I remember reading an article years ago about Keith and Ron in New York City trying guitars for the first time, which didn't need guitar chords to plug into amps. If I remember correctly, Ron and Keith opened the windows in a New York City building where they had their amps and went outside, walking down a street playing their guitars and listening to the music coming out of the building's windows.

Does anyone remember this article? I want to reread it.

Guitars with no chords! I'm curious to know what those would sound like...
(sorry see what you mean but had to make this too obvious remark).

Quote
SomeGuy
Guitars with no chords! I'm curious to know what those would sound like...
(sorry see what you mean but had to make this too obvious remark).

I actually think ALL guitars are chordless (except with fingers accurately placed), with the exception of a 5 string open G tuned guitar (and that's only for G chord - without at least barring the strings) - which keeps this on topic.

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treaclefingers

Quote
SomeGuy
Guitars with no chords! I'm curious to know what those would sound like...
(sorry see what you mean but had to make this too obvious remark).

I actually think ALL guitars are chordless (except with fingers accurately placed), with the exception of a 5 string open G tuned guitar (and that's only for G chord - without at least barring the strings) - which keeps this on topic.

You're right of course

First time stones used them was for NYC, Chicago, LA shows 1975 and I think the technology was hit or miss. Some songs had them plugged in while others wireless including Jaggers microphone. By 1981 I think it was all wireless for the most part but I could be wrong.

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SomeGuy

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treaclefingers

Quote
SomeGuy
Guitars with no chords! I'm curious to know what those would sound like...
(sorry see what you mean but had to make this too obvious remark).

I actually think ALL guitars are chordless (except with fingers accurately placed), with the exception of a 5 string open G tuned guitar (and that's only for G chord - without at least barring the strings) - which keeps this on topic.

You're right of course

Well Merry freakin' Christmas to us all!

I remember reading this. It might have been in Rolling Stone magazine, maybe late 1970's. That was my source for music news back then.

quote=exilestones]
I remember reading an article years ago about Keith and Ron in New York City trying guitars for the first time, which didn't need guitar chords to plug into amps. If I remember correctly, Ron and Keith opened the windows in a New York City building where they had their amps and went outside, walking down a street playing their guitars and listening to the music coming out of the building's windows.

Does anyone remember this article? I want to reread it.[/quote]

Yes I remember it7

Quote
Bashlets
First time stones used them was for NYC, Chicago, LA shows 1975 and I think the technology was hit or miss. Some songs had them plugged in while others wireless including Jaggers microphone. By 1981 I think it was all wireless for the most part but I could be wrong.

Yes 1975/1976 Mick used his wireless Mic (a very big one) only for Midnight Rambler, if I remember it right.

It`s nice to be here, .....

The cheap ones were tricky. I once played with a bassist (1981)-wireless. Until
the police came in the venue and asked him to skip to wired again. The police car only received his bass guitar in the neighbourhood.

The trouble with neon signs and local cab radio for early wireless sucked.

..



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-12-21 04:19 by tommyturbo76.

I was at 2 LA 75 shows. Mick had 1st wireless mic I'd seen, used it for the Billy Preston songs. I remember the guitars being wired, and I just watched LA Friday videos again to be sure. I don't doubt they could have used wireless guitars or a song or two, or at other venues, just that I never noticed in the two shows.

>> First time stones used them was for NYC, Chicago, LA shows 1975 and I think the technology was hit or miss.

>> Yes 1975/1976 Mick used his wireless Mic (a very big one) only for Midnight Rambler

Jagger's wireless microphone in 1975 was a prototype Nady. Sound and receipt was generally good, but the battery drained within 10 minutes and need to be replaced. That's why he changed to a standard microphone every other song. The wireless systems the Stones experimented with in 1975 and 1976 was the Schaffer-Vega system. But, up to 1978 that system was really flawed and was hardly used. They used this system on the 1978 tours, and changed to Nady on the 1981/1982 tour.

I believe they now use Sony Diversity systems.

