I recently found a handful of Exile songs on youtube that had guitars removed via AI extraction, leaving drums, vocals, and bass. When I was listening to Sweet Virginia, I noticed that the bass does not sound at all like Wyman's fretless, but has the distinct tone of an upright:

video: [www.youtube.com]

If you compare the single notes just around the "drop your reds, drop your greens and blues" to the outtake, you can hear that the bass parts are different, which would make sense if they (Mick, Keith, Jimmy Miller etc) decided to replace the original track with an overdub at Sunset Sound.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-29 19:19 by automaticchanger.

There is another AI extraction video for All Down the Line, which despite having Plummer listed in the album credits, is definitely Wyman's homemade fretless - you can hear the difference between the muddy thud of his tone versus the higher end of the slap and mic'd upright on Virginia:

video: [www.youtube.com]

This bassline is identical to the one found on the Hopkins tape of rough mixes, which to me confirms that Wyman was right all these years when he insisted the credits were wrong and he did play on this song.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-29 19:22 by automaticchanger.

For some reason I'm having trouble inserting multiple youtube links into my original post - this is the link for the outtake of Sweet Virginia with Wyman's original bass part:

video: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-29 19:23 by automaticchanger.

I'm a bit confused, which Bill do we mean in which instance. Maybe use the name Wyman where you mean Wyman and Plummer where you mean Plummer?

Good call, sorry about that - I edited the earlier posts.

Keith said use the studio notes for the liners.

Mick scribbled all of that. I read somewhere, can't remember where, that - oh, no, that was TATTOO YOU.

I swear I read somewhere that he wasn't sure about who all was on whatever on EXILE so he winged it.

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automaticchanger
There is another AI extraction video for All Down the Line, which despite having Plummer listed in the album credits, is definitely Wyman's homemade fretless - you can hear the difference between the muddy thud of his tone versus the higher end of the slap and mic'd upright on Virginia:

video: [www.youtube.com]

This bassline is identical to the one found on the Hopkins tape of rough mixes, which to me confirms that Wyman was right all these years when he insisted the credits were wrong and he did play on this song.

Aren't there two bass tracks in the beginning of ADTL?

What I am hearing in your posted files: clearly Bill Wyman on Sweet Virginia, no doubt about that. On the AI file of ADTL I hear an upright bass, not Bill Wyman. But on Exile, you actually hear two bass tracks, the Upright bass, and Wyman. The more steady bass lines (as on this AI track) is the upright bass, and Wyman plays the walking bass lines.

Great to hear the back-up vocals!

Mathijs

Interesting to hear your thoughts on this - to me ADTL is Wyman's fretless bass, as it matches exactly the tone on other songs that are known to have the same setup. This is an AI reduction of Rocks Off, and the bass tone to me sounds identical to ADTL, and different from Virginia:

video: [www.youtube.com]

video: [youtu.be][[video]https://youtu.be/MFukAIFJfbI?si=dxMS1i-d5KwIsLzi Here’s Sweet Virginia isolated tracks.If it doesn’t post here , you can find the video on you tubeand other songs like Rocks Off,Happy,and others, under deconstructing tracks Rolling Stones



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-30 21:22 by Taylor1.

I hear Wyman’s fretless bass on Rocks Off, and Wyman’s Fender Mustang bass on Sweet Virginia. And a stand-up bass on ADTL.

Mathijs

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automaticchanger
When I was listening to Sweet Virginia, I noticed that the bass does not sound at all like Wyman's fretless, but has the distinct tone of an upright:

Aw, very nice thread!
I listened to the tracks you submitted and clearly several different basses in play. That fretless, thumpy, sometimes-almost-out-of key-Wyman is a signature sound. Quite easy to spot.

I was a bit surprised to hear the Sweet Virginia sound as I thought I knew it, but I do hear what made your ears perk up. To me its not the thump of the bass itself but that secondary sound the bass makes that sounds a bit like a slap or string vibrating. Have not noticed it before, and god how many times havent I heard that track, haha. Thought it might be an AI artifact but its there in the original.

In a letter dated September 29th 1971 - i.e during the EXILE recordings in France, Trevor Churchill writes that Sweet Virginia has recently been overdubbed at Nellcote. No note as to which part, though. (Probably nothing to do with basses.) I mentioned this in the Nellcote Chronicles. The letter goes on to say that Loving Cup has been re-recorded, too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-30 22:44 by RobberBride.

Without listening to the tracks, in my experience extracting instruments can lead to some timbral changes to the original source.

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TravelinMan
Without listening to the tracks, in my experience extracting instruments can lead to some timbral changes to the original source.

Me too. Sometimes I even wonder how they manage to plaster it into a decent product.Besides, to my ears Bill is not a good fretless bass player. Merely someone who played a bass with removed frets. He doesn't get the benefit out of it. I prefer him with a fretted bass guitar.

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TheflyingDutchman

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TravelinMan
Without listening to the tracks, in my experience extracting instruments can lead to some timbral changes to the original source.

Me too. Sometimes I even wonder how they manage to plaster it into a decent product.Besides, to my ears Bill is not a good fretless bass player. Merely someone who played a bass with removed frets. He doesn't get the benefit out of it. I prefer him with a fretted bass guitar.

