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Taylor1
CSBlues is a wierd ugly portrait of the Stones.The fleeting liveperformances of the band show them in great form.But the off the stage and backstage stuff are not so outrageous as they are dreary and depressing
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ProfessorWolfQuote
Taylor1
CSBlues is a wierd ugly portrait of the Stones.The fleeting liveperformances of the band show them in great form.But the off the stage and backstage stuff are not so outrageous as they are dreary and depressing
i agree with your assessment
and short of there concern over the drug use depicted it seems a big reason for mick not wanting it released is he didn't believe it was a accurate document of the tour
it would be really great if they could recut the film with different footage and more performances like they did with charlie is my darling
they could still include frank's original version as a bonus like the producer and director cuts for charlie is my darling
frank must have shot a LOT of footage for the film
has it survived and how much is there?
and do the stones have access to the footage would they have to go thru his estate?
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timbernardisQuote
ProfessorWolfQuote
Taylor1
CSBlues is a wierd ugly portrait of the Stones.The fleeting liveperformances of the band show them in great form.But the off the stage and backstage stuff are not so outrageous as they are dreary and depressing
i agree with your assessment
and short of there concern over the drug use depicted it seems a big reason for mick not wanting it released is he didn't believe it was a accurate document of the tour
it would be really great if they could recut the film with different footage and more performances like they did with charlie is my darling
they could still include frank's original version as a bonus like the producer and director cuts for charlie is my darling
frank must have shot a LOT of footage for the film
has it survived and how much is there?
and do the stones have access to the footage would they have to go thru his estate?
Yeah, I would like to know the same thing. I wonder if the band has some kind of copyright control over the raw footage. I suspect that they would never want to touch it though just cuz of the reputation of the film. Could be a dynamite vault release though.
plexi
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ProfessorWolf
frank must have shot a LOT of footage for the film
has it survived and how much is there?
and do the stones have access to the footage would they have to go thru his estate?
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dcbaQuote
ProfessorWolf
frank must have shot a LOT of footage for the film
has it survived and how much is there?
and do the stones have access to the footage would they have to go thru his estate?
The band's vault holds every reel of 16mm film Frank shot. They do not need to ask Frank's estate about using it because they own the material. I guess Frank was hired to film the 72 tour so he has no artistic right over the material. He was just a contractor.
Imo Frank didn't play fait game with the band : in 72 he was broke so he gladly accepted the gig and the money that went with it.
But during or after the tour things went sour, which resulted in Frank delivering the film with a 3-year delay. Plus it included stuff Jagger certainly didn't want to be seen (like the drug use).
And Frank made extravagant claims about the stones like he had to teach them where to score drugs in every town they visited (yeah sure!).
Jagger - ever the Cerberus protecting the band - made sure he got the raw material for CsBlues. But - ever the gentleman - he allowed Frank to show the movie under certain conditions.
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ProfessorWolf
yeah but i think the broader world is ready to learn that the stones and there entourage used drugs in the 70's
I would only want to see any additional live performances or rehearsals.Frank must have shot more of the live shows.Too bad this can’t be confirmedQuote
DoxaQuote
ProfessorWolf
yeah but i think the broader world is ready to learn that the stones and there entourage used drugs in the 70's
Probably, but I am afraid that we have already passed the moment of 'the broader world being ready'. Probably that had been around the time of EXILE deluxe edition, if not even earlier. Since then the world has changed.
What makes it controversial (or more like dated in a difficult way) nowadays I don't think is just the explicit drug use, but all over the way it portrays the rock star world of the seventies (that probably was once thought to be cool). For example, the (staged) aeroplane scene with the nude groupie is not probably something to shout out loud proudly these days. The (also staged) tv set throwing out of the balcony is just embarrassing in its absurdity. The title of the movie alone is problematic in many ways these days (and not just being a dirty expression to provoke).
It could be if The Stones would be all history, like The Beatles, none of this would matter: it would be just documents of the past, no matter how ridiculous, politically incorrect or anything it is. But as far as The Stones still are some how pushing forward they still have concerns of their image, including their history. They are not in the position yet to distinguished themselves from their past and just look back and laugh their asses off.
This partly is the cost for us fans having the beloved band still going on: they cannot yet view their past as a pure history. This means that they are pretty careful how to reveal their vaults. They carry their past still with them (and as long as the most effective way to milk out the past is to play the songs from those times live, and giving the impression of still being the same band, I don't think this attitude will change).
That said, CS Blues is a dirty masterpiece as a document of those days, me thinks. It tells much more than it says. Frank probably was not that impressed of what he saw and witnessed.
- Doxa
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DoxaQuote
ProfessorWolf
yeah but i think the broader world is ready to learn that the stones and there entourage used drugs in the 70's
Probably, but I am afraid that we have already passed the moment of 'the broader world being ready'. Probably that had been around the time of EXILE deluxe edition, if not even earlier. Since then the world has changed.
What makes it controversial (or more like dated in a difficult way) nowadays I don't think is just the explicit drug use, but all over the way it portrays the rock star world of the seventies (that probably was once thought to be cool). For example, the (staged) aeroplane scene with the nude groupie is not probably something to shout out loud proudly these days. The (also staged) tv set throwing out of the balcony is just embarrassing in its absurdity. The title of the movie alone is problematic in many ways these days (and not just being a dirty expression to provoke).
It could be if The Stones would be all history, like The Beatles, none of this would matter: it would be just documents of the past, no matter how ridiculous, politically incorrect or anything it is. But as far as The Stones still are some how pushing forward they still have concerns of their image, including their history. They are not in the position yet to distinguished themselves from their past and just look back and laugh their asses off.
This partly is the cost for us fans having the beloved band still going on: they cannot yet view their past as a pure history. This means that they are pretty careful how to reveal their vaults. They carry their past still with them (and as long as the most effective way to milk out the past is to play the songs from those times live, and giving the impression of still being the same band, I don't think this attitude will change).
That said, CS Blues is a dirty masterpiece as a document of those days, me thinks. It tells much more than it says. Frank probably was not that impressed of what he saw and witnessed.
- Doxa
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angee
With all due respect, Professor Wolf, I think you're missing Doxa's points.
Legalities are not the only issues. Have you heard of bad taste, or unsavory behaviors?
Just because people are paid for something doesn't make it right.
The Rolling Stones/Mick won't let it out, imo, for reasons explained above by Doxa.
Of course, that makes the film all the more attractive to the curious. Haven't
most of those seen it by now, or some version of it?
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angee
Okay. You want an entirely new film.
That's an interesting idea, but I think that ship has sailed, so to speak.
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angee
dcba says above that the band owns all the film footage...hmm...
I wonder how much concert film is really in there, or rehearsals.
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ProfessorWolf
as to whats left form the footage he shot i have no idea
but this appeared just last year form the dallas rehearsals so who knows
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Doxa
That said, CS Blues is a dirty masterpiece as a document of those days, me thinks. It tells much more than it says. Frank probably was not that impressed of what he saw and witnessed.
- Doxa