Mathijs

Quote
Mathijs
Jagger's wireless microphone in 1975 was a prototype Nady. Sound and receipt was generally good, but the battery drained within 10 minutes and need to be replaced. That's why he changed to a standard microphone every other song. The wireless systems the Stones experimented with in 1975 and 1976 was the Schaffer-Vega system. But, up to 1978 that system was really flawed and was hardly used. They used this system on the 1978 tours, and changed to Nady on the 1981/1982 tour.

I believe they now use Sony Diversity systems.

Mathijs

It was not Nady. It was Shaffer Vega. Nady didn't exist until the following years.

Ken Schaffer worked with the Stones in 1975 on this

Thanks for all the great information!

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Mathijs
Jagger's wireless microphone in 1975 was a prototype Nady. Sound and receipt was generally good, but the battery drained within 10 minutes and need to be replaced. That's why he changed to a standard microphone every other song. The wireless systems the Stones experimented with in 1975 and 1976 was the Schaffer-Vega system. But, up to 1978 that system was really flawed and was hardly used. They used this system on the 1978 tours, and changed to Nady on the 1981/1982 tour.

I believe they now use Sony Diversity systems.

Mathijs

It was not Nady. It was Shaffer Vega. Nady didn't exist until the following years.

Ken Schaffer worked with the Stones in 1975 on this

The Nady microphone wasn't commercially available until 1976, the one Jagger used was a prototype not commercially available.

Shaffer Vega only produced wireless guitar systems in 1975 and did not have wireless microphones until 1978.

Nady was based on a companding process that did not need an antenna to broadcast. Shaffer was based on diversity, meaning it was the same system as taxi's used with an antenna to broadcast, but diversity was added to minimize unwanted channel changes and interruptions.

When they changed to Nady on the 1981 tour the sound and receipt was better, but as there was no diversity with a bit of luck all taxi drivers in the area could receive the Stones' signals.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-01-19 13:53 by Mathijs.

Some musicians found it easier to adjust to the early wireless transmitters than others.

Not because there was anything wrong with the signal, but because there were no longer the signal losses associated with cables, especially longer ones.

This required EQ adjustment and left many early users thinking that wireless systems had an overly bright, cold and hard sound.

Quote
Mathijs

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Quote
Mathijs
Jagger's wireless microphone in 1975 was a prototype Nady. Sound and receipt was generally good, but the battery drained within 10 minutes and need to be replaced. That's why he changed to a standard microphone every other song. The wireless systems the Stones experimented with in 1975 and 1976 was the Schaffer-Vega system. But, up to 1978 that system was really flawed and was hardly used. They used this system on the 1978 tours, and changed to Nady on the 1981/1982 tour.

I believe they now use Sony Diversity systems.

Mathijs

It was not Nady. It was Shaffer Vega. Nady didn't exist until the following years.

Ken Schaffer worked with the Stones in 1975 on this

The Nady microphone wasn't commercially available until 1976, the one Jagger used was a prototype not commercially available.

Shaffer Vega only produced wireless guitar systems in 1975 and did not have wireless microphones until 1978.

Nady was based on a companding process that did not need an antenna to broadcast. Shaffer was based on diversity, meaning it was the same system as taxi's used with an antenna to broadcast, but diversity was added to minimize unwanted channel changes and interruptions.

When they changed to Nady on the 1981 tour the sound and receipt was better, but as there was no diversity with a bit of luck all taxi drivers in the area could receive the Stones' signals.

Mathijs

Mathijs

Absolutly wrong. My information is correct. You are completely wrong about the first syystems.

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Mathijs

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Mathijs
Jagger's wireless microphone in 1975 was a prototype Nady. Sound and receipt was generally good, but the battery drained within 10 minutes and need to be replaced. That's why he changed to a standard microphone every other song. The wireless systems the Stones experimented with in 1975 and 1976 was the Schaffer-Vega system. But, up to 1978 that system was really flawed and was hardly used. They used this system on the 1978 tours, and changed to Nady on the 1981/1982 tour.

I believe they now use Sony Diversity systems.

Mathijs

It was not Nady. It was Shaffer Vega. Nady didn't exist until the following years.

Ken Schaffer worked with the Stones in 1975 on this

The Nady microphone wasn't commercially available until 1976, the one Jagger used was a prototype not commercially available.

Shaffer Vega only produced wireless guitar systems in 1975 and did not have wireless microphones until 1978.

