Is there any source of music transcription for Darryl Jones Stones's bass lines (music sheets in F key) ?

Bill's bass lines are a bit covered on Youtube, sometimes with notation, and the transcription is really different from what you find if you buy the music sheet, since the F key is written mostly for the piano, I guess.

I would be curious to see Darryl's bass lines on the same songs by contrast.

Why? He's just kind of noodling, adding little substance. He's there to fill a space. I'm convinced just about any competent bassist could do what he does. He played on the studio version of very few songs they've recorded and play live. He sounds like he has no emotional investment at all. When it's all said and done he'll be part of the Stones history like Bernard and Lisa Fischer. Maybe he'll take up a short paragraph, and most of that will have to do with Miles Davis.

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24FPS
Why? He's just kind of noodling, adding little substance. He's there to fill a space. I'm convinced just about any competent bassist could do what he does. He played on the studio version of very few songs they've recorded and play live. He sounds like he has no emotional investment at all. When it's all said and done he'll be part of the Stones history like Bernard and Lisa Fischer. Maybe he'll take up a short paragraph, and most of that will have to do with Miles Davis.

Possibly the biggest ignorant comment I have read on this forum.
Opinions are like a**holes - everybody has one. Obviously.

To me, Darryl is a powerhouse, doing the heavylifting. Sometimes it works musically, sometime not.
We are talking about 28 years of stage, and the heavylifting is more or less intense depending on Keith's presence on stage.
I still regret Bill's basslines, Darryl Jones" hurricane style is not my cup of tea, but he is good at what he does.
His basslines sounds totally different from Bill's, while in comparison Steve Jordan respects quite well Charlie's legacy.

A question for the bass-player's amongst us, here: what is it that Daryl Jones 'lacks' in comparison to Bill Wyman? What's 'missing' from his bass-lines, etc? I don't play bass, although I do appreciate the playing when it generally stands-out: John Entwistle and Paul McCartney being two who play quite melodic runs, for example.

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Blueranger

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24FPS
Why? He's just kind of noodling, adding little substance. He's there to fill a space. I'm convinced just about any competent bassist could do what he does. He played on the studio version of very few songs they've recorded and play live. He sounds like he has no emotional investment at all. When it's all said and done he'll be part of the Stones history like Bernard and Lisa Fischer. Maybe he'll take up a short paragraph, and most of that will have to do with Miles Davis.

Possibly the biggest ignorant comment I have read on this forum.
Opinions are like a**holes - everybody has one. Obviously.

And that is your opinion. I'd love to hear your analysis of Darryl's bass playing with the Stones. Don't just lazily tell me I'm wrong. Tell me why I'm wrong.

24fps: I don't agree with you. 'Noodling' for decades with the likes of KR and MJ is impossible. In my opinion he brings something to the table, maybe it's delicate to describe, but he does the job (and mind you, one of the hardest jobs in RS's history). Apart from the musical aspect: he is a gentleman!

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Big Al
A question for the bass-player's amongst us, here: what is it that Daryl Jones 'lacks' in comparison to Bill Wyman? What's 'missing' from his bass-lines, etc?

They play very differently, so obviously those used to Bill's bass might feel that something is "missing" with Darryl. But it is only a feeling: nothing is missing.

My opinion of course.

C

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MegabenAustralia
24fps: I don't agree with you. 'Noodling' for decades with the likes of KR and MJ is impossible. In my opinion he brings something to the table, maybe it's delicate to describe, but he does the job (and mind you, one of the hardest jobs in RS's history). Apart from the musical aspect: he is a gentleman!

Again, 'does the job'. He doesn't do the job in that he doesn't create the original spirit of the song. I think I understand an aspect of it. Bill was their equal. He was there at ground zero, right before the final piece was added in Charlie. I think Darryl has always deferred to them. A hired hand. Bill would propel the sound, or round it up when it shambled. I don't think Darryl feels comfortable doing that. He doesn't make waves and just collects his check. It works for him. And it works for the average fan. It doesn't work for the more discerning listener.

