What's the back story on why the Stones chose to do this track to open Hyde Park 69? Always seemed to me to have been an odd choice because the song seems to be a totally different (slowed down HEAVY rock) vibe than all of their other repertoire. Did they owe Johnny Winter a favor in 69?

I am familiar with all that Johnny did of the Stones (BRILLIANT JJF on Johnny Winter And Live and BRILLIANT Let It Bleed), and I've heard that Silver Train may have been written for him.

I suspect that many'all on IORR know all about it. I'd love to hear what y'all know or, if all this has been discussed already, please provide a link.

Thanks in advance.

stonesstein

Kick me like you did before
I can't even feel the pain no more
Rocks Off, 1972

The song was a favorite of Brian Jones, so they played it in his honor.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-10 16:28 by rolling1us.

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rolling1us
The song was a favorite of Brian Jones, so they played it in his honor.

Thanks, as I have never heard that.

stonesstein

Kick me like you did before
I can't even feel the pain no more
Rocks Off, 1972

Brian was also a big CCR fan. Would have been nice to play Suzie Q since both bands recorded it!

Interesting that the song was not released until April 15,1969 and Brian died two and a half months later.He left the band less than 2 months after the song was released .So it became a favorite fairly quicklyAlso,I believe the last time Mick and Keith saw Brian before they went to his home on June8 to ask him to leave the band was for Through the Past Darkly photo shoot in early May. And how would Mick and Keith have found out during that short time period it was a favorite song of his. Were they even talking to Brian much during that period? I’m not so sure that story is true



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-11 13:11 by Taylor1.

What records were being played at Brian's house the night that he died?

Tom Keylock?

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Taylor1
Interesting that the song was not released until April 15,1969 and Brian died two and a half months later.He left the band less than 2 months after the song was released .So it became a favorite fairly quicklyAlso,I believe the last time Mick and Keith saw Brian before they went to his home on June8 to ask him to leave the band was for Through the Past Darkly photo shoot in early May. And how would Mick and Keith have found out during that short time period it was a favorite song of his. Were they even talking to Brian much during that period? I’m not so sure that story is true

There were 2 other members, Bill and Charlie, who might have been in contact with Brian before his death AND attended his funeral.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-11 22:50 by rolling1us.

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Taylor1
Interesting that the song was not released until April 15,1969 and Brian died two and a half months later. He left the band less than 2 months after the song was released .So it became a favorite fairly quickly. Also, I believe the last time Mick and Keith saw Brian before they went to his home on June8 to ask him to leave the band was for Through the Past Darkly photo shoot in early May. And how would Mick and Keith have found out during that short time period it was a favorite song of his. Were they even talking to Brian much during that period? I’m not so sure that story is true

Stu phoned Alexis Korner about finding a replacement for Brian. Alexis recommended John Mayall be contacted which led to Mr. Taylor's audition. If you've listened to THE STORY OF THE STONES BBC radio series, you'll remember that Alexis Korner was hanging out and sometimes jamming with Brian in those last few months. Alexis is the source of Brian loving CCR and quite likely this song as well.

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Rocky Dijon

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Taylor1
Interesting that the song was not released until April 15,1969 and Brian died two and a half months later. He left the band less than 2 months after the song was released .So it became a favorite fairly quickly. Also, I believe the last time Mick and Keith saw Brian before they went to his home on June8 to ask him to leave the band was for Through the Past Darkly photo shoot in early May. And how would Mick and Keith have found out during that short time period it was a favorite song of his. Were they even talking to Brian much during that period? I’m not so sure that story is true

Stu phoned Alexis Korner about finding a replacement for Brian. Alexis recommended John Mayall be contacted which led to Mr. Taylor's audition. If you've listened to THE STORY OF THE STONES BBC radio series, you'll remember that Alexis Korner was hanging out and sometimes jamming with Brian in those last few months. Alexis is the source of Brian loving CCR and quite likely this song as well.

