On August 31, 1994, a part of The Rolling Stones back catalog, namely, studio albums from 1971 up to 1989, was reissued in Japan (and around the globe) under distribution of Virgin Records.

The following albums were issued:
1. Sticky Fingers (1971) [VJCP-25111]
2. Exile On Main St. (1972) [VJCP-25112]
3. Goats Head Soup (1973) [VJCP-25113]
4. It’s Only Rock’nRoll (1974) [VJCP-25114]
5. Black And Blue (1976) [VJCP-25115]
6. Some Girls (1978) [VJCP-25116]
7. Emotional Rescue (1980) [VJCP-25117]
8. Tattoo You (1981) [VJCP-25118]
9. Undercover (1983) [VJCP-25119]
10. Dirty Work (1986) [VJCP-25120]
11. Steel Wheels (1989) [VJCP-25121]
These CDs were in print in Japan until 2009. One can find on the secondhand market still sealed discs with extra hype stickers for Japanese legs of Forty Licks 2002-2003 or A Bigger Bang 2005-2006 tours.

Catalogue numbers were presented in a ‘mixed’ format: VJCP-251xx. The first part, the acronym VJCP, belongs to the newer catalogue number style adopted by industry in Japan in the early 90’s. The first two letters (VJ) correspond to Virgin Records; the third (C) stands for 4.7” Compact Disc Digital Audio media, the fourth (P) is an internal company code (not regulated by industry). Generally, letter P was used in Japan for popular and/or rock music. The second part of the catalog number, 251xx, is presented in the older numbering scheme with the first two digits (25) indicating the retail price of 2500¥ and the next three – Virgin Records catalog number.

On March 28, 1998, the set was extended with
12. Flashpoint (1991) [VJCP-25389]
It is not quite clear why ‘Flashpoint’ was issued at regular price of 2500¥, while the other two live albums issued on the same date - Love You Live (2CD) (1977) [VJCP-18024/25] and Still Life (American Concert 1981) (1982) [VJCP-18026] - were added to a special price (1800¥) limited edition to commemorate the visit of The Rolling Stones to Japan during Bridge to Babylon World Tour. In any case, this was the first appearance of the title under Virgin Records in Japan.

Essentially, booklets and back covers/inlays replicate the design that was used by Virgin Records for the whole world but with adaptation to Japanese market. I.e., catalog numbers, manufacturer’s information, and local copyrights were altered. Japanese extras included OBI and accordion folded booklet/poster with an essay about the album in Japanese and lyrics in English and Japanese. Also, CD labels carry two catalog numbers – the first for Japan and the second for the European edition of the title. E.g., VJCP-25111 and CDV 2730 for ‘Sticky Fingers’ (1971). For Japanese discs, unlike the European editions, the timings of the tracks were not printed on the labels. Discs were packed in standard jewel cases with white trays.





Sometimes these discs are unofficially called ‘The Rolling Stones Green OBI series.’ It is because OBIs had a green background, and band’s name was printed in the upper front of OBI. Although, special name was not officially assigned to this set of discs. The information on OBIs is standard and includes details about the album, track list and data for Japanese market. There is one issue for hardcore collectors/purists associated with OBI. The CDs were reissued multiple times. Also, the green color fades under direct sunlight. As a result, it is hard to find on the secondhand market green OBIs with the same color tone for all CDs and/or without color fade on the spines.



Discs for this set were made at Toshiba-EMI Ltd. factory in a city Gotemba, Shizuoka Prefecture, Japan. All CDs have Mastering SID (Source Identification) code printed on the inner mirror band (e.g., IFPI L151, IFPI stands for International Federation of the Phonographic Industry). Mastering SID codes from L151 up to L170 were assigned by IFPI to the abovementioned factory. Mould SID code was imprinted on the plastic hub as IFPI 28xx (where code 28 identifies Toshiba-EMI-Ltd. factory and xx are two numbers or ‘letter/number’ combination that refer to a particular moulding machine, e.g., IFPI 2894 or IFPI 28R4). However, Mould SID code is not present on all CDs. It is often missing on the discs from the first pressing runs. Obviously, in 1994 not all moulding machines at Toshiba factory were updated to the requirements of IFPI.
Matrix string was printed on the inner mirror band in format VJCP-251xx Y Az. Here:
VJCP-251xx – catalog number of the CD, where xx are two numbers (e.g., VJCP-25111);
Y – number of glass master (e.g., 1);
Az – Mother ‘A’, stampler ‘z’(e.g., A1).
There is a barcode on the inner mirror band.
There were multiple pressings from 1994 up till 2009. The CDs prepared from the stamplers that originated from different glass masters have a few minor variations in terms of shape and matrix coding. Discs from the late pressing runs (glass masters with high number, like 5) do not have mother and stampler codes. The width of the outer mirror band for CDs from the early pressing runs (glass masters 1, 2 or 3) is 2.5 mm, while for the next generation (glass masters with high numbers) is only 0.75 mm. Also, there is a difference in the width of the inner mirror band. It is 2.5 mm, for the early pressings vs. 2 mm and a gap that separates the mirror band from the data area for the late pressings. These details reflect the modifications in the technological equipment for glass masters preparation. They have nothing to do with digital material presented on the CDs.



The liner notes for studio albums state the discs were digitally remastered by Bob Ludwig for Gateway Mastering Studios. Remastered using UV22 Super CD Encoding by Apogee Electronics, Santa Monica, California. Apogee UV22 is a unique new process capturing all the fine details of the original analogue master on standard audio equipment.

