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Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: yearsinthemaking ()
Date: December 26, 2024 20:12

I was wondering what everyone's opinion was in regard to when Keith was at his technical peak? I understand Keith has not been a technical wizard like Mick Taylor but he seems to have been the most confident and skillful in those 1971 shows where he solos often and his "riffing" was more adventurous. Any thoughts from others?

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: SomeGuy ()
Date: December 26, 2024 20:53

I would say the first few years of the seventies was when Keith was at his peak as a player, both as a rhythm player and 'soloist'. I even used to take a few of Mick Taylor's lead parts for Keith, but perhaps that had more to do with the guitar sound and the misleading stereo mix at the time.

Edit: of course I meant it the other way around: I mistook Keith for Mick T.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-12-26 22:56 by SomeGuy.

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Date: December 26, 2024 21:28

Dont care about technical to be honest. Its about feeling, touch and delivery. And keith is the best in that. Technical he got worse from 90 on if you ask me. But the important things he still got.

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: December 26, 2024 22:31

For me, his ‘peak’ was undoubtedly during the 1989-1990 Steel Wheels and Urban Jungle Tours. His playing, throughout, was exceptional. It wasn’t only the soloing confidence, but also the beautiful and intricate acoustic-work on numbers like Paint It, Black.

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: Whale ()
Date: December 26, 2024 22:58

Quote
PaintMonkeyManBlack
Dont care about technical to be honest. Its about feeling, touch and delivery. And keith is the best in that. Technical he got worse from 90 on if you ask me. But the important things he still got.
could not agree more
Keith is no Steve vai
and im very happy he isnt

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: 1963luca0 ()
Date: December 26, 2024 23:01

78-89, in my opinion

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: More Hot Rocks ()
Date: December 26, 2024 23:29

Quote
Big Al
For me, his ‘peak’ was undoubtedly during the 1989-1990 Steel Wheels and Urban Jungle Tours. His playing, throughout, was exceptional. It wasn’t only the soloing confidence, but also the beautiful and intricate acoustic-work on numbers like Paint It, Black.

You are 100 percent correct.

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: yearsinthemaking ()
Date: December 27, 2024 02:10

I think as Brian was fading out and Mick Taylor was developing Keith seemed to be more up front and confident in his playing. As MT became such a strong soloist in '72-'73 Keith stepped back a bit more. The stuff he does on the '71 British Tour is really incredible sounding. I'm no guitar technical genius but I just feel like Keith was really playing amazingly well on that tour

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: maidenlane ()
Date: December 27, 2024 03:23

Interesting topic, yearsITM. Your view is similar to that expressed on GimmeMT, which is reviewing all MT-era live Stones in order. The recent essay on 1971 expresses surprise that Keith's playing in 1971 still had something that was largely gone in 1972 and after.

I'm not sure it is "technical" ability or peak creativity, but I agree that Keith's ability to improvise dark, rich bluesrock guitar lines in the manner of "lead guitarists" still existed in 1971 and seemed to quickly disappear afterward. And it did not reappear after the departure of Mick Taylor.

Of course, the PR narrative then shifted (courtesy Jane Rose) to Keith being THE peerless rhythm player of all time. Few will argue with that in any era.

The Rolling Stones successfully adjusted around Keith as his playing style changed. Many of us loved 1978 and 1981 and later tours, but few would argue Keith's live playing in those years sounded at all like 1969-1971. Some might even prefer those later years, but I don't think many would argue that they sound like his playing a decade earlier.

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: pmk251 ()
Date: December 27, 2024 03:33

Quote
SomeGuy
I would say the first few years of the seventies was when Keith was at his peak as a player, both as a rhythm player and 'soloist'. I even used to take a few of Mick Taylor's lead parts for Keith, but perhaps that had more to do with the guitar sound and the misleading stereo mix at the time.

Edit: of course I meant it the other way around: I mistook Keith for Mick T.

