[variety.com]

Who knows, maybe now we'll get more true rock n' rollers into the hall of fame and less of everything but.

I mean, that was a dumb @#$%& comment.

Quote
RollingFreak
I mean, that was a dumb @#$%& comment.

It most certainly was and he apologized after the fact but such apologies never come across as sincere, at least not to me.

Quote
northof49

Quote
RollingFreak
I mean, that was a dumb @#$%& comment.

It most certainly was and he apologized after the fact but such apologies never come across as sincere, at least not to me.

Clearly he meant what he said. He was sorry that people would be offended by it.

In all honesty, how the hell does a book like that even get through as far as it did these days? I'm not saying there IS anything wrong with it (his response was worse than just not saying anything), but you gotta know that having a book about 7 white men is going to be something people will get on you about. How so many other people approved it is baffling to me.

What a pathetically ignorant comment - I have no respect for him.

what a moron

he ran arguably one of the largest and most influential music publications for over 50 years

but can't think of one prominent black or woman musician as articulate as bono?

what a moron



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-17 10:34 by ProfessorWolf.

I'd include Chuck Berry in there but plenty of white guys didn't get a look in either like Townes Van Zadant, one of the most underrated philosopher poet lyrical geniuses ever and that comment coming from Dylan himself.

Quote
keefriffhards
I'd include Chuck Berry in there but plenty of white guys didn't get a look in either like Townes Van Zadant, one of the most underrated philosopher poet lyrical geniuses ever and that comment coming from Dylan himself.

that may be so but the reason everyone's upset is not so much that he wrote a book about 7 white guys it's his explanation for why he excluded black and female performers specifically from the book

seemingly saying that black people and women weren't or are unable to be as articulate and intellectual as the 7 white guys

from the nyt interview

History will speak. This is also a history-will-speak kind of question. There are seven subjects in the new book; seven white guys. In the introduction, you acknowledge that performers of color and women performers are just not in your zeitgeist. Which to my mind is not plausible for Jann Wenner. Janis Joplin, Joni Mitchell, Stevie Nicks, Stevie Wonder, the list keeps going — not in your zeitgeist? What do you think is the deeper explanation for why you interviewed the subjects you interviewed and not other subjects?

Well, let me just. …

Carole King, Madonna. There are a million examples.

When I was referring to the zeitgeist, I was referring to Black performers, not to the female performers, OK? Just to get that accurate. The selection was not a deliberate selection. It was kind of intuitive over the years; it just fell together that way. The people had to meet a couple criteria, but it was just kind of my personal interest and love of them. Insofar as the women, just none of them were as articulate enough on this intellectual level.

Oh, stop it. You’re telling me Joni Mitchell is not articulate enough on an intellectual level?

Hold on a second.

I’ll let you rephrase that.

All right, thank you. It’s not that they’re not creative geniuses. It’s not that they’re inarticulate, although, go have a deep conversation with Grace Slick or Janis Joplin. Please, be my guest. You know, Joni was not a philosopher of rock ’n’ roll. She didn’t, in my mind, meet that test. Not by her work, not by other interviews she did. The people I interviewed were the kind of philosophers of rock.

Of Black artists — you know, Stevie Wonder, genius, right? I suppose when you use a word as broad as “masters,” the fault is using that word. Maybe Marvin Gaye, or Curtis Mayfield? I mean, they just didn’t articulate at that level.

How do you know if you didn’t give them a chance?

Because I read interviews with them. I listen to their music. I mean, look at what Pete Townshend was writing about, or Jagger, or any of them. They were deep things about a particular generation, a particular spirit and a particular attitude about rock ’n’ roll. Not that the others weren’t, but these were the ones that could really articulate it.

Don’t you think it’s actually more to do with your own interests as a fan and a listener than anything particular to the artists? I think the problem is when you start saying things like “they” or “these artists can’t.” Really, it’s a reflection of what you’re interested in more than any ability or inability on the part of these artists, isn’t it?

That was my No. 1 thing. The selection was intuitive. It was what I was interested in. You know, just for public relations sake, maybe I should have gone and found one Black and one woman artist to include here that didn’t measure up to that same historical standard, just to avert this kind of criticism. Which, I get it. I had a chance to do that. Maybe I’m old-fashioned and I don’t give a [expletive] or whatever. I wish in retrospect I could have interviewed Marvin Gaye. Maybe he’d have been the guy. Maybe Otis Redding, had he lived, would have been the guy



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-17 12:37 by ProfessorWolf.