Nady was based on a companding process that did not need an antenna to broadcast. Shaffer was based on diversity, meaning it was the same system as taxi's used with an antenna to broadcast, but diversity was added to minimize unwanted channel changes and interruptions.

When they changed to Nady on the 1981 tour the sound and receipt was better, but as there was no diversity with a bit of luck all taxi drivers in the area could receive the Stones' signals.

Mathijs

Mathijs

Absolutly wrong. My information is correct. You are completely wrong about the first syystems.

I like it how Mathijs gives a well developed answer and then this Hot Rock comes in and makes this big statement full of spelling mistakes. Mathijs may still be « absolutly » (sic) wrong but he a lot more credible.

Quote
Spud
Some musicians found it easier to adjust to the early wireless transmitters than others.

Not because there was anything wrong with the signal, but because there were no longer the signal losses associated with cables, especially longer ones.

This required EQ adjustment and left many early users thinking that wireless systems had an overly bright, cold and hard sound.

For guitars the wireless systems, especially that of Schaffer, had a huge benefit as the transmitter/receiver had a pre-amp with volume control and this could be used for driving the front of a tube amp harder, resulting in more drive and greater dynamics. Angus Young's secret ingredient to his sound is his old Schaffer units, and the Stones sound of 1978 and 1981/82 was that of Boogie's driven hard by the wireless units. Many guitarists use wireless even in small clubs where you do not need it really just because of the pre-amp.

The Schaffer pre-amp is now also available in a pedal format:

[www.solodallas-europe.com]

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-01-19 14:05 by Mathijs.

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Mathijs

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Mathijs
Jagger's wireless microphone in 1975 was a prototype Nady. Sound and receipt was generally good, but the battery drained within 10 minutes and need to be replaced. That's why he changed to a standard microphone every other song. The wireless systems the Stones experimented with in 1975 and 1976 was the Schaffer-Vega system. But, up to 1978 that system was really flawed and was hardly used. They used this system on the 1978 tours, and changed to Nady on the 1981/1982 tour.

I believe they now use Sony Diversity systems.

Mathijs

It was not Nady. It was Schaffer Vega. Nady didn't exist until the following years.

Ken Schaffer worked with the Stones in 1975 on this

The Nady microphone wasn't commercially available until 1976, the one Jagger used was a prototype not commercially available.

Schaffer Vega only produced wireless guitar systems in 1975 and did not have wireless microphones until 1978.

Nady was based on a companding process that did not need an antenna to broadcast. Shaffer was based on diversity, meaning it was the same system as taxi's used with an antenna to broadcast, but diversity was added to minimize unwanted channel changes and interruptions.

When they changed to Nady on the 1981 tour the sound and receipt was better, but as there was no diversity with a bit of luck all taxi drivers in the area could receive the Stones' signals.

Mathijs

Absolutly wrong. My information is correct. You are completely wrong about the first syystems.

Excerpts from two interviews with Ken Schaffer:

Interview 1:

Ken Schaffer on the 1975 Rolling Stones Tour: Mick was given a wireless microphone — of course, the best money could buy at the time — to run behind the stage a couple of times each night to shake his leg for fans stuck in the booneys. And every night was a disaster. The radio mic sounded horrible, at best, but more often would fade out or pick up police and taxi dispatch calls. So, I’m sitting watching, my jaw agape, thinking, “I can make a better radio than that!” And I could. So I went back to New York and started to fiddle with circuit boards and ideas… the “build a better microphone” idea soon fell away: instead of building a better mousetrap I decided to focus on doing something new, something no one had ever done — to build a wireless system for guitars. There were more technical challenges to that — it was easier to transmit a voice signal than a guitar’s — so I diverted all my attention to that.

Interview 2:

In 1975, Schaffer was hired by the Rolling Stones to find opening acts for the band's American concert tour that year. In the arenas where the Stones played on that tour, tickets were often sold for seats behind the stage.

