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keefriffhards

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Doxa

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keefriffhards

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Doxa

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keefriffhards

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Doxa

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keefriffhards
Didn't realise it was a numbers game, well done then it's all yours.

What is a "numbers game"? More novel things for me. This is educational.

- Doxa

A numbers game.

The use or manipulation of statistics or figures, especially in support of an argument.

Oh, I see. Like someone once argued for the superiority of CROSSEYED HEART by pointing out that there are more pages here in IORR for it than for HACKNEY DIAMONDS. Yeah, people do funny things to back up an argument.

- Doxa

Okay Inspector Columbo, now that you mention it, it's very telling that a solo artists album generated twice as many pages of mostly positive conversations.

Doesn't mean everyone had to like it, i understand Keith's stuff isn't for everyone and those voices were heard without people resorting to insults.

Okay, when the numbers suit for you then it's alright... (Probably I might explain you what 'circular argument' means, but I guess there is no point).

But now - let's take your words at face value: tell me what "it's very telling" actually means? What those numbers actually tell? What do you want to say with that?

My guess: what you actually want to claim is that the Stones fans largely are disappointed with HACKNEY DIAMONDS. That it is not just you and a couple of others here (as we can see), but a larger phenomenon. That is what you want to claim. But that is nothing but your wishful thinking because you don't like the album (and Mick Jagger has not made the Rolling Stones fandom miserable for most of the Stones fans. Sorry that he has made it a living hell for you).

(By the way, your recollection of CH thread is, let's put it mildly, a bit selective).

- Doxa

I don't have the time or inclination for this, you completely choose to miss the point, it's OK to love or hate a particular album and comment accordingly, what's not cool is throwing baseless personal insults and ganging up on people because you don't want to hear their opinions and conversations.

And this is the big man who told me to piss off. I tell you: you can have your subjective opinions and whatever and spell them as much as you want - but if you start messing with hard facts and cold numbers in a public place to back up your campaign, be ready for a feedback. This is not some bloody political rally. Bullshit is bullshit.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025-05-24 18:05 by Doxa.

Angry

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Munichhilton
Angry

This has to be the best one word post of all time.

Going back to some praise. I sat next to another gentleman between Frankfurt to Stockholm the other day. Speaking about Stones after a while, he commented ”I love Hackney Diamonds” and that he could not believe the good effort at their age!

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Munichhilton
Angry

I have come to the conclusion by now that this actually is the best song of the album. It hasn't lost one bit of its charm. By contrast: its almost cliche-like form - so obvious, so obvious - just starts to sound more and more captivating. Like every note, turn or arrangement idea is so natural, organic and spot on - so well-thought. Like their old masterpieces once did.

Keith once said that the diamonds are born from cliches - this exactly is the case of that!

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025-05-24 18:35 by Doxa.

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Doxa

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Munichhilton
Angry

I have come to the conclusion by now that this actually is the best song of the album. It hasn't lost one bit of its charm. By contrast: its almost cliche-like form - so obvious, so obvious - just starts to sound more and more captivating. Like every note, turn or arrangement idea is so natural, organic and spot on - so well-thought. Like their old masterpieces once did.

Keith once said that the diamonds are born from cliches - this exactly is the case of that!

- Doxa

Doxa, I completely agree. Mess it up was my favorite from the start followed by SSOH that took us back in time with horns and melody. Last year? I play Angry. Almost on a daily basis. It sticks.

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tiffanyblu

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Doxa

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Munichhilton
Angry

I have come to the conclusion by now that this actually is the best song of the album. It hasn't lost one bit of its charm. By contrast: its almost cliche-like form - so obvious, so obvious - just starts to sound more and more captivating. Like every note, turn or arrangement idea is so natural, organic and spot on - so well-thought. Like their old masterpieces once did.

Keith once said that the diamonds are born from cliches - this exactly is the case of that!

- Doxa

Doxa, I completely agree. Mess it up was my favorite from the start followed by SSOH that took us back in time with horns and melody. Last year? I play Angry. Almost on a daily basis. It sticks.

I liked it to begin with but when the album came out, I sort of saw it as a lesser track, but it does stick with you and has a charm. I still love Get Close, WWW, Depending On You, SSoH more but this has it's place.

Not a duff track on the album, and the only one I find weaker is Live By The Sword, but that's only because I can't get past the lyrics which I find inane and spoil it for me.

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tiffanyblu
Going back to some praise. I sat next to another gentleman between Frankfurt to Stockholm the other day. Speaking about Stones after a while, he commented ”I love Hackney Diamonds” and that he could not believe the good effort at their age!

I could say the same!