I point out the Pittsburgh '72 recording. There is almost complete separation of the guitars in the left and right channels. You can isolate MT's or Keith's playing. It's educational, especially for the play along guitar players..

I love the feel of the music on the '69 tour and I credit much of that to Keith.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-12-27 05:05 by pmk251.

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: December 27, 2024 07:05

Creatively - 1967-1983.

Performance - 1969-1981.

What he did in 1989-2007 was nothing different than Mick having dance lessons.

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: Whale ()
Date: December 27, 2024 11:08

Quote
More Hot Rocks
Quote
Big Al
For me, his ‘peak’ was undoubtedly during the 1989-1990 Steel Wheels and Urban Jungle Tours. His playing, throughout, was exceptional. It wasn’t only the soloing confidence, but also the beautiful and intricate acoustic-work on numbers like Paint It, Black.

You are 100 percent correct.
i dont understand you guys
just listen to the solo on sympathy on gyyo
is there a similar highlight in 1989-90?

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: MartinB ()
Date: December 27, 2024 11:28

Quote
GasLightStreet
Creatively - 1967-1983.

Performance - 1969-1981.

What he did in 1989-2007 was nothing different than Mick having dance lessons.

Agree

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: December 27, 2024 11:57

Quote
Whale
Quote
More Hot Rocks
Quote
Big Al
For me, his ‘peak’ was undoubtedly during the 1989-1990 Steel Wheels and Urban Jungle Tours. His playing, throughout, was exceptional. It wasn’t only the soloing confidence, but also the beautiful and intricate acoustic-work on numbers like Paint It, Black.

You are 100 percent correct.
i dont understand you guys
just listen to the solo on sympathy on gyyo
is there a similar highlight in 1989-90?


Yes! Keith’s soloing on Sympathy For The Devil; just listen to Atlantic City, or Tokyo Dome; watch At The Max. I love and appreciate all of Keith’s, say, pre-Licks Tour guitar-work, but he was a beast during their 1989-90 Tour. The dip started during the Voodoo Lounge Tour, but - for me, that is - wasn’t overly noticeable until The Licks Tour, and became problematic during stages of the A Bigger Bang Tour. I stand by it: Keith’s peak was during 1989-90

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: December 27, 2024 13:43

Most powerful: 1969 - 1973
Most creative: 1975 - 1981
Technically most advanced: Japan 1990

Mathijs

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: SomeGuy ()
Date: December 27, 2024 14:11

Quote
MartinB
Quote
GasLightStreet
Creatively - 1967-1983.

Performance - 1969-1981.

What he did in 1989-2007 was nothing different than Mick having dance lessons.

Agree

I agree as well. Except maybe that Mick's dance lessons probably proved useful, whereas Keith's playing didn't improve from them smiling smiley

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Date: December 27, 2024 15:09

When Al Di Meola tests Keith's tele or gets jealous - facebook link below the picture- I think Keith must be doing something very good !. winking smiley




[www.facebook.com]

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: Sighunt ()
Date: December 27, 2024 16:15

Quote
Big Al
Quote
Whale
Quote
More Hot Rocks
Quote
Big Al
For me, his ‘peak’ was undoubtedly during the 1989-1990 Steel Wheels and Urban Jungle Tours. His playing, throughout, was exceptional. It wasn’t only the soloing confidence, but also the beautiful and intricate acoustic-work on numbers like Paint It, Black.

You are 100 percent correct.
i dont understand you guys
just listen to the solo on sympathy on gyyo
is there a similar highlight in 1989-90?


