Couldn’t agree more. I loved Not For Beginners! Which weirdly doesn’t seem to be on iTunes

Couldn’t agree more. I loved Not For Beginners!

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DirtyT
this track track is so smooth. another song that if done by the stones might have had a better life . I could picture it as a some girls or steel wheels track.

Ronnie’s stuff in the 70s was the go to music for hardcore Stones fans between the bands release’s.
I’ve never changed my position that his solo stuff is better than anything Mick or Keith did outside the band.
I’ve got my own album, Now Look and Gimme some neck are nothing short of great albums.
Mick, Keith , Mick Taylor, Rod Stewart, Kenny Jones, Bobby Keys, Mac,George Harrison, Bobby Womack, and many,many other greats are on those records and the results are stunning.
This particular song was originally on Now Look, I think the old joke about vinyl was - I played it so much you could hear both sides at once.

Featuring Joe Elliot of Def Leapard and co-written by B Fowler
Great track in my humble opinion.
this is part of my narrative that Ron's solo songs are very strong and maybe should have a couple more efforts with the boys..

another very strong song from his solo catalog. another song that should have had a shot for stones album. i know he's not part of that process but maybe he should have pushed. too late now im sure for his ideas.

I think you mean this great song

Why you wanna go and do a thing like that for

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lem motlow

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DirtyT
this track track is so smooth. another song that if done by the stones might have had a better life . I could picture it as a some girls or steel wheels track.

Ronnie’s stuff in the 70s was the go to music for hardcore Stones fans between the bands release’s.
I’ve never changed my position that his solo stuff is better than anything Mick or Keith did outside the band.
I’ve got my own album, Now Look and Gimme some neck are nothing short of great albums.
Mick, Keith , Mick Taylor, Rod Stewart, Kenny Jones, Bobby Keys, Mac,George Harrison, Bobby Womack, and many,many other greats are on those records and the results are stunning.
This particular song was originally on Now Look, I think the old joke about vinyl was - I played it so much you could hear both sides at once.

Strongly agree. I Feel Like Playing, imho, is the best output by any individual Stone, ever.- Also doesn't hurt to have Slash as your guest guitarist. Not a bad track on it which is a lot more than you can say for either Mick or Keith's solo efforts.. Not the greatest voice in the world but the emotion is there.

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guyrachel
Couldn’t agree more. I loved Not For Beginners! Which weirdly doesn’t seem to be on iTunes

Not For Beginners was definitely on repeat a lot when it first came out. A quaint, home-studio vibe that was a little rough around the edges. Lot of great musical moments with Scotty Moore and Dylan picking together. Shame it's not on the streaming platforms.

Slide On This either. Another classic.

This is one of Ronnie's grooviest. A helping of Mick and Keith could have shaped this into a great album track, it's in the Love Is Strong realm but dunno if it can reach those levels.

video: [www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-02 22:28 by Justin.

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Justin

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guyrachel
Couldn’t agree more. I loved Not For Beginners! Which weirdly doesn’t seem to be on iTunes

Not For Beginners was definitely on repeat a lot when it first came out. A quaint, home-studio vibe that was a little rough around the edges. Lot of great musical moments with Scotty Moore and Dylan picking together. Shame it's not on the streaming platforms.

Slide On This either. Another classic.

This is one of Ronnie's grooviest. A helping of Mick and Keith could have shaped this into a great album track, it's in the Love Is Strong realm but dunno if it can reach those levels.

video: [www.youtube.com]

...I agree on Real Hard Rocker.
A while ago I wrote on this forum about how much I loved Not For Beginners, but most of the comments said this was Ronnie's worst album.
I have never changed my opinion, I really think that Not For Beginners is good, but it is also a particular album that at first listen may not satisfy much, but then after some careful listening it grows and it is one of the albums I listen to more often.
Another fantastic album from Ronnie is the live Slide on Live: Plugged in and Standing I love it, I also really like Slide on This.
I think overall Ronnie has always made good albums, some stand out more, but in all of them there is always at least a couple of great songs.

