Tell Me :
Talk
hamburger in a tube of "plasticon"
or perhaps its less confusing if i call it ground beef
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-08-31 06:50 by ProfessorWolf.
I always looked at it in a more "cruel" way, sort of the world upside down.
young men indeed sending old men to war (to clean up their own caused mess ...)
and the mother's meat from tubes of plasticon is merely that the girls eat their mother's meat after that their dead mother's remains had been put through a rince machine and then wrapped in plastic tubes.
Pretty cruel, I agree, but when I heard the lyrics for the first time in 1971, I think it was, (coming down to London to see the movie Performance) and connecting it to the mood in the room where Jagger (Turner) was singing to that bunch of gangsters, I thought it was quite obvious.
The whole song is filled with "cruelty"
... that black man drew his knife ...
... drowned that Jew in Rampton ...
descriptions of people:
... smaller piece of stick ...
... a part that's not screwed on ...
... the misbred grey executive ...
... daughter licks policemen's button clean ...
Mick's mind must have been somewhat in a nasty mood in those days ... which is not so strange considering all the sh*t that had happened to him and the Stones as of 1967 ...
I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town
Yeah, I like that. Jagger in a cruel mood. One can't go and examine and take apart every single word. anyone who has ever written song lyrics knows that half the time you have no idea what you're writing. Just high hopes.
Jimmy Thackery is one heck of a good guitar player if you ever get a chance to see him live!
too early, some of those references, aren't they?
MFT was written in 68 - way pre altamont, brian's death and sam cutler tour managing the band
rampton is a high-security mental hospital - i.e. prison
with the subject matter of 'performance, it could possibly (?) refer to samuel mitchell, the 'mad axeman' - friend of the kray twins - who served time there
and was subsequently murdered at their behest and his body dumped in the english channel
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-08-31 17:46 by rayrad.
Oh, yeah. I recall Rampton from a television documentary from the late-70's. I was a young kid then and it was shocking how the staff were treating the people there. That's why I have always remembered the 'Rampton' name with that horrible connotation. The other time I have heard that word was years later in "Memo From Turner", but I never thought the reference is the same.
Now I checked wiki and yeah, there was a 1979 documentary "Rampton - a secret hospital" that seemingly caused controversary at the time in UK.
- Doxa
thank you for that
very informative
Unlike songs like Street Fighting Man (Did everybody pay their dues) and As Tears Go By (As time goes by), the lyrics of MFT were like originally penned in 1968. So some assumptions like Brian's death or Cutler as tour manager can be put aside.
Even the original production of Performance dates from 1968. So references of the lyrics to a period following that year should not be taken seriously.
Nevertheless, the lyrics are a real challenge ...
I personally think the "Ry Gooder" version is a masterpiece
I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town
Yes, that was a good overview.
That is indeed a creepy one. Some (or maybe many) things "are written in the stars", as they say. Even Mick may have felt uncomfortable on this line in retrospect.
I personally experienced that a prediction I made (not meant to be a prediction at all, but more a concern) about a politician might get a bullet through his head due to his behaviour, in fact did get a bullet through his head only two weeks after I said it (luckily I was on the other side of the Atlantic when it happened). Very, very creepy.
I like Rocky Dijon's explanations though! They really make sence too
I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town
Yes this. It's obvious Jagger was reading some Burroughs at the time... or Marianne did and Mick pecked through the book(s).
Indeed Jagger read Burroughs, and not only at the time.
