[www.thenation.com]

I love it when serious musicians talk about the Stones in a serious way, but … sigh. Charlie’s omitted high-hat is overhyped. That’s a very minor part of what made Charlie sound like Charlie. Great stuff in here, otherwise.

"Some cannot forgive the Stones for emulating Chicago blues records—many of them featuring Fred Below—at a talented-amateur level as they ascended to world domination"
Some good stuff from Steve, but the Stones' first album is anything but 'talented amateur level, Ethan!
And Charlie, and the band never stopped extolling the genius of their inspirations.
It's also an irritating and untrue cliche to claim that Chuck, Steve and Daryl do 'all the heavy lifting' at a concert.
Still, a nice read...!

Heavy lifting? Isn't that Keith and Ronnie and Jones and Jordan? I don't think keyboards are heavy lifting.

Charlie's hi-hat gap didn't start until... it's not on any of the songs on SOME GIRLS except maybe Shattered - but he did it on that tour.

Indian Girl is the first audible hi-hat gap I can find. It's difficult to tell if it's on anything on SG but often it's audible during the snare which is obvious on some of the ER tracks.

The writer doesn't seem to know, somehow, that the artists the Stones covered were credited on releases and they (or their estates) have made a tad bit more money than they did just on their own.

I’ve wanted to say something to Steve Jordan for a while now, and that is simply - Thank You.

He took a great deal of criticism when he stepped up after Charlie died. With tens of thousands of grief-stricken fans, some couldn’t help but direct but their grief at him, which was unfair. But the Stones had to do the tour, and he was not only Charlie’s pick, he was family. He’d played with Mick earlier, played with Keith for decades, he was trusted. For years, ‘Keith's side’ of the stage was right in front of Charlie - he stuck tight to him. I’m not sure how Keith would have fared on tour without a similar rock behind him while he worked through his grief.

I’m not a musician, so can’t hear some of the subtle differences others might. To me it seems that Steve honours Charlie and his style without trying to be him. He’s very reserved on stage, no big bows during the intros, I think he tries to just blend in. But… it took a massive pair to take that seat. I really don’t think they could have continued touring with anyone else. And he’s damn good. So…


Thank you, Steve. Thank you.

.................hmmmm..........I didn't read the article, and will rewrite this after I do.

...........So my opinion on the boys from a 12 years old point of view, when I purchased "Out Of Our Heads".


.............Stealing from the blues artists????. what a bunch of crap. The Stones emulated (in the sense of "honored") the blues from the very beginning, and didn't hide from it. The Stones played the Shindig TV show in 1965, and requested to have Howlin' Wolf on the show!.......How awkward was that to screaming teenage girls, not to mention the production crew.

.............earlier in 1964, the Stones went to Chicago, and recorded 12x5, which included 2120 South Michigan Ave, the address of Chess Records.The producer(s) of the album coax them into giving it there all, and got a fantastic album out of them!

....On and on through history, popular music has been handed down to the next generation, and it is up to the listener to decide if they want to explore the original versions, and yes, there are artists that lived off of cover versions
Linda Ronstadt, Joan Jett (to some degree),, and so on. I don't fault either one b/c they have shown there own professionalism, and talent.




............Then we got ELVIS. Again, a very similar story to the Stones. (except---He lived in the integrated south), was totally blown away by the blues and R' n B, and was forever criticized for redoing the songs. The few times that Elvis was asked about the covers he made, he was very clear about it, and gave credit to all of the original singers(he thought of Fats Domino as "The King Of Rock' n Roll").

RELATED, slightly off topic:
When the ELVIS movie came out a few years back, I had to go to the preview, as I didn't expect it to last a week, It stayed in the theaters for, just about 4 months, and actually got a younger demographic also.

