1 - Tattoo You - Worried About You
2 - Undercover - She Was Hot
3 - B2 Babylon - Anybody Seen My Baby
4 - Emotional Rescue - Emotional Rescue
5 - Hackney Diamonds - Driving me too Hard
6 - Blue and Lonesome - Little Rain
7 - Steel Wheels - Speed of Light
8 - Dirty Work - Had it with You
9 - Bigger Bang - Rain Fell Down
10 - Voodoo Lounge - Love is Strong

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Doxa

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treaclefingers

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Mathijs

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Doxa

UNDERCOVER
1983: 5/5, now: 2/5

My first brandnew studio album since becoming a fan. Sounded wonderful first. But its charm disappeared within a year or two. Nice band effort but pretty weak song material. It's flirting with new sounds sounds like a make-up thing, no substance.

Blasphemy!

Mathijs

And my question of Doxa would be, what are the songs that had him change his opinion and drag this to such a low, or rather, "which songs did you previously enjoy now suck?".

Undercover Of The Night has to be a 4 or 5 star (5 for me), with the remainder 3s or 4s (Too Tough, All The Way Down, Pain of Love, She Was Hot all very strong 4s) except Wanna Hold You which for me is the weak link, maybe a 3 - but even that isn't a bad track. Even Too Much Blood is clever and has dark humour going for it.

I think there is a vibe throughout that holds all the material together very well.

I regard to UNDERCOVER I think it is both the most discussed and most controversial album here at IORR. There are some fans that see it as a (hidden) masterpiece and some others as a major miss (a symptom of their mid-80's downhill). I guess some of that is to do with the generation of fans - its lovers are basically brand new fans from that period (There are probably many of them, and I am probably an exception among them)). For the rest it - coming prior or after - might be 'too 80's'. It is their worst doing album in Spotify, for example.

Anyway, I have mixed feelings about the album. There are lots of great things going on - like in any Stones album - but it just lacks something. The title track and "She Was Hot" are great songs, and I think the most adventurous track "Too Much Blood" works pretty well (probably the only song I like nowadays more now than back then). But the rest of it is just loose jams based on so-so riffs ("Tie You Up", Feel On Baby", "Pretty Beat Up", "All The Way Down") or just not-that-inspired song-writing ("Wanna Hold You", "Too Tough", "It Must Be Hell"). Yeah, some great musicianship but that doesn't compensate great song-writing and point (I guess I once thought it did until the illusion disappeared). I think it has run out of Pathe Marconi era magic and freshness. But that doesn't mean any of those are any weak songs. No, they are just fine, but, you know, this band can do better.

- Doxa

Really good points. UC does seem split up fans. maybe because it is right there on the dividing line. It is either the last of the real, band efforts. Or it is the beginning of the fractured band state.
I like a lot of it - esp Sly and Robbie. But the best thing is that it still has a sense of humor.
And I do feel that with a stronger closing number the whole album would resonate much stronger. "Must Be Hell' IMo is the worst track of the album.

UNDERCOVER is certainly dated - but at least in a cool and minor way. The percussive aspects in Undercover Of The Night and Feel On Baby were never repeated. And there's no awful... plastic sounding music. Kitsch, sure (Too Much Blood) but at least it moves.

Argument: Winning Ugly and Back To Zero. And that other one, the "hard rock" song of the album, whatever it's called. Oh. Hold Back. Yes - please hold back the fakery.

Terrible. Where Keith and Ronnie shine guitar wise Mick takes the Mick with his "singing".

Atrocious.

Winning Ugly, minus the fantastic guitar playing, is horrendous: it gives way to how Mick wrote Let's Work. Possibly Mick's worst lyrics ever (with The Rolling Stones, then as a solo artist - that trash came from the guy that wrote the lyrics to 2000 Light Years, 2000 Man, She's A Rainbow, Dandelion, Street Fighting Man, Jumpin' Jack Flash, Midnight Rambler, Sympathy For The Devil, Jigsaw Puzzle, Gimme Shelter, Monkey Man, Sister Morphine, CYHMK, Brown Sugar, Sway, Wild Horses and etc!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????).