Yes! Keith’s soloing on Sympathy For The Devil; just listen to Atlantic City, or Tokyo Dome; watch At The Max. I love and appreciate all of Keith’s, say, pre-Licks Tour guitar-work, but he was a beast during their 1989-90 Tour. The dip started during the Voodoo Lounge Tour, but - for me, that is - wasn’t overly noticeable until The Licks Tour, and became problematic during stages of the A Bigger Bang Tour. I stand by it: Keith’s peak was during 1989-90

As a long time aspiring guitar player (who continues to work on improving my skills), I have "attempted" to follow and emulate Keith's techniques and playing style over the years through videos, guitar books, etc. I would also echo Big Al's assessment that Keith's peak as a guitar player was during the Steel Wheels/Urban Jungle tour. By the time they came back for the Voodoo Lounge tour and onward, I could hear a noticeable decline in his guitar playing, which unfortunately, from my estimation, never returned to the consistent level of playing he demonstrated on the Steel Wheels tour.

What truly amazes me is what I hear from Keith on concert recordings during the Mick Taylor years. His complimentary & counterpoint playing is really awesome and is a perfect fit for Taylor's phrasing and soloing.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2024-12-27 16:59 by Sighunt.

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: Bjorn ()
Date: December 27, 2024 17:06

1978-1990. At the top.

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: December 27, 2024 17:09

Quote
Mathijs
Most powerful: 1969 - 1973
Most creative: 1975 - 1981
Technically most advanced: Japan 1990

Mathijs

Nicely categorized. And I pretty much agree with it. When I was thinking the initial question about technical peak, 1989/90 sounded obvious, but at the same time that was also when Keith sounded most 'normal' guitar player, you know, like anyone playing great guitar. For Keith that kind of fluidity and technical easiness in solos etc. sounds striking... "Oh he can play that traditionally good as well..." But still the kind of distinctive, powerful, idiosyncratic Keith from the previous tours is still The Keef that affects me most. There was never anything 'normal' in his playing then...

- Doxa

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: December 27, 2024 18:25

Others here may be know more, but didn’t Keith often win the ‘best guitarist’ category in music-polls circa 1964-65? Obviously, when Clapton was more widely known, with the release of the ‘Beano album’, that changed. I certainly don’t believe there were many ‘beat-groups’ who had quite such a gifted guitarist as Keith. Some of my very-favourite ‘Keith moments’ are on those first few Decca albums; especially ‘Down The Road Apiece’ In my opinion, that’s an absolute masterclass in Berry-esque riffing and soloing!

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: Testify ()
Date: December 27, 2024 18:39

Quote
Sighunt
Quote
Big Al
Quote
Whale
Quote
More Hot Rocks
Quote
Big Al
For me, his ‘peak’ was undoubtedly during the 1989-1990 Steel Wheels and Urban Jungle Tours. His playing, throughout, was exceptional. It wasn’t only the soloing confidence, but also the beautiful and intricate acoustic-work on numbers like Paint It, Black.

You are 100 percent correct.
i dont understand you guys
just listen to the solo on sympathy on gyyo
is there a similar highlight in 1989-90?


Yes! Keith’s soloing on Sympathy For The Devil; just listen to Atlantic City, or Tokyo Dome; watch At The Max. I love and appreciate all of Keith’s, say, pre-Licks Tour guitar-work, but he was a beast during their 1989-90 Tour. The dip started during the Voodoo Lounge Tour, but - for me, that is - wasn’t overly noticeable until The Licks Tour, and became problematic during stages of the A Bigger Bang Tour. I stand by it: Keith’s peak was during 1989-90

As a long time aspiring guitar player (who continues to work on improving my skills), I have "attempted" to follow and emulate Keith's techniques and playing style over the years through videos, guitar books, etc. I would also echo Big Al's assessment that Keith's peak as a guitar player was during the Steel Wheels/Urban Jungle tour. By the time they came back for the Voodoo Lounge tour and onward, I could hear a noticeable decline in his guitar playing, which unfortunately, from my estimation, never returned to the consistent level of playing he demonstrated on the Steel Wheels tour.

What truly amazes me is what I hear from Keith on concert recordings during the Mick Taylor years. His complimentary & counterpoint playing is really awesome and is a perfect fit for Taylor's phrasing and soloing.