Two versions of "Forever" an absolute gem (and one that I would love to hear the Stones perform)


[www.youtube.com]


This one with Keith in '74

[www.youtube.com]

Somebody on this very board wrote years ago that Ron Wood had recorded 3 unreleased albums during the 90s. I don't know if this is just a rumour or hubris or if there is something to it. But if there were indeed recordings from this era, I'd sure love to listen them, on the strength of "Slide on This" and "Not For Beginners" alone.

I love the "I wish 80 year old Mick and Keith would suddenly let Ronnie sing and write" threads. I hope Taylor and Wyman see these threads just for the sheer entertainment value.

I like Lem's description of Ronnie's stuff being hardcore Stones fan item. Because that it is. Personally I am not that big Stones fan, since I see it as a pretty mediocre stuff. Without the Stones connection, I wouldn't care a shit about it. That kind of 'stylistically' easy listenable, obvious 'rootsie' music could be done anywhere, anytime by anyone. If this lad had no name as as a 'Face' or a 'Rolling Stone', or having so many big star friends, he would never have had a record deal, I would assume. I hear that stuff being done much better by 'lesser names' locally all over the world. .

Yep. Ronnie contributed to the Stones. What? "It'only Rock'n'Roll" being one with some sort of real relevance, although that mostly based on Jagger's clever lyrics. "Hey Negrita", "Black Limousine" etc. Marginal stuff in their legacy. An okay riff here or there for an album filler. Once again, hardcore fan items, not really making any difference.

Yep. Jagger/Richards. Lennon/McCartney. Dylan. True makers. True talents. The voice. The point. The legacy. The category of some Woods and Wymans belongs to somewhere else. The world is full of Woods and Wymans (unfortunately not all of them being members of the Rolling Stones).

The Stones fall down or not with Mick and Keith, and with their artistic sight. No need any other lesser mortals with their mediocre skills, sights and visions. Anyone can write mediocre stuff. Even Mick and Keith - they don't need help in that.

A reply to an original, provocative post:

No. Mick or Keith couldn't care less what Ronnie's solo work is weighted against theirs (by whom? A couple of idiots here?). Only a couple of hardcore Stones fans even know there even exist such a catalogue.

- Doxa



Edited 8 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-04 02:50 by Doxa.

Ronnie is a helluva guitarist, but that's it. You wanna here more Wood contributing to the music of the Rolling Stones as a composer? Listen to DIRTY WORK. That it is what happens when lesser boys are given a try.

Ronnie, do you your solo albums for the joy of hardcore fans, but let the big boys take care of the Stones (well, they do anyhow - since DIRTY WORK Mick and Keith have ignored Ronnie totally - and rightly so).

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-04 02:46 by Doxa.

That's harsh

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kkhoranstoned
That's harsh

Harsh maybe, but more than that it's brutally honest and quite possibly closer to reality than a lot of fanboy thinking in this thread that anything, apart from I Can Feel The Fire and one or two other tracks is actually in the Stones' league.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-04 17:46 by retired_dog.

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Doxa
.... Only a couple of hardcore Stones fans even know there even exist such a catalogue....
- Doxa

Yeah, Ronnie had no career before the Stones. And not sure how any other artist ever worked with him, including the likes of Clapton, Dylan, Stewart, Beck, McLagan, Harrison, Deep Purple, Townshend, Winwood, and countless others -- all BEFORE he was a Stone. Very odd for someone "w/ pretty mediocre stuff" and only capable of "An okay riff here or there."

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kkhoranstoned
That's harsh

More like obnoxiously dickish.

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Doxa
I like Lem's description of Ronnie's stuff being hardcore Stones fan item. Because that it is. Personally I am not that big Stones fan, since I see it as a pretty mediocre stuff. Without the Stones connection, I wouldn't care a shit about it.

[www.youtube.com]

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LeonidP

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Doxa
.... Only a couple of hardcore Stones fans even know there even exist such a catalogue....
- Doxa

Yeah, Ronnie had no career before the Stones. And not sure how any other artist ever worked with him, including the likes of Clapton, Dylan, Stewart, Beck, McLagan, Harrison, Deep Purple, Townshend, Winwood, and countless others -- all BEFORE he was a Stone. Very odd for someone "w/ pretty mediocre stuff" and only capable of "An okay riff here or there."