All conjecture.I doubt very much Alexis spoke to Mick and Keith and said anything about I’m hers andI’m yers.At that time Brian had been fired.The Hyde Park concert was not planned as a tribute to Brian, it was to introduce the new band and get them playing again live for the first time in 2 years. It was only the last minute they decided to make it a tribute to Brian. I doubt Alexis spoke to them during that period about what songs Brian liked.A bigger tribute would have been to play Little Red Rooster.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-12 04:35 by Taylor1.

Yes, it was conjecture and I am entirely responsible for offering an unwelcome point of view. No different than my having multiple posts deleted or finding threads I participate in closed. On with the show. Good health to you.

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Taylor1

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Rocky Dijon

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Taylor1
Interesting that the song was not released until April 15,1969 and Brian died two and a half months later. He left the band less than 2 months after the song was released .So it became a favorite fairly quickly. Also, I believe the last time Mick and Keith saw Brian before they went to his home on June8 to ask him to leave the band was for Through the Past Darkly photo shoot in early May. And how would Mick and Keith have found out during that short time period it was a favorite song of his. Were they even talking to Brian much during that period? I’m not so sure that story is true

Stu phoned Alexis Korner about finding a replacement for Brian. Alexis recommended John Mayall be contacted which led to Mr. Taylor's audition. If you've listened to THE STORY OF THE STONES BBC radio series, you'll remember that Alexis Korner was hanging out and sometimes jamming with Brian in those last few months. Alexis is the source of Brian loving CCR and quite likely this song as well.

All conjecture.I doubt very much Alexis spoke to Mick and Keith and said anything about I’m hers andI’m yers.At that time Brian had been fired.The Hyde Park concert was not planned as a tribute to Brian, it was to introduce the new band and get them playing again live for the first time in 2 years. It was only the last minute they decided to make it a tribute to Brian. I doubt Alexis spoke to them during that period about what songs Brian liked.A bigger tribute would have been to play Little Red Rooster.

But do we have any reasons to doubt this? Are there other plausible reasons for them to open with an obscure cover on such a huge gig?

I've read this Alexis-story in numerous books. Haven't you?

Did Alexis say that in the first person that it was a Brian favorite?Or was it attributed to him?If it is true no one at the concert knew that because Mick didn’t tell the audience of 400000.So only he knew it was a Brian fav.That makes no sense.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-12 14:18 by Taylor1.

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Taylor1
...That makes no sense.

Most of the Sixties only started makin' sense in the Seventies anyway...

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DandelionPowderman

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Taylor1

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Rocky Dijon

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Taylor1
Interesting that the song was not released until April 15,1969 and Brian died two and a half months later. He left the band less than 2 months after the song was released .So it became a favorite fairly quickly. Also, I believe the last time Mick and Keith saw Brian before they went to his home on June8 to ask him to leave the band was for Through the Past Darkly photo shoot in early May. And how would Mick and Keith have found out during that short time period it was a favorite song of his. Were they even talking to Brian much during that period? I’m not so sure that story is true

Stu phoned Alexis Korner about finding a replacement for Brian. Alexis recommended John Mayall be contacted which led to Mr. Taylor's audition. If you've listened to THE STORY OF THE STONES BBC radio series, you'll remember that Alexis Korner was hanging out and sometimes jamming with Brian in those last few months. Alexis is the source of Brian loving CCR and quite likely this song as well.

All conjecture.I doubt very much Alexis spoke to Mick and Keith and said anything about I’m hers andI’m yers.At that time Brian had been fired.The Hyde Park concert was not planned as a tribute to Brian, it was to introduce the new band and get them playing again live for the first time in 2 years. It was only the last minute they decided to make it a tribute to Brian. I doubt Alexis spoke to them during that period about what songs Brian liked.A bigger tribute would have been to play Little Red Rooster.

But do we have any reasons to doubt this? Are there other plausible reasons for them to open with an obscure cover on such a huge gig?

I've read this Alexis-story in numerous books. Haven't you?