Bill Wyman is not a fretless bassplayer, Bill Wyman plays a fretless bass.

Ps there is nothing I hate more than fretless bass players! That awfull sound they make sliding and sustaining notes, horrible!

Mathijs

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Mathijs

Ps there is nothing I hate more than fretless bass players! That awfull sound they make sliding and sustaining notes, horrible!

Mathijs

Fretless can work very well in pop music. Come back and stay (Paul Young) and Black Velvet (Allanah Myles ) are good examples.

Jack Bruce was a pioneer on it in Rock music.

And then we had Pastorius , Stanley Clarke, Percy Jones.. the list goes on.

Not exactly a subject for a Rolling Stones site indeed.

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TheflyingDutchman

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Mathijs

Ps there is nothing I hate more than fretless bass players! That awfull sound they make sliding and sustaining notes, horrible!

Mathijs

Fretless can work very well in pop music. Come back and stay (Paul Young) and Black Velvet (Allanah Myles ) are good examples.

Jack Bruce was a pioneer on it in Rock music.

And then we had Pastorius , Stanley Clarke, Percy Jones.. the list goes on.

Not exactly a subject for a Rolling Stones site indeed.

Black Velvet is very, very high on my list of Worst Songs Ever. Unlistenable to me.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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TheflyingDutchman

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Mathijs

Ps there is nothing I hate more than fretless bass players! That awfull sound they make sliding and sustaining notes, horrible!

Mathijs

Fretless can work very well in pop music. Come back and stay (Paul Young) and Black Velvet (Allanah Myles ) are good examples.

Jack Bruce was a pioneer on it in Rock music.

And then we had Pastorius , Stanley Clarke, Percy Jones.. the list goes on.

Not exactly a subject for a Rolling Stones site indeed.

Black Velvet is very, very high on my list of Worst Songs Ever. Unlistenable to me.

Mathijs

I have more problems with André Rieu. He's capable of getting Jagger and Richards on his stage.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-07-01 15:47 by TheflyingDutchman.

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Mathijs

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TheflyingDutchman

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TravelinMan
Without listening to the tracks, in my experience extracting instruments can lead to some timbral changes to the original source.

Me too. Sometimes I even wonder how they manage to plaster it into a decent product.Besides, to my ears Bill is not a good fretless bass player. Merely someone who played a bass with removed frets. He doesn't get the benefit out of it. I prefer him with a fretted bass guitar.

Bill Wyman is not a fretless bassplayer, Bill Wyman plays a fretless bass.

Ps there is nothing I hate more than fretless bass players! That awfull sound they make sliding and sustaining notes, horrible!

Mathijs

I totally agree! Btw, I had never realized that Bill Wyman sometimes played a fretless bass. He sure doesn't sound like it (tg), or maybe I missed that (what about the 19th Nervous Breakdown part, you wouldn't need a fretless bass for that, I don't think).

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SomeGuy

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Mathijs

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TheflyingDutchman

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TravelinMan
Without listening to the tracks, in my experience extracting instruments can lead to some timbral changes to the original source.

Me too. Sometimes I even wonder how they manage to plaster it into a decent product.Besides, to my ears Bill is not a good fretless bass player. Merely someone who played a bass with removed frets. He doesn't get the benefit out of it. I prefer him with a fretted bass guitar.

Bill Wyman is not a fretless bassplayer, Bill Wyman plays a fretless bass.

Ps there is nothing I hate more than fretless bass players! That awfull sound they make sliding and sustaining notes, horrible!

Mathijs

I totally agree! Btw, I had never realized that Bill Wyman sometimes played a fretless bass. He sure doesn't sound like it (tg), or maybe I missed that (what about the 19th Nervous Breakdown part, you wouldn't need a fretless bass for that, I don't think).

Maybe because he bought a cheap unplayable bass in 1961 and had to remove the frets in order to make it playable.

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TheflyingDutchman

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SomeGuy

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Mathijs

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TheflyingDutchman

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TravelinMan
Without listening to the tracks, in my experience extracting instruments can lead to some timbral changes to the original source.

Me too. Sometimes I even wonder how they manage to plaster it into a decent product.Besides, to my ears Bill is not a good fretless bass player. Merely someone who played a bass with removed frets. He doesn't get the benefit out of it. I prefer him with a fretted bass guitar.

Bill Wyman is not a fretless bassplayer, Bill Wyman plays a fretless bass.

Ps there is nothing I hate more than fretless bass players! That awfull sound they make sliding and sustaining notes, horrible!

Mathijs

I totally agree! Btw, I had never realized that Bill Wyman sometimes played a fretless bass. He sure doesn't sound like it (tg), or maybe I missed that (what about the 19th Nervous Breakdown part, you wouldn't need a fretless bass for that, I don't think).

Maybe because he bought a cheap unplayable bass in 1961 and had to remove the frets in order to make it playable.

I must have read about that more than once, but apparently I totally forgot about it, imagine

Bill's joked about it on occasion...

..saying he wouldn't have been a terribly good fretless player, and needed the lines, where the frets used to be, to know where the notes were.