Technical explanation (based on a note by Barry Diament): UV22 is an algorithm (not a piece of hardware) used for dithering 20 (or 24) bit signals down to the 16-bit CDDA standard. It does not resample or change the sampling rate, only changes the word length. Like many other dither algorithms, it incorporates (one flavor of) noise shaping.

There were no variations/changes in digital content throughout the pressing runs. All Japanese discs but a few exceptions are identical to their EU (Holland-made) Virgin counterparts other than null samples. This issue is purely technical and is associated solely with the settings of the Laser Beam Recorders that were used for preparation of the glass masters.

The exceptions are:
- ‘Exile On Main St.’[VJCP-25112] contains the same mix/mastering but runs a notch slower compared to EU version. The difference is negligible but is detectable by audio tools. The drift is approximately 0.2 milliseconds per 1 minute of play time. This clocking issue is present for all Japanese-made Virgin reissues of the title – VJCP-18012 (1998), VJCP-68032 (1999), TOCP-66452 (2005) and TOCP-66542 (2006). The problem, apparently, is with the copy of the digital master that was supplied to Japan.
- ‘Dirty Work’ [VJCP-25120], Track 11 – Keys To The Highway does not have 3 sec. long glitch (complete silence) between 0:06.35 and 0:09.68 that is present on EU discs pressed in The Netherlands [CDV 2743].

- Flashpoint [VJCP-25389]. Even though this album was issued by Virgin, it originated from tape transfer that was used by CBS back in 1991. Track 17 – Sex Drive is full length album version (5:07) like on CBS CD. However, the digital content of this Japanese Virgin CD is not identical to CBS 1991 version. The mix and equalization are the same. But for Japanese Virgin disc the signal is phase inverted and the program runs a notch faster with respect to CBS CD. The drift is about 0.6 milliseconds per 1 minute of play time. This might be due to CBS-made tape being played back at a slightly different speed on Toshiba equipment. Otherwise, there was a clocking problem with Laser Beam Recorder at Toshiba plant during glass master preparation. CBS CDs ‘Flashpoint’ pressed in Europe [RSR 468135 2] and Japan [SRCS 5470] by Sony are digitally identical other than null samples and stay in perfect sync. Positively, this playback speed difference is Toshiba related production bug. Also, it is to be pointed out that OBI for Flashpoint [VJCP-25389] carries a note with prohibition to export the album abroad Japan (export prohibited products). A possible explanation for this mess is that Virgin remasters of live albums (Love You Live, Still Life and Flashpoint) were not ready yet or the tapes were not available in Japan at the time the production began. According to Felix Aeppli web site Virgin remasters of live albums appeared in Europe on 1998, April 14. I.e., two and a half weeks after the date these albums were released by Virgin in Japan (1998, March 28). Apparently, in Japan they used CBS masters and to avoid confusion set an export prohibition (just in case). Virgin remaster of ‘Flashpoint’, identical to the European 1998 version [CDV 2855], appeared in Japan only on June 30, 1999, as a discs from ‘Rock the 100’ series [TOCP-53025].

Also, a few curiosities associated with ‘Virgin digital remaster’ made by Bob Ludwig should be mentioned. This is applicable to all Virgin CDs, no matter the year of edition or the country of origin. Sorry, a few legends about the ‘superior sound quality of Virgin remasters’ might be destroyed.

Albums Emotional Rescue (1980), Undercover (1983), Dirty Work (1986) and Steel Wheels (1989) issued by Virgin originated from tape transfers that were used in 1986 for production of CBS CDs. Virgin discs are in perfect sync with their CBS counterparts and share the same mix and equalization profiles. As if CBS CDs (or equalized digital production masters prepared by CBS) were used as a starting point for Virgin discs. The difference is mainly in the loudness. Some kind of soft limiter (and, probably, noise shaping) was applied to the CBS digital material to produce Virgin CDs, but hardly more. New digital tape transfers were not made. Virgin CDs of these albums can be described as louder clones of 1986 CBS discs. A downside of soft limiter application is that the loudest peaks were ‘shaved off’ (got flat tops). This is a characteristic feature for all Virgin CDs of The Rolling Stones. Those peaks retain the proper shape on CBS CDs.
Virgin CD Goats Head Soup (1973) also originated from the tape transfer used by CBS. It stays in sync with CBS CD counterpart. However, for this album not only soft limiting was used. The album was re-equalized to some extent. Compared to CBS CD the bass below 200 Hz was slightly reduced, while the mid-range in the vicinity of 2 kHz was enhanced. Also, a kind of noise reduction was applied. All tracks on Virgin CD have a sharp roll-off in frequencies above 10 kHz with respect to CBS disc.
Except for two tracks (Respectable and Shattered) Some Girls (1978) Virgin CD originated from the tape transfer used by CBS too. Virgin CD (but the two tracks mentioned above) stays in perfect sync with CBS disc. Here the situation is like that for Goats Head Soup (1973), but more changes were made. Also, it seems that for this album the work was done on a track-by-track basis. The soft limiter was used for all tracks, but other moves were not identical. For example, a kind of de-essing filter was applied for Miss You. Some Girls (song) got a bass bust (especially by the end of the track). For Far Away Eyes the balance was altered between channels. I.e., the right channel became slightly louder than the left for the second part of the song, while the left was louder in the beginning. For Beast Of Burden likely only soft limiter was used. But not uniformly throughout the song duration. The first 30 seconds of the song were made a bit louder than the rest as if the limiter got adjusted in the process. So, eight out of ten tracks on the album are a mixed bag in terms of equalization, volume and balance adjustments, but still, undoubtedly originated from the tape transfer that was used previously by CBS. Respectable and Shattered came from completely different tape transfer. They are out of sync with their CBS CD counterparts and mastered the whole new way.
Sticky Fingers (1971) came from a new tape transfer and represents a new remaster but for one track - I Got The Blues. That one originated from tape transfer used by CBS. However, it is louder and equalized differently with respect to the counterpart from CBS CD.
Exile On Main St. (1972), It’s Only Rock’NRoll (1974), Black And Blue (1976) and Tattoo You (1981) are new tape transfers, different from those used by CBS (for better or for worse). Only for these albums (and for Sticky Fingers (1971) minus one track) extensive remastering was done.
Goats Head Soup (1973) and Some Girls (1978) are mixed cases with strong ties to the tape transfers used by CBS.
Emotional Rescue (1980), Undercover (1983), Dirty Work (1986) and Steel Wheels (1989) can be described as louder clones of CBS CDs. They stay in perfect sync with CBS discs and share the same mix and equalization but are a bit louder.