From mid April to early July the Stones were recording daily in Olympic. Even though Brian did not contribute anymore to the recording sessions he did visit the studio often, often inebriated and with a slew of hangers on. I can imagine he visited with 45's and tapes under his arm of stuff he liked.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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DandelionPowderman

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Taylor1

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Rocky Dijon

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Taylor1
Interesting that the song was not released until April 15,1969 and Brian died two and a half months later. He left the band less than 2 months after the song was released .So it became a favorite fairly quickly. Also, I believe the last time Mick and Keith saw Brian before they went to his home on June8 to ask him to leave the band was for Through the Past Darkly photo shoot in early May. And how would Mick and Keith have found out during that short time period it was a favorite song of his. Were they even talking to Brian much during that period? I’m not so sure that story is true

Stu phoned Alexis Korner about finding a replacement for Brian. Alexis recommended John Mayall be contacted which led to Mr. Taylor's audition. If you've listened to THE STORY OF THE STONES BBC radio series, you'll remember that Alexis Korner was hanging out and sometimes jamming with Brian in those last few months. Alexis is the source of Brian loving CCR and quite likely this song as well.

All conjecture.I doubt very much Alexis spoke to Mick and Keith and said anything about I’m hers andI’m yers.At that time Brian had been fired.The Hyde Park concert was not planned as a tribute to Brian, it was to introduce the new band and get them playing again live for the first time in 2 years. It was only the last minute they decided to make it a tribute to Brian. I doubt Alexis spoke to them during that period about what songs Brian liked.A bigger tribute would have been to play Little Red Rooster.

But do we have any reasons to doubt this? Are there other plausible reasons for them to open with an obscure cover on such a huge gig?

I've read this Alexis-story in numerous books. Haven't you?

From mid April to early July the Stones were recording daily in Olympic. Even though Brian did not contribute anymore to the recording sessions he did visit the studio often, often inebriated and with a slew of hangers on. I can imagine he visited with 45's and tapes under his arm of stuff he liked.

Mathijs

Sounds plausible.

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DandelionPowderman

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Mathijs

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DandelionPowderman

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Taylor1

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Rocky Dijon

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Taylor1
Interesting that the song was not released until April 15,1969 and Brian died two and a half months later. He left the band less than 2 months after the song was released .So it became a favorite fairly quickly. Also, I believe the last time Mick and Keith saw Brian before they went to his home on June8 to ask him to leave the band was for Through the Past Darkly photo shoot in early May. And how would Mick and Keith have found out during that short time period it was a favorite song of his. Were they even talking to Brian much during that period? I’m not so sure that story is true

Stu phoned Alexis Korner about finding a replacement for Brian. Alexis recommended John Mayall be contacted which led to Mr. Taylor's audition. If you've listened to THE STORY OF THE STONES BBC radio series, you'll remember that Alexis Korner was hanging out and sometimes jamming with Brian in those last few months. Alexis is the source of Brian loving CCR and quite likely this song as well.

All conjecture.I doubt very much Alexis spoke to Mick and Keith and said anything about I’m hers andI’m yers.At that time Brian had been fired.The Hyde Park concert was not planned as a tribute to Brian, it was to introduce the new band and get them playing again live for the first time in 2 years. It was only the last minute they decided to make it a tribute to Brian. I doubt Alexis spoke to them during that period about what songs Brian liked.A bigger tribute would have been to play Little Red Rooster.

But do we have any reasons to doubt this? Are there other plausible reasons for them to open with an obscure cover on such a huge gig?

I've read this Alexis-story in numerous books. Haven't you?

From mid April to early July the Stones were recording daily in Olympic. Even though Brian did not contribute anymore to the recording sessions he did visit the studio often, often inebriated and with a slew of hangers on. I can imagine he visited with 45's and tapes under his arm of stuff he liked.

Mathijs

Sounds plausible.