The Paris recorded trilogy of SOME GIRLS, EMOTIONAL RESCUE and UNDERCOVER bookend their last gasp of creativity as a functioning band with mostly functioning songwriters.

DIRTY WORK is the little guy at the end of Bullwinkle sweeping up the mess: a disaster best picked up and thrown away. DW is an insult to the previous three albums.

DW should always be ranked their worst album - their bullshit hype about how good it was was strictly, as Keith said about SUCKING IN THE SEVENTIES, giving in to record label demands, and if there was a way to delete it from their discography, absolutely.

Not sure I could spare the energy to hate DW quite that much !

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Spud
Not sure I could spare the energy to hate DW quite that much !

- One Hit: fantastic. And the last time they wrote a rocker that is both typically Stones and still new and different.
- Fight: chaotic but not bad.
- Harlem Shuffle: good
- Don't Hold Back: terrible, terrible, terrible
- Too Rude: doesn't work

- Winning Ugly: great guitars, great bass lines but wrong bass sound, great vocals and melody, very bad sound production
- Back to zero: high up in the list of their all time worst, an absolute embarrassment, comparable to Sweet Neocon and Sing This All Together.
- Dirty Work: boring and predictable
- Had it with you: boring and predictable
- Sleep Tonight: good

<Dirty Work: boring and predictable>

Yes and no, I'd say. Surely, none of us predicted the funky rap part with the reggae-ish guitars the first time we heard it

The rest is (good) Stones by numbers.

I'm not suggesting anyone on here thinks like this (God forbid), but I often wonder how much of the hate for Dirty Work is determined by influence.

You know, like how it is for some reason fashionable online for everyone to hate Coldplay, Nickelback, U2, Chris Martin and James Corden - despite all these things being hugely (and evidently) popular and successful.

I do understand that a lot of people genuinely don't like it, but I also wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the same people had never really given it much of a chance - just like I am sure a lot of Nickelback haters have never really listened to Nickelback.

I really like Dirty Work - it's not their best, but it is SO far from their worst.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025-02-06 12:46 by Barkerboy2.

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Barkerboy2
I'm not suggesting anyone on here thinks like this (God forbid), but I often wonder how much of the hate for Dirty Work is determined by influence.

You know, like how it is for some reason fashionable online for everyone to hate Coldplay, Nickelback, U2, Chris Martin and James Corden - despite all these things being hugely (and evidently) popular and successful.

I do understand that a lot of people genuinely don't like it, but I also wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the same people had never really given it much of a chance - just like I am sure a lot of Nickelback haters have never really listened to Nickelback.

I really like Dirty Work - it's not their best, but it is SO far from their worst.

I am quite sure you are right.

And I think it was also true in the pre-internet era.

On the other hand, he who is without sin can cast the first stone: I myself can't stand Coldplay, have never listened to Nicleback, think that dating Gwyneth Paltrow is Chris Martin's only merit and am not abig U2 fan.

But I do like Dirty Work.

And I also think that even if Dirty Work was the worst Stones album, it still would be a damn good album by itself.


C

Tattoo You
Undercover
Hackney Diamonds
Bridges to Babylon
Blue and Lonesome
Steel Wheels
Voodoo Lounge
Emotional Rescue
Dirty Work
A Bigger Bang

1. Steel Wheels - Mixed Emotions
2. Tattoo You - Slave
3. Voodoo Lounge - Love Is Strong
4. Hackney Diamonds - Dreamy Skies
5. Undercover - Tie You Up (The Pain Of Love)
6. Emotional Rescue - Let Me Go
7. Dirty Work - Back To Zero
8. Bridges To Babylon - Gunface
9. Blue & Lonesome - Ride 'Em On Down
10.A Bigger Bang - Biggest Mistake

Not a definitive order per se, but I think this is an average of my love for these albums.

When driving to my work this morning, Mixed Emotions played on the radio. I put the volume up loud and heard those fantastic cannonball drums by Charlie (and timing), the Wyman-bass, the slamming guitar by Keith, the singing by Mick (hard in the verses, soulful and melodic in the chorus). It reminded me in an instant to how much I love Steel Wheels. It has so much rock, roll and even soul. Beautiful melodies, soulful harmonies, terrific and tasteful electric and acoustic guitars. Every time every song on this album gets under my skin (goosebumps).

