So everyone who comes on here claims to be real hard core Stones fans. Well get real if everyone on here was a real fan of the Stones they would quit bitching about setlists ticket prices and what ever else. A real Stones fan would simply enjoy their shows and not complain about what they are playing. I mean after all a band with as much material as them can not possibly please everybody. Oh and yes I have seen them on this tour and they are by far still the best live performing band in the world.

who the hell are you or anyone else to dictate to someone what a 'real fan' is, based on your own narrow and absurd definition?

get real, yourself...

Thanks, Rickster, you're exactly right.

Rickster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So everyone who comes on here claims to be real
> hard core Stones fans. Well get real if everyone
> on here was a real fan of the Stones they would
> quit bitching about setlists ticket prices and
> what ever else. A real Stones fan would simply
> enjoy their shows and not complain about what they
> are playing. I mean after all a band with as much
> material as them can not possibly please
> everybody. Oh and yes I have seen them on this
> tour and they are by far still the best live
> performing band in the world.

So Stones fans are stupid if I understand your position.

No you do not understand People who are bitching about any band being great are stupid just because they may not play your favorite song when you see them does not make a bad or boreing setlist. What Im saying is most people on here are bitching is because they don't play their favorite song when there at a certain show.

Cool out Rickster..cool out...Old Abe probably summed it up best

You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.



ROCKMAN

Well get real if everyone
> on here was a real fan of the Stones they would
> quit bitching about setlists ticket prices and
> what ever else. A real Stones fan would simply

So I'll keep on bitching about set-lists and ticket prices because :
-I don't think a group who play the same old set-list every night have pleasure to play, it must be so boring for them !!! They are on automatic-pilot. Music is fun and it seems they forgot it.
-I could pay to see them in 2006 but don't want, who can attend 2005/2006 Stones shows ?? My god, you have to be fortunate !! Rock'n roll is the working-classes music, not the middle-class one.

Rickster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No you do not understand People who are bitching
> about any band being great are stupid just because
> they may not play your favorite song when you see
> them does not make a bad or boreing setlist. What
> Im saying is most people on here are bitching is
> because they don't play their favorite song when
> there at a certain show.

Not so, my friend.

"Honky Tonk Women," "Jumpin' Jack Flash," and "You Can't Always Get Want" (to name three) are huge personal favorites of mine as well as historic triumphs.

What makes the setlist "bad" or "boring" is that they've made those incredible songs seem merely pro forma--obligatory parts of a big, impersonal spectacle. And that they've been sliding into that sad state for--depending on how you assess it--sixteen to thirty-five years. Better than half of the night's setlist has been performed on virtually every tour since the 1970's!

Think about it: The Stones have been protesting that they are not an "oldies" act, that they are bored by older material and that they have benefitted in the past from breaking out of the performance strictures of mega-shows. And then they toss off what is effectively the same stadium show they've been doing since '89, with a few new songs plugged in...

That's what the Stones think they have to deliver. And how sad that one of the greatest pop music catalogues of all time continues to be hammered down to a few classic rock/oldies staples because the Stones feel that their audience only wants to be reminded of a small number of old records.

I think the Stones are losing respect for themselves, for their work and for the audience. No wonder that the shows have become so sloppy and erratic and short. If you had heard the way they desecrated "Midnight Rambler" in Charlottesville, ("disshevelled," said Mick) you'd be worrying about how to freshen the show up as well...

Well said Rev. Robert. It baffles me as to why they have to play the same parade of hits at the end of every show when they have so many other hits they just ignore. Every fan can tell when the show is coming towards the final set because they always do the same numbers at the end. Don't try and tell me that people would be upset about hearing something like The Last Time or Have You Seen Your Mother at the end of the show. I don't see other big acts with lots of hits phoning it in like the Stones do. People like Springsteen, Dylan or the Black Crows get great reviews and people love their live shows and they don't always play the same set tour after tour. The Stones have way too many great songs and hits to play the same 15 every tour along with You Got Me Rocking and another cover tune. It is sad.

Indeed well said rev.robert

Rickster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What
> Im saying is most people on here are bitching is
> because they don't play their favorite song when
> there at a certain show.

Personally, I'm bitching because it pisses off jerks like you

Rickster, I don't know what's wrong with these fake stonesfans?! Bitching about a 1 hour and 50 minute setlist. They should be glad they still can see the biggest and hardest rock and roll band in the world live in 2005!!!!!!

What's wrong with you people! I have ABB, I bought Rarities and bought A BB deluxe edition! And love it!

I dig the Stones. I love the stadium shows. I love the hits!!!

Rickster you're the best!!!

I like to see the stones in huge arena's with big smokin' women at both sides of the stage, and maybe 11 hornplayers and a huge videoscreen aswell. I would gladly pay 450 bucks for a ticket in pre- sale to see such an event.
The stones are the best!!!

Rickster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No you do not understand People who are bitching
> about any band being great are stupid just because
> they may not play your favorite song when you see
> them does not make a bad or boreing setlist. What
> Im saying is most people on here are bitching is
> because they don't play their favorite song when
> there at a certain show.