I will tell you who "stole" music.....Led Zeppelin, and the "artists" that are (stealing) music by sampling and trying not to get caught(Robin Thicke,PHARRELL, de La SOUL, and so on Sadly, by appearing in court, the jurors are getting "starry-eyed",sand I really hope that the copyright laws in the USA don't get watered down!

The one and only Charlie Watts, and his great replacement, Steve Jordan in my next post.

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GasLightStreet
Heavy lifting? Isn't that Keith and Ronnie and Jones and Jordan? I don't think keyboards are heavy lifting.

Charlie's hi-hat gap didn't start until... it's not on any of the songs on SOME GIRLS except maybe Shattered - but he did it on that tour.

Indian Girl is the first audible hi-hat gap I can find. It's difficult to tell if it's on anything on SG but often it's audible during the snare which is obvious on some of the ER tracks.

The writer doesn't seem to know, somehow, that the artists the Stones covered were credited on releases and they (or their estates) have made a tad bit more money than they did just on their own.

At least on tour he already did it 1975. Maybe already 1972, but I had to look at some videos.

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SomeTorontoGirl
I’ve wanted to say something to Steve Jordan for a while now, and that is simply - Thank You.

He took a great deal of criticism when he stepped up after Charlie died. With tens of thousands of grief-stricken fans, some couldn’t help but direct but their grief at him, which was unfair. But the Stones had to do the tour, and he was not only Charlie’s pick, he was family. He’d played with Mick earlier, played with Keith for decades, he was trusted. For years, ‘Keith's side’ of the stage was right in front of Charlie - he stuck tight to him. I’m not sure how Keith would have fared on tour without a similar rock behind him while he worked through his grief.

I’m not a musician, so can’t hear some of the subtle differences others might. To me it seems that Steve honours Charlie and his style without trying to be him. He’s very reserved on stage, no big bows during the intros, I think he tries to just blend in. But… it took a massive pair to take that seat. I really don’t think they could have continued touring with anyone else. And he’s damn good. So…


Thank you, Steve. Thank you.

Couldn't agree more. Well said!

Steve is a mensch, and also an unbelievably insightful dude. As a non-musician I have learned so much listening to his interviews.

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StonedRambler

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GasLightStreet
Heavy lifting? Isn't that Keith and Ronnie and Jones and Jordan? I don't think keyboards are heavy lifting.

Charlie's hi-hat gap didn't start until... it's not on any of the songs on SOME GIRLS except maybe Shattered - but he did it on that tour.

Indian Girl is the first audible hi-hat gap I can find. It's difficult to tell if it's on anything on SG but often it's audible during the snare which is obvious on some of the ER tracks.

The writer doesn't seem to know, somehow, that the artists the Stones covered were credited on releases and they (or their estates) have made a tad bit more money than they did just on their own.

At least on tour he already did it 1975. Maybe already 1972, but I had to look at some videos.

I've been looking. It's not... definitive. 1978, absolutely. I really think he started it towards the end of the SG sessions and somewhat did it with the ER sessions. By they U sessions, it was on.

Regardless, Tell Me Straight is incredible. That one is special.

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GasLightStreet

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StonedRambler

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GasLightStreet
Heavy lifting? Isn't that Keith and Ronnie and Jones and Jordan? I don't think keyboards are heavy lifting.

Charlie's hi-hat gap didn't start until... it's not on any of the songs on SOME GIRLS except maybe Shattered - but he did it on that tour.

Indian Girl is the first audible hi-hat gap I can find. It's difficult to tell if it's on anything on SG but often it's audible during the snare which is obvious on some of the ER tracks.

The writer doesn't seem to know, somehow, that the artists the Stones covered were credited on releases and they (or their estates) have made a tad bit more money than they did just on their own.

At least on tour he already did it 1975. Maybe already 1972, but I had to look at some videos.

I've been looking. It's not... definitive. 1978, absolutely. I really think he started it towards the end of the SG sessions and somewhat did it with the ER sessions. By they U sessions, it was on.

Regardless, Tell Me Straight is incredible. That one is special.