I grew up with this album and from there on learned about The Stones. Every other period I have another favorite album by the Stones (say from Beggars on). So I cannot give stars to the albums. Out of the whole official released cataloque I really really only dislike one song: Streets Of Love. I cannot detest that one :-(. Everything is off about this song, it does not sound Stones, for me that is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-02-06 14:04 by Muddyw.

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Nankstone
OK, after a few new and changed votes I updated again.
I couldn't count around 10 votes because there was no clear order, or only 4-9 albums were listed, not 10.

1. I've count only the clear ten album voters and vote's with a clear ranking
2. best album = 10 points ... last album per membercount = 1 point
3. counted the most recent votes from members who changed their minds

Here is the result after 49 votes:
01. Tattoo You --------- 451
02. Undercover --------- 308
03. Emotional Rescue ---- 305
04. Hackney Diamonds --- 301
05. Bridges To Babylon --- 276
06. Voodoo Lounge ------ 264
07. Steel Wheels -------- 259
08. Blue & Lonesome ---- 223
09. A Bigger Bang ------ 180
10. Dirty Work --------- 129

very close between 2nd - 4th place, but a very clear number 1

Interesting and thanks for compiling that. While there are varied opinions on what is better than what, it seems at least that the top 4 are clear.

I personally agree with those picks, and am a little surprised that both Bridges and VL are ranked higher than Steel Wheels but I suppose the numbers are fairly tight in that group.

Bottom 3 also seem pretty clear with worst, Dirty Work a fair distance from ABB.

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Doxa

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treaclefingers

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Mathijs

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Doxa

UNDERCOVER
1983: 5/5, now: 2/5

My first brandnew studio album since becoming a fan. Sounded wonderful first. But its charm disappeared within a year or two. Nice band effort but pretty weak song material. It's flirting with new sounds sounds like a make-up thing, no substance.

Blasphemy!

Mathijs

And my question of Doxa would be, what are the songs that had him change his opinion and drag this to such a low, or rather, "which songs did you previously enjoy now suck?".

Undercover Of The Night has to be a 4 or 5 star (5 for me), with the remainder 3s or 4s (Too Tough, All The Way Down, Pain of Love, She Was Hot all very strong 4s) except Wanna Hold You which for me is the weak link, maybe a 3 - but even that isn't a bad track. Even Too Much Blood is clever and has dark humour going for it.

I think there is a vibe throughout that holds all the material together very well.

I regard to UNDERCOVER I think it is both the most discussed and most controversial album here at IORR. There are some fans that see it as a (hidden) masterpiece and some others as a major miss (a symptom of their mid-80's downhill). I guess some of that is to do with the generation of fans - its lovers are basically brand new fans from that period (There are probably many of them, and I am probably an exception among them)). For the rest it - coming prior or after - might be 'too 80's'. It is their worst doing album in Spotify, for example.

Anyway, I have mixed feelings about the album. There are lots of great things going on - like in any Stones album - but it just lacks something. The title track and "She Was Hot" are great songs, and I think the most adventurous track "Too Much Blood" works pretty well (probably the only song I like nowadays more now than back then). But the rest of it is just loose jams based on so-so riffs ("Tie You Up", Feel On Baby", "Pretty Beat Up", "All The Way Down") or just not-that-inspired song-writing ("Wanna Hold You", "Too Tough", "It Must Be Hell"). Yeah, some great musicianship but that doesn't compensate great song-writing and point (I guess I once thought it did until the illusion disappeared). I think it has run out of Pathe Marconi era magic and freshness. But that doesn't mean any of those are any weak songs. No, they are just fine, but, you know, this band can do better.

- Doxa

OK thanks for that Doxa, I was just curious and I understood that was an early album for you, as it was for me.

I still like Undercover very much. I remember listening to it in the day, end to end incessantly like I used to do with each new Stones album. Did the same with Dirty Work and unfortunately that one just got worse for me with each listen.

