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DandelionPowderman
Keith on fire during the Chuck Berry jam is not useless to me. Damn, he is on a roll there!

He really is! Apart from that, the jams as a whole show a different side of our band - they are proofs that the Stones are much more than 2 minute pop song wonders... Believe it or not, there are "serious" music freaks out there who still believe otherwise!

Biggest surprise for me is You Gotta Move.. It’s my favorite track/performance on both Earl’s Court and the Paris Show Blu-Ray.

That said, I am now doubly-glad I’m getting a replacement box-set, in addition to the warped vinyl my Blu-Ray goes on the fritz multiple times during the Paris show (not the freeze frames at the end of each song but during the songs)

Maybe it’s the tropical weather we’re experiencing in Alabama (I fear no Fall or winter for us this year!)

Black and Blue 2025 is #3 in the German [www.OffizielleCharts.de] .

..... Hey thats pretty COOl ..... No3 ......



ROCKMAN

I have to say I didn't even listen all the way through the 'jams'. Bored, directionless jams just aren't my... jam.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-11-21 21:38 by peoplewitheyes.

I'm enjoying the new mix. I played around with comparative listening with the 1976 copy, the 1994 Virgin CD, and the Atmos version to pick up on the differences. It was a nice trip and, in any case, a great opportunity to revisit B&B with particular attention. Not that B&B has ever been away from the turntable for very long. It's one of my favorites: a variety of songs, but an album with its own distinct identity.

To each his own, anyway. I bought the vinyl box set but, despite the FNAC offer, it's still waaaay too expensive. Abattoirs is nice, but apart from its sentimental value (my first vision of a RS concert on Antenne 2 back in 1982), the “cleanup” doesn't add much. I adore I Love A Lady, and I'm glad it saw the light of day in a completed form: a direct bridge between B&B and the B-side of TY. As for the jams, to each his own, I like Rotterdam and Freeway, and anyway, they fit well in the package. Hey Negrita from Earl's Court, top!

The album re-enters at #40 in the UK:
[www.officialcharts.com]

From Music Week:
01 19,119 5 Seconds of Summer - EVERYONE'S A STAR! [11,967 CDs, 4,619 vinyl, 391 downloads, 2,142 streaming]
02 17,090 Olivia Dean - The Art of Loving
03 14,171 Taylor Swift - The Life of a Showgirl
04 12,279 D-Block Europe - PTSD 2
05 9,037 Sabrina Carpenter - Man's Best Friend
06 8,587 Lily Allen - West End Girl
07 7,692 Ed Sheeran - +-=÷× (Tour Collection)
08 7,596 The Weeknd - The Highlights
09 7,082 Michael Jackson - The Essential
10 7,074 Fleetwood Mac - 50 Years: Don't Stop

11 7,001 Oasis - Familiar to Millions
12 6,330 Celeste - Woman of Faces
13 6,068 Summer Walker - Finally Over It
14 6,053 NF - FEAR
16 5,772 EsDeeKid - Rebel
17 5,735 Doves - So, Here We Are: Best of Doves
18 5,615 ROSALÍA - LUX
20 5,549 Tears for Fears - Songs from the Big Chair

40 3,074 The Rolling Stones - Black and Blue

"Meanwhile, a new massively expanded super deluxe version of The Rolling Stones’ 13th studio album, Black & Blue, which includes a new Steven Wilson mix of the set, earns the 1976 No.2 album its first chart appearance in more than 49 years (No.40, 3,074 sales)."

Previous Chart peaks in the UK for Deluxe Albums:
2010 - #1 - Exile On Main Street
2011 - #58 - Some Girls
2015 - #7 - Sticky Fingers
2020 - #1 - Goats Head Soup
2021 - #7 - Tattoo You
2025 - #40 - Black and Blue

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DandelionPowderman

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roby
Harvey Mandel, what a great guitarist.

Not my favourite. Drowning in his own effects. He can play, of course, but not my cup of tea. On the Berry jam it's very evident that he was a bad fit for the Stones.

I agree with Bill

«Harvey Mandel had too many effects, echoes and foot pedals. Keith ended up saying: “Bollocks to all that, just play the @#$%& thing!” We weren’t a gimmicks band. We were just messing with people to see how they fitted, really. And no one quite did.

Harvey Mandel used too many electronic effects, which wasn't really Stonesy. He wasn't right at all. He was into his own thing.»

I agree completely that Harvey’s acid guitar sound as readily apparent in the Chuck Berry jam were not a good fit for the band. I’ll grant an exception to his work on Hot Stuff, but just because we’re used to it for 50 years now.