Do not trust the linear notes and booklets blindly .



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024-08-31 15:56 by ironbelly.

Nice work, as always. Thank you

Amazing detail...many thanks!

Great read, much appreciated!

wow i wish i was as knowledgable about anything as you are about this stuff

thanks for the interesting read and for starting me on my quest to find and collect the best sounding cd's for the stones

i personally have found that i prefer the cbs over the virgin cd's even the ones created from new tape transfers that you mentioned above

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ProfessorWolf
wow i wish i was as knowledgable about anything as you are about this stuff

thanks for the interesting read and for starting me on my quest to find and collect the best sounding cd's for the stones

i personally have found that i prefer the cbs over the virgin cd's even the ones created from new tape transfers that you mentioned above

You are not alone.

I vaguely remember Mick talking about the early albums, mainly to do with horns, being an issue, EOMS, particularly, and that Ludwig did several remasters of EOMS and they compared them to (apparently a never played) the vinyl original.

I think I read that in GOLDMINE.

And that set a parameter for Ludwig is how it was basically described (was Slave the only track he restored un-edit wise other than the original/not screwed up Star Star? Wasn't Wanna Hold You a little bit longer than the CBS edition?).

To this day I swear the Virgins up through UNDERCOVER sound better, a bit fuller, a little more ass to them, except SOME GIRLS, which never had any, through speakers and headphones, than the CBS editions. I noticed zero difference with DW and SW.

Huh. That's a bit of a con, huh.

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GasLightStreet
I vaguely remember Mick talking about the early albums, mainly to do with horns, being an issue, EOMS, particularly, and that Ludwig did several remasters of EOMS and they compared them to (apparently a never played) the vinyl original.

I think I read that in GOLDMINE.

And that set a parameter for Ludwig is how it was basically described (was Slave the only track he restored un-edit wise other than the original/not screwed up Star Star? Wasn't Wanna Hold You a little bit longer than the CBS edition?).

To this day I swear the Virgins up through UNDERCOVER sound better, a bit fuller, a little more ass to them, except SOME GIRLS, which never had any, through speakers and headphones, than the CBS editions. I noticed zero difference with DW and SW.

Huh. That's a bit of a con, huh.

That story of EOMS remastering is told by Don Was here (starting roughly 1:01:30)
[www.youtube.com]
It might be true or it might be a legend .

Virgin CDs have only two tracks that are much longer compared to CBS:
Luxury 5:01 vs 4:31 on CBS
Slave 6:32 vs 4:48 on CBS

Star Star was not censored on CBS CD. It is not censored on Virgin. Censored version in digital appeared only in 2009 for Polydor remaster. Actually, the censorship was applied for two spots. But there is a version where it is used only at one spot. I.e. there are two Polydor 2009 censored versions.

Wanna Hold You, short version, 3:16 was used only for 1983 EMI [CDP 7 46024 2] and 1984 Toshiba-EMI [CP35-3087] discs. CBS CD already had long version 3:52. It is exactly the same (other than loudness) on Virgin CD. Short version of the track appeared again in 2011 for Japanese only SACD-SHM that contained flat transfers of the original master tapes.

'Virgins sound better' is a misovergeneralization. All sets (CBS, Virgin, flat transfers) have good and not so good discs. A perfect set that contained all the best sounding discs does not exist. Virgins are a bit louder compared to CBS and some of them have a bit more bass. This tricks a lot of people.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024-09-01 19:00 by ironbelly.

WOW! Great read Ironbelly!
A big thank you!!

ironbelly! Thank you!
you're a force for good!

Quote
ironbelly


'Virgins sound better' is a misovergeneralization. All sets (CBS, Virgin, flat transfers) have good and not so good discs. A perfect set that contained all the best sounding discs does not exist. Virgins are a bit louder compared to CBS and some of them have a bit more bass. This tricks a lot of people.

I imagine you have a list in mind of your favorite Rolling Stones albums on CD.

As written in your 1st post of this thread, so CDs can change depending on the song (I Got the Blues, Respectable...).

As you have educated us before on the ABKCO catalog, there are differences in the albums on CD (London, POCD, Remastered Series, etc...). That's another topic. Just thought I'd mention it because of what the Professor (not you ;0) said above.

