Insipred by the Exile Mastering post, I want to ask you which cd version of SF do you like best? I have the three of them and I think I prefer Virgin.

I don't like the Universal at all, the Virgin is quite good (but not on the same level as the Exile Virgin CD imo) and I don't really know the CBS that well.
For me - same as with the Exile Artisan cut - everything changed after I got my hands on a UK TML LP...

Quote
Nellcote1971
I don't like the Universal at all, the Virgin is quite good (but not on the same level as the Exile Virgin CD imo) and I don't really know the CBS that well.
For me - same as with the Exile Artisan cut - everything changed after I got my hands on a UK TML LP...

Really intrigued about the Virgin Exile . I havent listened it since 2010, I assumed the Universal one was very similar...

I remember getting both Sticky and Exile cassettes during a high school trip to Argentina when I was 16 back in 1995.I will never forget the tall brunette argentinian young woman in the small record store in Bariloche with brown eyes and black leather jacket . And that smile as she handed me my Exile copy...Boy was I blown away. Still have them and love their warm sound



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-09 20:45 by dedospegajosos.

As a recovering audiophile and hunter for the best mastering of every album I think I can give you me two cents on that topic.

The virgin masters by Bob Ludwig sound absolutely impressive. They have a three-dimensionality and a depth that is unmatched. He really tried to let the albums sounds as good as somehow possible.

However - if you are used to the original vinyls they can sound a bit like on "viagra" - a bit blown up, a bit "hifi" sounding with accentuated bass and treble.

The CBS CD has a really weird totality to me - it's just really midrangy and almost telephony souding in comparison. However you get used to that really quickly and then it's quite natural sounding, especially the dynamics are good on this one.

The Universal remasters always get the hate and yes - they are brickwalled and compressed as modern albums are. However I don't think they're all sounding that bad. I don't like Exile at all since Steven Marcussen didn't match the equing to the original masters, however Sticky is sounding quite good and has nice eq choices that are a bit more natural than the Virgin release. Also Mr. Marcussen managed to balance all the tracks well to each other. While on the Virgin you strongly hear how the different songs were recorded in different studios, this is not as apparent here. Especially when I'm on the road and I'm listen with my earbuds I always chose this master.

I advice - just listen for yourself. You'll find the CBS and Virgin CDs cheaply on Ebay for around 5€. And the Universal masters are an all the streaming services.

Edit; Just saw you already have all three.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-09 22:06 by StonedRambler.

Thank you StonedRambler!!

Best one is the virgin worst ond is CBS

i have all three and i prefer the cbs one (i generally do with all of there albums) because it sounds closest to the vinyl to me

however the virgin version is cleaner and maybe a bit more detailed to my ears

but it loses something from the cbs version that i think is important to the this album a gritty, murky, rawness that the original vinyl release had to it

the universal is awful and outright painful to listen to at volume

I think I'm going with one of the variety of treacle fingers versions.

A few ears ago I offered here a blind test for the song, whose name should have not been mentioned by the request by bv. You know, the opening track from Sticky Fingers. Nobody bother to answer at the time. Everybody were shy and did not reveal their preferences. Let's try it again

There were 6 samples that were taken from:
1. Hot Rocks 2 (West Germany, 1985) London 820 142-2, the infamous 'MFSL flat transfer'
2. Hot Rocks 1964-1971 (West Germany for USA, 1986) ABKCO 66672, mastered by Andrew Loog Oldham
3. Sticky Fingers (Japan for Europe, 1986) CBS 450 195 2, this is CBS version
4. Sticky Fingers (Collector’s Edition, 1994) Virgin 7243-8-39504-2-3, Virgin version
5. Sticky Fingers (remaster 2009) Deluxe Edition, 2015 Polydor 376 483-6, Universal remaster
6. Sticky Fingers (DSD transfer, 2011) HD cutting SHM-CD Platinum, Japan 2013
Polydor UICY-40011. DSD flat transferred from UK original master tapes by Mick McKenna and Richard Whittaker at FX Copyroom, London, in 2011

I took a dice and shuffled the samples' randomly. So the number of the track from the above list does not correspond to the number of the sample. You can make a blind test and return with your answers. 'I like Sx the best, Sy sounds awful' or whatever.

Sample 1 (S1)
[www.dropbox.com]

Sample 2 (S2)
[www.dropbox.com]

Sample 3 (S3)
[www.dropbox.com]

Sample 4 (S4)
[www.dropbox.com]

Sample 5 (S5)
[www.dropbox.com]

Sample 6 (S6)
[www.dropbox.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-10 15:35 by ironbelly.

Hoping this doesn't get embarrassing... Listening on my phone I like S2 a lot... dislike S1.

S6 sounds mono !
S2 is probably the brickwalled Universal crap.
S5 the DSD transfer (I hope...this is the version I'm listening since many years)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-10 19:08 by Massimo68.