And at the same token I cannot really judge it - you know, how it rates against their catalog. You know, best since what? Better than STEEL WHEELS or UNDERCOVER? But I think it is a sign of good and important album those kind of things are pretty meaningless. This album stands in its own foot, creates its own universe. It sounds unique - unlike anything they have done before. Not much, but enough.

And it is the latter point - it sounding different - I find its most important feature. I read all those complaints people made above that it does not sound like, say, A BIGGER BANG, STEEL WHEELS or, for god sake, MAIN OFFENDER or DIRTY WORK, its strength. Thank god it does not sound like any of those, but instead something released during the 2020s does.

Sometimes I think what it actually was like during their prime when almost every new album sounded different than the previous one. You know, back in the 60's and 70's. Then not repeating oneself was a nature of their game. And how would the fans today cope with that when nowadays almost any little nuance differing from the past hurts their ears? When everyone seem to have a very fixed idea how 'my Stones' should sound like. And if they don't, one is so disappointed. Probably the dude yelling to Dylan "Judas" was an open-minded liberal compared to the hardcore Rolling Stones fan purism of today?

Humor aside (it is not that well received here I see). My guess is that the actual artistic point of reference the band had was the bonus material for old albums (they probably didn't even recall how A BIGGER BANG sounded like). Namely, for years they had not done anything else but tried to sound like the classic Stones - now they wanted intentionally to avoid that in order to justify a new release (I consider them still having still that kind of artistic drive). I think having a new producer was essential to achieve that - to think little out of the box.

- Doxa



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2025-05-24 19:55 by Doxa.

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Doxa

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tiffanyblu
Going back to some praise. I sat next to another gentleman between Frankfurt to Stockholm the other day. Speaking about Stones after a while, he commented ”I love Hackney Diamonds” and that he could not believe the good effort at their age!

I could say the same!

And at the same token I cannot really judge it - you know, how it rates against their catalog. You know, best since what? Better than STEEL WHEELS or UNDERCOVER? But I think it is a sign of good and important album those kind of things are pretty meaningless. This album stands in its own foot, creates its own universe. It sounds unique - unlike anything they have done before. Not much, but enough.

And it is the latter point - it sounding different - I find its most important feature. I read all those complaints people made above that it does not sound like, say, A BIGGER BANG, STEEL WHEELS or, for god sake, MAIN OFFENDER or DIRTY WORK, its strength. Thank god it does not sound like any of those, but instead something released during the 2020s does.

Sometimes I think what it actually was like during their prime when almost every new album sounded different than the previous one. You know, back in the 60's and 70's. Then not repeating oneself was a nature of their game. And how would the fans today cope with that when nowadays almost any little nuance differing from the past hurts their ears? When everyone seem to have a very fixed idea how 'my Stones' should sound like. And if they don't, one is so disappointed. Probably the dude yelling to Dylan "Judas" was an open-minded liberal compared to the hardcore Rolling Stones fan purism of today?

Humor aside (it is not that well received here I see). My guess is that the actual artistic point of reference the band had was the bonus material for old albums (they probably didn't even recall how A BIGGER BANG sounded like). Namely, for years they had not done anything else but tried to sound like the classic Stones - now they wanted intentionally to avoid that in order to justify a new release (I consider them still having still that kind of artistic drive). I think having a new producer was essential to achieve that - to think little out of the box.

- Doxa

Very well argued. You flip through those 60s and 70s releases and there was growth, maturity, expansion of influences, everything that makes their back catalogue so attractive.

I'm also glad they've thrown the "have to make it a 'Stones-sounding' album" out the window, to an extent.

They went back to their roots with the B&L marker and are again evolving their sound. Not everyone will like it...too bad. There's 60 plus years of material to drown your sorrows into.

And it keeps going on; back and forth. Because maybe none of us really know what the greatest rockn roll band should do at age 80, and in this day and age.
I don't know how many times I have returned to Pete's quote at their HOF induction "Please don't grow old gracefully".
The Stones have always, since I can remember, been a step ahead of me; and I have learned.

