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AntoineParis

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AntoineParis

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AntoineParis

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Mathijs

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dcba
"All three Paris shows (the last two of which were a bit, but not much, calmer) were taped by a mobile recording unit brought over from England. For an album? “We are just recording,” says Marshall Chess, new Stones recording chief, “just recording.”

In his memoir, Glyn Johns says :
"The Rolling Stones had commissioned a state-of-the-art mobile recording unit in a truck and had given the job to Stu to organize. He in turn came to me for advice and assistance.
In late September, the truck was finally finished and ready to test. So we took it to Paris to record the Stones in concert. Unfortunately the trip was wasted, as neither of the two 16-track tape machines that Stu had got some kind of deal on proved to be operable."

One problem here ;
the Mobile unit didn't receive its baptism of fire in September 1970 in Paris but in March at Stargroves...

I think the Mobile started recording in October 1970 at Stargroves.

It could very well be that no show of the 1970 tour except for the first Paris show was recorded professionally.

Mathijs

Yes Paris was recorded.
i remember that the Stones management ask Europe1 Radio a copy of the show (maybe 5/10 years ago) but there is some troubles with the tape, not good enough for an official release. That makes me think that the Stones have nothing for this tour for an official release.

From Europe 1 there is olympia complete shows from 65 to 67 in perfect quality (both 66 complete show!!!) I The 1964 show is definitly lost.
I had the chance to listen to all this shows, it sounded just @#$%& great

can you tell me how it was recorded?

would a stereo mix like that on the live in england 1965 be posible or are these strictly mono tapes?

and if you can tell me how are you certain the 64 show is lost?

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AntoineParis

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Mathijs

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dcba
"All three Paris shows (the last two of which were a bit, but not much, calmer) were taped by a mobile recording unit brought over from England. For an album? “We are just recording,” says Marshall Chess, new Stones recording chief, “just recording.”

In his memoir, Glyn Johns says :
"The Rolling Stones had commissioned a state-of-the-art mobile recording unit in a truck and had given the job to Stu to organize. He in turn came to me for advice and assistance.
In late September, the truck was finally finished and ready to test. So we took it to Paris to record the Stones in concert. Unfortunately the trip was wasted, as neither of the two 16-track tape machines that Stu had got some kind of deal on proved to be operable."

One problem here ;
the Mobile unit didn't receive its baptism of fire in September 1970 in Paris but in March at Stargroves...

I think the Mobile started recording in October 1970 at Stargroves.

It could very well be that no show of the 1970 tour except for the first Paris show was recorded professionally.

Mathijs

Yes Paris was recorded.
i remember that the Stones management ask Europe1 Radio a copy of the show (maybe 5/10 years ago) but there is some troubles with the tape. That makes me think that the Stones have nothing for this tour for an official release

Well, the photo on page 4 of the "What’s next from the vault?"-thread shows not only Paris, September 24, but also multitrack tapes from at least two other 1970 shows, possibly Frankfurt and Hamburg.

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retired_dog

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AntoineParis

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Mathijs

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dcba
"All three Paris shows (the last two of which were a bit, but not much, calmer) were taped by a mobile recording unit brought over from England. For an album? “We are just recording,” says Marshall Chess, new Stones recording chief, “just recording.”

In his memoir, Glyn Johns says :
"The Rolling Stones had commissioned a state-of-the-art mobile recording unit in a truck and had given the job to Stu to organize. He in turn came to me for advice and assistance.
In late September, the truck was finally finished and ready to test. So we took it to Paris to record the Stones in concert. Unfortunately the trip was wasted, as neither of the two 16-track tape machines that Stu had got some kind of deal on proved to be operable."

One problem here ;
the Mobile unit didn't receive its baptism of fire in September 1970 in Paris but in March at Stargroves...

I think the Mobile started recording in October 1970 at Stargroves.

It could very well be that no show of the 1970 tour except for the first Paris show was recorded professionally.

Mathijs

Yes Paris was recorded.
i remember that the Stones management ask Europe1 Radio a copy of the show (maybe 5/10 years ago) but there is some troubles with the tape. That makes me think that the Stones have nothing for this tour for an official release

Well, the photo on page 4 of the "What’s next from the vault?"-thread shows not only Paris, September 24, but also multitrack tapes from at least two other 1970 shows, possibly Frankfurt and Hamburg.