That's not the point. Ronnie's a great, talented and charismatic musician, and a great a guy, and since no having ego problems, he's a great team player. No wonder anyone likes to have him around and play with him. But when it comes to his solo catalog, in where he is the boss, sings his own songs, and is making whole albums out of them, that's where the greatness disappears and mediocrity shows up. Wasn't his solo catalog we talk about here, right?

But anyway, that's just my opinion.

- Doxa

Right, Doxa. Agree.

I remind everyone that Ronnie has also signed historical pieces with Rod S. and the Faces, for example Every Picture Tells a Story, Gasoline Alley and many others.

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retired_dog

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kkhoranstoned
That's harsh

Harsh maybe, but more than that it's brutally honest and quite possibly closer to reality than a lot of fanboy thinking in this thread that anything, apart from I Can Feel The Fire and one or two other tracks are actually in the Stones' league.

Yeah. For me claiming Wood to belong to the rank of Jagger/Richards as a song writer, or him being 'equal' to Mick and Keith in Stones writing department, is actually belittlening the actual greatness and uniqueness of Rolling Stones music, that is, the power of Jagger/Richards songs. True that Mick and Keith have lost a lot of their creative brilliance - the times of "Paint It Black", "Gimme Shelter" and "Brown Sugar" are long gone - but to think that Ronnie could somehow compensate that creative downhill is a fatal error me thinks. Nothing indicates if one listens Ronnie's solo albums that any help from that direction might arrive. If the Stones are doomed to mediocracy I prefer to hear Mick and Keith's mediocre songs than Ronnie's. They still have the original, self-made vision of the Stones music. They still have a bit of that unique, idiosyncratic skill left and still occasionally come up with a thing like "Living in A Ghost Town". Ronnie might at best inspire or help either of the big boys, but I am sure he would be first to admit that he has no role in creative guidance - The Stones are Mick and Keith's baby.

Maybe the situation might be different if Ronnie had once came up with songs like "Satisfaction", "Gimme Shelter", "Sympathy For The Devil", "Honky Tonk Women", "You Can't Always Get What You Want", "Wild Horses", "Tumbling Dice", "Angie", "Miss You", "Start Me Up", etc. Or if he'd be, say, Bob Dylan or Paul McCartney. But he's not, and there's none of that in Ron's CV. A thing like "Stay With Me", a heralded cult classic of diehard Rod Stewart and Stones fans, is supposed to be a sign of Ronnie's artistic skills. But no matter how funny little rocker it is, I don't think the Stones would have found room for it in STICKY FINGERS or EXILE. Namely, that was the context then. Mick and Keith were artistically in another planet at the time, in the height of their creative powers.

I think the funny, but problematic feature of a fanboy or a specialist position is that it relativizes and trivializes the quality standard. That what 'I love it all' does. The absolute peaks are taken for granted, and one comes up with such judgments as "Hey Negrita" or "Everything's Turning to Gold" is, if not the best thing the Stones ever have done, but somehow comparable to their best songs. And then they wonder why the Stones themselves treat pieces like that as album fillers or single B sides (and never perform live). Surely for us Stones maniacs songs like that offer depth to their catalog, but had the Stones trusted their career on songs of that caliber, they'd been yesterday's papers a long time ago. Or ever got to the position they have.

- Doxa



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-04 16:21 by Doxa.

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Doxa
Yeah. For me claiming Wood to belong to the rank of Jagger/Richards as a song writer is actually belittlening the actual greatness and uniqueness of Rolling Stones music, that is, the power of Jagger/Richards songs...

Pretty sure any comments in comparing were strictly regarding solo works - and that would be valid. No one can attempt to claim Wood can come close to Jagger/Richards in regards to classic Stones songs.

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Doxa

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retired_dog

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kkhoranstoned
That's harsh

Harsh maybe, but more than that it's brutally honest and quite possibly closer to reality than a lot of fanboy thinking in this thread that anything, apart from I Can Feel The Fire and one or two other tracks is actually in the Stones' league.