Still a great album! Oddly Sweet Sounds is the only one that I have grown tired of, I could skip that one ... but the rest holds up very well!

i listen to hackney all the way through about twice a month and listen to a select few songs every now and then too and like the album

but i still don't get all the praise for angry and ssoh and personally find them to be the two weakest tracks on the album

to me i still hold with my initial view of angry (once the sudden jolt of excitment wore off) that it sounds like don't stop pt.2 with better lyrics and bass playing

ssoh just never has really clicked with me it should in theory be tailor made for my tastes and is not a bad song by any means and is well played with good lyrics but still somethings off with it

overall i think hackney is a good album but not much better or worse then any other album from 1989 onward just different

i'm just very happy to have it and it will always hold a special place in my heart because it was the first original album released by them after i became a fan and i waited for it since i was 16

but i have a hypothetical question for the folks who believe this album to be there best since the 1980's

in my opinion (and not a novel new or unique one) a big strength of hackney's is it was made in kinda the post cd world and they didn't need to pad it out with enough filler to fill a cd like voodoo, bayblon and bang

it's pretty short and sweet it fits easily on one record and flows well and consistently between one song and the next

if voodoo, babylon and bang were trimmed of the filler and left with the best tracks (and related b-sides) and then further edited down to under 50 minutes or maybe 45 minutes and the track order was rearranged so that the albums flow better

how would they stack up against hackney diamonds?

to me we end up with a tie between bang and hackney and voodoo and babylon being better then hackney with babylon coming out on top of the four

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ProfessorWolf
i listen to hackney all the way through about twice a month and listen to a select few songs every now and then too and like the album

but i still don't get all the praise for angry and ssoh and personally find them to be the two weakest tracks on the album

to me i still hold with my initial view of angry (once the sudden jolt of excitment wore off) that it sounds like don't stop pt.2 with better lyrics and bass playing

ssoh just never has really clicked with me it should in theory be tailor made for my tastes and is not a bad song by any means and is well played with good lyrics but still somethings off with it

overall i think hackney is a good album but not much better or worse then any other album from 1989 onward just different

i'm just very happy to have it and it will always hold a special place in my heart because it was the first original album released by them after i became a fan and i waited for it since i was 16

but i have a hypothetical question for the folks who believe this album to be there best since the 1980's

in my opinion (and not a novel new or unique one) a big strength of hackney's is it was made in kinda the post cd world and they didn't need to pad it out with enough filler to fill a cd like voodoo, bayblon and bang

it's pretty short and sweet it fits easily on one record and flows well and consistently between one song and the next

if voodoo, babylon and bang were trimmed of the filler and left with the best tracks (and related b-sides) and then further edited down to under 50 minutes or maybe 45 minutes and the track order was rearranged so that the albums flow better

how would they stack up against hackney diamonds?

to me we end up with a tie between bang and hackney and voodoo and babylon being better then hackney with babylon coming out on top of the four

Ha, the opinion of many on here for a long time.

I don't think there's any doubt that with some judicious editing, each one of those albums would have been stronger.

BUT

For me, I'd say that HD is would still be stronger than whatever resulted.

Here's an idea, if you're willing to try...list your favourite 12 tracks from each album, and even sequence them differently, and let's see side-by-side what frankenstones album would be the best (leaving HD intact of course as it has 12 cuts already).

HD is their best and most interesting creative album since BRIDGES and prior to that, UNDERCOVER. It's not an album for clown posers.

Angry is fantastic - for The Rolling Stones in the 2020s.

Better than Don't Stop, which is asleep at the wheel in comparison, and there's nothing pre or post Don't Stop that compares bombastically except Start Me Up: big memorable riffage and better lyrics.

That's certainly - a song about a car vs love? That's easy. Yet there's nothing profound about Don't Stop or Angry like there is with Start Me Up. Of the two, Angry certainly hits much better and it's become a staple in the playlist - it's impossible to listen to the Stones now without it.

Angry certainly fits in the context of the riffs and licks songs like Brown Sugar, Tumbling Dice, Heartbreaker, Crazy Mama, Miss You, Shattered, Summer Romance, Start Me Up, UOTN, She Was Hot and a few more: it's instantly identifiable.

Don't Stop is coloring within the lines. Angry is a bit weird and a thousand times better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-05-25 04:13 by GasLightStreet.

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treaclefingers

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ProfessorWolf
i listen to hackney all the way through about twice a month and listen to a select few songs every now and then too and like the album

but i still don't get all the praise for angry and ssoh and personally find them to be the two weakest tracks on the album

to me i still hold with my initial view of angry (once the sudden jolt of excitment wore off) that it sounds like don't stop pt.2 with better lyrics and bass playing

ssoh just never has really clicked with me it should in theory be tailor made for my tastes and is not a bad song by any means and is well played with good lyrics but still somethings off with it

overall i think hackney is a good album but not much better or worse then any other album from 1989 onward just different

i'm just very happy to have it and it will always hold a special place in my heart because it was the first original album released by them after i became a fan and i waited for it since i was 16

but i have a hypothetical question for the folks who believe this album to be there best since the 1980's

in my opinion (and not a novel new or unique one) a big strength of hackney's is it was made in kinda the post cd world and they didn't need to pad it out with enough filler to fill a cd like voodoo, bayblon and bang

it's pretty short and sweet it fits easily on one record and flows well and consistently between one song and the next

if voodoo, babylon and bang were trimmed of the filler and left with the best tracks (and related b-sides) and then further edited down to under 50 minutes or maybe 45 minutes and the track order was rearranged so that the albums flow better

how would they stack up against hackney diamonds?

to me we end up with a tie between bang and hackney and voodoo and babylon being better then hackney with babylon coming out on top of the four

Ha, the opinion of many on here for a long time.