Ken Schaffer: The people sitting in these seats couldn't see very much, and to accommodate them Mick Jagger would occasionally switch to a wireless microphone and sing from the back of the stage. The microphone he used, like all wireless microphones available at that time, was of poor quality. "Every night, some disaster would happen during the couple of minutes when the wireless mike was being used," Schaffer says. "It would pick up a taxicab or a police car and blast it through the P.A. at ten thousand watts, or the sound would fade out and get fuzzy. At best, it sounded horrible." Schaffer decided that he could do better, and he set out to build not only an improved wireless microphone but also a wireless electric guitar. The guitar was especially appealing to him, because he felt that it would be harder to build, and because no one had ever built one before. "I didn't want to just build a better mousetrap," he says. Schaffer spent about two years experimenting with wireless devices, eventually building what he called the Schaffer-Vega Diversity System.

Q: You also created a wireless microphone soon after – what is different about those units when compared to those made for instrument signals?
Ken Schaffer: Is more a form-factor thing. The front end of the transmitters and back end of the receivers were tweaked to optimize for the differences in the dynamics and attacks of voice compared to guitar signals. Different pre-emphasis and de-emphasis. In a big phallic housing. We never pushed the mics much, so only a few dozen bands used the SVDS microphone. My heart was never really into the mic, actually: guitars were my thing.

Q: Was safety a major selling point back then or was it all about the freedom and convenience the units offered?

Ken Schaffer: It was just a given. But being wireless wasn’t safe for everybody: The Rolling Stones almost lost Bill Wyman during one of the first nights everybody was wireless. Bill was known for standing quite still throughout every set, but once untethered, he actually moved — he walked backwards until he felt clean off the stage in St. Paul, MN and fractured his wrist. (Mathijs: July 10, 1978)

Mathijs

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
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Mathijs

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Mathijs
Jagger's wireless microphone in 1975 was a prototype Nady. Sound and receipt was generally good, but the battery drained within 10 minutes and need to be replaced. That's why he changed to a standard microphone every other song. The wireless systems the Stones experimented with in 1975 and 1976 was the Schaffer-Vega system. But, up to 1978 that system was really flawed and was hardly used. They used this system on the 1978 tours, and changed to Nady on the 1981/1982 tour.

I believe they now use Sony Diversity systems.

Mathijs

It was not Nady. It was Schaffer Vega. Nady didn't exist until the following years.

Ken Schaffer worked with the Stones in 1975 on this

The Nady microphone wasn't commercially available until 1976, the one Jagger used was a prototype not commercially available.

Schaffer Vega only produced wireless guitar systems in 1975 and did not have wireless microphones until 1978.

Nady was based on a companding process that did not need an antenna to broadcast. Shaffer was based on diversity, meaning it was the same system as taxi's used with an antenna to broadcast, but diversity was added to minimize unwanted channel changes and interruptions.

When they changed to Nady on the 1981 tour the sound and receipt was better, but as there was no diversity with a bit of luck all taxi drivers in the area could receive the Stones' signals.

Mathijs

Absolutly wrong. My information is correct. You are completely wrong about the first syystems.

Excerpts from two interviews with Ken Schaffer:

Interview 1:

Ken Schaffer on the 1975 Rolling Stones Tour: Mick was given a wireless microphone — of course, the best money could buy at the time — to run behind the stage a couple of times each night to shake his leg for fans stuck in the booneys. And every night was a disaster. The radio mic sounded horrible, at best, but more often would fade out or pick up police and taxi dispatch calls. So, I’m sitting watching, my jaw agape, thinking, “I can make a better radio than that!” And I could. So I went back to New York and started to fiddle with circuit boards and ideas… the “build a better microphone” idea soon fell away: instead of building a better mousetrap I decided to focus on doing something new, something no one had ever done — to build a wireless system for guitars. There were more technical challenges to that — it was easier to transmit a voice signal than a guitar’s — so I diverted all my attention to that.

Interview 2:

In 1975, Schaffer was hired by the Rolling Stones to find opening acts for the band's American concert tour that year. In the arenas where the Stones played on that tour, tickets were often sold for seats behind the stage.

