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Doxa

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retired_dog

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Doxa


Maybe this all goes way back.. To the DNA of male-dominated rock culture. If a female gets too close to the core its getting annoying... Aren't there always something suspicious in all those wifes and girlfriends of our rock stars, and then, shit, sharing the stage, ouch... No one is yet forgiven Yoko Ono who did all that...

- Doxa

I know from former talks that you tend to lift discussions about women in rock music to a social, cultural, political meta-level, but what is it really that Yoko Ono should be forgiven for? Surely not "sharing the stage" with her husband per se, that is, if she had something valuable to add to his musical performance - something she did not imo, at least not on stage. Instead, what she had on offer when she joined the stage with John was nothing more than artsy-fartsy "revolutionary" destructive screaming that had nothing to do with the actual music being played. If anything, that is something she should be forgiven for because, well, those were the times and we're half a century on...

I should have written no one has (like RisingStone rightly corrected me) yet forgiven Yoko for doing all that and more. If in pop canon The Beatles is the most loved thing since Jesus that Ono woman is the most hated figure ever. She corrupted Holy John and thereby destroyed all the fun (The Beatles). This is what big boys taught me as a kid. Her screaming on stage just ices the poisonous cake, and makes it easy for the argument, but her crimes go way deeper.

But personally - you know, after I grew up and started to develop my own judgment - I think that Yoko was the best thing that happened to John, and he started doing much more interesting material. He stopped doing easy-listening pop with the lads, and discovered a Dylan out of himself. Yoko had a huge role there, and together they did something extraordinary. You know, the combo of the world's biggest rock star and an exotic performance artist. Plus there was a lot of other things those two did together that was probably more revolutionary and surely more controversial (= rock and roll) than what The Beatles ever did. Over the top and corny at times, but you know, that's beautiful (and as the years go by, it all looks more and more beautiful). Their public affair was a sort of performance act of its own.

Just my two cents.

- Doxa

Doxa, if you for a moment leave your rose-tinted view on Lennon after the Beatles breakup and have a short look on reality, the phase where he "discovered a Dylan out of himself" ended already with his return to "easy-listening pop" with "Mind Games" in 1973, and by 1975 he was back to the roots with his "Rock'n'Roll" album consisting entirely of covers, a sure sign of an artist "all dressed up and no idea where to go". After that - a five year hiatus, and one more "mainstream pop" album during his lifetime.

Three experimental albums with Yoko Ono, using tape loops, interviews, musique concrète and other avant-garde performance techniques, the singles "Give Peace a Chance" (1969), "Cold Turkey" (1969) and "Instant Karma!" (1970) and a live album, Live Peace in Toronto (1969) were released before the break-up of the Beatles. These singles and also most of his "political themed" songs from 1970 to 1972 could have been released on Beatles albums, I mean, if they can include "Revolution #9" on the White Album, they can include almost everything... In the end, musically, I don't see much difference between the Beatles and (most) of his solo career, at least not the sharp division you seem to glorify Yoko for.

In my book and recollection, Yoko did not receive flak first and foremost because she was a woman or because she was japanese - it was a lot more because she shared the concert stage with Lennon without any noticable singing talent. Speaking of women in rock and back to the topic - with Janis Joplin, Aretha Franklin, Marsha Hunt, Grace Slick or (fill in here) it would have been a different story altogether...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-04 01:35 by retired_dog.

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Nankstone
correct, completely my opinion
I "only" saw her LIVE in Milan and not on tour now (only from videos), but in Milan she was really amazing.

Her performance in Milano was really stunning. Actually, I was bit dissapointed when I saw her now in the States. A bit too much aggressiv acting like on a theater stage, but the voice is ok.

Yes, Milan was totally stunning, a revelation like there have been few in Stonesworld for the past few decades where it's generally "business as usual". The other one of course being Taylor popping on stage for MR at the O2 in 2012.

I'm not a fan of the "theatrics" but I doubt she'd let loose if she hadn't been pushed by Mick to do it, he must like it, the buck stops with him.

Now the voice, wow, it's really something. I seem to be in the minority but I never like Sasha's singing, it lacked the depth and warmth that Chanel has, and she often pushed it too hard to the point it broke/screeched, it was really painful at times...now she did blend in better with her background vocals, like Bernard, but I for one prefer a voice that stands out like Chanel's and brings a little extra color to the proceedings.

I didn't mention Lisa, she was great no doubt but apart from GS she didn't stand out as much either and she was also pretty demonstrative, no ?

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-04 18:39 by gotdablouse.

Love her, she's great. Also like Sasha a lot.

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RawIguanaCologne
not being a nagging person over the last decades, I just have admit, I dislike her show plots, in a way I never felt with Lisa or even Sasha.
too ambitious, too pretentious, and wanting the guy behind (which is Mick after more an hour in the show!).
What I'd say: she don't wanna do that stuff TOGETHER.

I hear you, too aggressive, shouting the lyrics not singing them, what's that all about.
But i do like her, love her backing vocals, especially on T&A.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-04 12:07 by keefriffhards.

Sweet Sounds of Heaven .......



ROCKMAN

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BlueLands
If I may chip in. Personally, I think she's the best addition the band/organization could have asked for. As a fan of Tina Turner, I must say, it's like seeing the Stones in 197O.

I believe Chanel brings such a powerful voice (and sexuality] that it pushes the band to greater heights. She can't keep her hands off Mick, which to me is a great indication of her confidence and "place'.

I look forward to hearing her voice this month! 1,OOOx better than Sasha Allen could dream of. Sasha was waaay in over her head. Not sure if she'd even heard of the Stones or any of their songs before she was hired. Amateur at best. Chanel is the true professional.