You are right. I was just looking at that photo earlier. I can't even imagine how many recordings, good or bad, that they actually have stashed away.

this seems relevant to the conversation at hand so i thought i'd repost it here

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ProfessorWolf
this seems relevant to the conversation at hand so i thought i'd repost it here

What does the black writing say? Fr.XXX, 1st show, Pt. II?

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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ProfessorWolf
this seems relevant to the conversation at hand so i thought i'd repost it here

What does the black writing say? Fr.XXX, 1st show, Pt. II?

Mathijs

I would say "Fr.AM" = Frankfurt Am Main

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ProfessorWolf
this seems relevant to the conversation at hand so i thought i'd repost it here

Extremely relevant!!

Frankfurt 1st show!!!!

Here's what user hockenheim95 commented in the other thread:

"What dates can we read on the labels?

Top row the three reels on the left are clearly marked as Fort Worth 72 1st show. The fourth is marked as Fort Worth 2nd and has a label on it saying 24/06/72, which is the date of the Fort Worth show.

The second from the right reads like 24/09/70, which would be a show from Paris.

The fourth on the bottom is marked with a pen as "FR AM 1st show PT II". This could be Frankfurt am Main in Germany where they played 2 shows on October 5 and 6, but not two shows on one day. No other city on that tour begins with the letter "F". The fifth from the left looks like 14/01/70, which wouldn't make any sense because tere is no known show on that date. But the box has the letters ROLLING STONES written in the same way as the "Frankfurt" reel. If it's a typo it could also be the 14/09/70 show in Hamburg, but then I can't figure out what "FR AM" means.

The one on the bottom right looks like 25/06/1972 - the Houston show."

If his Hamburg guess is actually right, well, that's another pretty hot show, judging from the boot and the YouTube video excerpts:

Hamburg 1970 (footage & concert excerpts)

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Mathijs

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ProfessorWolf
this seems relevant to the conversation at hand so i thought i'd repost it here

What does the black writing say? Fr.XXX, 1st show, Pt. II?

Mathijs

Leftfield hypothesis...

FR = France
A.M. = the type of broadcast "Europe 1" aired the gig.
In the 70's A.M. radio was the norm in France, F.M. was barely known.
1st show = well it's the 1st Paris night.

The reel has no proper I.D. tag (like : yy-mm-dd) because upon listening to it the archive person decided it was not usable.

Again it's my leftfield opinion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-21 19:21 by dcba.

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dcba

Leftfield hypothesis...

FR = France
A.M. = the type of broadcast "Europe 1" aired the gig.
In the 70's A.M. radio was the norm in France, F.M. was barely known.
1st show = well it's the 1st Paris night.

The reel has no proper I.D. tag (like : yy-mm-dd) because upon listening to it the archive person decided it was not usable.

Again it's my leftfield opinion.

Not that leftfield at all, because that was my second guess - I just found it strange that they would label it with the country and the broadcast frequency instead of location and date, what would have been the "norm". It would also contradict the story that both multitrack tape recorders were not operable. If this story is wrong however, they could have easily recorded all three Paris shows - once the Mobile Unit was there and operable, it would have been the natural choice, with little additional cost. And as far as I know, the radio station itself - Europe 1 - did not record multitrack, at least not in this time period.

However, it's also very plausible.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-21 21:02 by retired_dog.

isn't it likely that some of these tapes are from amsterdam since they filmed so much footage there?

one would think they would need audio to go with the film

right?

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retired_dog

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dcba

Leftfield hypothesis...

FR = France
A.M. = the type of broadcast "Europe 1" aired the gig.
In the 70's A.M. radio was the norm in France, F.M. was barely known.
1st show = well it's the 1st Paris night.

The reel has no proper I.D. tag (like : yy-mm-dd) because upon listening to it the archive person decided it was not usable.

Again it's my leftfield opinion.