On the origin of "Undercover of The Night":
I’m not saying I nicked it, but this song was heavily influenced by William Burroughs; Cities Of The Red Night, a free-wheeling novel about political and sexual repression. (Mick Jagger)
Then we have, of course, "Casino Boogie":
That song was done in cut-ups. It’s in the style of William Burroughs, and so-on. “Million Dollar Sad” doesn’t mean anything. We did it in LA in the studio. We just wrote phrases on bits of paper and cut them up. The Burroughs style. And then you throw them into a hat, pick them out and assemble them into verses. We did it for one number, but it worked. We probably did it ‘cos we couldn’t think of anything to write. (Mick Jagger)
I think when we got to Casino Boogie, Mick and I looked at each other and just couldn;t think of another lyrical concept or idea for the song. I said to Mick, “You know how Bill Burroughs did that cut-up thing – where he would randomly chop words out of a book or newspaper and then try to sort them up?” That’s how we did the lyrics for Casino Boogie, and that was Bill Burroughs’ biggest influence on the Rolling Stones. (Keith Richards)
Keith was obviously influenced by Bill Burroughs, due to their mutual habits, by also other means:
Off of Bill Burroughs, I got apomorphine, along with Smitty, the vicious nurse from Cornwall. The cure that Gram Parsons and I did was total anti-heroin aversion therapy. And Smitty loved to administer it. “Time, boys.” There’s Parsons and me in my bed, “Oh no, here comes Smitty.” Gram and I need to take a cure just before the farewell tour of 1971, when he and his soon-to-be wife, Gretchen, came over to England and we went about our usual ways. Bill Burroughs recommended this hideous woman to administer the apomorphine that Burroughs talked endlessly about, a therapy that was pretty useless. But Burroughs swore by it. I didn’t know him that well, except to talk about dope — how to get off or how to get the quality you’re after. Smitty was Burroughs’ favorite nurse and she was a sadist and the cure consisted of her shooting you up with this shit and then standing over you. You do as you’re told. You don’t argue. “Stop sniveling, boy. You wouldn t be here if you hadn’t screwed up.” We took this cure in Cheyne Walk, and it was Gram and me in my four-poster bed, the only guy I ever slept with. Except we kept falling off the bed because we were twitching so much from the treatment. With a bucket to throw up in, if you could stop twitching for enough seconds to get near it. “You go the bucket, Gram?” Our only outlet, if we could stand up, would be to go down and play the piano and sing for a bit, or as much as possible to kill time. I wouldn’t recommend that cure to anybody. I wondered if that was Bill Burroughs’s joke, to send me to probably the worst cure he’d ever had. (Keith Richards, LIFE)
Interestingly, Keith was advertised to attend "Nova Convention", a three day happening to celebrate Burroughs by whatever means in late 1978, but his performance was cancelled at the last minute: the Stones PR people thought it wasn't the best strategy for the upcoming Toronto trials to be associated with celebrating "the Pope of Dope"... (Keith was replaced by Frank Zappa, by the way)
Burroughs himself attented the Marquee gig in 1971 - but wasn't too impressed: “That’s it. I never paid court. I don’t like their music. I don’t like rock and roll at all.”
That probably was his personal opinion, which didn't prevent him wanting the Stones at the time to contribute to the film version of NAKED LUNCH. Bill also seemingly loved Brian's Joujouka stuff, and always carried a cassette of it with himself. Also Jagger seemed to made an impression to him:
Mick gave off the impression of great energy and intelligence and a sort of special cool of knowing where his connections are going. I had admired his work, what I’d heard of it, and I also admired him because of the pressure he was under. There’s someone who is idolized and yet receives shockingly rude treatment. Six cabdrivers refused to have him in the cab when he and Marianne Faithfull arrived at the airport. There’s something about Mick that arouses great antagonism in a certain kind of person, the cabdriver-hardhat-redneck strata throughout the world, and to be able to stand up to that and be able to maintain his equilibrium and cool, as he certainly has, is quite something. (Burroughs, 1979)
Lastly, here is Burroughs on the Stones (some notes from archives at the time he was asked to cover the Stones 1972 Tour by supposedly SATURDAY REVIEW or PLAYBOY - a job he declined):
Ouston — Oston — Ewyork — Kif with the junkie from Gothenburg — opium jones cops bennie at the bounty bar — dead flowers bloom in the bottom of the dropper — everything is permitted at altamont — just a shot away — no sign of sympathy — master musicians Grateful Dead hashish assassins — hunting the hunter — under my thumb with a sticky trigger finger — goat gods beyond their depth in swimming pools — hot rocks rocks off — out of their heads on hot shots — bye bye Johnny Yen — Nellcote lies in the heart — madame rachou mrs Murphy Spanish tony — and head west wanted by the French police — bribing judges with creative capital — @#$%& orgasm in blue sparks — smell of jockstraps and top hats — antenna of jissom on pirate radio — 3000 tickets exploded in Montreal — riot noises feedback played back on abbey road — the subliminal kid tailor made solos — the pipes of pan — it will soon be here or not — butterfly wheels down Main Street — cruising for the man — waiting in line with mister jimmy — at bickford’s dunking pound cake — all my friends are purple ass baboons — hanged boy spurts spontaneous like Alice Cooper — roadies on the nod — groupies on the make — turd on the run — ladies and gentleman it’s a gas gas gas —
Far out stuff!