I still haven't found any vinyl transfers from the Teldec 1970's compilations. I've seen supposedly digital versions of these LPs, but they weren't vinyl rips, just a recreation of the same songs from other albums.

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ironbelly
Star Star was not censored on CBS CD. It is not censored on Virgin. Censored version in digital appeared only in 2009 for Polydor remaster. Actually, the censorship was applied for two spots. But there is a version where it is used only at one spot. I.e. there are two Polydor 2009 censored versions.

I think the censored Star Star I had was on vinyl but I don't know what edition it was, I lost a lot of my vinyl years ago.

The recent TIME WAITS FOR NO ONE CD has the censored version, which, when I was listening to it after it showed up made me laugh.

The original censored version was on US- Vinyl, the rest of the world could live with an uncensored version with very few exceptions ( heard an old censored South African vinyl ..)

Great info!!

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ironbelly

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GasLightStreet
I vaguely remember Mick talking about the early albums, mainly to do with horns, being an issue, EOMS, particularly, and that Ludwig did several remasters of EOMS and they compared them to (apparently a never played) the vinyl original.

I think I read that in GOLDMINE.

And that set a parameter for Ludwig is how it was basically described (was Slave the only track he restored un-edit wise other than the original/not screwed up Star Star? Wasn't Wanna Hold You a little bit longer than the CBS edition?).

To this day I swear the Virgins up through UNDERCOVER sound better, a bit fuller, a little more ass to them, except SOME GIRLS, which never had any, through speakers and headphones, than the CBS editions. I noticed zero difference with DW and SW.

Huh. That's a bit of a con, huh.

That story of EOMS remastering is told by Don Was here (starting roughly 1:01:30)
[www.youtube.com]
It might be true or it might be a legend .

Virgin CDs have only two tracks that are much longer compared to CBS:
Luxury 5:01 vs 4:31 on CBS
Slave 6:32 vs 4:48 on CBS

Star Star was not censored on CBS CD. It is not censored on Virgin. Censored version in digital appeared only in 2009 for Polydor remaster. Actually, the censorship was applied for two spots. But there is a version where it is used only at one spot. I.e. there are two Polydor 2009 censored versions.

Wanna Hold You, short version, 3:16 was used only for 1983 EMI [CDP 7 46024 2] and 1984 Toshiba-EMI [CP35-3087] discs. CBS CD already had long version 3:52. It is exactly the same (other than loudness) on Virgin CD. Short version of the track appeared again in 2011 for Japanese only SACD-SHM that contained flat transfers of the original master tapes.

'Virgins sound better' is a misovergeneralization. All sets (CBS, Virgin, flat transfers) have good and not so good discs. A perfect set that contained all the best sounding discs does not exist. Virgins are a bit louder compared to CBS and some of them have a bit more bass. This tricks a lot of people.

There was also something different with the Virgin SG version of "Before they make me run". Is that one not longer, or a different version, I can't remember exactly what was different about it.

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GJV

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ironbelly

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GasLightStreet
I vaguely remember Mick talking about the early albums, mainly to do with horns, being an issue, EOMS, particularly, and that Ludwig did several remasters of EOMS and they compared them to (apparently a never played) the vinyl original.

I think I read that in GOLDMINE.

And that set a parameter for Ludwig is how it was basically described (was Slave the only track he restored un-edit wise other than the original/not screwed up Star Star? Wasn't Wanna Hold You a little bit longer than the CBS edition?).

To this day I swear the Virgins up through UNDERCOVER sound better, a bit fuller, a little more ass to them, except SOME GIRLS, which never had any, through speakers and headphones, than the CBS editions. I noticed zero difference with DW and SW.

Huh. That's a bit of a con, huh.

That story of EOMS remastering is told by Don Was here (starting roughly 1:01:30)
[www.youtube.com]
It might be true or it might be a legend .

Virgin CDs have only two tracks that are much longer compared to CBS:
Luxury 5:01 vs 4:31 on CBS
Slave 6:32 vs 4:48 on CBS

Star Star was not censored on CBS CD. It is not censored on Virgin. Censored version in digital appeared only in 2009 for Polydor remaster. Actually, the censorship was applied for two spots. But there is a version where it is used only at one spot. I.e. there are two Polydor 2009 censored versions.

Wanna Hold You, short version, 3:16 was used only for 1983 EMI [CDP 7 46024 2] and 1984 Toshiba-EMI [CP35-3087] discs. CBS CD already had long version 3:52. It is exactly the same (other than loudness) on Virgin CD. Short version of the track appeared again in 2011 for Japanese only SACD-SHM that contained flat transfers of the original master tapes.

'Virgins sound better' is a misovergeneralization. All sets (CBS, Virgin, flat transfers) have good and not so good discs. A perfect set that contained all the best sounding discs does not exist. Virgins are a bit louder compared to CBS and some of them have a bit more bass. This tricks a lot of people.

There was also something different with the Virgin SG version of "Before they make me run". Is that one not longer, or a different version, I can't remember exactly what was different about it.

No. Not on CD. Before They Make Me Run on Virgin CD originated from CBS tape transfer. Same mix, perfect cync. It got the standard soft limiting (~1.6 dB louder than CBS) and a bit of equalization (small additions around 2kHz and 10kHz). Other than that - a few loudest peaks were shaved off (as usual for Ludwig's Virgin remaster).

Alternative mix was on 7" promo single.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-09-04 19:42 by ironbelly.

Thank you, great work!
On the Virgin "Flashpoint" (I have the version Made in EU) are some additional words by Mick before Jumpin' Jack Flash that are not on the CBS version.