Did you listen to the Paradiso concert in Amsterdam in '95? It doesn't seem to me to be in decline....
[www.youtube.com]

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: Sighunt ()
Date: December 27, 2024 19:04

Quote
Testify
Quote
Sighunt
Quote
Big Al
Quote
Whale
Quote
More Hot Rocks
Quote
Big Al
For me, his ‘peak’ was undoubtedly during the 1989-1990 Steel Wheels and Urban Jungle Tours. His playing, throughout, was exceptional. It wasn’t only the soloing confidence, but also the beautiful and intricate acoustic-work on numbers like Paint It, Black.

You are 100 percent correct.
i dont understand you guys
just listen to the solo on sympathy on gyyo
is there a similar highlight in 1989-90?


Yes! Keith’s soloing on Sympathy For The Devil; just listen to Atlantic City, or Tokyo Dome; watch At The Max. I love and appreciate all of Keith’s, say, pre-Licks Tour guitar-work, but he was a beast during their 1989-90 Tour. The dip started during the Voodoo Lounge Tour, but - for me, that is - wasn’t overly noticeable until The Licks Tour, and became problematic during stages of the A Bigger Bang Tour. I stand by it: Keith’s peak was during 1989-90

As a long time aspiring guitar player (who continues to work on improving my skills), I have "attempted" to follow and emulate Keith's techniques and playing style over the years through videos, guitar books, etc. I would also echo Big Al's assessment that Keith's peak as a guitar player was during the Steel Wheels/Urban Jungle tour. By the time they came back for the Voodoo Lounge tour and onward, I could hear a noticeable decline in his guitar playing, which unfortunately, from my estimation, never returned to the consistent level of playing he demonstrated on the Steel Wheels tour.

What truly amazes me is what I hear from Keith on concert recordings during the Mick Taylor years. His complimentary & counterpoint playing is really awesome and is a perfect fit for Taylor's phrasing and soloing.

Did you listen to the Paradiso concert in Amsterdam in '95? It doesn't seem to me to be in decline....
[www.youtube.com]

I won't argue that Keith had great moments in concert beyond the Steel Wheels tour, but his level of playing was not as consistent and technically better than what he brought to Steel Wheels. If you listen to commercial and available bootleg recordings from Steel Wheels, Keith pretty much brought his A game to those shows.

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: Rutger ()
Date: December 27, 2024 21:50

I always laugh hard when people tell me that Keith's best playing was in the early seventies. Yes, he was great in the early seventies, but he has been great for many, many years!

Just look up the videos on youtube from Salute! 1983 where Keith plays with Jerry Lee Lewis. Some of the best playing I've seen Keith do. These videos are some of the best hidden secrets on YouTube.

Last week I saw a video from 1998 where they played Flip The Switch. I think it comes from an official release that I still have on videotape somewhere. Keith in absolute top form there as well.

In my opinion Keith went downhill from 2006 onwards.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-12-27 21:54 by Rutger.

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: December 27, 2024 22:48

1989 and 1994 his playing seemed a bit by the numbers, although with some songs on VOODOO it wasn't anywhere sterile like STEEL WHEELS was.

1997-2003 Keith seemed to have found a different gear in regard to how the band played. Of course they sounded way different than 1978 and 1981 in terms of being a breathing rhythm monster but BRIDGES brought something out in Keith and after the LICKS tour it was turned off.

His peak? Not really sure about that. His best rhythm vamping - Honky Tonk Women 1978 and 1981-82. His best solo? Of course what little he did in SFTD on YA-YAS but his solo for HTW, especially the version on LOVE YOU LIVE... amazingly fantastic. Since then, not really. 1989 brought on the three note strangle.

In the studio, way too many. His playing throughout UNDERCOVER is fantastic, and he's back again like that with BRIDGES. Everything in between is a bit of a snooze except for Take It So Hard, Struggle, How I Wish, Locked Away, Wicked, Runnin', Will But You Won't and Demon. Just those eight are fantastic.