All the quotes and material picked up from: [realitystudio.org] A great read!
- Doxa
Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-01 14:55 by Doxa.
Jagger's vocals were recorded in September 1968, so the lyrics were most likely written around July or August 1968. The tape with Jagger's vocals was send to LA for the music to be recorded in December 1968, in absence of Jagger.
Mathijs
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Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
triceratops
()
Date: August 30, 2022 16:06
One of the best quasi-Stones tunes ever. This is in my top five of Stones. It has some variations that can be found on YouTube. Such as the original take that Mick did with Steve Winwood and others. Eventually the Stones "stole" Traffics producer, Jimmy Miller. Who was half brother to Judith Miller of the NY Times, who achieved her own recognition and fame. Their father Was Bill Miller who produced shows in Vegas in the 1950s
At the Dunes, he developed the first of the big Las Vegas production "feathershows", named Smart Affairs, and later developed burlesque shows Lido de Paris and the Folies Bergere with his former producer in New Jersey, Donn Arden.
Children: Jimmy Miller, Judith Miller, Susan Miller
Family: Jason Epstein (son-in-law)
Known for: Entertainment director of the Sahara, Dunes, Flamingo and International hotels in Las Vegas
Occupation: Impresario
Bill Miller (impresario) - Wikipedia
####Then Memo came with the Performance movie to add to its luster.
At the Dunes, he developed the first of the big Las Vegas production "feathershows", named Smart Affairs, and later developed burlesque shows Lido de Paris and the Folies Bergere with his former producer in New Jersey, Donn Arden.
Children: Jimmy Miller, Judith Miller, Susan Miller
Family: Jason Epstein (son-in-law)
Known for: Entertainment director of the Sahara, Dunes, Flamingo and International hotels in Las Vegas
Occupation: Impresario
Bill Miller (impresario) - Wikipedia
####Then Memo came with the Performance movie to add to its luster.
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
Kingbeebuzz
()
Date: August 30, 2022 17:03
I have always assumed (yes this is an assumption) that "Memo" is one of the very few songs that was deliberately written to "order", to fit the film "Performance".
The words of the song do seem to fit the characters and the scene in which it was used in the film.
If I remember correctly the song (film version, which is not by the Stones) was not heard until the film was released and was not available until the film soundtrack album was released.
Check the Nico site, but I also think the version on Metamorphosis appeared after the film soundtrack was released.........(but I haven't checked myself).
The words of the song do seem to fit the characters and the scene in which it was used in the film.
If I remember correctly the song (film version, which is not by the Stones) was not heard until the film was released and was not available until the film soundtrack album was released.
Check the Nico site, but I also think the version on Metamorphosis appeared after the film soundtrack was released.........(but I haven't checked myself).
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
Javadave
()
Date: August 30, 2022 20:02
Growing up outside Washington D.C., I first remember hearing this version by the original line-up of local favorites The Nighthawks:
[m.youtube.com]
Mark Wenner-Vocals, Harmonica
Jimmy Thackery-Guitar
Jan Zukowski-Bass
Pete Ragusa-Drums
I’d agree that it was written for the scene it was used for in Performance.
[m.youtube.com]
Mark Wenner-Vocals, Harmonica
Jimmy Thackery-Guitar
Jan Zukowski-Bass
Pete Ragusa-Drums
I’d agree that it was written for the scene it was used for in Performance.
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
ProfessorWolf
()
Date: August 31, 2022 02:23
i don't think the song has any specific overall meaning
but here's my best guess on some of the lyrics
When the old men do the fighting and the young men all look on
i assume about the "old men" sending the "young men" to fight in vietnam
And the young girls eat their mothers meat from tubes of plasticon
crazy crazy lyric love it
i think the meat in "tubes of plasticon" is hamburger and sausage wrapped in tubes of plastic
i wonder if this was a new thing at the time and thats why jagger decided to write about it
if there is a deeper meaning to this line i don't get it
maybe a comment on consumerism?
The baby is dead, my lady said
marianne had just had a miscarriage
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-08-31 02:26 by ProfessorWolf.
but here's my best guess on some of the lyrics
When the old men do the fighting and the young men all look on
i assume about the "old men" sending the "young men" to fight in vietnam
And the young girls eat their mothers meat from tubes of plasticon
crazy crazy lyric love it
i think the meat in "tubes of plasticon" is hamburger and sausage wrapped in tubes of plastic
i wonder if this was a new thing at the time and thats why jagger decided to write about it
if there is a deeper meaning to this line i don't get it
maybe a comment on consumerism?