I don't think there's any doubt that with some judicious editing, each one of those albums would have been stronger.

BUT

For me, I'd say that HD is would still be stronger than whatever resulted.

Here's an idea, if you're willing to try...list your favourite 12 tracks from each album, and even sequence them differently, and let's see side-by-side what frankenstones album would be the best (leaving HD intact of course as it has 12 cuts already).

as i said it's not a novel or a unique opinion

12 tracks would be to much especially for babylon (i would only be able to cut one song)

my idea is to edit and rearrange those albums into something that would comfortably fit onto one vinyl lp and flow better like hackney diamonds does and also include some of the great b-sides and other related tracks not on the albums

not set a specific number on the amount of tracks

so in that spirit

voodoo lounge

side a

1. love is strong
2. mean disposition
3. baby break it down
4. out of tears
5. moon is up

side b

1. the storm
2. suck on the jugular
3. jump on top of me
4. i go wild
5. thru and thru

bridges to babylon

side a

1. out of control
2. flip the switch
3. anybody seen my baby?
4. too tight
5. you don't have to mean it

side b

1. gunface
2. thief in the night
3. how can i stop
4. saint of me

a bigger bang

side a

1. rough justice
2. look what the cat dragged in
3. she saw me coming
4. this place is empty
5. rain fall down
6. back of my hand

side b

1. driving too fast
2. biggest mistake
3. let me down slow
4. under the radar
5. laugh, i nearly died

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GasLightStreet
HD is their best and most interesting creative album since BRIDGES and prior to that, UNDERCOVER. It's not an album for clown posers.

Angry is fantastic - for The Rolling Stones in the 2020s.

Better than Don't Stop, which is asleep at the wheel in comparison, and there's nothing pre or post Don't Stop that compares bombastically except Start Me Up: big memorable riffage and better lyrics.

That's certainly - a song about a car vs love? That's easy. Yet there's nothing profound about Don't Stop or Angry like there is with Start Me Up. Of the two, Angry certainly hits much better and it's become a staple in the playlist - it's impossible to listen to the Stones now without it.

Angry certainly fits in the context of the riffs and licks songs like Brown Sugar, Tumbling Dice, Heartbreaker, Crazy Mama, Miss You, Shattered, Summer Romance, Start Me Up, UOTN, She Was Hot and a few more: it's instantly identifiable.

Don't Stop is coloring within the lines. Angry is a bit weird and a thousand times better.

ok cool you like angry so do i

it's a good song on an album with no bad songs

but in my opinion it's the weakest song on that album and reminds me of don't stop (a song that is worst then angry) in a bad way

why am i a clown poser (whatever the hell that is)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-05-25 06:50 by ProfessorWolf.

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GasLightStreet
HD is their best and most interesting creative album since BRIDGES and prior to that, UNDERCOVER. It's not an album for clown posers.

Angry is fantastic - for The Rolling Stones in the 2020s.

Better than Don't Stop, which is asleep at the wheel in comparison, and there's nothing pre or post Don't Stop that compares bombastically except Start Me Up: big memorable riffage and better lyrics.

That's certainly - a song about a car vs love? That's easy. Yet there's nothing profound about Don't Stop or Angry like there is with Start Me Up. Of the two, Angry certainly hits much better and it's become a staple in the playlist - it's impossible to listen to the Stones now without it.

Angry certainly fits in the context of the riffs and licks songs like Brown Sugar, Tumbling Dice, Heartbreaker, Crazy Mama, Miss You, Shattered, Summer Romance, Start Me Up, UOTN, She Was Hot and a few more: it's instantly identifiable.

Don't Stop is coloring within the lines. Angry is a bit weird and a thousand times better.

You are talking about this album we waited 18 years for like it's a religion, i have no idea what you hear, to me it's pop, not very good pop when it comes to Angry with its cheesy chorus.

I think people like yourself who love Mick's solo stuff seem to be carrying the torch for HD.

I suspected Keith sold out to Mick decades ago, all HD has done is proven that suspicion.
Keith is either in denial about what I'm about to say or he's become so detached from the Stones musically that he doesn't care.

