discovering new and exciting music from other places and genres. That is just my own musical journey. No better, or no worse than anyone else. Just different. But I still wander back into Stonesland fairly regularly. They were where it all started for me. Now 62 years later we are all different. They are, I am, the world is too. And maybe there will be one last glorious blast in there somewhere. For many that came with Hackney Diamonds although it left me underwhelmed. . For me, there were stirrings of something on Lonesome & Blue, an album comprised entirely of old music. No sign of evolution there and yet, perversely, I like it a lot...

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ProfessorWolf

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Glimmerest

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GasLightStreet
The point of Miss You and Start Me Up is they have the exact same beat. Yet Miss You is considered "disco". SMU is possibly the only other Stones song with cowbell all the way through it.

Remove the Master Musicians Of Joujouka part of Continental Drift and what is there? Is it the speed of light song that's great? It sounds like a PRIMITIVE COOL leftover.

I love the song exactly like it is, the "speed of light" part included. Imho it's incredibly odd to say 'you wouldn't like this song as much if it was different', because it doesn't matter if it's true, the song still exists the way it does. And why would it matter that it's a collaboration with other musicians? It was still the Stones decision to collab with them and what they would play.

remove ry cooder's guitar and mick and marianne's lyrics from sister morphine and what do you like keith's acoustic?

so what if the master musicians of joujouka are what make the song great it's still great

people complain here about them lacking creativity or just going thru the motions or imitating themselves or trying to pander to young people (all overblown in my opinion)

but this is not that this is them trying to do something different and creative just for the sake of it

i couldn't tell you exactly why i like it so much but i can tell i get the same feeling when i first listened to it that i got from midnight rambler or ycagwyw or htw

and it doesn't sound anything like primitive cool or frankly anything else they've ever done short of maybe satanic majesties

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Glimmerest

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GasLightStreet
The point of Miss You and Start Me Up is they have the exact same beat. Yet Miss You is considered "disco". SMU is possibly the only other Stones song with cowbell all the way through it.

Remove the Master Musicians Of Joujouka part of Continental Drift and what is there? Is it the speed of light song that's great? It sounds like a PRIMITIVE COOL leftover.

What's wrong with that? As long as it fits better to the Stones than to any solo album ... The other way round was "Lonely At The Top", which fit better to Mick Jagger's solo work than to the Stones. So what?

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GasLightStreet
Because Gomper is just noise.

It sucks.

Even the Stones know it.

I liked a few songs, like 2000 Light Years, Citadel and She's a Rainbow, but basically I thought the album was a load of crap.

- Keith Richards, 1979

It's a fractured album. There are some good bits, and it's weird, and there's some real crap on it as well.

- Keith Richards, 1981

I don't think the songs are as good as a lot of music we did before or after, not by a long way, but that happens. It wasn't one of our great records, although it was a very interesting time. Sometimes you listen back to some music later on that is really quite good and which you've forgotten about - but I don't think that's true of Satanic Majesties.

- Charlie Watts, 2003

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GasLightStreet

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ProfessorWolf

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Glimmerest

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GasLightStreet
The point of Miss You and Start Me Up is they have the exact same beat. Yet Miss You is considered "disco". SMU is possibly the only other Stones song with cowbell all the way through it.

Remove the Master Musicians Of Joujouka part of Continental Drift and what is there? Is it the speed of light song that's great? It sounds like a PRIMITIVE COOL leftover.

I love the song exactly like it is, the "speed of light" part included. Imho it's incredibly odd to say 'you wouldn't like this song as much if it was different', because it doesn't matter if it's true, the song still exists the way it does. And why would it matter that it's a collaboration with other musicians? It was still the Stones decision to collab with them and what they would play.

remove ry cooder's guitar and mick and marianne's lyrics from sister morphine and what do you like keith's acoustic?

so what if the master musicians of joujouka are what make the song great it's still great

people complain here about them lacking creativity or just going thru the motions or imitating themselves or trying to pander to young people (all overblown in my opinion)

but this is not that this is them trying to do something different and creative just for the sake of it

i couldn't tell you exactly why i like it so much but i can tell i get the same feeling when i first listened to it that i got from midnight rambler or ycagwyw or htw

and it doesn't sound anything like primitive cool or frankly anything else they've ever done short of maybe satanic majesties

The point is, remove the instrumental part. The actual song is not even pedestrian. It sounds like a Jagger solo leftover. The song itself is garbage. Their creativity was getting a group of people together to do something, it wasn't inventive as the Stones directly.

There's a bit of a cop out with what Mick said:

...Brian took all of the Jajouka tapes and put them through phasing, which was really quite before its time. I always felt the Stones were quite adventurous that way.

- Mick Jagger, 1989

That third person thing again even though Mick and Keith had zero to do with it. But it's "the Stones".

It wasn't.

[timeisonourside.com]


Planes only fly as good as their pilot.

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Send It To me
It's 2025 and we might get another Stones record. Just appreciate what we're living through. It's remarkable.