Mandel's work in Hot Stuff... howling like an owl.

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plusplusjames

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DandelionPowderman

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roby
Harvey Mandel, what a great guitarist.

Not my favourite. Drowning in his own effects. He can play, of course, but not my cup of tea. On the Berry jam it's very evident that he was a bad fit for the Stones.

I agree with Bill

«Harvey Mandel had too many effects, echoes and foot pedals. Keith ended up saying: “Bollocks to all that, just play the @#$%& thing!” We weren’t a gimmicks band. We were just messing with people to see how they fitted, really. And no one quite did.

Harvey Mandel used too many electronic effects, which wasn't really Stonesy. He wasn't right at all. He was into his own thing.»

I agree completely that Harvey’s acid guitar sound as readily apparent in the Chuck Berry jam were not a good fit for the band. I’ll grant an exception to his work on Hot Stuff, but just because we’re used to it for 50 years now.

I love his playing on the Chuck Berry jam.Who cares what pedals he used if it is good.Or let’s just go back to acoustic guitars

What Mandel adds to Hot Stuff is unique and appropriate to the song. It's terrific as a 'one-off', but it is not a style or sound that one would appreciate over more than a token track.

Who plays the guitar solos on Built That Way from fully finished outtakes?

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Maindefender
Who plays the guitar solos on Built That Way from fully finished outtakes?

Robert A. Johnson.

Mathijs

I never found Harvey Mandel a convincing blues guitarist. He misses the lyrical touch the true greats have, he's always fiddling his way throughout a song. And whenever a solo misses true inspiration it's an easy fix to add a Leslie or wah to spice it up.

From what we have heard now only Robert A. Johnson and Wayne Perkins would have been a fit for the Stones, but being Americans from the south they just didn't stand the chance against Londoner Ron Wood.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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Maindefender
Who plays the guitar solos on Built That Way from fully finished outtakes?

Robert A. Johnson.

Mathijs

Thanks, lyrically I can see why it got left off but Johnson is solid.

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Mathijs
I never found Harvey Mandel a convincing blues guitarist. He misses the lyrical touch the true greats have, he's always fiddling his way throughout a song. And whenever a solo misses true inspiration it's an easy fix to add a Leslie or wah to spice it up.

From what we have heard now only Robert A. Johnson and Wayne Perkins would have been a fit for the Stones, but being Americans from the south they just didn't stand the chance against Londoner Ron Wood.

Mathijs

I humbly disagree. His early work with Charley Musselwhite is pure Chicago Blues and his vibrato is top tier. You don’t get to play in the South Side of Chicago if you can’t hang, and that was his stomping grounds. His work with Canned Heat and John Mayall is great as well.

Yes, he did get more into funk and guitar trickery later in his career. Some guitarists get bored with the blues, others do not. I think Jagger liked his playing style, but overall he wouldn’t have been a great fit in the band just as Beck wouldn’t have. So I agree there, but he was more than capable.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-11-22 16:58 by TravelinMan.

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs
I never found Harvey Mandel a convincing blues guitarist. He misses the lyrical touch the true greats have, he's always fiddling his way throughout a song. And whenever a solo misses true inspiration it's an easy fix to add a Leslie or wah to spice it up.

From what we have heard now only Robert A. Johnson and Wayne Perkins would have been a fit for the Stones, but being Americans from the south they just didn't stand the chance against Londoner Ron Wood.

Mathijs

I humbly disagree. His early work with Charley Musselwhite is pure Chicago Blues and his vibrato is top tier. You don’t get to play in the South Side of Chicago if you can’t hang, and that was his stomping grounds. His work with Canned Heat and John Mayall is great as well.

Yes, he did get more into funk and guitar trickery later in his career. Some guitarists get bored with the blues, others do not. I think Jagger liked his playing style, but overall he wouldn’t have been a great fit in the band just as Beck wouldn’t have. So I agree there, but he was more than capable.

Mandel's guitar playing with Charley Musselwhite, Canned Heat and John Mayall is much more rock oriented than blues. But even if you consider it blues, I just don't find it top tier. He is no Clapton, Taylor or Green. He's good, but not great. I think his later, late 1970's and early 1980's work is much more interesting as he takes his playing further into some sort of 'rock fusion', where he showed some nice techniques on how to use tapping and effects into guitar playing.

His 'Hot Stuff' solo is great because it's such an oddity, whereas Wayne Perkins solo on 'Worried About You' and 'I Love Ladies' is just utterly tasty from a melodic point of view, much more in the vein of Taylor's melodic touch.