Hackney Diamonds is primarily a Jagger/ Watts solo album, Keith is promoting a majority Jagger / Watt's solo album as Stones product.

Sad to see Keith lose his way like this, at least we got ( presumably Keith's left over from Crosseyed Heart ,) Driving Me To Hard dressed up as Jagger/ Richards product, so that's Keith's kiss off i guess.

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keefriffhards

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GasLightStreet
HD is their best and most interesting creative album since BRIDGES and prior to that, UNDERCOVER. It's not an album for clown posers.

Angry is fantastic - for The Rolling Stones in the 2020s.

Better than Don't Stop, which is asleep at the wheel in comparison, and there's nothing pre or post Don't Stop that compares bombastically except Start Me Up: big memorable riffage and better lyrics.

That's certainly - a song about a car vs love? That's easy. Yet there's nothing profound about Don't Stop or Angry like there is with Start Me Up. Of the two, Angry certainly hits much better and it's become a staple in the playlist - it's impossible to listen to the Stones now without it.

Angry certainly fits in the context of the riffs and licks songs like Brown Sugar, Tumbling Dice, Heartbreaker, Crazy Mama, Miss You, Shattered, Summer Romance, Start Me Up, UOTN, She Was Hot and a few more: it's instantly identifiable.

Don't Stop is coloring within the lines. Angry is a bit weird and a thousand times better.

You are talking about this album we waited 18 years for like it's a religion, i have no idea what you hear, to me it's pop, not very good pop when it comes to Angry with its cheesy chorus.

I think people like yourself who love Mick's solo stuff seem to be carrying the torch for HD.

I suspected Keith sold out to Mick decades ago, all HD has done is proven that suspicion.
Keith is either in denial about what I'm about to say or he's become so detached from the Stones musically that he doesn't care.

Hackney Diamonds is primarily a Jagger/ Watts solo album, Keith is promoting a majority Jagger / Watt's solo album as Stones product.

Sad to see Keith lose his way like this, at least we got ( presumably Keith's left over from Crosseyed Heart ,) Driving Me To Hard dressed up as Jagger/ Richards product, so that's Keith's kiss off i guess.

well keith is the one who put down his foot and made mick release gotta get a grip and england lost as solo tracks even though mick intended them to be stones tracks

so i think he still exercises some power now and then

and yeah love it or hate it hackney has a lot of mick influence in it

i definitely wouldn't go as far as to say it's a mick solo album though

but a big reason for this is mick arrived with hundreds of demos

and keith arrived with?...

from what i understand keith likes to come up with ideas in the studio jamming with the band over long periods of time

if the rumours right now are correct they've been working in the studio in london for almost a month now

whose knows what's gonna come out of that

cheer up

I am very happy with Mick bestowing me with great songs like Whole Wide World, Sweet Sounds of Heaven.Also other good tracks fromthe album like Get Close , Angry , Depending onYou, Live By the Sword.Better than the stuff their contemporaries from the 1960s like Paul, Clapton ,and Dylan release

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ProfessorWolf

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keefriffhards

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GasLightStreet
HD is their best and most interesting creative album since BRIDGES and prior to that, UNDERCOVER. It's not an album for clown posers.

Angry is fantastic - for The Rolling Stones in the 2020s.

Better than Don't Stop, which is asleep at the wheel in comparison, and there's nothing pre or post Don't Stop that compares bombastically except Start Me Up: big memorable riffage and better lyrics.

That's certainly - a song about a car vs love? That's easy. Yet there's nothing profound about Don't Stop or Angry like there is with Start Me Up. Of the two, Angry certainly hits much better and it's become a staple in the playlist - it's impossible to listen to the Stones now without it.

Angry certainly fits in the context of the riffs and licks songs like Brown Sugar, Tumbling Dice, Heartbreaker, Crazy Mama, Miss You, Shattered, Summer Romance, Start Me Up, UOTN, She Was Hot and a few more: it's instantly identifiable.

Don't Stop is coloring within the lines. Angry is a bit weird and a thousand times better.

You are talking about this album we waited 18 years for like it's a religion, i have no idea what you hear, to me it's pop, not very good pop when it comes to Angry with its cheesy chorus.

I think people like yourself who love Mick's solo stuff seem to be carrying the torch for HD.

I suspected Keith sold out to Mick decades ago, all HD has done is proven that suspicion.
Keith is either in denial about what I'm about to say or he's become so detached from the Stones musically that he doesn't care.

Hackney Diamonds is primarily a Jagger/ Watts solo album, Keith is promoting a majority Jagger / Watt's solo album as Stones product.