First of all, why would Mick and Keith even pay attention to what Brian liked,during the few moments they saw him in the approximate month he came in contact with them.And if I’m hers and I’m yers was played at Hyde Park as a tribute to him, no one in the audience was in on it , because Mick never announced it to the400000.So how is that a tribute when no one knows it’s a tribute And Mick and Keith have never said they played that song as a tribute to Brian.And how is it a tribute to him playing a song that had just heard and liked.What about Dust my Broom? There were probably dozens of songs they knew he likedA tribute would be playing a song he was dominant on like Ruby Tuesday .It’s more plausible they wanted nervous Mick Taylor to start off with a non Stones song

I'm going to repeat the question I posed earlier, to which no one has replied.

What was playing on the Cotchford Farm turntable the night that Brian died?
Was it the Johnny Winter album that had just been released by Columbia?
If so, that may explain why the Stones chose to play it.
That information could easily have come from someone like Tom Keylock, who was with Brian that night and was very visible on stage at the Hyde Park gig.
(I know, I know..Keylock can't be considered the best source of any info about Brian...)
I'm not saying that Keylock or anyone else suggested that the Stones play it.
But that bit of innocuous info might have influenced their decision on the show opener.

It's also possible that Brian may have mentioned the record to Bill Wyman or the Stones secretary, Shirley, during that period.

The Stones obviously spent some time listening to the Johnny Winter LP.
The Hyde Park performance is almost an exact duplication of the arrangement found on the record...
not something they fiddled with in the studio to "make it their own".
In other words, it was a studied performance done with purpose.
If my theory is correct, they had little time to re-arrange it anyway,
seeing as Brian had only died a few days earlier.

I do not think it was chosen out of consideration for Mick Taylor.
He'd been playing with the Stones long enough at that time to easily contribute to pretty much anything they chose to play that day.

The Hyde Park gig had been decided upon weeks earlier and the Stones had been rehearsing for it.
Brian's death, naturally, caused the beginning of the set to become rearranged. The poem, the butterflies and the Winter song were last minute insertions.
I'd like to believe that the original show opener was to be Jumping Jack Flash.

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Taylor1

First of all, why would Mick and Keith even pay attention to what Brian liked,during the few moments they saw him in the approximate month he came in contact with them.And if I’m hers and I’m yers was played at Hyde Park as a tribute to him, no one in the audience was in on it , because Mick never announced it to the400000.So how is that a tribute when no one knows it’s a tribute And Mick and Keith have never said they played that song as a tribute to Brian.And how is it a tribute to him playing a song that had just heard and liked.What about Dust my Broom? There were probably dozens of songs they knew he likedA tribute would be playing a song he was dominant on like Ruby Tuesday .It’s more plausible they wanted nervous Mick Taylor to start off with a non Stones song

There was a lot more contact between Jones and the rest of the Stones in his final month, even after he was fired. There's a lot of faxes available where Brian askes to be picked up by a driver to be driven to the Stones office or the studio. There was partying going, they were known to have fancy dinners late at night in the studio with many guests. There's many occasions where could have played the record to let others hear what he might have thought was the best thing around.

Also, Winter was really a shooting star at that time, really a known figure and many musicians were paying attention to him. Early tapes or pressings of his album could have been floating around in the music scene.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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Taylor1

First of all, why would Mick and Keith even pay attention to what Brian liked,during the few moments they saw him in the approximate month he came in contact with them.And if I’m hers and I’m yers was played at Hyde Park as a tribute to him, no one in the audience was in on it , because Mick never announced it to the400000.So how is that a tribute when no one knows it’s a tribute And Mick and Keith have never said they played that song as a tribute to Brian.And how is it a tribute to him playing a song that had just heard and liked.What about Dust my Broom? There were probably dozens of songs they knew he likedA tribute would be playing a song he was dominant on like Ruby Tuesday .It’s more plausible they wanted nervous Mick Taylor to start off with a non Stones song

There was a lot more contact between Jones and the rest of the Stones in his final month, even after he was fired. There's a lot of faxes available where Brian askes to be picked up by a driver to be driven to the Stones office or the studio. There was partying going, they were known to have fancy dinners late at night in the studio with many guests. There's many occasions where could have played the record to let others hear what he might have thought was the best thing around.