Ken Schaffer: The people sitting in these seats couldn't see very much, and to accommodate them Mick Jagger would occasionally switch to a wireless microphone and sing from the back of the stage. The microphone he used, like all wireless microphones available at that time, was of poor quality. "Every night, some disaster would happen during the couple of minutes when the wireless mike was being used," Schaffer says. "It would pick up a taxicab or a police car and blast it through the P.A. at ten thousand watts, or the sound would fade out and get fuzzy. At best, it sounded horrible." Schaffer decided that he could do better, and he set out to build not only an improved wireless microphone but also a wireless electric guitar. The guitar was especially appealing to him, because he felt that it would be harder to build, and because no one had ever built one before. "I didn't want to just build a better mousetrap," he says. Schaffer spent about two years experimenting with wireless devices, eventually building what he called the Schaffer-Vega Diversity System.

Q: You also created a wireless microphone soon after – what is different about those units when compared to those made for instrument signals?
Ken Schaffer: Is more a form-factor thing. The front end of the transmitters and back end of the receivers were tweaked to optimize for the differences in the dynamics and attacks of voice compared to guitar signals. Different pre-emphasis and de-emphasis. In a big phallic housing. We never pushed the mics much, so only a few dozen bands used the SVDS microphone. My heart was never really into the mic, actually: guitars were my thing.

Q: Was safety a major selling point back then or was it all about the freedom and convenience the units offered?

Ken Schaffer: It was just a given. But being wireless wasn’t safe for everybody: The Rolling Stones almost lost Bill Wyman during one of the first nights everybody was wireless. Bill was known for standing quite still throughout every set, but once untethered, he actually moved — he walked backwards until he felt clean off the stage in St. Paul, MN and fractured his wrist. (Mathijs: July 10, 1978)

Mathijs

It's amazing how you use AI or just make things up. Again you are wrong so move on.

.......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-01-19 19:01 by TheflyingDutchman.

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Mathijs

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Mathijs

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Mathijs
Jagger's wireless microphone in 1975 was a prototype Nady. Sound and receipt was generally good, but the battery drained within 10 minutes and need to be replaced. That's why he changed to a standard microphone every other song. The wireless systems the Stones experimented with in 1975 and 1976 was the Schaffer-Vega system. But, up to 1978 that system was really flawed and was hardly used. They used this system on the 1978 tours, and changed to Nady on the 1981/1982 tour.

I believe they now use Sony Diversity systems.

Mathijs

It was not Nady. It was Schaffer Vega. Nady didn't exist until the following years.

Ken Schaffer worked with the Stones in 1975 on this

The Nady microphone wasn't commercially available until 1976, the one Jagger used was a prototype not commercially available.

Schaffer Vega only produced wireless guitar systems in 1975 and did not have wireless microphones until 1978.

Nady was based on a companding process that did not need an antenna to broadcast. Shaffer was based on diversity, meaning it was the same system as taxi's used with an antenna to broadcast, but diversity was added to minimize unwanted channel changes and interruptions.

When they changed to Nady on the 1981 tour the sound and receipt was better, but as there was no diversity with a bit of luck all taxi drivers in the area could receive the Stones' signals.

Mathijs

Absolutly wrong. My information is correct. You are completely wrong about the first syystems.

Excerpts from two interviews with Ken Schaffer:

Interview 1:

Ken Schaffer on the 1975 Rolling Stones Tour: Mick was given a wireless microphone — of course, the best money could buy at the time — to run behind the stage a couple of times each night to shake his leg for fans stuck in the booneys. And every night was a disaster. The radio mic sounded horrible, at best, but more often would fade out or pick up police and taxi dispatch calls. So, I’m sitting watching, my jaw agape, thinking, “I can make a better radio than that!” And I could. So I went back to New York and started to fiddle with circuit boards and ideas… the “build a better microphone” idea soon fell away: instead of building a better mousetrap I decided to focus on doing something new, something no one had ever done — to build a wireless system for guitars. There were more technical challenges to that — it was easier to transmit a voice signal than a guitar’s — so I diverted all my attention to that.

Interview 2:

In 1975, Schaffer was hired by the Rolling Stones to find opening acts for the band's American concert tour that year. In the arenas where the Stones played on that tour, tickets were often sold for seats behind the stage.