Just my ignorant opinion based on sixty-one years of listening to the band. I would love to hear an opposite opinion based on the same. Please, inform me about what is so great, or memorable about Darryl's bass playing with the Stones. I would love to have my opinion changed.

Darryl's job is to play bass, not to recreate the original spirit of the song.

Do we have to blame Mick Taylor for nor recreating the original spirit of the songs recorded with Brian Jones? Did he have to ask permission to add a solo to Midnight Rambler?

Darryl Jones is a superb musician and bassist and together with Charlie he formed a wonderful rhythm section. Great timing, tone, you name it, its there.

Then again, as noted above, he is not Bill Wyman, incidentally, another superb musician and bassist, so I understand that people can have different tastes.



C

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liddas
Darryl's job is to play bass, not to recreate the original spirit of the song.

Do we have to blame Mick Taylor for nor recreating the original spirit of the songs recorded with Brian Jones? Did he have to ask permission to add a solo to Midnight Rambler?

Darryl Jones is a superb musician and bassist and together with Charlie he formed a wonderful rhythm section. Great timing, tone, you name it, its there.

Then again, as noted above, he is not Bill Wyman, incidentally, another superb musician and bassist, so I understand that people can have different tastes.



C

Why wouldn't he try to create the original spirit of the song? Every other musician on stage with them is. Wonderful rhythm section? Everybody knows what Wyman and Watts means. You are the first one ever I've read to give a shout out to the Watts and Jones duo. It's like everyone on stage is playing one tune, and Darryl is just sort of there. Steve Jordan doesn't mimic what Charlie played, but he does hew close to the spirit of the song. And he didn't play with Miles Davis.

Again, just my opinion.

did darryl jones has a solo album?

Wondering if throughout his entire professional career Darryl has ever sang vocals whether studio or live.
Can't recall anything with the Stones or Miles Davis, but maybe for Sting?



_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-07-26 22:41 by Hairball.

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Blueranger

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24FPS
Why? He's just kind of noodling, adding little substance. He's there to fill a space. I'm convinced just about any competent bassist could do what he does. He played on the studio version of very few songs they've recorded and play live. He sounds like he has no emotional investment at all. When it's all said and done he'll be part of the Stones history like Bernard and Lisa Fischer. Maybe he'll take up a short paragraph, and most of that will have to do with Miles Davis.

Possibly the biggest ignorant comment I have read on this forum.
Opinions are like a**holes - everybody has one. Obviously.

Yes that comment is beyond ignorant. You are right Bluesranger

When I listen close to the Stones music Darryl played, I think that he could read the songs very well. Much different than 'near the knuckle Bill', no doubt.
.
I love the way he adapts to this almost creepy jazzy blues tune with Miles Davis.
No doubt Charlie Watts must have noticed Darryl's delicate interaction with the drummer :







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-07-26 23:50 by TheflyingDutchman.

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More Hot Rocks

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Blueranger

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24FPS
Why? He's just kind of noodling, adding little substance. He's there to fill a space. I'm convinced just about any competent bassist could do what he does. He played on the studio version of very few songs they've recorded and play live. He sounds like he has no emotional investment at all. When it's all said and done he'll be part of the Stones history like Bernard and Lisa Fischer. Maybe he'll take up a short paragraph, and most of that will have to do with Miles Davis.

Possibly the biggest ignorant comment I have read on this forum.
Opinions are like a**holes - everybody has one. Obviously.

Yes that comment is beyond ignorant. You are right Bluesranger

It's so beyond ignorant it actually makes sense. Still waiting for someone to properly analyze Darryl's playing with the Stones and tell me how it enhances their sound. Until then I will be blissfully ignorant.

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24FPS

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More Hot Rocks

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Blueranger

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24FPS
Why? He's just kind of noodling, adding little substance. He's there to fill a space. I'm convinced just about any competent bassist could do what he does. He played on the studio version of very few songs they've recorded and play live. He sounds like he has no emotional investment at all. When it's all said and done he'll be part of the Stones history like Bernard and Lisa Fischer. Maybe he'll take up a short paragraph, and most of that will have to do with Miles Davis.