Also, Winter was really a shooting star at that time, really a known figure and many musicians were paying attention to him. Early tapes or pressings of his album could have been floating around in the music scene.

Mathijs

That doesn’t mean they played it as a tribute to Brian.And why would they ,a song Brian and they just heard? He also supposedly like the new CCR song.Why not play that?Andhow is that a tribute?That’s ridiculous. If they wanted to pay tribute to him, they would have played a song he was integral to, like Little Red Rooster or Ruby Tuesday .Or something by his fav.,Elmore James.But the bottom line it wasn’t a tribute that any of the 400000 fans at Hyde Park knew about because Mick never said to them it was.And in 53 years, none of the Stones have said it was



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-14 21:42 by Taylor1.

ROCKMAN

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Taylor1

First of all, why would Mick and Keith even pay attention to what Brian liked,during the few moments they saw him in the approximate month he came in contact with them.And if I’m hers and I’m yers was played at Hyde Park as a tribute to him, no one in the audience was in on it , because Mick never announced it to the400000.So how is that a tribute when no one knows it’s a tribute And Mick and Keith have never said they played that song as a tribute to Brian.And how is it a tribute to him playing a song that had just heard and liked.What about Dust my Broom? There were probably dozens of songs they knew he likedA tribute would be playing a song he was dominant on like Ruby Tuesday .It’s more plausible they wanted nervous Mick Taylor to start off with a non Stones song

There was a lot more contact between Jones and the rest of the Stones in his final month, even after he was fired. There's a lot of faxes available where Brian askes to be picked up by a driver to be driven to the Stones office or the studio. There was partying going, they were known to have fancy dinners late at night in the studio with many guests. There's many occasions where could have played the record to let others hear what he might have thought was the best thing around.

Also, Winter was really a shooting star at that time, really a known figure and many musicians were paying attention to him. Early tapes or pressings of his album could have been floating around in the music scene.

Mathijs

That doesn’t mean they played it as a tribute to Brian.And why would they ,a song Brian and they just heard? He also supposedly like the new CCR song.Why not play that?Andhow is that a tribute?That’s ridiculous. If they wanted to pay tribute to him, they would have played a song he was integral to, like Little Red Rooster or Ruby Tuesday .Or something by his fav.,Elmore James.But the bottom line it wasn’t a tribute that any of the 400000 fans at Hyde Park knew about because Mick never said to them it was.And in 53 years, none of the Stones have said it was

Bill Wyman states they did it for Brian. The fact that they rehearsed it even backstage just before the show, and that Jagger didn't know the lyrics is enough evidence for me.

Mathijs

<How is that a tribute?>

A tribute doesn't have to be broadcasted or made public. Especially when the guy they are paying tribute to is dead.

Like Mathijs said, Bill states that they did it for Brian.

Time to lay this one to rest, mate.

What makes you so sure they did not speak to Alexis Korner at that period? He probably saw in which state Brian was, and he kmnew about him being fired. Was he opposed to it? We can't ask him, he aready died in 1984. But he was oneof the kindest people I ever got to know.

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Taylor1

First of all, why would Mick and Keith even pay attention to what Brian liked, during the few moments they saw him in the approximate month he came in contact with them......................

There was a lot more contact between Jones and the rest of the Stones in his final month, even after he was fired. There's a lot of faxes available where Brian askes to be picked up by a driver to be driven to the Stones office or the studio.

Mathijs

Taylor1, the portion of your comment quoted above seems to be a very reasonable conclusion. After all, how many who've just been fired from/kicked out of a job go back and hang out at the workplace with their former peeps and the replacement? Sure, Brian may have remained close with Bill, but it is unlikely that Mick & Keith would've spent much time anywhere near him after sh!t-canning him. Mathijs, after reading your posts for decades, I am not dismissing your hypothesis, but I really do need something which might support what you postulate.

