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dedospegajosos

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More Hot Rocks

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dedospegajosos

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schwonek

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dedospegajosos
Because it sucks? I have said many times, this is the wrong drummer for the Stones.

I do not understand the negativity. If you really think someone within the Stones touring gang "sucks" - you are at the wrong place.
The Stones chose this drummer - maybe even Charlie did. They can do whatever they want and it is your choice to listen or not to listen. Just to be so negative. I personally think Steve is a great drummer. Listen to some of his interview and podcasts as he talks about why he plays the drums the way he does with the Stones. And why Charlies drum sound of the seventies is important to him.

I am aware of all this..

All I am saying is he should hit the rim. That would make the snare "whack", which is essential to the stones sound. The stones are a LOUD rock band with exceptional energy. That is part of it´s trade mark. They need a powerful snare sound.

Part of this is what makes the songs sound flat and slow, as observed by may here on this forum.

So you judges this by a cell phone recording. If you know anything you would know the the sanre has its own mic. Talk to the techs and think next time.

Yeesus of course not! I listened to Live at the racket, I have SEEN HIM not hitting the rim of the snare, and I happen to know a lot about drums! I know the difference between rim/no rim hit. And about the microphone on the snare, of course it does! I has nothing to do with volume, it is about how you hit it.Not a very smart observation moron. You think!

Please let´s stay on topic.. anyone here who knows about drums please??

Isn't the problem that you compare Jordan to Watts? Does he have to play like Watts? Does Wood have to play like Taylor? Does D.Jones have to sound like Bill? Charlie and Brian are gone.

As long as Keith and Mick are present , it's matter of taste. Most people are jumping on the bandwagon for no rational reasons.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-04-30 20:34 by TheflyingDutchman.

What does “hit the rim” mean?

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MelBelli
Like this?

[youtu.be]

Cant watch the video right now, but from what I have seen, he is a very good drummer, and I really apreciate the familiarity he as with Keith, big points there, he just needes to loosen up and go crazier I think, to achieve madness, as Mick would say

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Koen
What does “hit the rim” mean?

It means hitting the edge of the snare drum with the drumstick as well as the center of the patch. You must do it hard on both places to get that whacking rock sound. Charlie did it perfectly. From what I have seen and heard on Live at the Racket Steve doesn’t do it, or does it very softly (on the rim)

The drummer from the Pixies does not hit it also. And the music suffers if you are a loud rocking band. My opinion.

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TheflyingDutchman

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dedospegajosos

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More Hot Rocks

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dedospegajosos

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schwonek

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dedospegajosos
Because it sucks? I have said many times, this is the wrong drummer for the Stones.

I do not understand the negativity. If you really think someone within the Stones touring gang "sucks" - you are at the wrong place.
The Stones chose this drummer - maybe even Charlie did. They can do whatever they want and it is your choice to listen or not to listen. Just to be so negative. I personally think Steve is a great drummer. Listen to some of his interview and podcasts as he talks about why he plays the drums the way he does with the Stones. And why Charlies drum sound of the seventies is important to him.

I am aware of all this..

All I am saying is he should hit the rim. That would make the snare "whack", which is essential to the stones sound. The stones are a LOUD rock band with exceptional energy. That is part of it´s trade mark. They need a powerful snare sound.

Part of this is what makes the songs sound flat and slow, as observed by may here on this forum.

So you judges this by a cell phone recording. If you know anything you would know the the sanre has its own mic. Talk to the techs and think next time.

Yeesus of course not! I listened to Live at the racket, I have SEEN HIM not hitting the rim of the snare, and I happen to know a lot about drums! I know the difference between rim/no rim hit. And about the microphone on the snare, of course it does! I has nothing to do with volume, it is about how you hit it.Not a very smart observation moron. You think!

Please let´s stay on topic.. anyone here who knows about drums please??

Isn't the problem that you compare Jordan to Watts? Does he have to play like Watts? Does Wood have to play like Taylor? Does D.Jones have to sound like Bill? Charlie and Brian are gone.

As long as Keith and Mick are present , it's matter of taste. Most people are jumping on the bandwagon for no rational reasons.

No it isn’t. No, he doesn’t. Please no. No. Yes they are.

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dedospegajosos
Shoudn´t he hit the rim of the snare (as well as the center)? Correct me if I´m wrong, but I think he doesn´t. Charlie certaily did.

I always thought his snare sounded weak. This is very apparent in the Racket cd.

Any drummers here?

Charlie hit the middle of the snare, not the rim and center.

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GasLightStreet

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dedospegajosos
Shoudn´t he hit the rim of the snare (as well as the center)? Correct me if I´m wrong, but I think he doesn´t. Charlie certaily did.

I always thought his snare sounded weak. This is very apparent in the Racket cd.