Mathijs

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retired_dog

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DandelionPowderman
Keith on fire during the Chuck Berry jam is not useless to me. Damn, he is on a roll there!

He really is! Apart from that, the jams as a whole show a different side of our band - they are proofs that the Stones are much more than 2 minute pop song wonders... Believe it or not, there are "serious" music freaks out there who still believe otherwise!

What really jumps out at me in the Chick Berry jam is how Keith and Charlie play off of each other. The interplay is a hallmark of the band. I love the way that Charlie drops in behind Keith, pushing him up. Keith’s response is immediate and palpable. It’s a call and response duo solo back and forth between guitar and drums. It is of the essence of the Stones sound and why Exile is so remarkable (in that it is replete with such play-offs).

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs
I never found Harvey Mandel a convincing blues guitarist. He misses the lyrical touch the true greats have, he's always fiddling his way throughout a song. And whenever a solo misses true inspiration it's an easy fix to add a Leslie or wah to spice it up.

From what we have heard now only Robert A. Johnson and Wayne Perkins would have been a fit for the Stones, but being Americans from the south they just didn't stand the chance against Londoner Ron Wood.

Mathijs

I humbly disagree. His early work with Charley Musselwhite is pure Chicago Blues and his vibrato is top tier. You don’t get to play in the South Side of Chicago if you can’t hang, and that was his stomping grounds. His work with Canned Heat and John Mayall is great as well.

Yes, he did get more into funk and guitar trickery later in his career. Some guitarists get bored with the blues, others do not. I think Jagger liked his playing style, but overall he wouldn’t have been a great fit in the band just as Beck wouldn’t have. So I agree there, but he was more than capable.

Mandel's guitar playing with Charley Musselwhite, Canned Heat and John Mayall is much more rock oriented than blues. But even if you consider it blues, I just don't find it top tier. He is no Clapton, Taylor or Green. He's good, but not great. I think his later, late 1970's and early 1980's work is much more interesting as he takes his playing further into some sort of 'rock fusion', where he showed some nice techniques on how to use tapping and effects into guitar playing.

His 'Hot Stuff' solo is great because it's such an oddity, whereas Wayne Perkins solo on 'Worried About You' and 'I Love Ladies' is just utterly tasty from a melodic point of view, much more in the vein of Taylor's melodic touch.

Mathijs

‘Ding, ding, ding’ Mathijs vs TravelinMan, round 2!

Watching the Paris show right now on the Blu-ray Disc. Man, they really were on fire that night. Okay, video quality sucks big time, but I can live with. I think it's much better than the LA Friday recordings, but I have to look that back to be sure. Much tighter, focussed and less sloppy. A joy to watch! Really happy to have this in my collection.
Also I was surprised by th Doby 5.1 mix (don't have Atmos) on the Blu-ray Disc. Won't ben going back to this much, but it's a nice touch to hear the album multichannel.

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jackflash27
Watching the Paris show right now on the Blu-ray Disc. Man, they really were on fire that night. Okay, video quality sucks big time, but I can live with. I think it's much better than the LA Friday recordings, but I have to look that back to be sure. Much tighter, focussed and less sloppy. A joy to watch! Really happy to have this in my collection.
Also I was surprised by th Doby 5.1 mix (don't have Atmos) on the Blu-ray Disc. Won't ben going back to this much, but it's a nice touch to hear the album multichannel.

How's Earls Court on Blu Ray? Better dynamics than the CD Version? Is it Atmos/5.1 or stereo?

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hockenheim95

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jackflash27

How's Earls Court on Blu Ray? Better dynamics than the CD Version? Is it Atmos/5.1 or stereo?

I don't have the CD version but the 5LP version. LP version is okay, but not great. Earls Court on the BR is both in stereo and Atmos. I don't have Atmos, but it plays in 5.1 on my system. My experience from former blurays / DVD's is that the dolby/DTS 5.1 versions of concerts are never better than the stereo version (personal opinion). I just find it too fatiguing to listen to. Most of the time I start in 5.1 and after a few tracks I switch to stereo. Earls court is no exception. The 5.1 sound is quite good actually, but I prefer stereo.

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Mathijs

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TravelinMan

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Mathijs
I never found Harvey Mandel a convincing blues guitarist. He misses the lyrical touch the true greats have, he's always fiddling his way throughout a song. And whenever a solo misses true inspiration it's an easy fix to add a Leslie or wah to spice it up.