Possibly the biggest ignorant comment I have read on this forum.

Opinions are like a**holes - everybody has one. Obviously.

Yes that comment is beyond ignorant. You are right Bluesranger

It's so beyond ignorant it actually makes sense. Still waiting for someone to properly analyze Darryl's playing with the Stones and tell me how it enhances their sound. Until then I will be blissfully ignorant.

Listen to his playing with Miles I posted; the interaction between the bass and basdrum in particular. Bill had a much more authentic rock heavy bass sound; but Darryl is roughly playing the same (root) notes as Bill did, albite a bit more accurate timing, and in general a bit dryer touch. Darryl comes from the Jazz/Fusion world; a bit sterile, zero mistakes, a bit more in-between notes but very professional imo.

For the Stones - personally- I liked a player like Bill better. But that goes for Mick Taylor as well !!

It's the interactive push and pull of the timing between the ways that Charlie, Keith and Bill felt it that gave that unique Stones swing.

We can't really criticise either Darryl or Steve for not being Bill or Charlie.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-07-27 13:20 by Spud.

But what about the music sheets?

Bill had a much more authentic rock heavy bass sound; but Darryl is roughly playing the same (root) notes as Bill did, albite a bit more accurate timing, and in general a bit dryer touch.

Bill and Darryl play the same roots notes, indeed, but Darryl often double the speed (fast , sixteenth notes when the beat is yet 120 bpm, and sometimes triplet) so you have this speedy effect. He is also more precise, "right on the beat", and dry as you note, which add to the punchy effect when he lands on the next measure. He also tends to venture more on the neck (nothing excessive).
Darryl likely uses three fingers with the right hand, not so often a pick, while Bill uses picks or the edge of his thumb, which has a quite similar "hollow" effect as a pick. Bill also use flatwound strings + pick, which is deep, hollow, combinaison. Not so sure for the strings about Darryl, because his sound is quite colorful...
As for the musical background, Bill has an English ballroom heritage, to which he quite paid tribute with the Rhythm Kings with music of the forties and fifties . His style is bumpy, often only roots and octave roots... It's not wonder some fans wished bass player Joey Spampinato (Hail! Hail! Rock 'n' Roll) replaced Bill because of his double bass style, very bumpy too, quite in the same league as Bill...

Bill is before all rythm, carving into the Stones texture, and not so much a melodic bass player, certainly not Paul McCartney, or the beautiful Ronnie Lane

But Bill is a genius in his own right.


Back to the initial topic, would be fine to compare Bill’s and Darryl’s music sheets



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-07-27 16:05 by The Joker.

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The Joker

Back to the initial topic, would be fine to compare Bill’s and Darryl’s music sheets

You have to find some freak who has the patience to sort it out and write it down.
I haven't found it yet on the internet.

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TheflyingDutchman

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The Joker

Back to the initial topic, would be fine to compare Bill’s and Darryl’s music sheets

You have to find some freak who has the patience to sort it out and write it down.
I haven't found it yet on the internet.

You right...

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The Joker
Bill had a much more authentic rock heavy bass sound; but Darryl is roughly playing the same (root) notes as Bill did, albite a bit more accurate timing, and in general a bit dryer touch.

Bill and Darryl play the same roots notes, indeed, but Darryl often double the speed (fast , sixteenth notes when the beat is yet 120 bpm, and sometimes triplet) so you have this speedy effect. He is also more precise, "right on the beat", and dry as you note, which add to the punchy effect when he lands on the next measure. He also tends to venture more on the neck (nothing excessive).
Darryl likely uses three fingers with the right hand, not so often a pick, while Bill uses picks or the edge of his thumb, which has a quite similar "hollow" effect as a pick. Bill also use flatwound strings + pick, which is deep, hollow, combinaison. Not so sure for the strings about Darryl, because his sound is quite colorful...
As for the musical background, Bill has an English ballroom heritage, to which he quite paid tribute with the Rhythm Kings with music of the forties and fifties . His style is bumpy, often only roots and octave roots... It's not wonder some fans wished bass player Joey Spampinato (Hail! Hail! Rock 'n' Roll) replaced Bill because of his double bass style, very bumpy too, quite in the same league as Bill...

