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Mathijs


Jagger's vocals were recorded in September 1968, so the lyrics were most likely written around July or August 1968. The tape with Jagger's vocals was send to LA for the music to be recorded in December 1968, in absence of Jagger.

Mathijs

how can vocals be recorded first without music ?? i am very curious

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Spud
would never normally have had any time for this song, in any version.

It's not the Stones, it's not one of Mick's best vocals....


...but as a vehicle for Ry Cooder's sublime slide...it achieves redemption

In my opinion it is in the top 3 of Mick's best vocals and best lyrics.

Mathijs

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NathanLaze

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Mathijs


Jagger's vocals were recorded in September 1968, so the lyrics were most likely written around July or August 1968. The tape with Jagger's vocals was send to LA for the music to be recorded in December 1968, in absence of Jagger.

Mathijs

how can vocals be recorded first without music ?? i am very curious

Because it was recorded with a different backing track.

[www.youtube.com]

Mathijs

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Mathijs


Because it was recorded with a different backing track.

[www.youtube.com]

Mathijs

seems to me that this take has a vocal track different to the film version, as well

Quote
Spud
would never normally have had any time for this song, in any version.

It's not the Stones, it's not one of Mick's best vocals....


...but as a vehicle for Ry Cooder's sublime slide...it achieves redemption

It's not the Stones indeed, but technically it served the function of a Stones song, despite relaesed under the name of Mick Jagger. Namely "Memo From Turner" turned out to be the contract filler (together with the b-side "Natural Magic") the band owned to Decca at the time. For some reason, Decca didn't see the proposed "Cvcksucker Blues" as a good single A-side... (But I always have thought that "CS Blues" would have been a great b-side for "Memo" continuing its homosexual themes. But probably it was a bit too explicit in that sense...)

So the result was that the soundtrack album of PERFORMANCE was released by Warner Bros Records (September 19, 1970), but the single "Memo From Turner" (October 23, 1970) by Decca Records.

So I guess for that reason the song also have made some Stones collections (SINGLES COLLECTION most notably): Decca/Abkco sees it as a 'proper' Stones song, belonging to their catalogue. I personally first got (and heard) the song from a (German) Stones collection called COLLECTORS ONLY (released in 1980).






- Doxa

P.S. A nerd question: in regard to COLLECTORS ONLY - is that still the only release that includes the pure studio version of "I've Been Loving You Too Long", that is, without the audience noise in GOT LIVE IF YOU WANT IT!?



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-01 16:21 by Doxa.

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Doxa


P.S. A nerd question: in regard to COLLECTORS ONLY - is that still the only release that includes the pure studio version of "I've Been Loving You Too Long", that is, without the audience noise in GOT LIVE IF YOU WANT IT!?

no, it is also on the cd version of "Today's Pop Symphony" c. 1991

Funny that.

I too first head the song on a different Teldec pressed German compilation.
Can't remember the album title though.

Was disappointed with the version on Metamorhosis when that came out...but I do like some of the other stuff on there.

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NathanLaze

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Mathijs


Because it was recorded with a different backing track.

[www.youtube.com]

Mathijs

seems to me that this take has a vocal track different to the film version, as well

Better quality.

[www.youtube.com]

Mathijs

NathanLaze

- Doxa

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NathanLaze

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Mathijs


Jagger's vocals were recorded in September 1968, so the lyrics were most likely written around July or August 1968. The tape with Jagger's vocals was send to LA for the music to be recorded in December 1968, in absence of Jagger.

Mathijs

how can vocals be recorded first without music ?? i am very curious

Interview with guitarist Russ Titelman:

[spectropop.com]

In 1969, you found yourself playing guitar on 'Memo From Turner', for Jack Nitzsche's soundtrack to the Mick Jagger film, Performance.

Actually, the core of the studio band on that record was Randy Newman, Ry Cooder and myself, and it was recorded in Los Angeles at Western Studios. But Jagger wasn't there during our sessions. The band Traffic had done a recording of 'Memo From Turner', but Jagger and Nitzsche didn't like it. So we replaced their track, playing along to Jagger's existing vocal and a click track. I played the Keith Richards-sounding "jing-a-jing" on rhythm guitar, and Ry Cooder did the slide guitar parts.

Mathijs

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Mathijs


Better quality.

[www.youtube.com]

Mathijs

ok, now i hear. is it the case at all, sorry.

the opinion still is, are there any " official" statements about MFT being finished in late 1968 (together with film production) , and not in 1970, besides "reference" sources like Aeppli or Nico that are not "authorized".

Anita wears Brian's "wizard's coat", could it be before r'n'r circus ??



btw, there is Brian's mellotron lurking at the background of Turner's flat. could it be set up by the film's crew before Brian's death ??

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Mathijs

Interview with guitarist Russ Titelman:

[spectropop.com]

In 1969, you found yourself playing guitar on 'Memo From Turner', for Jack Nitzsche's soundtrack to the Mick Jagger film, Performance.


