not being a nagging person over the last decades, I just have admit, I dislike her show plots, in a way I never felt with Lisa or even Sasha.
too ambitious, too pretentious, and wanting the guy behind (which is Mick after more an hour in the show!).
What I'd say: she don't wanna do that stuff TOGETHER.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-02 17:55 by bv.

To me it's a lot in the body movement,
and I can't skip the thought being after a big career reward after -
what is more than okay! Its showbiz in America!
maybe she's just too olympic on her way, so she might not feel some of the magic of touring and playing together.
There's not many bands around you can get this from. Ahoi & Love

She is amazing. Also lots a great new backup harmonies this tour. But I do agree she hasn't got the magic click with Mick he had with Lisa or even Sasha.

yeah, I think so

Yesterday I watched a few clips of Gimme Sehlter with Sasha and I have to say it was so much more musical and haunting. IMO Chanel doesn't bring the gravitas the song demands in her over-the-top performances. At points she even seems to lack respect for the song. Sounds harsh but that's just my opinion.

A number of folks here once dissed Ms Allen, claiming we don’t want a diva etc, and eagerly requested that she be swapped for Chenelle Haynes based on her sole stand-in performance in Milan 2022. Now someone denigrates her and someone else partially agrees.

History repeats itself…

just what I thought

Nah, Ihm not nostalgic about Lisa and Sasha!

But both of them. - in an incredibly important part of the show!!! -
made their references to the audience - more sexy, more less, depends on them...

But I can't held, Ms Haynes comes from society, where even in culture Olympic goals are to be cracked.

Chanel is something, she could fill in for Brian Johnson with her naturally distorting voice. And she does not seem to lose it either!

Chanel also needs time to learn all the backing stuff to the same level as Sasha.

I think she has a big, stupendous voice but she is a little too theatrical for my taste. I enjoyed her though.

I think Haynes is better than Sasha. Sasha always seemed to restrained, Haynes really goes for it and brings back the drama needed for that particular section of Gimme Shelter.

If I may chip in. Personally, I think she's the best addition the band/organization could have asked for. As a fan of Tina Turner, I must say, it's like seeing the Stones in 197O.

I believe Chanel brings such a powerful voice (and sexuality] that it pushes the band to greater heights. She can't keep her hands off Mick, which to me is a great indication of her confidence and "place'.

I look forward to hearing her voice this month! 1,OOOx better than Sasha Allen could dream of. Sasha was waaay in over her head. Not sure if she'd even heard of the Stones or any of their songs before she was hired. Amateur at best. Chanel is the true professional.

Chanel to me is of course a different experience after Lisa and Sasha.
But that's ok.

Especially, when her spot in GS comes and she has to sing about rape and murder ... she is more shouting than singing. And quite rightly so, as far as I'm concerned.

Of course you could sing about this with a smile, but ..., no, I really like it, when she is screaming these lines into the spectator's faces. It matches the message of GS, IMHO.

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RisingStone
A number of folks here once dissed Ms Allen, claiming we don’t want a diva etc, and eagerly requested that she be swapped for Chenelle Haynes based on her sole stand-in performance in Milan 2022. Now someone denigrates her and someone else partially agrees.

History repeats itself…

Absolutely.

Sasha was dissed a lot here, some folks were claiming she was rather screaming GS instead of singing.

Lisa was also dissed after 2012, mainly for gaining.weight, not reaching the high notes anymore and smiling during her Gimme Shelter solo.

And now its Chanel...

If this thread gets to Chanel: Don't listen to some old men, continue what you do. You're doing great!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-02 12:28 by StonedRambler.

Maybe this all goes way back.. To the DNA of male-dominated rock culture. If a female gets too close to the core its getting annoying... Aren't there always something suspicious in all those wifes and girlfriends of our rock stars, and then, shit, sharing the stage, ouch... No one is yet forgiven Yoko Ono who did all that...