The baby is dead, my lady said
marianne had just had a miscarriage
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-08-31 02:26 by ProfessorWolf.
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
angee
()
Date: August 31, 2022 05:04
"i think the meat in "tubes of plasticon" is hamburger and sausage wrapped in tubes of plastic"
Hmm? What is this? You mean burgers from fast food places wrapped in paper or well, I guess slimjims come in plastic cases...?
~"Love is Strong"~
Hmm? What is this? You mean burgers from fast food places wrapped in paper or well, I guess slimjims come in plastic cases...?
~"Love is Strong"~
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
ProfessorWolf
()
Date: August 31, 2022 06:45
hamburger in a tube of "plasticon"
or perhaps its less confusing if i call it ground beef
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-08-31 06:50 by ProfessorWolf.
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
Lady Jayne
()
Date: August 31, 2022 12:51
I think all the references to meat and the skin or wrapping (ie the outer covering which disguises the inner content) are a lot more layered than references to hamburgers. As with most Jagger lyrics, he's talking about sex, at least on one level.
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: August 31, 2022 14:25
Quote
ProfessorWolf
i don't think the song has any specific overall meaning
but here's my best guess on some of the lyrics
When the old men do the fighting and the young men all look on
i assume about the "old men" sending the "young men" to fight in vietnam
And the young girls eat their mothers meat from tubes of plasticon
I always looked at it in a more "cruel" way, sort of the world upside down.
young men indeed sending old men to war (to clean up their own caused mess ...)
and the mother's meat from tubes of plasticon is merely that the girls eat their mother's meat after that their dead mother's remains had been put through a rince machine and then wrapped in plastic tubes.
Pretty cruel, I agree, but when I heard the lyrics for the first time in 1971, I think it was, (coming down to London to see the movie Performance) and connecting it to the mood in the room where Jagger (Turner) was singing to that bunch of gangsters, I thought it was quite obvious.
The whole song is filled with "cruelty"
... that black man drew his knife ...
... drowned that Jew in Rampton ...
descriptions of people:
... smaller piece of stick ...
... a part that's not screwed on ...
... the misbred grey executive ...
... daughter licks policemen's button clean ...
Mick's mind must have been somewhat in a nasty mood in those days ... which is not so strange considering all the sh*t that had happened to him and the Stones as of 1967 ...
I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: August 31, 2022 14:37
Quote
georgie48Quote
ProfessorWolf
i don't think the song has any specific overall meaning
but here's my best guess on some of the lyrics
When the old men do the fighting and the young men all look on
i assume about the "old men" sending the "young men" to fight in vietnam
And the young girls eat their mothers meat from tubes of plasticon
I always looked at it in a more "cruel" way, sort of the world upside down.
young men indeed sending old men to war (to clean up their own caused mess ...)
and the mother's meat from tubes of plasticon is merely that the girls eat their mother's meat after that their dead mother's remains had been put through a rince machine and then wrapped in plastic tubes.
Pretty cruel, I agree, but when I heard the lyrics for the first time in 1971, I think it was, (coming down to London to see the movie Performance) and connecting it to the mood in the room where Jagger (Turner) was singing to that bunch of gangsters, I thought it was quite obvious.
The whole song is filled with "cruelty"
... that black man drew his knife ...
... drowned that Jew in Rampton ...
descriptions of people:
... smaller piece of stick ...
... a part that's not screwed on ...
... the misbred grey executive ...
... daughter licks policemen's button clean ...
Mick's mind must have been somewhat in a nasty mood in those days ... which is not so strange considering all the sh*t that had happened to him and the Stones as of 1967 ...
Yeah, I like that. Jagger in a cruel mood. One can't go and examine and take apart every single word. anyone who has ever written song lyrics knows that half the time you have no idea what you're writing. Just high hopes.
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
NathanLaze
()
Date: August 31, 2022 14:57
... that black man drew his knife ...
wasn't it Meredith Hunter at Altamont??
...eating eggs at Sammy's...
Sam (Sammy?) Cutler was the Stones' 1969 tour promoter, isn't it ?
.. drowned that Jew in Rampton ...
wasn't it Brian in his pool ?
...And the young girls eat their mothers meat from tubes of plasticon...
food in tubes is usually for spacemen in the spaceship
wasn't it Meredith Hunter at Altamont??