Sad to see Keith lose his way like this, at least we got ( presumably Keith's left over from Crosseyed Heart ,) Driving Me To Hard dressed up as Jagger/ Richards product, so that's Keith's kiss off i guess.

well keith is the one who put down his foot and made mick release gotta get a grip and england lost as solo tracks even though mick intended them to be stones tracks

so i think he still exercises some power now and then

and yeah love it or hate it hackney has a lot of mick influence in it

i definitely wouldn't go as far as to say it's a mick solo album though

but a big reason for this is mick arrived with hundreds of demos

and keith arrived with?...

from what i understand keith likes to come up with ideas in the studio jamming with the band over long periods of time

if the rumours right now are correct they've been working in the studio in london for almost a month now

whose knows what's gonna come out of that

cheer up

Cheer up lol.
It's not like i expect much from them now, I'll take what they give, but the days of dreaming they come up with anything special are gone.
I'm getting my kicks from listening to all the magical albums we already have from the Stones, and recently finding some great artists that somehow passed me by like Mike Scott of the Waterboys for instance.
There are still some incredible artists out there that fortunately still fill my cup.

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keefriffhards

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ProfessorWolf

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keefriffhards

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GasLightStreet
HD is their best and most interesting creative album since BRIDGES and prior to that, UNDERCOVER. It's not an album for clown posers.

Angry is fantastic - for The Rolling Stones in the 2020s.

Better than Don't Stop, which is asleep at the wheel in comparison, and there's nothing pre or post Don't Stop that compares bombastically except Start Me Up: big memorable riffage and better lyrics.

That's certainly - a song about a car vs love? That's easy. Yet there's nothing profound about Don't Stop or Angry like there is with Start Me Up. Of the two, Angry certainly hits much better and it's become a staple in the playlist - it's impossible to listen to the Stones now without it.

Angry certainly fits in the context of the riffs and licks songs like Brown Sugar, Tumbling Dice, Heartbreaker, Crazy Mama, Miss You, Shattered, Summer Romance, Start Me Up, UOTN, She Was Hot and a few more: it's instantly identifiable.

Don't Stop is coloring within the lines. Angry is a bit weird and a thousand times better.

You are talking about this album we waited 18 years for like it's a religion, i have no idea what you hear, to me it's pop, not very good pop when it comes to Angry with its cheesy chorus.

I think people like yourself who love Mick's solo stuff seem to be carrying the torch for HD.

I suspected Keith sold out to Mick decades ago, all HD has done is proven that suspicion.
Keith is either in denial about what I'm about to say or he's become so detached from the Stones musically that he doesn't care.

Hackney Diamonds is primarily a Jagger/ Watts solo album, Keith is promoting a majority Jagger / Watt's solo album as Stones product.

Sad to see Keith lose his way like this, at least we got ( presumably Keith's left over from Crosseyed Heart ,) Driving Me To Hard dressed up as Jagger/ Richards product, so that's Keith's kiss off i guess.

well keith is the one who put down his foot and made mick release gotta get a grip and england lost as solo tracks even though mick intended them to be stones tracks

so i think he still exercises some power now and then

and yeah love it or hate it hackney has a lot of mick influence in it

i definitely wouldn't go as far as to say it's a mick solo album though

but a big reason for this is mick arrived with hundreds of demos

and keith arrived with?...

from what i understand keith likes to come up with ideas in the studio jamming with the band over long periods of time

if the rumours right now are correct they've been working in the studio in london for almost a month now

whose knows what's gonna come out of that

cheer up

Cheer up lol.
It's not like i expect much from them now, I'll take what they give, but the days of dreaming they come up with anything special are gone.
I'm getting my kicks from listening to all the magical albums we already have from the Stones, and recently finding some great artists that somehow passed me by like Mike Scott of the Waterboys for instance.
There are still some incredible artists out there that fortunately still fill my cup.

good as long as your happy

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ProfessorWolf

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treaclefingers

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ProfessorWolf
i listen to hackney all the way through about twice a month and listen to a select few songs every now and then too and like the album

but i still don't get all the praise for angry and ssoh and personally find them to be the two weakest tracks on the album

to me i still hold with my initial view of angry (once the sudden jolt of excitment wore off) that it sounds like don't stop pt.2 with better lyrics and bass playing

ssoh just never has really clicked with me it should in theory be tailor made for my tastes and is not a bad song by any means and is well played with good lyrics but still somethings off with it

overall i think hackney is a good album but not much better or worse then any other album from 1989 onward just different

i'm just very happy to have it and it will always hold a special place in my heart because it was the first original album released by them after i became a fan and i waited for it since i was 16

but i have a hypothetical question for the folks who believe this album to be there best since the 1980's

in my opinion (and not a novel new or unique one) a big strength of hackney's is it was made in kinda the post cd world and they didn't need to pad it out with enough filler to fill a cd like voodoo, bayblon and bang

it's pretty short and sweet it fits easily on one record and flows well and consistently between one song and the next

if voodoo, babylon and bang were trimmed of the filler and left with the best tracks (and related b-sides) and then further edited down to under 50 minutes or maybe 45 minutes and the track order was rearranged so that the albums flow better

how would they stack up against hackney diamonds?

to me we end up with a tie between bang and hackney and voodoo and babylon being better then hackney with babylon coming out on top of the four

Ha, the opinion of many on here for a long time.