I always prefer the virgin myself.........

Virgin. I have the SHM CD UIC-79241 and it really wasn't any great improvement over the Virgin version.

Thanks ironbelly for the blind test! They're always the best.

No. 1 I found a bit boring, unexcited and "flat" sounding.

No. 2 has a great edge and energy, the guitars cut through very well. It's quite a loud master, however it doesn't sound too squashed or brickwalled too my ears.

No. 3 is a bit sharp sounding in the trebles for me.

No. 4 sounds relatively neutral to me.

No. 5 also has a great punch and energy. Also quite loud and a bit bass heavy.

I thought No. 6 sounded a lot different from the rest. A bit weird in comparison, smaller stereo image and a much more midrange heavy sound. It has a certain cohesiveness though that I like.

For me it's 2 and 5. Even when I turned down the volume to match the other track they had the most impact on me emotionally. I just felt the music here more.

I'd say 2 is Universal, 5 Virgin. 6 could be the CBS, I remember that sounding a bit like that although I didn't remember it was that extreme.

OK, here are the answers

Quote
Nellcote1971
Hoping this doesn't get embarrassing... Listening on my phone I like S2 a lot... dislike S1.

Nothing wrong with your phone, it should be like that

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Massimo68
S6 sounds mono !
S2 is probably the brickwalled Universal crap.
S5 the DSD transfer (I hope...this is the version I'm listening since many years)

S6 is almost mono, you got S2 right but not S5.

Quote
StonedRambler

I'd say 2 is Universal, 5 Virgin. 6 could be the CBS, I remember that sounding a bit like that although I didn't remember it was that extreme.

You got S2 and S5 right but missed S6.
Maybe it was not very sportive to include that S6 sample, I did it for fun, sorry.

Anyway,
Sample 1 - 2011 DSD flat transfer (DR11, peak -1.25 dB ). No wonder Nellcote1971 dislikes it on the phone and StonedRambler called it 'a bit boring, unexcited and "flat" sounding'. It is the sound of non-equalized master tape. It is the sound that was approved for further mastering and production. You have knobs on the stereo .
Sample 2 - 2009 Universal remaster (DR6, peak -0.01 dB ). Mastered by Stephen Marcussen. Loud and compressed. That is why it sounds good on the phone.
Sample 3 - 1986 CBS master (DR12, peak -1.79 dB ). Mastered by Greg Calbi. It is a bit thin on bass. This is the sound that everybody suppose to hate. But just PLAY IT LOUD!
Sample 4 - 1985 London. So called MFSL transfer (DR11, peak -1.30 dB ). Technically, it is very close to the 2011 flat transfer. No wonder StonedRambler called it neutral.
Sample 5 - 1994 Virgin (DR9, peak -0.20 dB ). Mastered by Bob Ludwig. No words here. Most of the listeners like it.
Sample 6 - 1986 ABKCO (DR12, peak -1.18 dB ). Mastered by Andrew Loog Oldham. Narrowed stereo with weird EQ choices. Kind of a thing you would like to forget . BTW, this is an example why one should not judge a song by DR only.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-11 23:31 by ironbelly.

Quote
ProfessorWolf
i have all three and i prefer the cbs one (i generally do with all of there albums) because it sounds closest to the vinyl to me

however the virgin version is cleaner and maybe a bit more detailed to my ears

but it loses something from the cbs version that i think is important to the this album a gritty, murky, rawness that the original vinyl release had to it

the universal is awful and outright painful to listen to at volume

Professor, I tend to agree with your assessment of the Virgin remaster...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024-01-11 23:45 by Sighunt.

I did a run a couple of times comparing the CBS cds to the Virgin cds and found that the Virgin cds had more depth and certain things rang clear, like horns, whereas the CBS cds were, well, ha ha, a bit flat - the vinyl transfer didn't equate to the digital in the aspect that the Virgin remasters did, remastered FOR digital.

The work Mick and Bob Ludwig on getting the Virgin remasters "right" in comparing them to the original vinyl releases created a new bar for remastering 1960s and 1970s music. It gets a bit weird after TATTOO YOU: UNDERCOVER has a little bit more bottom end, a little more oomph to it (SOME GIRLS, oddly, does not). DIRTY WORK and STEEL WHEELS sound the same, which neither are great originally by any means. At that point things had gotten a bit bright and lacking. DW sounds oddly dead and SW sounds bright yet flat at the same time.

Nothing Ludwig could do about that.

I forget where I read about Mick commenting on that. Goldmine maybe. Have not been able to find any information as to when Ludwig worked on the remasters with Mick.

This is great, thanks. Even after knowing that S2 is Universal - which I dislike on my stereo (although not as much as the Exile Universal) - I like it best on my phone with crappy/average headphones... Although Ludwig sounds good as well.

Looking forward to getting the two SHM CDs with the flat transfer (sans "K") next week.