In the UK now an advert that shows an all white family is seen as racist or lacking in diversity, 90% of advertising is black, where does it end when you stop including white people/men because they are white.

But yeah Jann is being provocative with his comments, bit of a dumb move.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-17 12:57 by keefriffhards.

Very odd turn of events, if he'd just said that he'd selected the artists he likes best I hope it would have been ok ?!

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Quote
gotdablouse
Very odd turn of events, if he'd just said that he'd selected the artists he likes best I hope it would have been ok ?!

Or that he once was in love with?

I think he is the ultimate rock snob who got what was coming to him. I subscribed to his magazine for years until it became Rock and Roll People magazine (1980s?). He's just been condescending for years about not inducting certain artists. @#$%& him.

No wonder his magazine became irrelevant.

If I understand his analysis correctly, he’s saying that he can’t come up with any black or female artists with philosophical depth? What a bunch of horsecaca.

Jimi Hendrix, Patti Smith, Allen Toussaint, Carlton Ridenhour (aka Chuck D), Gil Scott-Heron, Nina Simone, Laura Nyro, Tina Turner, Tina Weymouth, Polly Styrene, Loretta Lynn, Exene Cervenka, Bobby Womack, Booker T. Jones, Questlove, Bill Withers, Nikki Giovanni, and many others already referenced and still to be referenced.

He deserved to be sacked from the Rock & Roll Halll Of Fame’s Board Of Director’s as much for his ignorance as his insensitivity. Always struck me as a poseur anyway. Eff him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-17 20:04 by Javadave.

Somewhere, Peter Tork is smiling.

Quote
northof49
[variety.com]

Who knows, maybe now we'll get more true rock n' rollers into the hall of fame and less of everything but.

Good. Maybe we'll finally see the Monkees inducted!

Quote
Sighunt

Quote
northof49
[variety.com]

Who knows, maybe now we'll get more true rock n' rollers into the hall of fame and less of everything but.

Good. Maybe we'll finally see the Monkees inducted!

Now you're talkin'.

Quote
Sighunt

Quote
northof49
[variety.com]

Who knows, maybe now we'll get more true rock n' rollers into the hall of fame and less of everything but.

Good. Maybe we'll finally see the Monkees inducted!

And Ozzy, The Stone Roses, The Black Crows, The Cult, INXS etc.

Maybe they'll let Rock and Roll bands in now. Fingers crossed.

Quote
keefriffhards

Quote
Sighunt

Quote
northof49
[variety.com]

Who knows, maybe now we'll get more true rock n' rollers into the hall of fame and less of everything but.

Good. Maybe we'll finally see the Monkees inducted!

And Ozzy, The Stone Roses, The Black Crows, The Cult, INXS etc.

Wow !! That could be my list

Now this will taint his legacy. Rolling Stone was a wonderful magazine for a long, long time. Sure, it faded, but so did all the stars it glorified. The magazine now is geared towards youth, which is what it did in the beginning, you know, us. We WERE the youth.

But this is just idiotic. How out of touch do you have to be to not know you were going to get serious blowback? Jann was privileged for way too long, and it shows. How out of touch? Is Jethro Tull in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? Is J. Geils? But Madonna sure is.

Quote
keefriffhards
In the UK now an advert that shows an all white family is seen as racist or lacking in diversity, 90% of advertising is black, where does it end when you stop including white people/men because they are white.

But yeah Jann is being provocative with his comments, bit of a dumb move.

Nice. Although 'admitting' (political correct) Jann was "a bit dumb", a good legitimate chance to spread (totally irrelavant) right wing racist propaganda. Beautiful.

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-18 03:31 by Doxa.

Quote
ProfessorWolf
what a moron

he ran arguably one of the largest and most influential music publications for over 50 years

but can't think of one prominent black or woman musician as articulate as bono?

what a moron

I have to say that after reading that interview, I was really blown away by Wenner's arrogance and ignorance. I loved and respected Rolling Stone for many years. And these kinds of comments coming from a guy whose idols like one Mick Jagger who himself idolized the music of black artists. I certainly don't need to tell astute folks on this board that Chuck Berry wrote very topical music himself, his lyrics often times a commentary about society & norms. Very articulate and astute that Mr Berry!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-18 05:15 by Sighunt.