Mathijs

so it was 1969, right ? and not 1968?

Never knew that Rus Titelman played on it !

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NathanLaze

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Mathijs

Interview with guitarist Russ Titelman:

[spectropop.com]

In 1969, you found yourself playing guitar on 'Memo From Turner', for Jack Nitzsche's soundtrack to the Mick Jagger film, Performance.


Mathijs

so it was 1969, right ? and not 1968?

December 1968 has always been stated as the date as Jack Nitzsche was at that moment recording in LA with Ry Cooder. Cooder then was invited for the February/March 1969 sessions at Olympics with Nitzsche, which would be Cooders last Stones reference. Later in 1969 they did recordings in LA for Let it Bleed.So, December 1968 is the most likely date.

Mathijs

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-01 17:15 by NathanLaze.

whatever all this means, is...

MTF was released in 1970, so a majority of work could have been put between 1968 and 1970. i believe that mj lyrics were recorded later after Titelman sessions

if no, then "circus" and "drowning jew" and "laughing in grave" and "blackman throwing knife" were among band's prospects in 1968



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-01 17:25 by NathanLaze.

Patterns are always clear after the fact. The lyrics, at the latest, may have been tweaked in February 1969. It is likely they were already finished in October 1968.

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Rocky Dijon
Patterns are always clear after the fact.

right. now imagine neither of these "facts" happened. i mean, not one of them.

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Rocky Dijon
Patterns are always clear after the fact. The lyrics, at the latest, may have been tweaked in February 1969. It is likely they were already finished in October 1968.

The differences in lyrics between the Metamorphosis version and the two others (that had a same - or almost same - Jagger vocal track) are pretty minimal. I don't think Jagger would have recut the Metamorphosis version again had he changed the lyrics afterwards. By 1969 I think he pretty much had abandoned that version. So this strongly suggests that the lyrics were pretty finished by the time they started cutting the track in the first place (that is, by September 1968). The problem was just to get the music right.

What bothers me it is the order of versions. Some sources claim that the Metamorphosis/The 'Stones' version was the first try (September?), before Jagger abandoned it and then asked the Traffic guys to help with it (November?). By that time the filming of PERFORMANCE had already ended, and there seemingly was a hurry to get the track. That didn't satisfy Jagger either, and the track was sent to LA for Cooder etc. to recut, although they kept the Jagger vocal from Traffic version there (December?). This sounds to me a logical development.

However, some sources claim that the Traffic version actually was the first version, and after trying it by other means (the 'Stones' version), they went back to it and sent that to LA. This sounds to me odd.

- Doxa

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NathanLaze

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Rocky Dijon
Patterns are always clear after the fact.

right. now imagine neither of these "facts" happened. i mean, not one of them.

"Imagine" is a word that John Lennon used many times in his famous song. But he basically said that all those things were facts. And looking back to what happened to him, imagination leads to nothing.

Digging into the details of facts appears to me as a much better way to waste our precious time

I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

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Doxa

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Spud
would never normally have had any time for this song, in any version.

It's not the Stones, it's not one of Mick's best vocals....


...but as a vehicle for Ry Cooder's sublime slide...it achieves redemption

It's not the Stones indeed, but technically it served the function of a Stones song, despite relaesed under the name of Mick Jagger. Namely "Memo From Turner" turned out to be the contract filler (together with the b-side "Natural Magic") the band owned to Decca at the time. For some reason, Decca didn't see the proposed "Cvcksucker Blues" as a good single A-side... (But I always have thought that "CS Blues" would have been a great b-side for "Memo" continuing its homosexual themes. But probably it was a bit too explicit in that sense...)

So the result was that the soundtrack album of PERFORMANCE was released by Warner Bros Records (September 19, 1970), but the single "Memo From Turner" (October 23, 1970) by Decca Records.

So I guess for that reason the song also have made some Stones collections (SINGLES COLLECTION most notably): Decca/Abkco sees it as a 'proper' Stones song, belonging to their catalogue. I personally first got (and heard) the song from a (German) Stones collection called COLLECTORS ONLY (released in 1980).






- Doxa

P.S. A nerd question: in regard to COLLECTORS ONLY - is that still the only release that includes the pure studio version of "I've Been Loving You Too Long", that is, without the audience noise in GOT LIVE IF YOU WANT IT!?

"I've been loving you too long " without false audience is also on "More hots rocks" (2002)....

"Sympathy For The Devil", "Street Fighting Man", "Stray Cat Blues", "Jig-Saw Puzzle", "Family", "Sister Morphine", "Memo From Turner".... Damn, Jagger was a bad-ass lyricist in 1968...

I agree with Rocky Dijon that there is a bit of that Bulgakov's Devil perspective in "Memo From Turner" as well, but this time the target is not so historically rich, but more directed at the violent gangster world PERFORMANCE typically deals with. Anyway, one of Mick's best lyrics ever me thinks. Mick doesn't much make observations about men or male behavior in general, but here he does as nasty remarks as he typically does of women... And as it is Jagger, there needs to be some sexual twist; I recall one commentor once claiming that within pop music, this song is a first instance ever associating homosexuality with violent, aggressive macho culture. Don't know about that, but the song is full of damn great choice of words.