...eating eggs at Sammy's...
Sam (Sammy?) Cutler was the Stones' 1969 tour promoter, isn't it ?
.. drowned that Jew in Rampton ...
wasn't it Brian in his pool ?
...And the young girls eat their mothers meat from tubes of plasticon...
food in tubes is usually for spacemen in the spaceship
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
kovach
()
Date: August 31, 2022 16:53
Quote
Javadave
Growing up outside Washington D.C., I first remember hearing this version by the original line-up of local favorites The Nighthawks:
[m.youtube.com]
Mark Wenner-Vocals, Harmonica
Jimmy Thackery-Guitar
Jan Zukowski-Bass
Pete Ragusa-Drums
I’d agree that it was written for the scene it was used for in Performance.
Jimmy Thackery is one heck of a good guitar player if you ever get a chance to see him live!
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: August 31, 2022 17:15
All I know and care about is that it is ace!
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
NashvilleBlues
()
Date: August 31, 2022 17:22
Metamorphosis is an excellent compilation. Love Memo and Jiving Sister Fanny!
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
rayrad
()
Date: August 31, 2022 17:39
Quote
NathanLaze
... that black man drew his knife ...
wasn't it Meredith Hunter at Altamont??
...eating eggs at Sammy's...
Sam (Sammy?) Cutler was the Stones' 1969 tour promoter, isn't it ?
.. drowned that Jew in Rampton ...
wasn't it Brian in his pool ?
...And the young girls eat their mothers meat from tubes of plasticon...
food in tubes is usually for spacemen in the spaceship
too early, some of those references, aren't they?
MFT was written in 68 - way pre altamont, brian's death and sam cutler tour managing the band
rampton is a high-security mental hospital - i.e. prison
with the subject matter of 'performance, it could possibly (?) refer to samuel mitchell, the 'mad axeman' - friend of the kray twins - who served time there
and was subsequently murdered at their behest and his body dumped in the english channel
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-08-31 17:46 by rayrad.
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
NathanLaze
()
Date: August 31, 2022 19:05
MTF was written in 68 according to many books, but Performance was released in 1970. have this in mind, please. in 1970! so far, i am not saying that the exact date of the recording is sourced from many books but none of these sources are "authorised", ie coming from the stones' mouths themselves. btw, the song could have been "evolved" a hundred times from its initial concept in 68 to initial release & final production in 70.
a mental hospital io Rampton, isn't it a nod to "Priory Nursing Home" which, as we all knew had, helped to cure Ronnie from alcohol abuse (succecfully and much later) and unsuccesfully - Brian, when he was put to Priory due to his "court" doctor desicion who claimed that Brian have had "psychical" problems in the form of "suicide ideas" ie... how that was written in many of his biographies y know....
a mental hospital io Rampton, isn't it a nod to "Priory Nursing Home" which, as we all knew had, helped to cure Ronnie from alcohol abuse (succecfully and much later) and unsuccesfully - Brian, when he was put to Priory due to his "court" doctor desicion who claimed that Brian have had "psychical" problems in the form of "suicide ideas" ie... how that was written in many of his biographies y know....
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
NathanLaze
()
Date: August 31, 2022 19:10
...you'll still be in the circus when i am laughing in my grave...
aren't they the final words of MFT ?? r'n'r circus was recorded in dec.68 and released in 1996 when brian was "in his grave" already. seems an appropriate comparison having in mind that this was "too early"...
aren't they the final words of MFT ?? r'n'r circus was recorded in dec.68 and released in 1996 when brian was "in his grave" already. seems an appropriate comparison having in mind that this was "too early"...
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: August 31, 2022 19:47
Quote
rayrad
rampton is a high-security mental hospital - i.e. prison
with the subject matter of 'performance, it could possibly (?) refer to samuel mitchell, the 'mad axeman' - friend of the kray twins - who served time there
and was subsequently murdered at their behest and his body dumped in the english channel
Oh, yeah. I recall Rampton from a television documentary from the late-70's. I was a young kid then and it was shocking how the staff were treating the people there. That's why I have always remembered the 'Rampton' name with that horrible connotation. The other time I have heard that word was years later in "Memo From Turner", but I never thought the reference is the same.
Now I checked wiki and yeah, there was a 1979 documentary "Rampton - a secret hospital" that seemingly caused controversary at the time in UK.