From what we have heard now only Robert A. Johnson and Wayne Perkins would have been a fit for the Stones, but being Americans from the south they just didn't stand the chance against Londoner Ron Wood.

Mathijs

I humbly disagree. His early work with Charley Musselwhite is pure Chicago Blues and his vibrato is top tier. You don’t get to play in the South Side of Chicago if you can’t hang, and that was his stomping grounds. His work with Canned Heat and John Mayall is great as well.

Yes, he did get more into funk and guitar trickery later in his career. Some guitarists get bored with the blues, others do not. I think Jagger liked his playing style, but overall he wouldn’t have been a great fit in the band just as Beck wouldn’t have. So I agree there, but he was more than capable.

Mandel's guitar playing with Charley Musselwhite, Canned Heat and John Mayall is much more rock oriented than blues. But even if you consider it blues, I just don't find it top tier. He is no Clapton, Taylor or Green. He's good, but not great. I think his later, late 1970's and early 1980's work is much more interesting as he takes his playing further into some sort of 'rock fusion', where he showed some nice techniques on how to use tapping and effects into guitar playing.

His 'Hot Stuff' solo is great because it's such an oddity, whereas Wayne Perkins solo on 'Worried About You' and 'I Love Ladies' is just utterly tasty from a melodic point of view, much more in the vein of Taylor's melodic touch.

Mathijs

Yeah Wayne Perkins would have fit in well. I actually didn’t hear Cellophane Trousers until somewhat recently and I have to say that really convinced me. Plus he got along with KR.

Ron Wood’s complementary licks on Crazy Mama are great.

Last week, I traveled from Bochum to Munich and back (approx. 1300 km) for work. That was enough time to listen to the fantastic deluxe edition. The new mix of the album is absolutely convincing. The jams are just as good, with Berry Jam and Blues Jam being outstanding. And Earls Court is on a par with the LA concerts (Sympathy for the Devil is the absolute highlight).The sound engineers who worked on it really understand the Stones' music. Who knows what else is slumbering in the archives... I'm now ordering the box set so I can hear and see the Paris show too.

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VOODOOSEBI
I've just listened to the new Black & Blue Dolby Atmos mix on my system for the first time. The Atmos mix is very quiet, which is why I had to turn the music system all the way up. The first three tracks at least sounded interesting and different if you're used to the old recordings. But there is a flaw with Tidal. Memory Motel is the only track (I haven't checked all the live tracks) not in Dolby Atmos but only in stereo. This stereo track feels 40dB louder than the Atmos track and almost shot my system and my ears. At least I hope everything is still okay, my ears are still whistling.

I believe I read somewhere that ATMOS specification forces you to lower volumes, maybe a way to avoid loudness wars. I have also noticed that when switching from stereo content to ATMOS content I have to raise the volume.

I did try Memory Motel on Tidal and indeed, for some reason it's stereo and it is louder than the other tracks that are in ATMOS - but not that much louder. Hope your system is ok and your ears recovered!

The ATMOS mix seems mighty fine, taking full advantage of both the elevation on the front stage and the extended stereo width.

I too never cared too much for 5.1 mixes compared to a good stereo mix, except maybe for some live content, and until I tried it on my Sennheiser sound bar I thought ATMOS was a gimmick. But not anymore, and it's not even a proper ATMOS system. It really brings a lot for musical content and Wild Horses for instance sounds superb in ATMOS.

It's not so much the rear speakers or the elevation effects but the side speakers extend the stereo width and being able to place elements on a square instead of a single line means you don't have to fight so much to fit everything (with EQ and compression) and in the end it can sound more natural when the job is properly done (as is the case on Let It Bleed and this one seems great too).

Wow. I compared the Virgin to the remix. So far I've only focused on Crazy Mama. What a difference. Can hear so much more.

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Big Al
What Mandel adds to Hot Stuff is unique and appropriate to the song. It's terrific as a 'one-off', but it is not a style or sound that one would appreciate over more than a token track.

He also played very nice guitar on Memory Motel.So not a one off.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025-11-23 12:32 by Taylor1.

Wayne is a great player. I imagine his excellent overdub work on the Wailers' Catch A Fire helped get him an invite to the Stones sessions. But Ronnie was the natural choice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-11-23 04:10 by TeddyB1018.

Why haven't they given any interviews or made any TV appearances for this reissue?
The reissue of Exile was almost an event, then less and less so until this one, with the band remaining completely silent.
There would have been many interesting things to say about those sessions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-11-23 11:10 by HardRiffin.