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NathanLaze

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Mathijs


No this is all incorrect. It is a solo song worked on by Jagger in 1968, and not in 1969 when he was working with the Stones. There's various remarks by Jagger, Richards, Jack Nitzsche, Rus Titelman and Al Kooper about writing and recording this track.

Mathijs

i didn't say i don't agree with the facts you report here. i've just said that MFT could have been written later after brian's death and altamont in case MJ observes lyrically what had happened prior to 1970. i don't see any other meaning of it. But in case MTF was written in 1968, then MJ surely made plans in form of this song about what was to happen later - circus, brian's death, meredith hunter and maybe some more. aren't that "facts" themselves...

nothing changes the fact that all the footage for 'performance' was shot in 1968

including jagger lip-syncing the lyrics to MFT

so unless cammell and roeg reassembled all the performers for that scene - and magically made them look identical to their 1968 on-set selves - the lyrics were written well in advance of the events supposedly referenced

that's not to say that there wasn't magic at work

burroughs and borges would both have happily tipped their hats to that

but nothing in the song was written in RESPONSE to altamont, brian drowning, etc.

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NathanLaze

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Mathijs


No this is all incorrect. It is a solo song worked on by Jagger in 1968, and not in 1969 when he was working with the Stones. There's various remarks by Jagger, Richards, Jack Nitzsche, Rus Titelman and Al Kooper about writing and recording this track.

Mathijs

i didn't say i don't agree with the facts you report here. i've just said that MFT could have been written later after brian's death and altamont in case MJ observes lyrically what had happened prior to 1970. i don't see any other meaning of it. But in case MTF was written in 1968, then MJ surely made plans in form of this song about what was to happen later - circus, brian's death, meredith hunter and maybe some more. aren't that "facts" themselves...

Your arguments are false and invalid, and you are reading too much into it. The lyrcs were clearly written in 1968, and describe much of the mood of the film.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-02 18:43 by Mathijs.

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rayrad


that's not to say that there wasn't magic at work

burroughs and borges would both have happily tipped their hats to that

but nothing in the song was written in RESPONSE to altamont, brian drowning, etc.

do fellow stones fans actually believe in magic and "fortune telling" ? do they still think the world is flat ?

Hey NathanLaze,

Are you a frustrated "word philosopher" who tries to tickle Stones fans with silly questions like a snobbish "do they still think the world is flat?"
Also, "fortune" telling is not exactly what you're talking about: Brian's death is no fortune, Hunter's death is no fortune. I would call that misfortune.
Stones fans in general are just as much down-to-earth people like any other "group" of people. Do you believe in "God" could be the same as do you believe in "magic"? Or choosing the name Rollin(g) Stones could have been "fortune telling", because rolling stones don't gather moss, and so far, despite loosing some stones on the way, they are still not gathering moss?
It's all up to the individual mind (wow, they wrote "I'm free to do what I want, any old time")
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I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

In fairness, if we were addressing this from the same occult perspective that Mick & Marianne and Keith & Anita were at the time, we would suggest that the lyrics written in 1968 became "fact" in 1969. Writing is seen as casting spells (literally spelling words). It isn't wish-fulfillment any more than prayer or meditation, but sometimes it appears to work the same as the placebo effect. Not much different than inspiration abandoning artists.

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Rocky Dijon
In fairness, if we were addressing this from the same occult perspective that Mick & Marianne and Keith & Anita were at the time

Add to this a definitely cryptic ambiguous side to the MFT lyrics (while "Sympathy" had clear topical lyrics).

The more cryptic a prose is the more it is prone to any interpretations.
Google "Nostradamus predictions" for a fine example of that.

[bitterwinter.org]

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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-02 17:45 by NathanLaze.

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Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-02 17:45 by NathanLaze.

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Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-02 17:45 by NathanLaze.

In 1970 Cooder said in Rolling Stone Magazine:
„The Rolling Stones brought me to England under totally false pretences.
They weren’t playing well and were just messing around the studio.
When there’d be a lull in the so-called rehearsals, I’d start to play my guitar.
Keith Richard would leave the room immediately and never return.“

I thought he didn’t like me! But as I found out later the tapes would keep rolling……in the four or five weeks I was there I must have played everything I know.

They got it all down on these tapes. Everything.

Cooder also alleged that the riff of “Honky Tonk Women” was based on one of his progressions.
“I heard those things he played – I was amazed”, Richards later said.
“I learned a lot of things of a lot of people”.
However, he did acknowledge that his decision to switch from a six-string to a five-string guitar style was picked up from Cooder.

[www.songfacts.com]

what was the lineup on the metamorphosis version? who's playing guitar?