- Doxa
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: August 31, 2022 20:38
I don't know what this song is all about, but the version with Cooder on slide is one of the best studio songs with Jagger on vocals I have ever heard.
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: August 31, 2022 20:52
Quote
TheflyingDutchman
I don't know what this song is all about, but the version with Cooder on slide is one of the best studio songs with Jagger on vocals I have ever heard.
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: August 31, 2022 22:09
Sammy's Restaurant in San Antonio has been around since the 1940s. The song is a mean-spirited observation that everyone has something to hide. The Spanish-speaking gentleman called Kurt is a suggestion of a German who went to South America after the war. Fixing your business straight is as much about former mobsters going legit as it is about a respectable man with a homosexual past. The Soft Machine reference always amused me. Jagger likely was referencing William S. Burroughs, but Marsha Hunt was married to Mike Ratledge, bass player for the contemporaneous British rock band, The Soft Machine. That band started in Cambridge. Rampton is a suburb of Cambridge. Coincidental? Maybe. The important thing is that Mick paints himself a Satanic figure laughing in his grave, content to know these hypocrites all work for him, and satisfied that he has no illusions about himself and nothing to hide unlike everyone else.
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
ProfessorWolf
()
Date: August 31, 2022 23:23
Quote
Rocky Dijon
Sammy's Restaurant in San Antonio has been around since the 1940s. The song is a mean-spirited observation that everyone has something to hide. The Spanish-speaking gentleman called Kurt is a suggestion of a German who went to South America after the war. Fixing your business straight is as much about former mobsters going legit as it is about a respectable man with a homosexual past. The Soft Machine reference always amused me. Jagger likely was referencing William S. Burroughs, but Marsha Hunt was married to Mike Ratledge, bass player for the contemporaneous British rock band, The Soft Machine. That band started in Cambridge. Rampton is a suburb of Cambridge. Coincidental? Maybe. The important thing is that Mick paints himself a Satanic figure laughing in his grave, content to know these hypocrites all work for him, and satisfied that he has no illusions about himself and nothing to hide unlike everyone else.
thank you for that
very informative
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
georgie48
()
Date: September 1, 2022 00:04
Quote
rayradQuote
NathanLaze
... that black man drew his knife ...
wasn't it Meredith Hunter at Altamont??
...eating eggs at Sammy's...
Sam (Sammy?) Cutler was the Stones' 1969 tour promoter, isn't it ?
.. drowned that Jew in Rampton ...
wasn't it Brian in his pool ?
...And the young girls eat their mothers meat from tubes of plasticon...
food in tubes is usually for spacemen in the spaceship
too early, some of those references, aren't they?
MFT was written in 68 - way pre altamont, brian's death and sam cutler tour managing the band
rampton is a high-security mental hospital - i.e. prison
with the subject matter of 'performance, it could possibly (?) refer to samuel mitchell, the 'mad axeman' - friend of the kray twins - who served time there
and was subsequently murdered at their behest and his body dumped in the english channel
Unlike songs like Street Fighting Man (Did everybody pay their dues) and As Tears Go By (As time goes by), the lyrics of MFT were like originally penned in 1968. So some assumptions like Brian's death or Cutler as tour manager can be put aside.
Even the original production of Performance dates from 1968. So references of the lyrics to a period following that year should not be taken seriously.
Nevertheless, the lyrics are a real challenge ...
I personally think the "Ry Gooder" version is a masterpiece
I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: September 1, 2022 05:18
Quote
ProfessorWolfQuote
Rocky Dijon
Sammy's Restaurant in San Antonio has been around since the 1940s. The song is a mean-spirited observation that everyone has something to hide. The Spanish-speaking gentleman called Kurt is a suggestion of a German who went to South America after the war. Fixing your business straight is as much about former mobsters going legit as it is about a respectable man with a homosexual past. The Soft Machine reference always amused me. Jagger likely was referencing William S. Burroughs, but Marsha Hunt was married to Mike Ratledge, bass player for the contemporaneous British rock band, The Soft Machine. That band started in Cambridge. Rampton is a suburb of Cambridge. Coincidental? Maybe. The important thing is that Mick paints himself a Satanic figure laughing in his grave, content to know these hypocrites all work for him, and satisfied that he has no illusions about himself and nothing to hide unlike everyone else.
thank you for that
very informative
Yes, that was a good overview.