No theyre not. Personally speaking, Jumpin Jack Flash, Midnight Rambler and Gimme Shelter are my 3 favourite Stones songs - all very well known tracks - and two of them get played on a regular basis. I've no problem with that. I certainly dont expect or demand that they play my personal favourite 'rarities' and I dont think anyone else realistically does either

Most people who 'bitch' do so because of a variety of reasons, mostly one or more of the following : the fact theyre not VARYING the setlist as much as they could, are keeping it geared too much towards a 'greatest hits' show, certain band members arent playing as well as would be expected, or theyre charging too much money. There are others, I'm sure...

Maybe you should read the posts that youre complaining about more carefully before making sweeping and nonsensical generalisations about everyone who doesnt feel the same way as you do.

Telling someone theyre not a real Stones fan because they dont subscribe to your psychophantic view of the band is every bit as absurd as someone saying that someone is not a 'real fan' because they dont have xxxx amount of albums or have 'only' seen the band a few times. The Stones' music has touched us all individually and the reason any of us has for liking it is a personal one. Theres no set definition of what a 'real fan' is. I certainly dont consider myself more of a fan than anyone else just because I've seen a few more shows than them or own a few more bootlegs.

If anything, the reason why many people on here DO have something to 'bitch' about is precisely the opposite of the reason youve stated. from what I can see, its because they WANT the band to continue to be great, see that they still have the potential to be that way but that creatively theyre taking the easy option.

If you're satisfied with that level of expectancy and are just glad theyre still around no matter what they do or dont do, good for you. As long as youre happy with that, thats fine

Some people happen to be concerned about the band's long-term legacy and feel theyre not fulfilling their potential as much as they could be. Its a perfectly reasonable opinion.

Gazza, your gift for eloquence has few equals on this board and I could have not have stated the matter better. You mirrored my on thoughts precisely. Well spoken!

ChrisM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gazza, your gift for eloquence has few equals on
> this board

Fúck off, Chris...

just teasin' mate...LOL

And @#$%& off I shall, but just not at this moment. Gaz, me old son, with a tongue as silver as yours I'm sure you could tell someone to go to hell and have them actually look forward to the trip. Have you considered a career in politics or diplomacy?

And Rickster, your passion for the band is commendable but I feel compelled to ask you if Mick Jagger served you a steaming plate of shite and said 'bon appetite', would you eat it? I mean this by no means pejoratively but figuratively so please take it in that spirit and none other.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-11-29 01:42 by ChrisM.

And about those ticket prices and set lists...

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> Some people happen to be concerned about the
> band's long-term legacy and feel theyre not
> fulfilling their potential as much as they could
> be. Its a perfectly reasonable opinion.

"some people"? you know you're talking about yourself - just come out and admit it for crissakes!

yeah but not just myself...LOL

Gazza, J-J-Flash, T&A, I don't get you. Always negative. There is a saying: If you can't beat them, join them. The Stones play what they want, no matter how much you complian about it, and for sure you complain about a lot. Why not enjoy the music and have a good time? Mick and Keith don't give a shit about negative people like you. You don't know anything about how they think, and how to run a show like they do. They are proffesionals, you are not!

Think of it this way: Why would the Stones change the way they do things when houndreds of thousands of people over the whole world pays hundreds of dollars to see their shows? To get good tickets is a nightmare, even on the black market. If you know anything about success, anything at all, you should know that you never change a winning team!

Except for the hard core fans, they have no reason to vary the songs that much, and even when they do, people complain. As with the new and brilliant version og 19th nervous breakdown. Lots of complaining. Besides, they did give us a real treat on the Licks tour. I saw all three shows in NY, and got 47 different song, were only four of them were played all three shows. Songs like Loving cup, Rocks off, She smiled sweetly, That's how strong my love is, were played. A great treat for the hard core fans. This tour is different, and that's what you're asking for, isn't it?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2005-11-29 03:30 by Niklas.

CRISTAL, Niklas. 'll see you soon here.

Shezeboss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CRISTAL, Niklas. 'll see you soon here.


What do you mean? CRISTAL?

just: what you say is clear just like (pure) water. And I appreciate your enthusiasm. this board could have been really great. In french we can tell: C'EST CLAIR COMME L'EAU DE ROCHE. Good night..

I'm not always negative, Niklas

Theres a lot of things about the Stones I like. Try reading a few posts. I sure as hell dont expect them to change a show for me.

I think their new studio album is terrific, I've never been at a Stones show I didnt enjoy (I thought the Licks shows were fantastic) and I just made a post on the Euro tickets thread saying that the reported ticket prices for the 2006 shows seemed reasonable

What part of all that do you find 'always negative'? If I was always negative I wouldnt be spending a shitload of money to fly to New York to see them in January. The amount of sweeping generalisations from some people on this board to everyone who doesnt kiss the band's asses all the time is embarrassing

Youre right about not knowing how to run a show. I dont claim to. However, the artist and the fan are always going to look at things differently. My passion for the band is 100% concerned with the quality of their music and their output in general. I dont think the band feels the same way. I'm sure most people would agree with that. They make some decisions where you seriously have to question who theyre listening to and what kind of people are advising them - and also whether or not theyre in tune with reality at times.