Bill is before all rythm, carving into the Stones texture, and not so much a melodic bass player, certainly not Paul McCartney, or the beautiful Ronnie Lane

But Bill is a genius in his own right.


Back to the initial topic, would be fine to compare Bill’s and Darryl’s music sheets

Great post, The Joker! Regarding McCartney: am I correct in thinking that 6-string guitarists who later switch to bass, generally tend to play differently to those, like Bill, who only ever played the 4-string. What I'm clumsily trying to articulate, is whether I'm right tin my assumption that those, like McCartney, play bass in a melodic, inventive fashion, because they are - first and foremost - 6-string guitarists; not, originally, bass-player's.

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Big Al

Great post, The Joker! Regarding McCartney: am I correct in thinking that 6-string guitarists who later switch to bass, generally tend to play differently to those, like Bill, who only ever played the 4-string. What I'm clumsily trying to articulate, is whether I'm right tin my assumption that those, like McCartney, play bass in a melodic, inventive fashion, because they are - first and foremost - 6-string guitarists; not, originally, bass-player's.

I think quite the opposite.

Guitarists that pick up the bass tend to gravitate on root notes (with the occasional fills) as they would strum chords on a guitar (think of Keith Sympathy for the Devil bass).

Real bassists are used to using chord notes, so it is easier for them to come up with melodic lines.

I would say that Maccas's melodic bass style mainly derives from listening to great bassists a la James Jamerson, not from his his experience as a guitarist

C

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TheflyingDutchman
Bill had a much more authentic rock heavy bass sound; but Darryl is roughly playing the same (root) notes as Bill did, albite a bit more accurate timing, and in general a bit dryer touch.

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the joker
.... Darryl play the same roots notes, indeed, but Darryl often double the speed (fast , sixteenth notes when the beat is yet 120 bpm, and sometimes triplet) so you have this speedy effect. He is also more precise, "right on the beat", and dry as you note, which add to the punchy effect when he lands on the next measure. He also tends to venture more on the neck (nothing excessive) arryl likely uses three fingers with the right hand, not so often a pick, while Bill uses picks or the edge of his thumb, which has a quite similar "hollow" effect as a pick......

You can hear all this on the Miles track I posted.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-07-27 22:36 by TheflyingDutchman.

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Hairball
Wondering if throughout his entire professional career Darryl has ever sang vocals whether studio or live.
Can't recall anything with the Stones or Miles Davis, but maybe for Sting?

He (and Chuck) sang back up on (at least) one of the warm up-shows in 2012 when Bernard and Lisa weren't present.

Chuck is discreet but an excellent musician. He didn't replace Bill, he succeeded him with elegance and professionalism.

Stu and Nicky Hopkins, on the other hand, have no immediate successors in my opinion.

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie

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TheflyingDutchman

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TheflyingDutchman
Bill had a much more authentic rock heavy bass sound; but Darryl is roughly playing the same (root) notes as Bill did, albite a bit more accurate timing, and in general a bit dryer touch.

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the joker
.... Darryl play the same roots notes, indeed, but Darryl often double the speed (fast , sixteenth notes when the beat is yet 120 bpm, and sometimes triplet) so you have this speedy effect. He is also more precise, "right on the beat", and dry as you note, which add to the punchy effect when he lands on the next measure. He also tends to venture more on the neck (nothing excessive) arryl likely uses three fingers with the right hand, not so often a pick, while Bill uses picks or the edge of his thumb, which has a quite similar "hollow" effect as a pick......

You can hear all this on the Miles track I posted.

But who cares what he did with Miles Davis? Or how Charlie liked his jazz playing? We're talking about the Greatest ROCK AND ROLL Band in the world. And their bass has been on pause since 1993.

You make a valid point there 24FPS.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Hairball
You make a valid point there 24FPS.

Thank you. It's hard being ignorant, but I put my shoulder to it.