I don't think there's any doubt that with some judicious editing, each one of those albums would have been stronger.

BUT

For me, I'd say that HD is would still be stronger than whatever resulted.

Here's an idea, if you're willing to try...list your favourite 12 tracks from each album, and even sequence them differently, and let's see side-by-side what frankenstones album would be the best (leaving HD intact of course as it has 12 cuts already).

as i said it's not a novel or a unique opinion

12 tracks would be to much especially for babylon (i would only be able to cut one song)

my idea is to edit and rearrange those albums into something that would comfortably fit onto one vinyl lp and flow better like hackney diamonds does and also include some of the great b-sides and other related tracks not on the albums

not set a specific number on the amount of tracks

so in that spirit

voodoo lounge

side a

1. love is strong
2. mean disposition
3. baby break it down
4. out of tears
5. moon is up

side b

1. the storm
2. suck on the jugular
3. jump on top of me
4. i go wild
5. thru and thru

bridges to babylon

side a

1. out of control
2. flip the switch
3. anybody seen my baby?
4. too tight
5. you don't have to mean it

side b

1. gunface
2. thief in the night
3. how can i stop
4. saint of me

a bigger bang

side a

1. rough justice
2. look what the cat dragged in
3. she saw me coming
4. this place is empty
5. rain fall down
6. back of my hand

side b

1. driving too fast
2. biggest mistake
3. let me down slow
4. under the radar
5. laugh, i nearly died

Thanks for that.

I'd probably have some different song choices for Voodoo, and I'd include Under The Radar, and Dangerous Beauty and take off Driving Too Fast, Look What The Cat Dragged In for ABB.

ABB in this configuration would then be closest for me to HD but it's still an easy choice for me, HD all the way.

In terms of Bridges, you have 3 great songs, OOC, Saint and Thief but still not as good as HD generally and even a trimmed version is the low rung on this 4 step ladder.

Quote
ProfessorWolf
...

the people that dislike it are entitled to there opinions and to being able to articulate it without them being told there lesser fans because of it
...

That misses the point completely. Many have expressed that the album is not their cup of tea. But a couple, one DB in particular, takes it as a personal afront that people enjoy it, and has posted probably well over 100 times in the thread how much it sucks ... as if he's either trying to convince others, or at least ruin the experience for them.

Quote
LeonidP

Quote
ProfessorWolf
...

the people that dislike it are entitled to there opinions and to being able to articulate it without them being told there lesser fans because of it
...

That misses the point completely. Many have expressed that the album is not their cup of tea. But a couple, one DB in particular, takes it as a personal afront that people enjoy it, and has posted probably well over 100 times in the thread how much it sucks ... as if he's either trying to convince others, or at least ruin the experience for them.

ok that is annoying

maybe i'm being a bit reflexive in my defensive of them

or perhaps i just dislike the petty childish name calling and insulting of each other over something that really doesn't warrant it



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-05-26 04:22 by ProfessorWolf.

Quote
treaclefingers
Thanks for that.

I'd probably have some different song choices for Voodoo, and I'd include Under The Radar, and Dangerous Beauty and take off Driving Too Fast, Look What The Cat Dragged In for ABB.

ABB in this configuration would then be closest for me to HD but it's still an easy choice for me, HD all the way.

In terms of Bridges, you have 3 great songs, OOC, Saint and Thief but still not as good as HD generally and even a trimmed version is the low rung on this 4 step ladder.

your welcome

suprised you'd pick a bigger bang as number two but in retrospect agree on replaceing those two songs

what would you've changed in voodoo lounge?

i ask because i've noticed that voodoo really really seems to divide opinion amongst us about what is and isn't the best on that album in a way that the already divisive albums that came after it don't

Quote
ProfessorWolf

Quote
treaclefingers
Thanks for that.

I'd probably have some different song choices for Voodoo, and I'd include Under The Radar, and Dangerous Beauty and take off Driving Too Fast, Look What The Cat Dragged In for ABB.

ABB in this configuration would then be closest for me to HD but it's still an easy choice for me, HD all the way.