Any drummers here?

Charlie hit the middle of the snare, not the rim and center.

Watch Monkey Man solo camera from 4flicks

Trust me , he hits the edge (and middle obviously) at the same time



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-04-30 21:27 by dedospegajosos.

Yes, Charlie absolutely used the rimshot technique. Not always, but plenty.

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dedospegajosos

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GasLightStreet

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dedospegajosos
Shoudn´t he hit the rim of the snare (as well as the center)? Correct me if I´m wrong, but I think he doesn´t. Charlie certaily did.

I always thought his snare sounded weak. This is very apparent in the Racket cd.

Any drummers here?

Charlie hit the middle of the snare, not the rim and center.

Watch Monkey Man solo camera from 4flicks

Trust me , he hits the edge (and middle obviously) at the same time

Holy crap, he did! Difficult to tell in a lot of videos. And nowhere near the middle! Well, at least in this:





There's plenty of other videos where he doesn't - he holds his stick low after each note strike in All Down The Line but watch Giants Stadium 1994 - it's up higher at an angle basically sitting on the snare but his strikes are high, not on the rim. JJF from 1969... Flip The Switch in St Louis it looks like rim snare.

Another thing, having played drums for years, "military grip" absolutely sounds different than 'rock' drumming. It's quite a difference but it is easier to have a rim snare hit.

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dedospegajosos

All I am saying is he should hit the rim. That would make the snare "whack", which is essential to the stones sound.

Well, I guess you can argue with Mick and Keith. Because the Stones sound is whatever they want the Stones to sound. And if it is not a rim - the Stones sound just does not include the rim. End of story.

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schwonek



Well, I guess you can argue with Mick and Keith. Because the Stones sound is whatever they want the Stones to sound. And if it is not a rim - the Stones sound just does not include the rim. End of story.

+1.

My point exactly.

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GasLightStreet

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dedospegajosos
Shoudn´t he hit the rim of the snare (as well as the center)? Correct me if I´m wrong, but I think he doesn´t. Charlie certaily did.

I always thought his snare sounded weak. This is very apparent in the Racket cd.

Any drummers here?

Charlie hit the middle of the snare, not the rim and center.

I's called a 'rimshot' and it is an integral part of Charlie's sound, especially from 1975 to 1982. Since 1989 Charlie changed his snare and sticks, and changed his technique somewhat so that the rimshot is less pronounced.

Mathijs

I like Steve Jordan, but my main issue with him is that he used to have the loudest snare on the planet. He really is from the James Brown school of drummers where the on and off beat is emphasized by the snare, playing only rimshots. With the Winos I often find his snare unbearable. I doubt he had a discussion with Mick and Keith on how he is required to sound, but he did change his drum set to sound more like Charlie, and he does play the snare softer than he is known for.

I liked the Stones shows I saw with Jordan on drums, he brought back a lot of energy. Charlie was fabulous, but in 1999 he really started to lack in the energy department.

This is Jordan drumming with Brown. You hardly see him, but this is a master lesson soul and dance drumming.

[www.youtube.com]

Mathijs

Drumming style and drum sound are two different things...though the latter should serve the former.

A mate of mine was the drummer in well known 80s metal band...but he worshipped Charlie Watts.

He always said the Charlie's snare sound had what he called "bullet" .

Few drummers seam to have that...either because they're aiming for a different sound and attack or because, for them, it just doesn't happen.

Charlie often changed the sound of his snare drum and the way he played it.
On the SW tour his snare drum had a dry and clear sound, on the VL tour it was completely different, they were two different snare drums.
Furthermore he doesn't use the same technique in all the songs.
However, I have always liked Steve J.'s style too, but I find it pointless to make comparisons.

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Testify
Charlie often changed the sound of his snare drum and the way he played it.
On the SW tour his snare drum had a dry and clear sound, on the VL tour it was completely different, they were two different snare drums.
Furthermore he doesn't use the same technique in all the songs.
However, I have always liked Steve J.'s style too, but I find it pointless to make comparisons.

I believe Charlie had a metal snare for the SW/UJ tour, then went to a pretty deep wooden snare for the VL tour. He started using DW wooden snares from the late 90's if I'm correct. Charlies snare sound surely changed/developed through his career.

[www.reverbnation.com]

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Spud
Drumming style and drum sound are two different things...though the latter should serve the former.

A mate of mine was the drummer in well known 80s metal band...but he worshipped Charlie Watts.

He always said the Charlie's snare sound had what he called "bullet" .

Few drummers seam to have that...either because they're aiming for a different sound and attack or because, for them, it just doesn't happen.

My drummer friend calls it “pop.” Charlie’s was unmistakable.