- Doxa

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StonedRambler

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RisingStone
A number of folks here once dissed Ms Allen, claiming we don’t want a diva etc, and eagerly requested that she be swapped for Chenelle Haynes based on her sole stand-in performance in Milan 2022. Now someone denigrates her and someone else partially agrees.

History repeats itself…

Absolutely.

Sasha was dissed a lot here, some folks were claiming she was rather screaming GS instead of singing.

Lisa was also dissed after 2012, mainly for gaining.weight, not reaching the high notes anymore and smiling during her Gimme Shelter solo.

And now its Chanel...

If this thread gets to Chanel: Don't listen to some old men, continue what you do. You're doing great!

correct, completely my opinion
I "only" saw her LIVE in Milan and not on tour now (only from videos), but in Milan she was really amazing.

I don't know where you guys are going with this. I can just speak for myself and I have to say that I really really liked Sasha and think that Chanel's delivery is kitsch ("kitsch" as in: let's make it clear even to the most emotionally blind that it's a song about RAAAAPEEE and MUUUURDEEER). Some people like musicals...

But yeah, she's just a few shows in and it's not an easy job. AS we see here preferences differ. I'll surely give her give her a chance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-02 14:03 by MonkeyMan2000.

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RawIguanaCologne
and wanting the guy behind (which is Mick after more an hour in the show!).
What I'd say: she don't wanna do that stuff TOGETHER.

I don't see it that way but rather that she challenges Mick to keep up with that energy - and he does! During recent tours GS has sometimes been a bit sleepy and just like going through the motions. Now it sounds energetic and fresh again.

i was asking myself yesterday, watching NJ II, is she better than Lisa?
And in a sense, oh yes!!

Nowhere near Lisa from 94/95 and 97/99. But she is good.

I like her better than Sasha (too restrained), but not as much as Lisa, (Chanel is too theatrical.)
Let's face it though, Lisa had years to understand Mick's moves and work collaboratively with him.

It's kind of refreshing to see how Chanel pushes Mick, literally and figuratively.
Let's see how she progresses.

Doxa, you made some good points above about females in a male industry.

~"Love is Strong"~

I think she has been doing great.

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MonkeyMan2000
Yesterday I watched a few clips of Gimme Sehlter with Sasha and I have to say it was so much more musical and haunting. IMO Chanel doesn't bring the gravitas the song demands in her over-the-top performances. At points she even seems to lack respect for the song. Sounds harsh but that's just my opinion.

I totally agree. I personally do not see what others seem to like. I was at the two NJ shows and the Boston show. All I can say is I miss Lisa and Sasha. All 18 people I was with who have gone to all the tours since 99 were very disappointed in her performance.

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Doxa


Maybe this all goes way back.. To the DNA of male-dominated rock culture. If a female gets too close to the core its getting annoying... Aren't there always something suspicious in all those wifes and girlfriends of our rock stars, and then, shit, sharing the stage, ouch... No one is yet forgiven Yoko Ono who did all that...

- Doxa

I know from former talks that you tend to lift discussions about women in rock music to a social, cultural, political meta-level, but what is it really that Yoko Ono should be forgiven for? Surely not "sharing the stage" with her husband per se, that is, if she had something valuable to add to his musical performance - something she did not imo, at least not on stage. Instead, what she had on offer when she joined the stage with John was nothing more than artsy-fartsy "revolutionary" destructive screaming that had nothing to do with the actual music being played. If anything, that is something she should be forgiven for because, well, those were the times and we're half a century on...

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angee
I like her better than Sasha (too restrained), but not as much as Lisa, (Chanel is too theatrical.)
Let's face it though, Lisa had years to understand Mick's moves and work collaboratively with him.

It's kind of refreshing to see how Chanel pushes Mick, literally and figuratively.
Let's see how she progresses.

Doxa, you made some good points above about females in a male industry.

Well, if Rock was a male-dominated industry, then I think that women don't have anything to worry about any longer as rock is dead and the biggest performers in the music industry are virtually all female.