Not that leftfield at all, because that was my second guess - I just found it strange that they would label it with the country and the broadcast frequency instead of location and date, what would have been the "norm". It would also contradict the story that both multitrack tape recorders were not operable. If this story is wrong however, they could have easily recorded all three Paris shows - once the Mobile Unit was there and operable, it would have been the natural choice, with little additional cost. And as far as I know, the radio station itself - Europe 1 - did not record multitrack, at least not in this time period.

However, it's also very plausible.

“The first Paris show was broadcast live on French radio, albeit from an audience source with a bloody annoying DJ talking over the start of each song”

— from Gazza’s The “Rocks Off” Rolling Stones Setlists Page

[rocksoff.org]

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RisingStone

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retired_dog

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dcba

Leftfield hypothesis...

FR = France
A.M. = the type of broadcast "Europe 1" aired the gig.
In the 70's A.M. radio was the norm in France, F.M. was barely known.
1st show = well it's the 1st Paris night.

The reel has no proper I.D. tag (like : yy-mm-dd) because upon listening to it the archive person decided it was not usable.

Again it's my leftfield opinion.

Not that leftfield at all, because that was my second guess - I just found it strange that they would label it with the country and the broadcast frequency instead of location and date, what would have been the "norm". It would also contradict the story that both multitrack tape recorders were not operable. If this story is wrong however, they could have easily recorded all three Paris shows - once the Mobile Unit was there and operable, it would have been the natural choice, with little additional cost. And as far as I know, the radio station itself - Europe 1 - did not record multitrack, at least not in this time period.

However, it's also very plausible.

“The first Paris show was broadcast live on French radio, albeit from an audience source with a bloody annoying DJ talking over the start of each song”

— from Gazza’s The “Rocks Off” Rolling Stones Setlists Page

[rocksoff.org]

Yes, of course. I've dug out my old reel-to-reel and despite the AM quality that only worsens matters it's clearly an audience recording and not a soundboard, so even without the annoying DJ it would not be usable by the Stones.

So where are we now? Things considered, almost everything speaks against the "France AM" theory, as the tapes shown in the picture are clearly multitracks. As Frankfurt is the only 1970 location that starts with "F", not to speak of "Fr", I would conclude that this could be indeed Frankfurt Am Main 1970.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-22 11:46 by retired_dog.

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retired_dog

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RisingStone

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retired_dog

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dcba

Leftfield hypothesis...

FR = France
A.M. = the type of broadcast "Europe 1" aired the gig.
In the 70's A.M. radio was the norm in France, F.M. was barely known.
1st show = well it's the 1st Paris night.

The reel has no proper I.D. tag (like : yy-mm-dd) because upon listening to it the archive person decided it was not usable.

Again it's my leftfield opinion.

Not that leftfield at all, because that was my second guess - I just found it strange that they would label it with the country and the broadcast frequency instead of location and date, what would have been the "norm". It would also contradict the story that both multitrack tape recorders were not operable. If this story is wrong however, they could have easily recorded all three Paris shows - once the Mobile Unit was there and operable, it would have been the natural choice, with little additional cost. And as far as I know, the radio station itself - Europe 1 - did not record multitrack, at least not in this time period.

However, it's also very plausible.

“The first Paris show was broadcast live on French radio, albeit from an audience source with a bloody annoying DJ talking over the start of each song”

— from Gazza’s The “Rocks Off” Rolling Stones Setlists Page

[rocksoff.org]

Yes, of course. I've dug out my old reel-to-reel and despite the AM quality that only worsens matters it's clearly an audience recording and not a soundboard, so even without the annoying DJ it would not be usable by the Stones.

So where are we now? Things considered, almost everything speaks against the "France AM" theory, as the tapes shown in the picture are clearly multitracks. As Frankfurt is the only 1970 location that starts with "F", not to speak of "Fr", I would conclude that this could be indeed Frankfurt Am Main 1970.

There's a professional recording of the Paris September 23 show -this is surely not a simple soundboard but a professional recording.

[www.youtube.com]

And weren't many shows from Paris like from the Olympia broadcasted live?

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-24 11:55 by Mathijs.

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Mathijs





Mathijs

Sounds like a five man army to me, despite the bad recording. What a band they were.