They should have auditioned other drummers, heck with a basic kit you could of used Ringo Starr. Kenny Jones would have been a great drummer for the Stones but he's too fast and the band can't hang with him.

You can't replace Charlie with anyone, since you have to do it, you do it not so much for how he plays (Steve J. is a professional and knows how to play the drums), but you do it based on other evaluations, friendship, ability to stay in a group etc.
These are the parameters that the Stones have used from the mid-70s onwards when they have to replace someone.
They did it for Ronnie, completely different from Taylor, they did it for Darryl Jones completely different from Bill and they did it with Steve different from Charlie.
They always have.

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audun-eg

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Testify
Charlie often changed the sound of his snare drum and the way he played it.
On the SW tour his snare drum had a dry and clear sound, on the VL tour it was completely different, they were two different snare drums.
Furthermore he doesn't use the same technique in all the songs.
However, I have always liked Steve J.'s style too, but I find it pointless to make comparisons.

I believe Charlie had a metal snare for the SW/UJ tour, then went to a pretty deep wooden snare for the VL tour. He started using DW wooden snares from the late 90's if I'm correct. Charlies snare sound surely changed/developed through his career.

DW started making and distributing Gretsch in 2015. The factory is still in Ridgeland, South Carolina.

What are Jordan's drums? I haven't gotten a good look at them.

In the 1980s Charlie's snare was a Ludwig 402 or Super Sensitive.

Drummer here.

Steve Jordan is a great drummer and plays Charlie's parts very true to Charlie's style, and when not, more true to the original sound, such as during It's Only Rock and Roll. I don't think you can judge the sound of Steve's snare based on the YouTube recordings that are shared online. Steve's signature sound (listen to the Winos recordings, both studio and live), is VERY rim heavy and snappy.

We all love Charlie, but truth be told, he was kind of famously lazy as a drummer, for better or for worse. Steve is a different guy, a different drummer, but one who respects Charlie and Charlie's style tremendously.

My humblest opinion: Steve's playing keeps the band sounding tighter than they've sounded in eons. Charlie was lovely and obviously part of the signature Stones sound, but he had a tendency to drag, and occasionally flub. Keith also occasionally flubs. And when they both flub, we get those lovely colossal trainwrecks that occasionally make their way onto the internets for us to gawk over. Everybody misses Charlie, but my guess is the band is quite happy with Steve.

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Tate
Drummer here.

Steve Jordan is a great drummer and plays Charlie's parts very true to Charlie's style, and when not, more true to the original sound, such as during It's Only Rock and Roll. I don't think you can judge the sound of Steve's snare based on the YouTube recordings that are shared online. Steve's signature sound (listen to the Winos recordings, both studio and live), is VERY rim heavy and snappy.

We all love Charlie, but truth be told, he was kind of famously lazy as a drummer, for better or for worse. Steve is a different guy, a different drummer, but one who respects Charlie and Charlie's style tremendously.

My humblest opinion: Steve's playing keeps the band sounding tighter than they've sounded in eons. Charlie was lovely and obviously part of the signature Stones sound, but he had a tendency to drag, and occasionally flub. Keith also occasionally flubs. And when they both flub, we get those lovely colossal trainwrecks that occasionally make their way onto the internets for us to gawk over. Everybody misses Charlie, but my guess is the band is quite happy with Steve.

I disagree, I think the band sounds very Vegas. There's no spark, it sounds more like a lounge act. Even The Who was smart enough to bring on Simon Townshend crank to out more power.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-05-03 05:05 by The Sicilian.

I think Steve sounded better on Start Me Up than he did in Houston.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-05-03 07:52 by HardRiffin.

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The Sicilian

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Tate
Drummer here.

Steve Jordan is a great drummer and plays Charlie's parts very true to Charlie's style, and when not, more true to the original sound, such as during It's Only Rock and Roll. I don't think you can judge the sound of Steve's snare based on the YouTube recordings that are shared online. Steve's signature sound (listen to the Winos recordings, both studio and live), is VERY rim heavy and snappy.

We all love Charlie, but truth be told, he was kind of famously lazy as a drummer, for better or for worse. Steve is a different guy, a different drummer, but one who respects Charlie and Charlie's style tremendously.

My humblest opinion: Steve's playing keeps the band sounding tighter than they've sounded in eons. Charlie was lovely and obviously part of the signature Stones sound, but he had a tendency to drag, and occasionally flub. Keith also occasionally flubs. And when they both flub, we get those lovely colossal trainwrecks that occasionally make their way onto the internets for us to gawk over. Everybody misses Charlie, but my guess is the band is quite happy with Steve.

I disagree, I think the band sounds very Vegas. There's no spark, it sounds more like a lounge act. Even The Who was smart enough to bring on Simon Townshend crank to out more power.