That said Chanel is great but a little over the top sometimes.

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retired_dog

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Doxa


Maybe this all goes way back.. To the DNA of male-dominated rock culture. If a female gets too close to the core its getting annoying... Aren't there always something suspicious in all those wifes and girlfriends of our rock stars, and then, shit, sharing the stage, ouch... No one is yet forgiven Yoko Ono who did all that...

- Doxa

I know from former talks that you tend to lift discussions about women in rock music to a social, cultural, political meta-level, but what is it really that Yoko Ono should be forgiven for? Surely not "sharing the stage" with her husband per se, that is, if she had something valuable to add to his musical performance - something she did not imo, at least not on stage. Instead, what she had on offer when she joined the stage with John was nothing more than artsy-fartsy "revolutionary" destructive screaming that had nothing to do with the actual music being played. If anything, that is something she should be forgiven for because, well, those were the times and we're half a century on...

I wonder if Doxa put “is” by mistake, where he actually was going to write “has”.

That aside, my view and estimation on Yoko the “musician”, at least as an onstage performer, is closer to that of retired_dog’s — even if there was sexism/racism in the derogatory remarks thrown at her back then.

Turn the girl loose, I won't hurt nobody
Turn the girl loose, let her speak for herself
The hounds are on the track, they won't catch nobody
The hounds are on the track, I don't really care

..................... Turn The Girl Loose - Mick Jagger



ROCKMAN

Quote
retired_dog

Quote
Doxa


Maybe this all goes way back.. To the DNA of male-dominated rock culture. If a female gets too close to the core its getting annoying... Aren't there always something suspicious in all those wifes and girlfriends of our rock stars, and then, shit, sharing the stage, ouch... No one is yet forgiven Yoko Ono who did all that...

- Doxa

I know from former talks that you tend to lift discussions about women in rock music to a social, cultural, political meta-level, but what is it really that Yoko Ono should be forgiven for? Surely not "sharing the stage" with her husband per se, that is, if she had something valuable to add to his musical performance - something she did not imo, at least not on stage. Instead, what she had on offer when she joined the stage with John was nothing more than artsy-fartsy "revolutionary" destructive screaming that had nothing to do with the actual music being played. If anything, that is something she should be forgiven for because, well, those were the times and we're half a century on...

I should have written no one has (like RisingStone rightly corrected me) yet forgiven Yoko for doing all that and more. If in pop canon The Beatles is the most loved thing since Jesus that Ono woman is the most hated figure ever. She corrupted Holy John and thereby destroyed all the fun (The Beatles). This is what big boys taught me as a kid. Her screaming on stage just ices the poisonous cake, and makes it easy for the argument, but her crimes go way deeper.

But personally - you know, after I grew up and started to develop my own judgment - I think that Yoko was the best thing that happened to John, and he started doing much more interesting material. He stopped doing easy-listening pop with the lads, and discovered a Dylan out of himself. Yoko had a huge role there, and together they did something extraordinary. You know, the combo of the world's biggest rock star and an exotic performance artist. Plus there was a lot of other things those two did together that was probably more revolutionary and surely more controversial (= rock and roll) than what The Beatles ever did. Over the top and corny at times, but you know, that's beautiful (and as the years go by, it all looks more and more beautiful). Their public affair was a sort of performance act of its own.

Just my two cents.

- Doxa



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-03 14:27 by Doxa.

Could still have done without all that bloody screaming !

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Spud
Could still have done without all that bloody screaming !

By the way, I tried to find the old Jagger quote (around 1975) in where he compared stage to a battle ship and that no women had any business there. Pretty tough comment by many standards now, no matter how a tongue-in-cheek it was like always (and yeah, as the topic of this thread shows, Mick's stance has milded down a bit). I recall the specific reference was to Linda McCartney. But I couldn't find it from web. I think it was at least on IN THEIR OWN WORDS. Anyone recall the quote?

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024-06-03 15:18 by Doxa.