Watch "All down the line" from LA Forum 1975.

Edit: Found another, even better example: Silver Train Promo video. That's from 1973 and Charlie skips the hihat all throughout the video.

Edit 2: Also "Dancing with Mr. D" and "Angie" promo videos.

That's prove enough. Charlie did it as early as 1973. Maybe even earlier.

That doesn't mean he did it on every performance back then. But had he already discovered it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-07-31 12:47 by StonedRambler.

Love his stage presence with the Stones.

Generally speaking, when classic bands tour nowadays, members of the touring band tend to have a low profile, so to leave the spot light to the surviving chore members.

Steve instead has such a charisma that you can't see this distinction at all.

Love it!


C

Nice to see people are warming up to Steve. I know it's hard and we miss Charlie but he's a great guy to come in and do the job. Hats off to him. And while I'm at it gotta say Darryl is really killing it for me lately. Higher in the mix and nice heavy melodic bass lines. I'm loving the new line up.

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StonedRambler

Watch "All down the line" from LA Forum 1975.

Edit: Found another, even better example: Silver Train Promo video. That's from 1973 and Charlie skips the hihat all throughout the video.

Edit 2: Also "Dancing with Mr. D" and "Angie" promo videos.

That's prove enough. Charlie did it as early as 1973. Maybe even earlier.

That doesn't mean he did it on every performance back then. But had he already discovered it.

Must have seen those videos million of times and never noticed it!


C

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StonedRambler

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GasLightStreet

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StonedRambler

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GasLightStreet
Heavy lifting? Isn't that Keith and Ronnie and Jones and Jordan? I don't think keyboards are heavy lifting.

Charlie's hi-hat gap didn't start until... it's not on any of the songs on SOME GIRLS except maybe Shattered - but he did it on that tour.

Indian Girl is the first audible hi-hat gap I can find. It's difficult to tell if it's on anything on SG but often it's audible during the snare which is obvious on some of the ER tracks.

The writer doesn't seem to know, somehow, that the artists the Stones covered were credited on releases and they (or their estates) have made a tad bit more money than they did just on their own.

At least on tour he already did it 1975. Maybe already 1972, but I had to look at some videos.

I've been looking. It's not... definitive. 1978, absolutely. I really think he started it towards the end of the SG sessions and somewhat did it with the ER sessions. By they U sessions, it was on.

Regardless, Tell Me Straight is incredible. That one is special.

Watch "All down the line" from LA Forum 1975.

Edit: Found another, even better example: Silver Train Promo video. That's from 1973 and Charlie skips the hihat all throughout the video.

Edit 2: Also "Dancing with Mr. D" and "Angie" promo videos.

That's prove enough. Charlie did it as early as 1973. Maybe even earlier.

That doesn't mean he did it on every performance back then. But had he already discovered it.

LOL wow! Yep, he's definitely doing it in Mr D. Having something particular to look for, I never realized just how awful those videos are.

Weird. Listen to SOME GIRLS and it doesn't sound like he's got the hi hat gap, although not all the drums are in 4 or 2-1, which is when he usually does it.

Watch the rehearsal of Tumbling Dice 1972 - not constantly but he does it even then! Watching some live things from 1972 he did it not nothing like he did later on.

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frankotero
Nice to see people are warming up to Steve. I know it's hard and we miss Charlie but he's a great guy to come in and do the job. Hats off to him. And while I'm at it gotta say Darryl is really killing it for me lately. Higher in the mix and nice heavy melodic bass lines. I'm loving the new line up.

I think Jordan did excellently on HACKNEY DIAMONDS and from all the live clips I've seen since 2021 he's done fantastic live - even if some of what he's doing is going back to how it was recorded and it seems a little off.

He's a much heavier drummer than Charlie. Kinda funny but lately Start Me Up sounds more like the 1981-82 performance of it, raggily with the 4 beat.