Quote
24FPS
Now this will taint his legacy.

It'll get him cancelled now but it'll have zero impact on his legacy lol.

Quote
RollingFreak

Quote
24FPS
Now this will taint his legacy.

It'll get him cancelled now but it'll have zero impact on his legacy lol.

His legacy will be sullied. Maybe if he's lucky they'll just say he lost his mind when he got old. He is 77. If he was misquoted, misunderstood, maybe, but what he said was really stupid. Is Bono all that deep? Joni Mitchell certainly spoke to my life and the times she lived through. Jimi Hendrix had an incredible mind that most overlooked because of his other worldly guitar playing. Such rubbish to dismiss females and blacks.

Quote
Doxa

Quote
keefriffhards
In the UK now an advert that shows an all white family is seen as racist or lacking in diversity, 90% of advertising is black, where does it end when you stop including white people/men because they are white.

But yeah Jann is being provocative with his comments, bit of a dumb move.

Nice. Although 'admitting' (political correct) Jann was "a bit dumb", a good legitimate chance to spread (totally irrelavant) right wing racist propaganda. Beautiful.

- Doxa

I thought politics was not acceptable on iorr.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-19 00:05 by keefriffhards.

Quote
Sighunt

Quote
ProfessorWolf
what a moron

he ran arguably one of the largest and most influential music publications for over 50 years

but can't think of one prominent black or woman musician as articulate as bono?

what a moron

I have to say that after reading that interview, I was really blown away by Wenner's arrogance and ignorance. I loved and respected Rolling Stone for many years. And these kinds of comments coming from a guy whose idols like one Mick Jagger who himself idolized the music of black artists. I certainly don't need to tell astute folks on this board that Chuck Berry wrote very topical music himself, his lyrics often times a commentary about society & norms. Very articulate and astute that Mr Berry!

His lyrics were very intelligent lyrics, in the ’50s when people were just singing virtually about nothing, he was writing social comment songs he was writing all kinds of songs with incredible metre to the lyrics, which influenced Dylan and me, and many other people, the metre of his lyrics was tremendous. He’s the greatest rock and roll poet and I really admire him.

john lennon about chuck berry

Chuck Berry is one of the all-time great poets, a rock poet you could call him. He was well advanced of his time lyric-wise. We all owe a lot to him, including Dylan. I’ve loved everything he’s done, ever. He was in a different class from the other performers, he was in the tradition of the great blues artists but he really wrote his own stuff – I know Richard did, but Berry really wrote stuff, just the lyrics were fantastic, even though we didn’t know what he was saying half the time.

john lennon in an interview by jann wenner in rolling stone



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-18 12:19 by ProfessorWolf.

Crap magazine... They spent way too much time talking about politics, and that content was pure garbage, there are so many better magazines out there that are deserving of attention.

RIP Rolling Stone

Quote
FrogSugar
Crap magazine... They spent way too much time talking about politics, and that content was pure garbage, there are so many better magazines out there that are deserving of attention.

RIP Rolling Stone

To clarify something,I partially agree with your assessment. I would certainly agree that Rolling Stone is not near the quality of its early years. I was an avid reader of it in the later 1960s and early to mid 1970's and I felt that the quality was cutting edge for this type of magazine compared to other standard publications at the time. Also, the other topics they covered besides music (eg politics) were very insightful and informative. I was able to gain perspectives from this magazine that I didn't get elsewhere. Just my two cents...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-18 17:20 by Sighunt.

Quote
Sighunt

Quote
FrogSugar
Crap magazine... They spent way too much time talking about politics, and that content was pure garbage, there are so many better magazines out there that are deserving of attention.

RIP Rolling Stone

To clarify something,I partially agree with your assessment. I would certainly agree that Rolling Stone is not near the quality of its early years. I was an avid reader of it in the later 1960s and early to mid 1970's and I felt that the quality was cutting edge for this type of magazine compared to other standard publications at the time. Also, the other topics they covered besides music (eg politics) were very insightful and informative. I was able to gain perspectives from this magazine that I didn't get elsewhere. Just my two cents...

I agree, Sighunt. I recall the series that covered the Patty Hearst case, from the original abduction onward. No one else was doing that.

~"Love is Strong"~