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DandelionPowderman


Yes and no, I'd say. Surely, none of us predicted the funky rap part with the reggae-ish guitars the first time we heard it

The rest is (good) Stones by numbers.

Ok, true, you're right. But that odd break doesn't really help to improve the song.

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matxil

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DandelionPowderman


Yes and no, I'd say. Surely, none of us predicted the funky rap part with the reggae-ish guitars the first time we heard it

The rest is (good) Stones by numbers.

Ok, true, you're right. But that odd break doesn't really help to improve the song.

I find DW a clever - and very well performed - variation on the Some Girls / Emotional Rescue rockers formula.

C

Weird take: I listened to B & L once and never again (I did like a song or 2) - really weird since I love The Stones and the blues.

I also love the song Dirty Work - nice weave there.

So here my list:

Tattoo
Hackney
Voodoo
Steel Wheels
Bridges
Emotional
Undercover
Dirty Work
Bang
B & L

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liddas

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matxil

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DandelionPowderman


Yes and no, I'd say. Surely, none of us predicted the funky rap part with the reggae-ish guitars the first time we heard it

The rest is (good) Stones by numbers.

Ok, true, you're right. But that odd break doesn't really help to improve the song.

I find DW a clever - and very well performed - variation on the Some Girls / Emotional Rescue rockers formula.

C

... and it's a hell of a great album to work out to in the gym. Dirty Work, Fight, Hold Back and One Hit are ace for sweating it out

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MadMax

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liddas

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matxil

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DandelionPowderman


Yes and no, I'd say. Surely, none of us predicted the funky rap part with the reggae-ish guitars the first time we heard it

The rest is (good) Stones by numbers.

Ok, true, you're right. But that odd break doesn't really help to improve the song.

I find DW a clever - and very well performed - variation on the Some Girls / Emotional Rescue rockers formula.

C

... and it's a hell of a great album to work out to in the gym. Dirty Work, Fight, Hold Back and One Hit are ace for sweating it out

That makes me recall Olga...><

- Doxa

But I think the song "Dirty Work" is one of the best things on the album. The musicianship - especially the guitar department - is stellar there. And I think the 'odd break' people here talk belongs essentially to their arsenal (and works great here) You know, they did things like that in "If You Can't Rock Me", "100 Years Ago", "Can't You Hear Ne Knocking"... You know, out of sudden, the song having like a new essence. I like this sort of unpredictability a lot. They can do that so naturally. Not anyone can or dares.

It is unfortunate that there are some pretty cheap features and choices both lyrically and musically there - well, about anything between the strong first verse and the 'odd break'. But generally it rocks and ROLLS like hell. It has more natural spark and edge than I think anything on UNDERCOVER. The way Mick starts singing it - so sharp, high, strong and distinctive - is something he had not done since EXILE days. Unfortunately it only lasts the first verse or so. Then his delivery like the whole song losts its focus and point.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025-02-06 21:31 by Doxa.

..poor "Dirty work " always so underrated...!

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Barkerboy2
I'm not suggesting anyone on here thinks like this (God forbid), but I often wonder how much of the hate for Dirty Work is determined by influence...

Influence from where? Which online forum existed in 1985 where this was discussed?

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LeonidP

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Barkerboy2
I'm not suggesting anyone on here thinks like this (God forbid), but I often wonder how much of the hate for Dirty Work is determined by influence...

Influence from where? Which online forum existed in 1985 where this was discussed?

The influence can derive from anywhere. You know, when I started to dig The Stones back in 1981/82 I get to know that their worst album and a total disaster is THEIR SATANIC MJESTIES. This was the impression I had based on, say, music papers, books, elder fans, etc. It was like a 'common truth'. Nowadays that's not the case. It is more like 'the album is so much better than its reputation' (and no one thinks - thankfully - any longer that SGT. PEPPER is the best album ever done). The loathed, contrast album now is DIRTY WORK. Probably that is more an 'IORRean truth'. I am not do sure anyone else outside hardcore fans really thinks so or cares/knows about that. No one outside the hardcore fanbase really cares about post-TATTOO YOU albums, or sees there any real variation in quality.