Sex Drive on the Virgin FLASHPOINT is different than the CBS, I forget which version it is since on the Virgin as there were several but I do remember it's available on the single.

What a strange thing to do.

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wiredallnight
Thank you, great work!
On the Virgin "Flashpoint" (I have the version Made in EU) are some additional words by Mick before Jumpin' Jack Flash that are not on the CBS version.

Correct. It is on Japanese TOCP-53025 too. But technically (the position of the cue point), it is the end of Brown Sugar .

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GasLightStreet
Sex Drive on the Virgin FLASHPOINT is different than the CBS, I forget which version it is since on the Virgin as there were several but I do remember it's available on the single.

What a strange thing to do.

CBS CD = original album version 5:08
Virgin CD = single edit 4:28. It was on CBS CD single marked as 'Single Edit'. There are 4 more versions of that track if I remember correctly
- Dirty Hands Mix
- Dirty Hands Mix Extended Edit (Only, 2014 Universal Music promo compilation, probably, released by mistake).
- Club Version
- Edited Club Version (on Japanese only CBS single)

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ironbelly

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wiredallnight
Thank you, great work!
On the Virgin "Flashpoint" (I have the version Made in EU) are some additional words by Mick before Jumpin' Jack Flash that are not on the CBS version.

Correct. It is on Japanese TOCP-53025 too. But technically (the position of the cue point), it is the end of Brown Sugar .

Quote
GasLightStreet
Sex Drive on the Virgin FLASHPOINT is different than the CBS, I forget which version it is since on the Virgin as there were several but I do remember it's available on the single.

What a strange thing to do.

CBS CD = original album version 5:08
Virgin CD = single edit 4:28. It was on CBS CD single marked as 'Single Edit'. There are 4 more versions of that track if I remember correctly
- Dirty Hands Mix
- Dirty Hands Mix Extended Edit (Only, 2014 Universal Music promo compilation, probably, released by mistake).
- Club Version
- Edited Club Version (on Japanese only CBS single)

Sex Drive on the Virgin edition I have is the 5:04 Club Version.

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GasLightStreet

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ironbelly

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wiredallnight
Thank you, great work!
On the Virgin "Flashpoint" (I have the version Made in EU) are some additional words by Mick before Jumpin' Jack Flash that are not on the CBS version.

Correct. It is on Japanese TOCP-53025 too. But technically (the position of the cue point), it is the end of Brown Sugar .

Quote
GasLightStreet
Sex Drive on the Virgin FLASHPOINT is different than the CBS, I forget which version it is since on the Virgin as there were several but I do remember it's available on the single.

What a strange thing to do.

CBS CD = original album version 5:08
Virgin CD = single edit 4:28. It was on CBS CD single marked as 'Single Edit'. There are 4 more versions of that track if I remember correctly
- Dirty Hands Mix
- Dirty Hands Mix Extended Edit (Only, 2014 Universal Music promo compilation, probably, released by mistake).
- Club Version
- Edited Club Version (on Japanese only CBS single)

Sex Drive on the Virgin edition I have is the 5:04 Club Version.

Nope. That is album version.
Sex Drive Club version from CBS single 6:00
Sex Drive Edited Club Version from Japanese only CD single 4:37

Sex Drive CBS album version 5:07 or 5:08 (depending on how your player counts the gaps). If it shows 5:04 - the gaps were not taken into account.

Either you have a rare early pressing that is of CBS source (not an impossible case) or you are referring to discogs entry for US disc. Entries for the US discs on discogs contain error for that particular track. I.e. they list timing of the tracks for CBS disc instead of Virgin. Can you extract TOC and peak levels for your disc using EAC or similar software?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2024-09-04 23:47 by ironbelly.

Never understood why they used the single version on 94 Flashpoint.

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ironbelly

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GasLightStreet

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ironbelly

Quote
wiredallnight
Thank you, great work!
On the Virgin "Flashpoint" (I have the version Made in EU) are some additional words by Mick before Jumpin' Jack Flash that are not on the CBS version.

Correct. It is on Japanese TOCP-53025 too. But technically (the position of the cue point), it is the end of Brown Sugar .

Quote
GasLightStreet
Sex Drive on the Virgin FLASHPOINT is different than the CBS, I forget which version it is since on the Virgin as there were several but I do remember it's available on the single.

What a strange thing to do.

CBS CD = original album version 5:08
Virgin CD = single edit 4:28. It was on CBS CD single marked as 'Single Edit'. There are 4 more versions of that track if I remember correctly
- Dirty Hands Mix
- Dirty Hands Mix Extended Edit (Only, 2014 Universal Music promo compilation, probably, released by mistake).
- Club Version
- Edited Club Version (on Japanese only CBS single)

Sex Drive on the Virgin edition I have is the 5:04 Club Version.

Nope. That is album version.
Sex Drive Club version from CBS single 6:00
Sex Drive Edited Club Version from Japanese only CD single 4:37

Sex Drive CBS album version 5:07 or 5:08 (depending on how your player counts the gaps). If it shows 5:04 - the gaps were not taken into account.

Either you have a rare early pressing that is of CBS source (not an impossible case) or you are referring to discogs entry for US disc. Entries for the US discs on discogs contain error for that particular track. I.e. they list timing of the tracks for CBS disc instead of Virgin. Can you extract TOC and peak levels for your disc using EAC or similar software?