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
NathanLaze
()
Date: September 1, 2022 07:08
so what about the "circus"
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
georgie48
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Date: September 1, 2022 10:31
Quote
NathanLaze
so what about the "circus"
That is indeed a creepy one. Some (or maybe many) things "are written in the stars", as they say. Even Mick may have felt uncomfortable on this line in retrospect.
I personally experienced that a prediction I made (not meant to be a prediction at all, but more a concern) about a politician might get a bullet through his head due to his behaviour, in fact did get a bullet through his head only two weeks after I said it (luckily I was on the other side of the Atlantic when it happened). Very, very creepy.
I like Rocky Dijon's explanations though! They really make sence too
I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
dcba
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Date: September 1, 2022 10:47
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Rocky Dijon
The Soft Machine reference always amused me. Jagger likely was referencing William S. Burroughs
Yes this. It's obvious Jagger was reading some Burroughs at the time... or Marianne did and Mick pecked through the book(s).
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: September 1, 2022 12:43
The song Some Girls gives me the same Jagger vibe
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: September 1, 2022 14:15
Quote
dcbaQuote
Rocky Dijon
The Soft Machine reference always amused me. Jagger likely was referencing William S. Burroughs
Yes this. It's obvious Jagger was reading some Burroughs at the time... or Marianne did and Mick pecked through the book(s).
Indeed Jagger read Burroughs, and not only at the time.
On the origin of "Undercover of The Night":
I’m not saying I nicked it, but this song was heavily influenced by William Burroughs; Cities Of The Red Night, a free-wheeling novel about political and sexual repression. (Mick Jagger)
Then we have, of course, "Casino Boogie":
That song was done in cut-ups. It’s in the style of William Burroughs, and so-on. “Million Dollar Sad” doesn’t mean anything. We did it in LA in the studio. We just wrote phrases on bits of paper and cut them up. The Burroughs style. And then you throw them into a hat, pick them out and assemble them into verses. We did it for one number, but it worked. We probably did it ‘cos we couldn’t think of anything to write. (Mick Jagger)
I think when we got to Casino Boogie, Mick and I looked at each other and just couldn;t think of another lyrical concept or idea for the song. I said to Mick, “You know how Bill Burroughs did that cut-up thing – where he would randomly chop words out of a book or newspaper and then try to sort them up?” That’s how we did the lyrics for Casino Boogie, and that was Bill Burroughs’ biggest influence on the Rolling Stones. (Keith Richards)
Keith was obviously influenced by Bill Burroughs, due to their mutual habits, by also other means:
Off of Bill Burroughs, I got apomorphine, along with Smitty, the vicious nurse from Cornwall. The cure that Gram Parsons and I did was total anti-heroin aversion therapy. And Smitty loved to administer it. “Time, boys.” There’s Parsons and me in my bed, “Oh no, here comes Smitty.” Gram and I need to take a cure just before the farewell tour of 1971, when he and his soon-to-be wife, Gretchen, came over to England and we went about our usual ways. Bill Burroughs recommended this hideous woman to administer the apomorphine that Burroughs talked endlessly about, a therapy that was pretty useless. But Burroughs swore by it. I didn’t know him that well, except to talk about dope — how to get off or how to get the quality you’re after. Smitty was Burroughs’ favorite nurse and she was a sadist and the cure consisted of her shooting you up with this shit and then standing over you. You do as you’re told. You don’t argue. “Stop sniveling, boy. You wouldn t be here if you hadn’t screwed up.” We took this cure in Cheyne Walk, and it was Gram and me in my four-poster bed, the only guy I ever slept with. Except we kept falling off the bed because we were twitching so much from the treatment. With a bucket to throw up in, if you could stop twitching for enough seconds to get near it. “You go the bucket, Gram?” Our only outlet, if we could stand up, would be to go down and play the piano and sing for a bit, or as much as possible to kill time. I wouldn’t recommend that cure to anybody. I wondered if that was Bill Burroughs’s joke, to send me to probably the worst cure he’d ever had. (Keith Richards, LIFE)
Interestingly, Keith was advertised to attend "Nova Convention", a three day happening to celebrate Burroughs by whatever means in late 1978, but his performance was cancelled at the last minute: the Stones PR people thought it wasn't the best strategy for the upcoming Toronto trials to be associated with celebrating "the Pope of Dope"... (Keith was replaced by Frank Zappa, by the way)
Burroughs himself attented the Marquee gig in 1971 - but wasn't too impressed: “That’s it. I never paid court. I don’t like their music. I don’t like rock and roll at all.”