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Date: December 28, 2024 01:11

Quote
Mathijs
Most powerful: 1969 - 1973
Most creative: 1975 - 1981
Technically most advanced: Japan 1990

Mathijs

What I noticed most - listening to SFTD- is that Keith is playing the right notes at the right place, splendid timing, playing some distorted overtones. His pullings and bending are very in tune. Reading the song very good. So both creative and technical. I suspect him to be completely sober and very alert here. Of course he has been powerful throughout most of his career.

The studio version of "Short and Curlies" equilized this. Actually my favourite Keith when it comes to reading a song as a lead guitarist. There he had it all. Maybe even a white line or some whiskey. These ingredients gave him that little extra, imho.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-12-28 01:21 by TheflyingDutchman.

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: yearsinthemaking ()
Date: December 28, 2024 01:57

It's interesting listening to RnR Circus because Keith was having to be the entire guitar section because Brian's guitar was basically turned off. Keith is pretty creative during the show because of that. I think he was putting a lot of energy in to learning more styles during that period of the late 60's and early 70's

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: December 28, 2024 03:27

He had twin peaks.1972-1973 and1989-1990.Brussels Midnight Rambler and JJ Flash 1990, Tokyo Dome

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: windmelody ()
Date: December 28, 2024 10:45

Keith Richards peaked several times through the decades. In the studio his playing on Gimme shelter or Monkey man remains breathtaking - fiftyfive years after it was recorded. Like others on this board I believe that 1989/90 was special. Stripped an Stripped Companion are fanstastic; on the BtB/NS-Tour he had wonderful moments. I remember the final night in the driving rain of Cologne. One reason for his brilliance in 89/90 might have been, that he needed the success. He probably had realized that the Winos were an interesting project, yet with a limitated potential. After 1990 he was settled financially - so he was ready to relax and did not have to controll his boozing any longer. All in all he functioned well through the nineties. The decline became obvious during the Licks Tour, and dramatic during the ABB-Tour.

Re: Keith as a guitarist
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: December 28, 2024 11:41

Quote
Testify
Quote
Sighunt
Quote
Big Al
Quote
Whale
Quote
More Hot Rocks
Quote
Big Al
For me, his ‘peak’ was undoubtedly during the 1989-1990 Steel Wheels and Urban Jungle Tours. His playing, throughout, was exceptional. It wasn’t only the soloing confidence, but also the beautiful and intricate acoustic-work on numbers like Paint It, Black.

You are 100 percent correct.
i dont understand you guys
just listen to the solo on sympathy on gyyo
is there a similar highlight in 1989-90?


Yes! Keith’s soloing on Sympathy For The Devil; just listen to Atlantic City, or Tokyo Dome; watch At The Max. I love and appreciate all of Keith’s, say, pre-Licks Tour guitar-work, but he was a beast during their 1989-90 Tour. The dip started during the Voodoo Lounge Tour, but - for me, that is - wasn’t overly noticeable until The Licks Tour, and became problematic during stages of the A Bigger Bang Tour. I stand by it: Keith’s peak was during 1989-90

As a long time aspiring guitar player (who continues to work on improving my skills), I have "attempted" to follow and emulate Keith's techniques and playing style over the years through videos, guitar books, etc. I would also echo Big Al's assessment that Keith's peak as a guitar player was during the Steel Wheels/Urban Jungle tour. By the time they came back for the Voodoo Lounge tour and onward, I could hear a noticeable decline in his guitar playing, which unfortunately, from my estimation, never returned to the consistent level of playing he demonstrated on the Steel Wheels tour.

What truly amazes me is what I hear from Keith on concert recordings during the Mick Taylor years. His complimentary & counterpoint playing is really awesome and is a perfect fit for Taylor's phrasing and soloing.

Did you listen to the Paradiso concert in Amsterdam in '95? It doesn't seem to me to be in decline....
[www.youtube.com]

Unquestionably, Keith was excellent at this time; it just not quite as good as 1989-90. Although there was another slight dip, his playing during the Bridges to Babylon and No Security Tours was often very good, too.

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