In terms of Bridges, you have 3 great songs, OOC, Saint and Thief but still not as good as HD generally and even a trimmed version is the low rung on this 4 step ladder.

your welcome

suprised you'd pick a bigger bang as number two but in retrospect agree on replaceing those two songs

what would you've changed in voodoo lounge?

i ask because i've noticed that voodoo really really seems to divide opinion amongst us about what is and isn't the best on that album in a way that the already divisive albums that came after it don't

Here's my voodoo lounge

Love Is Strong
YGMR
Suck on the Jugular
The Worst
New Faces
Out of Tears
Sweethearts Together
Blinded By Rainbows
Baby Break It Down
Thru and Thru

Quote
treaclefingers

Quote
ProfessorWolf

Quote
treaclefingers
Thanks for that.

I'd probably have some different song choices for Voodoo, and I'd include Under The Radar, and Dangerous Beauty and take off Driving Too Fast, Look What The Cat Dragged In for ABB.

ABB in this configuration would then be closest for me to HD but it's still an easy choice for me, HD all the way.

In terms of Bridges, you have 3 great songs, OOC, Saint and Thief but still not as good as HD generally and even a trimmed version is the low rung on this 4 step ladder.

your welcome

suprised you'd pick a bigger bang as number two but in retrospect agree on replaceing those two songs

what would you've changed in voodoo lounge?

i ask because i've noticed that voodoo really really seems to divide opinion amongst us about what is and isn't the best on that album in a way that the already divisive albums that came after it don't

Here's my voodoo lounge

Love Is Strong
YGMR
Suck on the Jugular
The Worst
New Faces
Out of Tears
Sweethearts Together
Blinded By Rainbows
Baby Break It Down
Thru and Thru

wow proving my point your is almost completely different to mine

nice to see someone else who like ygmr too

i wouldn't put it on my hypothetical album but it make a great japanese bonus track or b-side

My VL:

Love Is Strong
You Got Me Rocking
Sparks Will Fly
The Worst
New Faces

Moon Is Up
Brand New Car
Out Of Tears
Baby Break It Down
Mean Disposition

Regarding HD, it's hard to fathom that people don't hear the Keith influence on songs like Get Close, Whole Wide World, Dreamy SKies, Mess It Up, Live By The Sword, Driving Me Too Hard, Tell Me Straight and, of course, Rolling Stone Blues.

How can HD be a «Mick solo album» with those songs and that guitar? Come on!

I get that the production is slick, albeit only in some places. Nobody would say that Dreamy Skies, Live By The Sword or Rolling Stone Blues is slick or modern, right?

Quote
DandelionPowderman
My VL:

Love Is Strong
You Got Me Rocking
Sparks Will Fly
The Worst
New Faces

Moon Is Up
Brand New Car
Out Of Tears
Baby Break It Down
Mean Disposition

Regarding HD, it's hard to fathom that people don't hear the Keith influence on songs like Get Close, Whole Wide World, Dreamy SKies, Mess It Up, Live By The Sword, Driving Me Too Hard, Tell Me Straight and, of course, Rolling Stone Blues.

How can HD be a «Mick solo album» with those songs and that guitar? Come on!

I get that the production is slick, albeit only in some places. Nobody would say that Dreamy Skies, Live By The Sword or Rolling Stone Blues is slick or modern, right?

no good point about those songs

and keith is all over the album but mick is the one that showed up with hundreds of demos not keith

that's not to say keith didn't then but his mark on those songs and how they developed to finished products (he clearly did)

or to say that keith is somehow creatively spent he's not as evidenced by a lot of the songs having tons of his guitar and bass playing on them that i doubt was in mick's demos and that i doubt mick or andrew showed him how to play

but mick is the origin of a lot of these songs not keith and because mick prefers to use more modern sounding production on his solo projects i can understand people feeling it has a mick feel to it (it does)

but without keith and his contributions this would have been a very different album

so yeah a bit of a stretch to call it a mick solo album

goddess in the doorway is what it sounds like there describing and frankly hd doesn't sound anything like that terrible album (sorry to those who like it)

also nice selection of songs for vl and still quite different from me or treacle's version thus giving more weight to my suspension that opinions on voodoo lounge are all over the place



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-05-26 11:16 by ProfessorWolf.

<that's not to say keith didn't then but his mark on those songs and how they developed to finished products (he clearly did)>

According to Watt (don't remember which interview), Keith was the one who spent most time in the studio, and really worked his arse off for this album (obviously, I'm paraphrasing here ).

Btw, I really wanted to include Sweethearts Together as well, but I decided 10 songs was enough.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025-05-26 11:41 by DandelionPowderman.