However, Mathijs, one thing I do need is to ask you to confirm that Brian has access to a fax machine in the Spring of 1969, because that could be the biggest story here!

stonesstein

Kick me like you did before
I can't even feel the pain no more
Rocks Off, 1972

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stonesstein
However, Mathijs, one thing I do need is to ask you to confirm that Brian has access to a fax machine in the Spring of 1969, because that could be the biggest story here![/color]

I never asked him.

Mathijs

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stonesstein


Taylor1, the portion of your comment quoted above seems to be a very reasonable conclusion. After all, how many who've just been fired from/kicked out of a job go back and hang out at the workplace with their former peeps and the replacement? Sure, Brian may have remained close with Bill, but it is unlikely that Mick & Keith would've spent much time anywhere near him after sh!t-canning him. Mathijs, after reading your posts for decades, I am not dismissing your hypothesis, but I really do need something which might support what you postulate.

However, Mathijs, one thing I do need is to ask you to confirm that Brian has access to a fax machine in the Spring of 1969, because that could be the biggest story here!

We shouldn't forget that Brian was their friend, too, even though he was sacked. And they had the same circle of friends as well, so I don't really think it's unlikely that they met, like some sources say they did.

I don't know how early out the guys in the Stones were, correspondance-wise, but getting a fax machine 5 years after it came on the market isn't too unlikely, is it?

I know it's important that we understand Brian never liked the Johnny Winter song, but I'm pretty sure Brian and the others used telex as did many celebrities in the Sixties. Not quite a fax, but very much its progenitor.

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Rocky Dijon
I know it's important that we understand Brian never liked the Johnny Winter song, but I'm pretty sure Brian and the others used telex as did many celebrities in the Sixties. Not quite a fax, but very much its progenitor.

Keith has used telefax since the technology was invented in 1843. He still does

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Mathijs

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Taylor1

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Mathijs

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Taylor1

First of all, why would Mick and Keith even pay attention to what Brian liked,during the few moments they saw him in the approximate month he came in contact with them.And if I’m hers and I’m yers was played at Hyde Park as a tribute to him, no one in the audience was in on it , because Mick never announced it to the400000.So how is that a tribute when no one knows it’s a tribute And Mick and Keith have never said they played that song as a tribute to Brian.And how is it a tribute to him playing a song that had just heard and liked.What about Dust my Broom? There were probably dozens of songs they knew he likedA tribute would be playing a song he was dominant on like Ruby Tuesday .It’s more plausible they wanted nervous Mick Taylor to start off with a non Stones song

There was a lot more contact between Jones and the rest of the Stones in his final month, even after he was fired. There's a lot of faxes available where Brian askes to be picked up by a driver to be driven to the Stones office or the studio. There was partying going, they were known to have fancy dinners late at night in the studio with many guests. There's many occasions where could have played the record to let others hear what he might have thought was the best thing around.

Also, Winter was really a shooting star at that time, really a known figure and many musicians were paying attention to him. Early tapes or pressings of his album could have been floating around in the music scene.

Mathijs

That doesn’t mean they played it as a tribute to Brian.And why would they ,a song Brian and they just heard? He also supposedly like the new CCR song.Why not play that?Andhow is that a tribute?That’s ridiculous. If they wanted to pay tribute to him, they would have played a song he was integral to, like Little Red Rooster or Ruby Tuesday .Or something by his fav.,Elmore James.But the bottom line it wasn’t a tribute that any of the 400000 fans at Hyde Park knew about because Mick never said to them it was.And in 53 years, none of the Stones have said it was

Bill Wyman states they did it for Brian. The fact that they rehearsed it even backstage just before the show, and that Jagger didn't know the lyrics is enough evidence for me.

Mathijs

Where did Bill say that?.In one ofhis books? Can you say the exact article or book he made it in?