Put it this way. How much effort and passion do you think the Stones put into the choice of songs on 'rarities'? Do you think thats a worthy representation of rare material from 1971 to date? Theres not a single person on this board who would be unable to compile a list of b-sides and rare songs that would work better than what the band have assembled for that release. Several of the songs arent even rarities at all. What does that tell you about how little they care about the way their work is presented? is that not somewhat unprofessional to you?


Your last point says it all and its a good one (I was at 2 of those NY shows you were at. Couldnt get into Roseland..). What great shows they were and what ambition they showed. But isnt it a natural instinct for any great artist that if you raise your ambitions and acheieve them that you keep trying to improve? I'm sure I'll probably enjoy the shows I see on this tour, as I usually do, but I'm still a bit disappointed by the fact that a band that is still capable of being great (see, not always negative!) are playing it safe.

Hundreds of thousands of people do indeed pay to see these shows. However theyve paid for their tickets before the band play a note, so its not like theyre going to walk out. If the band could play a show that wasnt all 'hits' last time - and with great success - why is it suddenly a problem now? Dont you think the Stones deserve better respect than to be restricted to playing the same 12-15 songs EVERY show? (I refuse to believe that most people who go to a Stones shows ONLY know these few songs)

What gets me is that Ive seen a lot of reviews of this tour from people I would NEVER have expected to say anything negative about the band who feel a bit disappointed in what the band have offered to date. Some of them have said they wont be back if they were to tour again. I've never read so many posts like that before. As a Stones fan, I find that a disturbing sign.

So, real fans NEVER can gripe about anything that they enjoy? They can never be critical? Get real yourself!

<< I'm sure I'll probably enjoy the shows I see on this tour, as I usually do,...

Does this mean you haven't seen them on this tour Gazza?

<< is that not somewhat unprofessional to you?

If there is only one thing I would NEVER EVER accuse The Stones of being, it would be accusing them for being unprofessional!

<< However theyve paid for their tickets before the band play a note, so its not like theyre going to walk out.

This is only true before the first show or two. After that people read the critics for the opening shows. If they're good people will buy tickets for the show coming closest to their city. If the reviews are bad, The Stones would have to cancel the tour.

Besides from all this, I think you should reconcider your way with words. You upset people a lot on this board, and I get really mad when you do that. I'm going to NY in January myself. Maybe we should meet and talk things over? Meanwhile, drop your insulting and negativity. It would be better for everyone reading these pages.

Not sure if thats addressed to me, sladog - but youre basically saying the same as I did!

Niklas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> << I'm sure I'll probably enjoy the shows I
> see on this tour, as I usually do,...
>
> Does this mean you haven't seen them on this tour
> Gazza?
>
> << is that not somewhat unprofessional to
> you?
>
> If there is only one thing I would NEVER EVER
> accuse The Stones of being, it would be accusing
> them for being unprofessional!
>
> << However theyve paid for their tickets
> before the band play a note, so its not like
> theyre going to walk out.
>
> This is only true before the first show or two.
> After that people read the critics for the opening
> shows. If they're good people will buy tickets for
> the show coming closest to their city. If the
> reviews are bad, The Stones would have to cancel
> the tour.
>
> Besides from all this, I think you should
> reconcider your way with words. You upset people a
> lot on this board, and I get really mad when you
> do that. I'm going to NY in January myself. Maybe
> we should meet and talk things over? Meanwhile,
> drop your insulting and negativity. It would be
> better for everyone reading these pages.
>
>


Niklas, I think you were rude to me first actually and to claim someone 'upsets a lot of people' by a few posts on a message board is nonsense. If that seriously upsets anyone, then they're very easily annoyed. If you read my first post to you above, I responded to you in a respectful manner. Its only when you turned into an obnoxious dickhead, I gave you the reply you deserved

I'll stand by what I'm saying about unprofessionalism. Live Licks is 'unprofessional' (they cant have listened to the finished edit of that album if they sanctioned the release of that abomination of 'Rocks Off'. THAT is unprofessional). Most of the time they do just fine, however

And no, I havent seen a show on this tour. Hardly my fault that I dont live in North America. However, I havent bitched about the quality of the playing (I dont do so usually...I dont claim to have as finely tuned a musical ear as some do). The shows I've heard seem ok. I certainly dont think theyre bad shows, I'm just not as blown away or excited about them as I usually am.

The tour was announced in May and began in late August. I would imagine that most of the tickets for the shows that the band are playing in 2005 were sold before the tour began, so I dont think the reviews would have made much difference (and the reviews for the first shows were generally pretty good, I thought...)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-11-29 04:07 by Gazza.