Yeah. For me claiming Wood to belong to the rank of Jagger/Richards as a song writer, or him being 'equal' to Mick and Keith in Stones writing department, is actually belittlening the actual greatness and uniqueness of Rolling Stones music, that is, the power of Jagger/Richards songs. True that Mick and Keith have lost a lot of their creative brilliance - the times of "Paint It Black", "Gimme Shelter" and "Brown Sugar" are long gone - but to think that Ronnie could somehow compensate that creative downhill is a fatal error me thinks. Nothing indicates if one listens Ronnie's solo albums that any help from that direction might arrive. If the Stones are doomed to mediocracy I prefer to hear Mick and Keith's mediocre songs than Ronnie's. They still have the original, self-made vision of the Stones music. They still have a bit of that unique, idiosyncratic skill left and still occasionally come up with a thing like "Living in A Ghost Town". Ronnie might at best inspire or help either of the big boys, but I am sure he would be first to admit that he has no role in creative guidance - The Stones are Mick and Keith's baby.

Maybe the situation might be different if Ronnie had once came up with songs like "Satisfaction", "Gimme Shelter", "Sympathy For The Devil", "Honky Tonk Women", "You Can't Always Get What You Want", "Wild Horses", "Tumbling Dice", "Angie", "Miss You", "Start Me Up", etc. Or if he'd be, say, Bob Dylan or Paul McCartney. But he's not, and there's none of that in Ron's CV. A thing like "Stay With Me", a heralded cult classic of diehard Rod Stewart and Stones fans, is supposed to be a sign of Ronnie's artistic skills. But no matter how funny little rocker it is, I don't think the Stones would have found room for it in STICKY FINGERS or EXILE. Namely, that was the context then. Mick and Keith were artistically in another planet at the time, in the height of their creative powers.

I think the funny, but problematic feature of a fanboy or a specialist position is that it relativizes and trivializes the quality standard. That what 'I love it all' does. The absolute peaks are taken for granted, and one comes up with such judgments as "Hey Negrita" or "Everything's Turning to Gold" is, if not the best thing the Stones ever have done, but somehow comparable to their best songs. And then they wonder why the Stones themselves treat pieces like that as album fillers or single B sides (and never perform live). Surely for us Stones maniacs songs like that offer depth to their catalog, but had the Stones trusted their career on songs of that caliber, they'd been yesterday's papers a long time ago. Or ever got to the position they have.

- Doxa

That's exactly the point. And there's more to it: How often have I've been "tricked" to listen to certain albums or songs from lesser artists through terms like "absolute gem" or "forgotten classic" or by dropping Stones, Dylan, Beatles or whoever comparisons only to discover that while the recommended material may be nice, fun to listen to or even good to occasionally excellent, but that the greatest artists and songwriters of all time are actually greatest artists and songwriters of all time for a reason...

Superlative terms are used far too often imo, not least on this board.

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LeonidP

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Doxa
Yeah. For me claiming Wood to belong to the rank of Jagger/Richards as a song writer is actually belittlening the actual greatness and uniqueness of Rolling Stones music, that is, the power of Jagger/Richards songs...

Pretty sure any comments in comparing were strictly regarding solo works - and that would be valid. No one can attempt to claim Wood can come close to Jagger/Richards in regards to classic Stones songs.

Fair enough. Let's talk that.

It is not valid. Ronnie had his solo moments during the 70's when Mick and Keith were still busy with the Stones. And both gave a helping hand, and some of their gold dust over his music. At best I'VE GOT MY OWN ALBUM TO DO had Stonesian moments, since the big boys were involved. "I Can Feel The Fire" and "The Sure One You Need" shines through (but neither considered good enough for a Stones use). But even having the mighty Stones involved might lead to terrible results, as a mess like GIMME SOME NECK shows. However, it contains the best individual Stones solo track ever next to "Meno From Turner", "Seven Days" (and I agree with one review at the time stating that it's the only actually composed song in the album, the others being just raw templates, although I give snall nod to "Buried Alive").

Ronnie released two other albums as well during the 70's/early 80's, pretty uneven ones, both lacking a purpose or a point - just showcases what a solo album can mean: aren't I supposed, being a big name enough, to do things like that, and the record company is kind enough to release them? Bil Wyman released a couple of these luxury items as well. The challenge for a listener in both cases (Ron & Bill) is to study how terrible the lead vocals can be in order to make the music unlistenable. Mick Taylor later joined the club of rather pointless solo albums (although he had something else the others did not: ambition) .