Sicilian, it looks like you missed the point. And - the Stones were already a Vegas act 20 years ago - Steve Jordan has tightened things up.

Besides, saying Vegas now is equal to "this ain't my first rodeo" - extremely weak and very telling: these days nobody plays in Vegas unless they're good, very good, or, you know, great.

It's a whole new thang now.

And people that say "this ain't my first rodeo" are not to be taken seriously.

After watching Steve in the New Orleans videos, would have loved to be there, I can't help but be impressed with his drumming. Good stuff! I'm not into the technicalities, but he's pumping good with a really positive vibe.

-



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-05-03 13:30 by yeababyyea.

..............The scrutiny of Charlie Watts and comparing him with Steve Jordan is ridiculous. There is a video of Charlie and other drummers having a round table discussion about great drummers on you tube which is about 15 years old, in it Charlie clearly compliments Jordan, and that was ages before Charlie or anyone had an inkling that the Stones would need a replacement drummer someday. Jordan works with the Stones sound, but he plays quite a bit faster than Charlie.

...............I am not a musician, but to me nobody has the signature sound of Charlie, especially the timing and incredible cymbal hits (in my opinion this is his trademark). I remember the high-hat in his kit, which I believe was strictly a jazz thing!!!!!

He also does something which I think is that he plays a beat ahead, or behind, not sure what it is, but also a trademark. All of his peers looked upon him with endless respect,deservedly so!. He was never pompous (to him the Stones were "just a band") Listen to that song on Sticky Fingers, after the song ends, he drops the sticks on the drums just so quietly & slightly, just when you thought the song was over!

A you tube link is below about other drummers commenting on him,thanks!!



[youtu.be]

Based on the first 2 shows Steve sounds a bit different (for me; not better but worse) than on 2022

I guess the case with Jordan is the same as with Darryl: both are wonderful musicians and could play circles around Charlie and Bill, but the thing is: Charlie and Bill are unique and they define what a Rolling Stones sound is all about, so anyone stepping into their shoes is naturally bounded by their doings. No matter how much Mick or Keith say, 'oh, do your own thing, don't try to copy Charlie or Bill', it's not that easy: there just are natural restrictions and basic ideas that a Rolling Stones tune asks for. Any musician knows that: you just don't fvck or mess with those fundamental elements (especially knowing that one will play with Keith Richards). I mean, it is like a five star Michelin chef entering a job at a burger joint. Yeah, one can be able to cook whatever delicious gourmet meals, but there you deliver burgers. Probably one can add some special flavor or spice for them, but your hands are pretty much bounded.

I think it is totally useless to speculate any other drummer or bass-player would do a better job there. No matter how do they sound elsewhere it is a totally irrelevant compared what they might sound like in The Rolling Stones. No one can escape the shadow of Charlie Watts and Bill Wyman. Anyone taking those spots will always think 'what would Charlie or Bill do there'. It always will be a question of a BIG compromise.

So I think both Steve and Darryl are just perfect guys for the job description almost impossible to win. I don't think there are any better guys out there.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-05-03 15:49 by Doxa.

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Doxa
I guess the case with Jordan is the same as with Darryl: both are wonderful musicians and could play circles around Charlie and Bill, but the thing is: Charlie and Bill are unique and they define what a Rolling Stones sound is all about, so anyone stepping into their shoes is naturally bounded by their doings. No matter how much Mick or Keith say, 'oh, do your own thing, don't try to copy Charlie or Bill', it's not that easy: there just are natural restrictions and basic ideas that a Rolling Stones tune asks for. Any musician knows that: you just don't fvck or mess with those fundamental elements (especially knowing that one will play with Keith Richards). I mean, it is like a five star Michelin chef entering a job at a burger joint. Yeah, one can be able to cook whatever delicious gourmet meals, but there you deliver burgers. Probably one can add some special flavor or spice for them, but your hands are pretty much bounded.

I think it is totally useless to speculate any other drummer or bass-player would do a better job there. No matter how do they sound elsewhere it is a totally irrelevant compared what they might sound like in The Rolling Stones. No one can escape the shadow of Charlie Watts and Bill Wyman. Anyone taking those spots will always think 'what would Charlie or Bill do there'. It always will be a question of a BIG compromise.

So I think both Steve and Darryl are just perfect guys for the job description almost impossible to win. I don't think there are any better guys out there.

- Doxa

AND...even if there are better guys, how much better could they be to make enough of a difference, and where in the world could you find them and with how much effort, and would they get along in the group? So many variables.

It's just so tiresome all the complaining. It's a 60+ year old uberband still recording new music and on tour, and some people just can't see it as a win.

"Keith's only got one song, I'm outta here!". Really.

That is about as "glass half empty" as I've ever seen.