That probably was his personal opinion, which didn't prevent him wanting the Stones at the time to contribute to the film version of NAKED LUNCH. Bill also seemingly loved Brian's Joujouka stuff, and always carried a cassette of it with himself. Also Jagger seemed to made an impression to him:
Mick gave off the impression of great energy and intelligence and a sort of special cool of knowing where his connections are going. I had admired his work, what I’d heard of it, and I also admired him because of the pressure he was under. There’s someone who is idolized and yet receives shockingly rude treatment. Six cabdrivers refused to have him in the cab when he and Marianne Faithfull arrived at the airport. There’s something about Mick that arouses great antagonism in a certain kind of person, the cabdriver-hardhat-redneck strata throughout the world, and to be able to stand up to that and be able to maintain his equilibrium and cool, as he certainly has, is quite something. (Burroughs, 1979)
Lastly, here is Burroughs on the Stones (some notes from archives at the time he was asked to cover the Stones 1972 Tour by supposedly SATURDAY REVIEW or PLAYBOY - a job he declined):
Ouston — Oston — Ewyork — Kif with the junkie from Gothenburg — opium jones cops bennie at the bounty bar — dead flowers bloom in the bottom of the dropper — everything is permitted at altamont — just a shot away — no sign of sympathy — master musicians Grateful Dead hashish assassins — hunting the hunter — under my thumb with a sticky trigger finger — goat gods beyond their depth in swimming pools — hot rocks rocks off — out of their heads on hot shots — bye bye Johnny Yen — Nellcote lies in the heart — madame rachou mrs Murphy Spanish tony — and head west wanted by the French police — bribing judges with creative capital — @#$%& orgasm in blue sparks — smell of jockstraps and top hats — antenna of jissom on pirate radio — 3000 tickets exploded in Montreal — riot noises feedback played back on abbey road — the subliminal kid tailor made solos — the pipes of pan — it will soon be here or not — butterfly wheels down Main Street — cruising for the man — waiting in line with mister jimmy — at bickford’s dunking pound cake — all my friends are purple ass baboons — hanged boy spurts spontaneous like Alice Cooper — roadies on the nod — groupies on the make — turd on the run — ladies and gentleman it’s a gas gas gas —
Far out stuff!
All the quotes and material picked up from: [realitystudio.org] A great read!
- Doxa
Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2022-09-01 14:55 by Doxa.
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
Mathijs
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Date: September 1, 2022 14:55
Quote
georgie48Quote
rayradQuote
NathanLaze
... that black man drew his knife ...
wasn't it Meredith Hunter at Altamont??
...eating eggs at Sammy's...
Sam (Sammy?) Cutler was the Stones' 1969 tour promoter, isn't it ?
.. drowned that Jew in Rampton ...
wasn't it Brian in his pool ?
...And the young girls eat their mothers meat from tubes of plasticon...
food in tubes is usually for spacemen in the spaceship
too early, some of those references, aren't they?
MFT was written in 68 - way pre altamont, brian's death and sam cutler tour managing the band
rampton is a high-security mental hospital - i.e. prison
with the subject matter of 'performance, it could possibly (?) refer to samuel mitchell, the 'mad axeman' - friend of the kray twins - who served time there
and was subsequently murdered at their behest and his body dumped in the english channel
Unlike songs like Street Fighting Man (Did everybody pay their dues) and As Tears Go By (As time goes by), the lyrics of MFT were like originally penned in 1968. So some assumptions like Brian's death or Cutler as tour manager can be put aside.
Even the original production of Performance dates from 1968. So references of the lyrics to a period following that year should not be taken seriously.
Nevertheless, the lyrics are a real challenge ...
I personally think the "Ry Gooder" version is a masterpiece
Jagger's vocals were recorded in September 1968, so the lyrics were most likely written around July or August 1968. The tape with Jagger's vocals was send to LA for the music to be recorded in December 1968, in absence of Jagger.
Mathijs
Re: Memo from Turner -- What is its meaning?
Posted by:
Spud
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Date: September 1, 2022 15:01
would never normally have had any time for this song, in any version.
It's not the Stones, it's not one of Mick's best vocals....
...but as a vehicle for Ry Cooder's sublime slide...it achieves redemption
It's not the Stones, it's not one of Mick's best vocals....
...but as a vehicle for Ry Cooder's sublime slide...it achieves redemption
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