I don't have anything at the moment computer wise for downloading CDs, parts of it are in a box somewhere.

I looked at the liner note myself from the CD - 5:07.

I just pulled out F+C and that is the album version at 5:07.

I can't find the standard CD (jewel) original issue, it's somewhere, but I remember it being the same version as F+C.

The Virgin reissue:

I found the CD single and guess what? The single edit is just an edited version of, it sounds to me like a different edit of the Dirty Hands mix, which is 4:42, starts exactly the same as the Club Version - and that's, I'm guessing, is what is on the Virgin (I had to play the song because I only have a boom box at the moment and of course it's the last track so - I listened to the Club Version and it's a slightly different mix than, oh come on, how dumb, huh).

When I got the Virgin back whenever it came out I listened to the entire album and that surprised me with the

HEYYYY beginning - the video version. Weird that the single edit is not an edit of the LP version - it's an edited down version of the club remix.

The CBS LP version starts with the snare, then horns.

So, ha ha, who did that? Was someone at Virgin being cheeky? Because, exactly like the CBS liner notes, it says 5:07! Bob Ludwig mastered the 1991 original.

Trying to remember when Virgin reissued SHADE, SUCKING, LYL, SL and F - I think I got SHADE and SUCKING in 2005. I thought some were put out earlier for some reason, maybe the live albums were reissued earlier. @#$%&.

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GasLightStreet

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ironbelly

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GasLightStreet

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ironbelly

Quote
wiredallnight
Thank you, great work!
On the Virgin "Flashpoint" (I have the version Made in EU) are some additional words by Mick before Jumpin' Jack Flash that are not on the CBS version.

Correct. It is on Japanese TOCP-53025 too. But technically (the position of the cue point), it is the end of Brown Sugar .

Quote
GasLightStreet
Sex Drive on the Virgin FLASHPOINT is different than the CBS, I forget which version it is since on the Virgin as there were several but I do remember it's available on the single.

What a strange thing to do.

CBS CD = original album version 5:08
Virgin CD = single edit 4:28. It was on CBS CD single marked as 'Single Edit'. There are 4 more versions of that track if I remember correctly
- Dirty Hands Mix
- Dirty Hands Mix Extended Edit (Only, 2014 Universal Music promo compilation, probably, released by mistake).
- Club Version
- Edited Club Version (on Japanese only CBS single)

Sex Drive on the Virgin edition I have is the 5:04 Club Version.

Nope. That is album version.
Sex Drive Club version from CBS single 6:00
Sex Drive Edited Club Version from Japanese only CD single 4:37

Sex Drive CBS album version 5:07 or 5:08 (depending on how your player counts the gaps). If it shows 5:04 - the gaps were not taken into account.

Either you have a rare early pressing that is of CBS source (not an impossible case) or you are referring to discogs entry for US disc. Entries for the US discs on discogs contain error for that particular track. I.e. they list timing of the tracks for CBS disc instead of Virgin. Can you extract TOC and peak levels for your disc using EAC or similar software?

I don't have anything at the moment computer wise for downloading CDs, parts of it are in a box somewhere.

I looked at the liner note myself from the CD - 5:07.

I just pulled out F+C and that is the album version at 5:07.

I can't find the standard CD (jewel) original issue, it's somewhere, but I remember it being the same version as F+C.

The Virgin reissue:

I found the CD single and guess what? The single edit is just an edited version of, it sounds to me like a different edit of the Dirty Hands mix, which is 4:42, starts exactly the same as the Club Version - and that's, I'm guessing, is what is on the Virgin (I had to play the song because I only have a boom box at the moment and of course it's the last track so - I listened to the Club Version and it's a slightly different mix than, oh come on, how dumb, huh).

When I got the Virgin back whenever it came out I listened to the entire album and that surprised me with the

HEYYYY beginning - the video version. Weird that the single edit is not an edit of the LP version - it's an edited down version of the club remix.

The CBS LP version starts with the snare, then horns.

So, ha ha, who did that? Was someone at Virgin being cheeky? Because, exactly like the CBS liner notes, it says 5:07! Bob Ludwig mastered the 1991 original.

Trying to remember when Virgin reissued SHADE, SUCKING, LYL, SL and F - I think I got SHADE and SUCKING in 2005. I thought some were put out earlier for some reason, maybe the live albums were reissued earlier. @#$%&.

Guess, I have to apologize. You are right, the liner notes for Virgin CD has Sex Drive marked as 5:04 (in Europe) and 5:07 (in Japan). My fault, I rarely pay attention to linear notes, they are full of mistakes. However, I checked a few discs of Flashpoint I have in hands

Europe
CBS RSR 468135 2 - Sex Drive is album version 5:07
Virgin CDV 2855 - Sex Drive is single edit 4:28. The one I have is from stampler EMI UDEN 8456702 @ 1 1-1-5-NL, i.e. 1 glass master, 1 father, 1 mother, 5 stampler. Pretty much close to the 1st pressing. Thus, in Europe single edit was included initially.

Japan
CBS SRCS 5470 - Sex Drive is album version 5:08 (probably different gap at the end of the CD compared to Europe)
Virgin VJCP-25389 - Sex Drive is album version 5:07. This one from 1998 is clearly based on CBS tape.
Virgin TOCP-53025 - Sex Drive is single version 4:28. This disc from 1999 is digital clone to European Virgin CDV 2855.