I think there once upon time ago was a musical argument (although a wrong one) why SATANIC MAJESTIES was seen as their 'worst' album. Because it sounded so 'different' and 'un-Stonesy' and whatever. But for DIRTY WORK being that worse than, say, VOODOO LOUNGE or A BIGGER BANG is just a matter of semantics, there is no really any specific musical argument with a substance. Just some contingent feelings why it supposed be so much worse than some of their other albums. But it is not!

- Doxa



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2025-02-06 23:43 by Doxa.

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Doxa

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MadMax

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liddas

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matxil

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DandelionPowderman


Yes and no, I'd say. Surely, none of us predicted the funky rap part with the reggae-ish guitars the first time we heard it

The rest is (good) Stones by numbers.

Ok, true, you're right. But that odd break doesn't really help to improve the song.

I find DW a clever - and very well performed - variation on the Some Girls / Emotional Rescue rockers formula.

C

... and it's a hell of a great album to work out to in the gym. Dirty Work, Fight, Hold Back and One Hit are ace for sweating it out

That makes me recall Olga...><

- Doxa

I actually wore that t-shirt today as I was doing the laundry!!! Hilarious!!

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MadMax

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liddas

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matxil

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DandelionPowderman


Yes and no, I'd say. Surely, none of us predicted the funky rap part with the reggae-ish guitars the first time we heard it

The rest is (good) Stones by numbers.

Ok, true, you're right. But that odd break doesn't really help to improve the song.

I find DW a clever - and very well performed - variation on the Some Girls / Emotional Rescue rockers formula.

C

... and it's a hell of a great album to work out to in the gym. Dirty Work, Fight, Hold Back and One Hit are ace for sweating it out

At my age, Goats Head Soup or Black and Blue are for the gym...and I'll skip past Star Star and Silver Train!

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jp.M
..poor "Dirty work " always so underrated...!

Maybe there is a need for Make Dirty Work Great Again movement, but I still think - especially for non-vinyl listeners - the sequence of songs from "Hold Back" via "Too Rude" and "Winning Ugly" to "Back to Zero" has no comparison in recorded Stones history.. one needs specific (Olga trained?)muscles to get through that... The rest of the songs are alright, though.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-02-07 00:20 by Doxa.

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Spud
Not sure I could spare the energy to hate DW quite that much !

It requires zero energy.

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Barkerboy2
I'm not suggesting anyone on here thinks like this (God forbid), but I often wonder how much of the hate for Dirty Work is determined by influence.

You know, like how it is for some reason fashionable online for everyone to hate Coldplay, Nickelback, U2, Chris Martin and James Corden - despite all these things being hugely (and evidently) popular and successful.

I do understand that a lot of people genuinely don't like it, but I also wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the same people had never really given it much of a chance - just like I am sure a lot of Nickelback haters have never really listened to Nickelback.

I really like Dirty Work - it's not their best, but it is SO far from their worst.

It is their worst. Their second worst is TSMR. As with DW, an EP would've sufficed. At least with TSMR they can say they were fried, too stoned, manager left... they have zero excuse for the pitiful DW, an album that can't even imitate The Rolling Stones with exception to One Hit.

Even if they'd had a great producer the songs weren't there, the production was dismal and, well, the songs weren't there.

When I heard Harlem Shuffle I thought, oh cool! It really is excellent.

Then DW came out, I got it home and the more I looked at it the more I thought, huh? The first few months I was excited about a new Stones album but by the time PRIMITIVE COOL came out, with Throwaway, Kow Tow, Peace For The Wicked and Say You Will, things weren't looking good, and it was back to being buried in GYYYO and HOT ROCKS, TATTOO YOU, UNDERCOVER and REWIND.

Let's Work, Party Doll, the title track and War Baby - WTF. Horrible.

So... I appreciate how bad DW is. The only influence of how bad it is is from The Rolling Stones, no one or anything else.