And I altogether think the song is a dirty masterpiece, belonging essentially to the peak era of the band (just next to things like "Sympathy", "Stray Cat Blues", "Gimme Shelter", "Midnight Rambler", etc). I've lately - thanks to this thread - listened the song in its different versions, and although I think the raw and sleazy official soundtrack is no doubt THE version of it (not the least to do with Cooder's iconic slide), the other two versions are damn cool also in their own way. Even the Metamorphosis one - for some reason it hasn't worked for me earlier, but now it does.

- Doxa

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jp.M



"I've been loving you too long " without false audience is also on "More hots rocks" (2002)....

Ok! So that's most likely is its first and most well-known appearance (or did it appear in the original MORE HOT ROCKS?).

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-01 23:11 by Doxa.

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jp.M

Quote
Doxa

Quote
Spud
would never normally have had any time for this song, in any version.

It's not the Stones, it's not one of Mick's best vocals....


...but as a vehicle for Ry Cooder's sublime slide...it achieves redemption

It's not the Stones indeed, but technically it served the function of a Stones song, despite relaesed under the name of Mick Jagger. Namely "Memo From Turner" turned out to be the contract filler (together with the b-side "Natural Magic") the band owned to Decca at the time. For some reason, Decca didn't see the proposed "Cvcksucker Blues" as a good single A-side... (But I always have thought that "CS Blues" would have been a great b-side for "Memo" continuing its homosexual themes. But probably it was a bit too explicit in that sense...)

So the result was that the soundtrack album of PERFORMANCE was released by Warner Bros Records (September 19, 1970), but the single "Memo From Turner" (October 23, 1970) by Decca Records.

So I guess for that reason the song also have made some Stones collections (SINGLES COLLECTION most notably): Decca/Abkco sees it as a 'proper' Stones song, belonging to their catalogue. I personally first got (and heard) the song from a (German) Stones collection called COLLECTORS ONLY (released in 1980).






- Doxa

P.S. A nerd question: in regard to COLLECTORS ONLY - is that still the only release that includes the pure studio version of "I've Been Loving You Too Long", that is, without the audience noise in GOT LIVE IF YOU WANT IT!?

"I've been loving you too long " without false audience is also on "More hots rocks" (2002)....

and on stray cats in the in mono boxset from 2016

also is memo from turner really in mono in the above pictured compilation!?

because the back of the album says mono but the text on the back also says stereo for mft and ycagwyw



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-01 23:42 by ProfessorWolf.

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georgie48



"Imagine" is a word that John Lennon used many times in his famous song. But he basically said that all those things were facts. And looking back to what happened to him, imagination leads to nothing.

Digging into the details of facts appears to me as a much better way to waste our precious time

slightly OT. if imagination leads to nothing, is there a point to have fine arts in our life, at all. otherwise the stones could have been called "bbc radio 6 world news".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-02 09:08 by NathanLaze.

Quote
georgie48



"Imagine" is a word that John Lennon used many times in his famous song. But he basically said that all those things were facts. And looking back to what happened to him, imagination leads to nothing.

Digging into the details of facts appears to me as a much better way to waste our precious time

slightly OT. if imagination leads to nothing, is there a point to have fine arts in our life, at all. henceforth the stones could have been called "bbc radio 6 world news".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-02 09:09 by NathanLaze.

ROCKMAN

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Doxa

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jp.M



"I've been loving you too long " without false audience is also on "More hots rocks" (2002)....

Ok! So that's most likely is its first and most well-known appearance (or did it appear in the original MORE HOT ROCKS?).

- Doxa

....not on the originals two LPS and CDs...

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NathanLaze
whatever all this means, is...

MTF was released in 1970, so a majority of work could have been put between 1968 and 1970. i believe that mj lyrics were recorded later after Titelman sessions

No this is all incorrect. It is a solo song worked on by Jagger in 1968, and not in 1969 when he was working with the Stones. There's various remarks by Jagger, Richards, Jack Nitzsche, Rus Titelman and Al Kooper about writing and recording this track.

Mathijs

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Mathijs


No this is all incorrect. It is a solo song worked on by Jagger in 1968, and not in 1969 when he was working with the Stones. There's various remarks by Jagger, Richards, Jack Nitzsche, Rus Titelman and Al Kooper about writing and recording this track.

Mathijs

i didn't say i don't agree with the facts you report here. i've just said that MFT could have been written later after brian's death and altamont in case MJ observes lyrically what had happened prior to 1970. i don't see any other meaning of it. But in case MTF was written in 1968, then MJ surely made plans in form of this song about what was to happen later - circus, brian's death, meredith hunter and maybe some more. aren't that "facts" themselves...