Ken Schaffer: The people sitting in these seats couldn't see very much, and to accommodate them Mick Jagger would occasionally switch to a wireless microphone and sing from the back of the stage. The microphone he used, like all wireless microphones available at that time, was of poor quality. "Every night, some disaster would happen during the couple of minutes when the wireless mike was being used," Schaffer says. "It would pick up a taxicab or a police car and blast it through the P.A. at ten thousand watts, or the sound would fade out and get fuzzy. At best, it sounded horrible." Schaffer decided that he could do better, and he set out to build not only an improved wireless microphone but also a wireless electric guitar. The guitar was especially appealing to him, because he felt that it would be harder to build, and because no one had ever built one before. "I didn't want to just build a better mousetrap," he says. Schaffer spent about two years experimenting with wireless devices, eventually building what he called the Schaffer-Vega Diversity System.

Q: You also created a wireless microphone soon after – what is different about those units when compared to those made for instrument signals?
Ken Schaffer: Is more a form-factor thing. The front end of the transmitters and back end of the receivers were tweaked to optimize for the differences in the dynamics and attacks of voice compared to guitar signals. Different pre-emphasis and de-emphasis. In a big phallic housing. We never pushed the mics much, so only a few dozen bands used the SVDS microphone. My heart was never really into the mic, actually: guitars were my thing.

Q: Was safety a major selling point back then or was it all about the freedom and convenience the units offered?

Ken Schaffer: It was just a given. But being wireless wasn’t safe for everybody: The Rolling Stones almost lost Bill Wyman during one of the first nights everybody was wireless. Bill was known for standing quite still throughout every set, but once untethered, he actually moved — he walked backwards until he felt clean off the stage in St. Paul, MN and fractured his wrist. (Mathijs: July 10, 1978)

Mathijs

It's amazing how you use AI or just make things up. Again you are wrong so move on.

You are a sad, pathetic loser. But you know this already so I will move on.

Mathijs

Quote
dadrob
The trouble with neon signs and local cab radio for early wireless sucked.

I still use a Line 6 G50 wireless system, that you can be adjusted to sounding, just like wired.
Frankly, to my ears, the difference in sound, both clean and distorted is rather insignificant. These systems improved a lot over the years. No more police.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-01-19 20:51 by TheflyingDutchman.

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
Spud
Some musicians found it easier to adjust to the early wireless transmitters than others.

Not because there was anything wrong with the signal, but because there were no longer the signal losses associated with cables, especially longer ones.

This required EQ adjustment and left many early users thinking that wireless systems had an overly bright, cold and hard sound.

For guitars the wireless systems, especially that of Schaffer, had a huge benefit as the transmitter/receiver had a pre-amp with volume control and this could be used for driving the front of a tube amp harder, resulting in more drive and greater dynamics. Angus Young's secret ingredient to his sound is his old Schaffer units, and the Stones sound of 1978 and 1981/82 was that of Boogie's driven hard by the wireless units. Many guitarists use wireless even in small clubs where you do not need it really just because of the pre-amp.

The Schaffer pre-amp is now also available in a pedal format:

[www.solodallas-europe.com]

Mathijs

Yep, so let's just say they didn't always appeal to the curly lead brigade

Quote
Spud

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
Spud
Some musicians found it easier to adjust to the early wireless transmitters than others.

Not because there was anything wrong with the signal, but because there were no longer the signal losses associated with cables, especially longer ones.

This required EQ adjustment and left many early users thinking that wireless systems had an overly bright, cold and hard sound.

For guitars the wireless systems, especially that of Schaffer, had a huge benefit as the transmitter/receiver had a pre-amp with volume control and this could be used for driving the front of a tube amp harder, resulting in more drive and greater dynamics. Angus Young's secret ingredient to his sound is his old Schaffer units, and the Stones sound of 1978 and 1981/82 was that of Boogie's driven hard by the wireless units. Many guitarists use wireless even in small clubs where you do not need it really just because of the pre-amp.

The Schaffer pre-amp is now also available in a pedal format:

[www.solodallas-europe.com]

Mathijs

Yep, so let's just say they didn't always appeal to the curly lead brigade

If you're looking to muffle your tone than better stick to curly leads!

Mathijs

Yup

Quote
More Hot Rocks

It's amazing how you use AI or just make things up. Again you are wrong so move on.

[www.ultimate-guitar.com]

Mathijs