USA
CBS Flashpoint + Collectibles - Sex Drive is album version 5:07.
Virgin 7243 8 45670 2 6 - Sex Drive is single version 4:28. Matrix for this disc is 724384567026 1-0-1 MASTERED BY EMI MFG. Guess, it is an early pressing and it contains single version (no matter what is written in booklet).

Ludwig's mastering is acknowledged in European booklet as
CBS: Mastered at Masterdisc by Bob Ludwig.
Virgin: Originally mastered at Masterdisc by Bob Ludwig. Digitally remastered by Bob Ludwig at Gateway Mastering Studios.

Japan
CBS: Mastered at Masterdisc by Bob Ludwig.
Virgin: Originally mastered at Masterdisc by Bob Ludwig. (no word about remastering)

Looks like Virgin made a copy-paste job. Well, they re-shuffle pictures in the booklet a bit too.

Do not trust blindly to what is written in booklets .

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ironbelly

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GasLightStreet

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ironbelly

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GasLightStreet

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ironbelly

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wiredallnight
Thank you, great work!
On the Virgin "Flashpoint" (I have the version Made in EU) are some additional words by Mick before Jumpin' Jack Flash that are not on the CBS version.

Correct. It is on Japanese TOCP-53025 too. But technically (the position of the cue point), it is the end of Brown Sugar .

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GasLightStreet
Sex Drive on the Virgin FLASHPOINT is different than the CBS, I forget which version it is since on the Virgin as there were several but I do remember it's available on the single.

What a strange thing to do.

CBS CD = original album version 5:08
Virgin CD = single edit 4:28. It was on CBS CD single marked as 'Single Edit'. There are 4 more versions of that track if I remember correctly
- Dirty Hands Mix
- Dirty Hands Mix Extended Edit (Only, 2014 Universal Music promo compilation, probably, released by mistake).
- Club Version
- Edited Club Version (on Japanese only CBS single)

Sex Drive on the Virgin edition I have is the 5:04 Club Version.

Nope. That is album version.
Sex Drive Club version from CBS single 6:00
Sex Drive Edited Club Version from Japanese only CD single 4:37

Sex Drive CBS album version 5:07 or 5:08 (depending on how your player counts the gaps). If it shows 5:04 - the gaps were not taken into account.

Either you have a rare early pressing that is of CBS source (not an impossible case) or you are referring to discogs entry for US disc. Entries for the US discs on discogs contain error for that particular track. I.e. they list timing of the tracks for CBS disc instead of Virgin. Can you extract TOC and peak levels for your disc using EAC or similar software?

I don't have anything at the moment computer wise for downloading CDs, parts of it are in a box somewhere.

I looked at the liner note myself from the CD - 5:07.

I just pulled out F+C and that is the album version at 5:07.

I can't find the standard CD (jewel) original issue, it's somewhere, but I remember it being the same version as F+C.

The Virgin reissue:

I found the CD single and guess what? The single edit is just an edited version of, it sounds to me like a different edit of the Dirty Hands mix, which is 4:42, starts exactly the same as the Club Version - and that's, I'm guessing, is what is on the Virgin (I had to play the song because I only have a boom box at the moment and of course it's the last track so - I listened to the Club Version and it's a slightly different mix than, oh come on, how dumb, huh).

When I got the Virgin back whenever it came out I listened to the entire album and that surprised me with the

HEYYYY beginning - the video version. Weird that the single edit is not an edit of the LP version - it's an edited down version of the club remix.

The CBS LP version starts with the snare, then horns.

So, ha ha, who did that? Was someone at Virgin being cheeky? Because, exactly like the CBS liner notes, it says 5:07! Bob Ludwig mastered the 1991 original.

Trying to remember when Virgin reissued SHADE, SUCKING, LYL, SL and F - I think I got SHADE and SUCKING in 2005. I thought some were put out earlier for some reason, maybe the live albums were reissued earlier. @#$%&.

Guess, I have to apologize. You are right, the liner notes for Virgin CD has Sex Drive marked as 5:04 (in Europe) and 5:07 (in Japan). My fault, I rarely pay attention to linear notes, they are full of mistakes.

Looks like Virgin made a copy-paste job. Well, they re-shuffle pictures in the booklet a bit too.

Do not trust blindly to what is written in booklets .

You said it could be different so... and I didn't edit my comment fully, I got sidetracked - it's my belief that the single edit, which is on the Virgin LP, is just an edit of the Dirty Hands mix - the mix sounds identical where as the Club Version is slightly different.

Ha ha. So far, aside from Ludwig restoring Slave and Luxury, right?, and was Fingerprint's speed fixed?, whatever dialog Mick says before or after Brown Sugar (which is that the ridiculous 'Let's rock this to the max' comment as I recall), Sex Drive on the Virgin album is the only song that's actually different from the original issues in regard to its mix, not edit.

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GasLightStreet
You said it could be different so... and I didn't edit my comment fully, I got sidetracked - it's my belief that the single edit, which is on the Virgin LP, is just an edit of the Dirty Hands mix - the mix sounds identical where as the Club Version is slightly different.

Ha ha. So far, aside from Ludwig restoring Slave and Luxury, right?, and was Fingerprint's speed fixed?, whatever dialog Mick says before or after Brown Sugar (which is that the ridiculous 'Let's rock this to the max' comment as I recall), Sex Drive on the Virgin album is the only song that's actually different from the original issues in regard to its mix, not edit.