So the legacy of Ronnie's seventies solo albums is: totally forgettable, vanity projects. Think of the context: they were released at the time when 'classic rock' still ruled, everybody was young, and people were releasing weekly incredible albums. Why to waste time now to dig up these weak solo efforts?

But then the Big Boys went solo. They put their Rolling Stones energy, vision and heart into their solo projects. For us fans, and the whole world, was intersting to see what was Mick without Keith and vice versa. Interestingly, while neither was able to come up with anything comparable to their best joint efforts, and today all of their solo output is pretty forgettable (a die-hard fan item), the spirit of the Rolling Stones as creative artists could be heard there. All of their solo efforts are statements, having a point. Mick wanted to show the world that he can be a big solo artist in his own right, Keith to Mick and the rest of the world that the uncompromised Rolling Stones 'feel' derives from his heart and hands. Both trusting their inner muse. The story of the Stones continues there, now in two seperate paths. None of Ronnie's have an inch of that creative ambition.

The result is, I think, that both Mick and Keith's albums are a way above in quality if compared to Ronnie's (especially the ones since the Twins went solo). Ron's stuff can be stylistically closest to classic Rolling Stones music, like an easy-listenable muzak, without one inch of authenticity, full of obvious, lazy choices. But neither Mick or Keith as solo artists wanted to give us easy-listening Stones muzak (sometimes within the Stones context they do that). Maybe the reason is that Ronnie sees the music of the Stones from the perspective of a fanboy (and probably that's why he seemingly manages to charm some die-hard Rolling Stones fans, fellow fan boys.) But Mick and Keith are different animals. They breathe The Rolling Stones no matter what they do. They don't need to mimic that music, they carry it with them no matter where they go. And sometimes they lead us to places that we might find uncomfortable, Mick to non-typical sounds and Keith to almost avantgarde. They surprise us, Ronnie never.

If I listen their solo tracks, I can not avoid noticing how much stronger song-writers both Mick and Keith individually are than Ronnie. Mick is a master of form and construction. His ability to carry/write melody and lyrics is in a class of its own. He sees the wholeness of a song, and never leaves anything unfinished. He could give us classes of song-writing. Keith is a master of depthness - his songs derive from pure inspiration without compromise. Nietzsche once said that 'what is not written with blood is not written at all'. That's Keith. Any sound he makes is meaningful. Ronnie has neither of these capacities - Mick's mind or Keith's heart - or any distinguished fortes of his own. His songs are lazy-written pastishes by nature. They could have written by almost anyone.

Ugh.

- Doxa



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-04 19:21 by Doxa.

You are wrong.

[www.youtube.com]

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loog droog
You are wrong.

[www.youtube.com]

A nice feel in an okayish song (and I guess NOW LOOK is the most cohesive one from Ronnie's solo albums). Ronnie should have given more room for Womack in vocals.

- Doxa

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Doxa

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LeonidP

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Doxa
Yeah. For me claiming Wood to belong to the rank of Jagger/Richards as a song writer is actually belittlening the actual greatness and uniqueness of Rolling Stones music, that is, the power of Jagger/Richards songs...

Pretty sure any comments in comparing were strictly regarding solo works - and that would be valid. No one can attempt to claim Wood can come close to Jagger/Richards in regards to classic Stones songs.

Fair enough. Let's talk that.



It is not valid. Ronnie had his solo moments during the 70's when Mick and Keith were still busy with the Stones. And both gave a helping hand, and some of their gold dust over his music. At best I'VE GOT MY OWN ALBUM TO DO had Stonesian moments, since the big boys were involved. "I Can Feel The Fire" and "The Sure One You Need" shines through (but neither considered good enough for a Stones use). But even having the mighty Stones involved might lead to terrible results, as a mess like GIMME SOME NECK shows. However, it contains the best individual Stones solo track ever next to "Meno From Turner", "Seven Days" (and I agree with one review at the time stating that it's the only actually composed song in the album, the others being just raw templates, although I give snall nod to "Buried Alive").