..........Thank You Blueslands. My thoughts exactly......Chanel is a great addition, Sasha seemed inexperienced............

..........The bigger issue is the Yoko Ono/women in rock comments in general.Why would anybody relate that to the Stones???

........If you know anything about the Stones, they live for R'nB and soul music, and in soul & r'nb

...........pressed the wrong key............here is the finish to my post: in soul & r'nb.there are always background singers, typically a combination of women and men.

......It's Mick who started the calling them up to join him on certain parts of the song. I didn't care for it originally, but now I think it works,(as long as Mick keeps it to where it is crucial. Nobody is going to touch Merry Clayton.or Lisa Fischer.

I am soooooo glad that I have seen the Stones back in the days of Stevie Wonder opening, Ian Stewart touring with them, Billy Preston also on keys, Mick Taylor, Brian Jones.

Thanks again BluesLand!

..........The bigger crime is how come nobody mentions the incredible Bobby Keys?..........he brought the Stones sound to another level!!!!

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stonesurvive

..........The bigger crime is how come nobody mentions the incredible Bobby Keys?..........he brought the Stones sound to another level!!!!

More generally, you can say what you want about the Stones but they've always been generous as musicians . If you're playing with them on stage, you're part of the band and given that due respect.

[...just don't ask for a bigger cut of the door ]

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Spud

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stonesurvive

..........The bigger crime is how come nobody mentions the incredible Bobby Keys?..........he brought the Stones sound to another level!!!!

More generally, you can say what you want about the Stones but they've always been generous as musicians . If you're playing with them on stage, you're part of the band and given that due respect.

[...just don't ask for a bigger cut of the door ]

...........You killed it Spud!!!!!. As you know......That's why it took Mick about 17+ years to make Ronnie an official Stone!!

Not a huge fan of her either. It's all a bit much. I think she wants to give the impression that she is very much into it, but to me it looks and sounds a bit annoying and even comical.

She's an excellent singer, but for me she's overacting.

I loved her performance in Milan, but on this tour, she's doing way too much and shouting instead of singing. It often sounds off on Gimme Shelter, such a shame.

Benjamin.

Love her!

Eat thing since Lisa and it’s obvious the band does too.
I never liked Sasha too “soft” for GS imo.

Love her. Pushes Mick to greater heights in my opinion

Rod

Love her and all that, great singer, nice looking and very charismatic, but anyone noticed Mick's body language for a few shows was a bit frosty during Shelter, perhaps she was a bit too agressive or was she overdoing things from Mick's perspective.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-06 04:59 by Rocky Dijon.

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Rocky Dijon
Mick is understandably guarded about getting hurt. He has a leg he is protective of and he is leery of tripping or falling onstage as well he should be considering how physical he is onstage. He and Darryl's bump interaction on this tour is an example of modifying things to make sure there isn't a costly mistake. That aside, if Mick thought Chanel was overdoing something, it would change by the next show. He's hardly shy about giving fe
edback/direction to sidemen.

At least Mick hasn't resorted to turning her vocals down like he did with Sasha on Shelter.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-06 14:31 by keefriffhards.

Chanel is doing a great Job imo.
t.So was Sasha. Both seemed to grow with their task.But no one will ever reach Lisa. Just watch some videos from the 90s. And you will see and hear the difference.

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Rocky Dijon
Mick is understandably guarded about getting hurt. He has a leg he is protective of and he is leery of tripping or falling onstage as well he should be considering how physical he is onstage. He and Darryl's bump interaction on this tour is an example of modifying things to make sure there isn't a costly mistake. That aside, if Mick thought Chanel was overdoing something, it would change by the next show. He's hardly shy about giving feedback/direction to sidemen.

Wasn't the "leg incident" just an excuse for the unannounced tour in 2023 so that nobody would suspect they would prepare the release of a new album?

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StonedRambler

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Rocky Dijon
Mick is understandably guarded about getting hurt. He has a leg he is protective of and he is leery of tripping or falling onstage as well he should be considering how physical he is onstage. He and Darryl's bump interaction on this tour is an example of modifying things to make sure there isn't a costly mistake. That aside, if Mick thought Chanel was overdoing something, it would change by the next show. He's hardly shy about giving feedback/direction to sidemen.

Wasn't the "leg incident" just an excuse for the unannounced tour in 2023 so that nobody would suspect they would prepare the release of a new album?

Agreed, there wasn't a leg injury or foot injury, just speculation on the part of some posters, turned out Mick just wanted a year away from touring to concentrate on the album.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-06 04:59 by Rocky Dijon.

edited for content



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-06 04:58 by Rocky Dijon.

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Rocky Dijon
edited for content

There's no way he's protecting his leg Rocky, have you seen him running on stage the past 9 shows 2024.

With all due respect Rocky it's better
to admit you might have it wrong as opossed to deleting all your posts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-06 14:30 by keefriffhards.

I think, Sasha Allen was really good as a backing vocalist of The Rolling Stones, her voice suited very well with Mick and Keith, and the other band members who do backing vocals (Bernard, Chuck, Darryl).

But for the special moments I prefer Chanel!

Altough Lisa Fischer's voice and vibe within the band was the best of course



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-07 02:44 by Musicwinn.

Sasha more musical? Chanel overpowering?

Think about this. Wasn’t it Merry Clayton’s piercing cry, that uncontrollable, over-the-top, cracking vocal delivery — a legend in itself — that made Gimme Shelter so unforgettable? No one can recreate that moment, including Lisa.

If there is the art of screaming, it is Merry who can claim that, not Yoko.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-07 09:30 by RisingStone.