Sex Drive single edit starts with HEEEY. Vocal enters in ~0:09. Aside the tonality the basic track is close to Sex Drive album version (the one that starts with drum bit). There vocal also enters at that spot (0:08-0:09).
Sex Drive Club Version (and Edited Club Version) also start with HEEEY. But vocal enters at ~0:14. There is an extra loop inserted between 0:08 and 0:14. The basic track here is similar Sex Drive Dirty Hands Mix (vocal enters at ~0:14). But Dirty Hands Mix starts with drum bit, like the CBS Album Version.
So it seems to be opposite. Basic tracks for CBS Album Version and Virgin Single Edit are similar. Dirty Hands and Club versions are the other pair of edits.

Ludwig did not restore the playback for Fingerprint File. That was done only in 2011 for flat transfers from the original master tapes.

Ironbelly, thank you for this excellent post. Very informative.
Do you know anything about this boxset released in 2005 in Japan ?
[www.discogs.com]

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kowalski
Ironbelly, thank you for this excellent post. Very informative.
Do you know anything about this boxset released in 2005 in Japan ?
[www.discogs.com]

You are welcome.

That box was issued together with A Bigger Bang CD [TOCP-66440] on August 31, 2005. It was used to promote that album and the start of A Bigger Bang Tour. Only 10000 boxes were made. It is very nice collector's toy. The packaging is outstanding.

The albums included in the box were the same as for Collector’s Edition and 25th Anniversary of Virgin Records sets. I.e. eight studio albums from Sticky Fingers (1971) to Tattoo You (1981). Additional extras included a special OBI for the box set and a calendar. OBI for the box set has a misprint. The release date for Black And Blue is marked as 1975 instead of 1976. Some boxes came with an extra hype sticker for a lottery that was associated with the launch of the Japanese leg of A Bigger Bang Tour (those stickers were attached later, in the late 2005 or early 2006).

The content of the packaging for the CDs repeated those of 25th Anniversary of Virgin Records editions [VJCP-68031] – [VJCP-68038]. These were mini-LP replicas with some extras included. However, catalogue numbers were altered and new green-and-red 'wrap OBI' were used.

The packaging for individual discs are
- Sticky Fingers (1971). The cover was glued in such a way that the sheet with the picture of the panties is inside the sleeve and is visible only partially. This is different from Collector’s Edition 1994 semi-gatefold sleeve. The loading of the CD was from the top side of the sleeve, which is kind of unusual. The zipper has YKK logo (like for Japanese LP), not a ‘no-name’ like for Collector’s Edition 1994. Included was a card that replicates the original inner sleeve. Additionally, there was a protective transparent plastic sheet. It was placed between the front cover and the outer plastic sleeve to prevent damage to the outer sleeve and the neighboring disc due to the zipper.
- Exile On Main St. (1972). Gatefold paper sleeve and an inner sleeve replica for the first LP. The inner sleeve replica for the second LP was presented as a card. Also, included was a mini replica of 12 postcards.
- Goats Head Soup (1973). Gatefold paper sleeve, a replica of the original ‘goats head’ inset and a card that replicates the inner sleeve.
- It’s Only Rock’nRoll (1974). Paper sleeve and a replica of the original inner sleeve.
- Black And Blue (1976). Gatefold paper sleeve, and a replica of the original inner sleeve.
- Some Girls (1978) paper sleeve with cuts for faces and inner sleeve. Not all faces are preset on the inner sleeve due to copyrights issues.
- Emotional Rescue (1980). Paper sleeve, a replica of thermo-poster.
- Tattoo You (1981) paper sleeve, a replica of the original inner sleeve, and a replica of a poster that accompanied the first edition of Japanese LP.

The discs were digital clones to their counterparts from VJCP-6803x or VJCP-251xx series (other than null samples). I.e., these are Virgin remasters, but EOMS has the usual Japanese playback speed problem mentioned for VJCP-25112. Even more, discs for this box were pressed from glass masters that were prepared for VJCP-6803x set. I.e., Sticky Fingers [TOCP-66451] was pressed from glass master VJCP-68031 4 (the 4th glass master was usued). Discs were pressed by Toshiba plant. Mould SID codes (IFPI 28xx) and Mastering SID codes (IFPI L15y).

Be aware that individual discs from this box were bootlegged by different East Asian and Russian companies and sold separately. Although, the design and the color scheme of the sleeves were faithfully reproduced by the bootleggers there are numerous ‘tiny details’ that allow to distinguish the official release from counterfeit.

The first one is OBI. The original release came with OBI that was wrapped around paper sleeve; it was in the shape of a loop. The counterfeit version came with a usual OBI, a solid piece of paper, with printed front, spine and back sides.

There are also differences in the print quality for the CD label and the shape of the CD. The official release does not have areas of clear plastic other than around the central hole. The counterfeit has a narrow ring around the hub. These are the most obvious markers. For sure, checking the matrix of the CD is the best way to distinguish between the official release and the counterfeit. But this option might be unavailable for internet purchase.

Thank you so much.
I was wondering about the mastering of these CDs but I understand it's the same as the original Virgin CDs.

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kowalski
Thank you so much.
I was wondering about the mastering of these CDs but I understand it's the same as the original Virgin CDs.

Virgin remasters are the same for the whole world. There are a few minor (almost insignificant) differences. But overall, exotic pressings are for those who collect them. Otherwise, any edition will do. Here is the list of Japanese.




Jump Back, the compilation that precedes Virgin remasters is a kind of a mess. It is a very funny case, because it is full of tracks with unique mastering not available on regular Virgin CDs.
You can check here for Jump Back
[forums.stevehoffman.tv]