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retired_dog
Here's what user hockenheim95 commented in the other thread:

"What dates can we read on the labels?

Top row the three reels on the left are clearly marked as Fort Worth 72 1st show. The fourth is marked as Fort Worth 2nd and has a label on it saying 24/06/72, which is the date of the Fort Worth show.

The second from the right reads like 24/09/70, which would be a show from Paris.

The fourth on the bottom is marked with a pen as "FR AM 1st show PT II". This could be Frankfurt am Main in Germany where they played 2 shows on October 5 and 6, but not two shows on one day. No other city on that tour begins with the letter "F". The fifth from the left looks like 14/01/70, which wouldn't make any sense because tere is no known show on that date. But the box has the letters ROLLING STONES written in the same way as the "Frankfurt" reel. If it's a typo it could also be the 14/09/70 show in Hamburg, but then I can't figure out what "FR AM" means.

The one on the bottom right looks like 25/06/1972 - the Houston show."

If his Hamburg guess is actually right, well, that's another pretty hot show, judging from the boot and the YouTube video excerpts:

Hamburg 1970 (footage & concert excerpts)

Hamburg ‘70 has just about the best SFTD ever! Here’s hoping for a professional release.

Where are the shows from the 1973 Pacific and European shows

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Mathijs

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retired_dog

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RisingStone

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retired_dog

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dcba

Leftfield hypothesis...

FR = France
A.M. = the type of broadcast "Europe 1" aired the gig.
In the 70's A.M. radio was the norm in France, F.M. was barely known.
1st show = well it's the 1st Paris night.

The reel has no proper I.D. tag (like : yy-mm-dd) because upon listening to it the archive person decided it was not usable.

Again it's my leftfield opinion.

Not that leftfield at all, because that was my second guess - I just found it strange that they would label it with the country and the broadcast frequency instead of location and date, what would have been the "norm". It would also contradict the story that both multitrack tape recorders were not operable. If this story is wrong however, they could have easily recorded all three Paris shows - once the Mobile Unit was there and operable, it would have been the natural choice, with little additional cost. And as far as I know, the radio station itself - Europe 1 - did not record multitrack, at least not in this time period.

However, it's also very plausible.

“The first Paris show was broadcast live on French radio, albeit from an audience source with a bloody annoying DJ talking over the start of each song”

— from Gazza’s The “Rocks Off” Rolling Stones Setlists Page

[rocksoff.org]

Yes, of course. I've dug out my old reel-to-reel and despite the AM quality that only worsens matters it's clearly an audience recording and not a soundboard, so even without the annoying DJ it would not be usable by the Stones.

So where are we now? Things considered, almost everything speaks against the "France AM" theory, as the tapes shown in the picture are clearly multitracks. As Frankfurt is the only 1970 location that starts with "F", not to speak of "Fr", I would conclude that this could be indeed Frankfurt Am Main 1970.

There's a professional recording of the Paris September 23 show -this is surely not a simple soundboard but a professional recording.

[www.youtube.com]

And weren't many shows from Paris like from the Olympia broadcasted live?

Mathijs

I'm not so sure. Even considering the relatively bad quality that comes with repeated tape dubs, it sounds so unbalanced and therefore typical for a rough soundboard. A proper mix from multitrack would sound different even after a few tape generations imo. However, I could be wrong.

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retired_dog

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Mathijs

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retired_dog

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RisingStone

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retired_dog

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dcba

Leftfield hypothesis...

FR = France
A.M. = the type of broadcast "Europe 1" aired the gig.
In the 70's A.M. radio was the norm in France, F.M. was barely known.
1st show = well it's the 1st Paris night.

The reel has no proper I.D. tag (like : yy-mm-dd) because upon listening to it the archive person decided it was not usable.

Again it's my leftfield opinion.

Not that leftfield at all, because that was my second guess - I just found it strange that they would label it with the country and the broadcast frequency instead of location and date, what would have been the "norm". It would also contradict the story that both multitrack tape recorders were not operable. If this story is wrong however, they could have easily recorded all three Paris shows - once the Mobile Unit was there and operable, it would have been the natural choice, with little additional cost. And as far as I know, the radio station itself - Europe 1 - did not record multitrack, at least not in this time period.

