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Doxa
It is also interesting that I think it was when George Harrison died, Keith said something to the effect that he had a special connection to him, since he had a similar role in the band like George had. Does anyone recall the comment?

Anyway, to me it sounded odd since I had used to see The Stones as a Mick and Keith show, so Keith's role sounded more like Lennon or Cartney's. But now to think of it, it could be that Keith saw both Mick and Brian as sort of big brothers to him. And despite himself getting such a central and important role within the band, he kept viewing both Mick and Brian with an awe, and him probably feeling a bit secondary, as strange is to think it now. I mean, usually it is the first impression that matters to people no matter what happens afterwards.

Keith's pretty complex guy - and very interesting human being - if we we forget his superman image.

- Doxa

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Doxa

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retired_dog

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Doxa
Interesting thoughts here in regard to Brian vs. George and their role in their bands. And I don't see any real disagreements between what Ps37 and 24FPS say. Both right.

Yeah, the dynamics within the bands vary. Some similarities, but also some important differences. I think initially Keith's role was more closely to George's. It was Brian and Mick that had a thing over leadership. They were the Big Boys. The band was Brian's baby for sure, but Mick as a singer and a natural frontman, challenged him, willingly or non-willingly, just right from the beginning. If Brian was the one who worked his ass off to get the band going, and believed in it, and Mick more like keeping an eye on what was going on (having other options in mind), letting Brian do the dirty work, but ready to take action if needed. That is, if the band actually took off and offered him like a real career opportunity. Once that took place, he was determinate and ambitious, and there probably haven't been a band decidion without his strong opinion on it.

Keith was Mick's pal, and that friendship guaranteed his membership in the band. Although, like Keith's mother has recalled, Keith was so initually so insecure that he went to rehearsals despite being sick - he was worried if he would be replaced. Keith was like George - just happy to play a guitar in the band (and like George, being the youngest).

However, Keith got friends with Brian and soon he was like the important pawn in order to claim a leadership: the band was lead by the member who was able to team up with Keith (it looks like there were never a strong bond between Mick and Brian. There always was a sort of tension, competition and ego-play between the two). Sometimes the oddman out was Mick, but, of course, in the end it was Brian. When Oldham pushed Mick and Keith to write songs, and the band's career was based on Jagger/Richards originals, Brian's fate was sealed and dreams on leadership were gone. Keith's real leadership, like his public name and profile, next to Mick's, arose by his song-writing, as he was their main song-writer.

So, if you like, by, say, 1966 Mick and Keith were like the John and Paul of the band, The Big Boys, while Brian was doomed to act the George role of the band.

- Doxa

By 1966? No. Not in the eye of the public. Even in 1969, a large portion of the fanbase doubted that they could carry on without Brian. A situation comparable only to 1977 when Keith's future as a Stone was very doubtful. Brian's decay between 1967 to his death in 1969 wasn't very visible at the time. There were (almost) no live shows, at NME 1968 Brian still looked (and reportedly sounded) great, and Rock'n'Roll Circus was kept in the can until 1996. Brian was huge amongst fans until the very end.

Very true. What I meant by that year is that supposedly Keith had by then achieved with Mick a kind of de facto leadership in the band, since the band was so much relying on his song-writers skills. But the public eye surely didn't see that yet then. It took years for Keith to achieve that kind of public status (for his role) Brian had probably all the way until his departure and death. That's why in the eye of public Brian never was a real 'George' in his band. I mean, with The Beatles John and Paul were straight from the beginning recognized as the most important members of the band, and George with Ringo as seconds fiddle players. Brian was not, but the most famous and distinguished member in the band after Mick. That of seeing him 'George' is something we can say afterwards (since it was true, I think, behind the curtains). In a public eye, Brian was the 'Keith' of the sixties, a real Rolling Stone, a wonderful musician, a soul of the band, and an idol the fans associated themselves with.

- Doxa

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24FPS
They could have replaced him a couple years earlier and we really would have only missed No Expectations, Brian's swan song.

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VoodooLounge13
I often wonder what that Brian-Hendrix material might have sounded like……

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His Majesty

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24FPS
They could have replaced him a couple years earlier and we really would have only missed No Expectations, Brian's swan song.

Silly.

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His Majesty


But, there is only what happened and I am glad we have those circa June 1967 - May 1969 recordings with Brian on them. I actually long for more recordings from that period to become available.

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24FPS

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His Majesty


But, there is only what happened and I am glad we have those circa June 1967 - May 1969 recordings with Brian on them. I actually long for more recordings from that period to become available.

I would too. I always want to hear unreleased Brian cuts. Unfortunately he wasn't recording much noticeable guitar at this point. (Other than the obvious No Expectations, which seemed to shock the band that he could still pull it off).