Ronnie released two other albums as well during the 70's/early 80's, pretty uneven ones, both lacking a purpose or a point - just showcases what a solo album can mean: aren't I supposed, being a big name enough, to do things like that, and the record company is kind enough to release them? Bil Wyman released a couple of these luxury items as well. The challenge for a listener in both cases (Ron & Bill) is to study how terrible the lead vocals can be in order to make the music unlistenable. Mick Taylor later joined the club of rather pointless solo albums (although he had something else the others did not: ambition) .

So the legacy of Ronnie's seventies solo albums is: totally forgettable, vanity projects. Think of the context: they were released at the time when 'classic rock' still ruled, everybody was young, and people were releasing weekly incredible albums. Why to waste time now to dig up these weak solo efforts?

But then the Big Boys went solo. They put their Rolling Stones energy, vision and heart into their solo projects. For us fans, and the whole world, was intersting to see what was Mick without Keith and vice versa. Interestingly, while neither was able to come up with anything comparable to their best joint efforts, and today all of their solo output is pretty forgettable (a die-hard fan item), the spirit of the Rolling Stones as creative artists could be heard there. All of their solo efforts are statements, having a point. Mick wanted to show the world that he can be a big solo artist in his own right, Keith to Mick and the rest of the world that the uncompromised Rolling Stones 'feel' derives from his heart and hands. Both trusting their inner muse. The story of the Stones continues there, now in two seperate paths. None of Ronnie's have an inch of that creative ambition.

The result is, I think, that both Mick and Keith's albums are a way above in quality if compared to Ronnie's (especially the ones since the Twins went solo). Ron's stuff can be stylistically closest to classic Rolling Stones music, like an easy-listenable muzak, without one inch of authenticity, full of obvious, lazy choices. But neither Mick or Keith as solo artists wanted to give us easy-listening Stones muzak (sometimes within the Stones context they do that). Maybe the reason is that Ronnie sees the music of the Stones from the perspective of a fanboy (and probably that's why he seemingly manages to charm some die-hard Rolling Stones fans, fellow fan boys.) But Mick and Keith are different animals. They breathe The Rolling Stones no matter what they do. They don't need to mimic that music, they carry it with them no matter where they go. And sometimes they lead us to places that we might find uncomfortable, Mick to non-typical sounds and Keith to almost avantgarde. They surprise us, Ronnie never.

If I listen their solo tracks, I can not avoid noticing how much stronger song-writers both Mick and Keith individually are than Ronnie. Mick is a master of form and construction. His ability to carry/write melody and lyrics is in a class of its own. He sees the wholeness of a song, and never leaves anything unfinished. He could give us classes of song-writing. Keith is a master of depthness - his songs derive from pure inspiration without compromise. Nietzsche once said that 'what is not written with blood is not written at all'. That's Keith. Any sound he makes is meaningful. Ronnie has neither of these capacities - Mick's mind or Keith's heart - or any distinguished fortes of his own. His songs are lazy-written pastishes by nature. They could have written by almost anyone.

Ugh.

- Doxa

Splendid post as far as I am concerned. One thing to add: I wonder if Mick Taylor's solo albums where made out of ambition, if that's the right word to describe his playing abilities, or he just tried to get more recognition as a solo artist. It might as well be the same though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-04 20:50 by TheflyingDutchman.

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Doxa

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LeonidP

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Doxa
.... Only a couple of hardcore Stones fans even know there even exist such a catalogue....
- Doxa

Yeah, Ronnie had no career before the Stones. And not sure how any other artist ever worked with him, including the likes of Clapton, Dylan, Stewart, Beck, McLagan, Harrison, Deep Purple, Townshend, Winwood, and countless others -- all BEFORE he was a Stone. Very odd for someone "w/ pretty mediocre stuff" and only capable of "An okay riff here or there."

That's not the point. Ronnie's a great, talented and charismatic musician, and a great a guy, and since no having ego problems, he's a great team player. No wonder anyone likes to have him around and play with him. But when it comes to his solo catalog, in where he is the boss, sings his own songs, and is making whole albums out of them, that's where the greatness disappears and mediocrity shows up. Wasn't his solo catalog we talk about here, right?

But anyway, that's just my opinion.

- Doxa

very well put, Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-10-04 23:02 by slewan.