However, it's also very plausible.

“The first Paris show was broadcast live on French radio, albeit from an audience source with a bloody annoying DJ talking over the start of each song”

— from Gazza’s The “Rocks Off” Rolling Stones Setlists Page

[rocksoff.org]

Yes, of course. I've dug out my old reel-to-reel and despite the AM quality that only worsens matters it's clearly an audience recording and not a soundboard, so even without the annoying DJ it would not be usable by the Stones.

So where are we now? Things considered, almost everything speaks against the "France AM" theory, as the tapes shown in the picture are clearly multitracks. As Frankfurt is the only 1970 location that starts with "F", not to speak of "Fr", I would conclude that this could be indeed Frankfurt Am Main 1970.

There's a professional recording of the Paris September 23 show -this is surely not a simple soundboard but a professional recording.

[www.youtube.com]

And weren't many shows from Paris like from the Olympia broadcasted live?

Mathijs

I'm not so sure. Even considering the relatively bad quality that comes with repeated tape dubs, it sounds so unbalanced and therefore typical for a rough soundboard. A proper mix from multitrack would sound different even after a few tape generations imo. However, I could be wrong.

You can hear the audience being mixed in and out between the tracks, that's a sign of a professional recording with a dedicated audience mic.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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retired_dog

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Mathijs

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retired_dog

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RisingStone

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retired_dog

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dcba

Leftfield hypothesis...

FR = France
A.M. = the type of broadcast "Europe 1" aired the gig.
In the 70's A.M. radio was the norm in France, F.M. was barely known.
1st show = well it's the 1st Paris night.

The reel has no proper I.D. tag (like : yy-mm-dd) because upon listening to it the archive person decided it was not usable.

Again it's my leftfield opinion.

Not that leftfield at all, because that was my second guess - I just found it strange that they would label it with the country and the broadcast frequency instead of location and date, what would have been the "norm". It would also contradict the story that both multitrack tape recorders were not operable. If this story is wrong however, they could have easily recorded all three Paris shows - once the Mobile Unit was there and operable, it would have been the natural choice, with little additional cost. And as far as I know, the radio station itself - Europe 1 - did not record multitrack, at least not in this time period.

However, it's also very plausible.

“The first Paris show was broadcast live on French radio, albeit from an audience source with a bloody annoying DJ talking over the start of each song”

— from Gazza’s The “Rocks Off” Rolling Stones Setlists Page

[rocksoff.org]

Yes, of course. I've dug out my old reel-to-reel and despite the AM quality that only worsens matters it's clearly an audience recording and not a soundboard, so even without the annoying DJ it would not be usable by the Stones.

So where are we now? Things considered, almost everything speaks against the "France AM" theory, as the tapes shown in the picture are clearly multitracks. As Frankfurt is the only 1970 location that starts with "F", not to speak of "Fr", I would conclude that this could be indeed Frankfurt Am Main 1970.

There's a professional recording of the Paris September 23 show -this is surely not a simple soundboard but a professional recording.

[www.youtube.com]

And weren't many shows from Paris like from the Olympia broadcasted live?

Mathijs

I'm not so sure. Even considering the relatively bad quality that comes with repeated tape dubs, it sounds so unbalanced and therefore typical for a rough soundboard. A proper mix from multitrack would sound different even after a few tape generations imo. However, I could be wrong.

You can hear the audience being mixed in and out between the tracks, that's a sign of a professional recording with a dedicated audience mic.

Mathijs

Yeah, good point, although one can also hear audience on other pure soundboards like Passaic '78 bleeding in from stage mics, this could indeed by a sign of a professional recording. It's possibly a rough mix done for the band members then that was "freed" to the public some tape generations further...

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Mathijs

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ProfessorWolf
this seems relevant to the conversation at hand so i thought i'd repost it here

What does the black writing say? Fr.XXX, 1st show, Pt. II?

Mathijs

Other possibilities considering resting the pen and creating an unwanted dot:

FROM 1st SHOW PT II

FRANK 1st SHOW PT II