1. Tattoo You 
2. Emotional Rescue
3. A Bigger Bang
4. Dirty Work
5. Hackney Diamonds
6. Bridges To Babylon
7. Undercover
8. Voodoo Lounge
9. Steel Wheels
10. Blue And Lonesome

The Top 2 were easy, as were the bottom 4, but 3-6 were trickier for me. DW is so underrated!

Cheers
Richard - In Another Land

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Doxa

The influence can derive from anywhere. You know, when I started to dig The Stones back in 1981/82 I get to know that their worst album and a total disaster is THEIR SATANIC MJESTIES. This was the impression I had based on, say, music papers, books, elder fans, etc. It was like a 'common truth'. Nowadays that's not the case. It is more like 'the album is so much better than its reputation' (and no one thinks - thankfully - any longer that SGT. PEPPER is the best album ever done). The loathed, contrast album now is DIRTY WORK. Probably that is more an 'IORRean truth'. I am not do sure anyone else outside hardcore fans really thinks so or cares/knows about that. No one outside the hardcore fanbase really cares about post-TATTOO YOU albums, or sees there any real variation in quality.

I think there once upon time ago was a musical argument (although a wrong one) why SATANIC MAJESTIES was seen as their 'worst' album. Because it sounded so 'different' and 'un-Stonesy' and whatever. But for DIRTY WORK being that worse than, say, VOODOO LOUNGE or A BIGGER BANG is just a matter of semantics, there is no really any specific musical argument with a substance. Just some contingent feelings why it supposed be so much worse than some of their other albums. But it is not!

- Doxa

In the end, a few bad songs can drag an entire album down.
There's great stuff on TSMR, but who wants to listen to Sing This All Together or On With The Show? Great stuff like Citadel and Rainbow will not save the album.
And with DW happens the same thing. There's great stuff on DW. But who wants to listen to Back To Zero or Hold Back? Take a few songs away from DW and the album as a whole would be much more appreciated.
The same, but in lesser degree, goes for Undercover. Great songs on it but my overall appreciation is less positive because of 3 or 4 mediocre songs on it.
And I think there are real musical substantial arguments to show that Back To Zero really is an absolute piece of s***.

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LeonidP

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Barkerboy2
I'm not suggesting anyone on here thinks like this (God forbid), but I often wonder how much of the hate for Dirty Work is determined by influence...

Influence from where? Which online forum existed in 1985 where this was discussed?

I'm talking about now. As I said in my original post, I am sure some people genuinely don't like it.

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GasLightStreet

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Barkerboy2
I'm not suggesting anyone on here thinks like this (God forbid), but I often wonder how much of the hate for Dirty Work is determined by influence.

You know, like how it is for some reason fashionable online for everyone to hate Coldplay, Nickelback, U2, Chris Martin and James Corden - despite all these things being hugely (and evidently) popular and successful.

I do understand that a lot of people genuinely don't like it, but I also wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the same people had never really given it much of a chance - just like I am sure a lot of Nickelback haters have never really listened to Nickelback.

I really like Dirty Work - it's not their best, but it is SO far from their worst.

It is their worst. Their second worst is TSMR. As with DW, an EP would've sufficed. At least with TSMR they can say they were fried, too stoned, manager left... they have zero excuse for the pitiful DW, an album that can't even imitate The Rolling Stones with exception to One Hit.

Even if they'd had a great producer the songs weren't there, the production was dismal and, well, the songs weren't there.

When I heard Harlem Shuffle I thought, oh cool! It really is excellent.

Then DW came out, I got it home and the more I looked at it the more I thought, huh? The first few months I was excited about a new Stones album but by the time PRIMITIVE COOL came out, with Throwaway, Kow Tow, Peace For The Wicked and Say You Will, things weren't looking good, and it was back to being buried in GYYYO and HOT ROCKS, TATTOO YOU, UNDERCOVER and REWIND.

Let's Work, Party Doll, the title track and War Baby - WTF. Horrible.

So... I appreciate how bad DW is. The only influence of how bad it is is from The Rolling Stones, no one or anything else.

Unfortunately, you are incorrect.
You should have said it is their worst album 'in my opinion'. Then your post would have had more weight to it.