Good points BowieStone, praising Keith should take nothing away from Micks considerable genius.

Don't get me wrong, i'm fully aware of Keith's limitations over the past 2 decades, Mick has kept this thing going when Keith was, lets face it at times embarrassing and not pulling his weight.

Hope Keith and Micks recent appreciative tactile and sympathetic relationship towards each other extends to finishing the new album.

And oh yeah, plenty on this board dislike Keith.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-07-31 15:10 by keefriffhards.

The mistakes - and brilliant moments - make the shows special.

At least they're not miming to a backing track.

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keefriffhards

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BowieStone
Jagger/Richards were responsible in taking the stones to their greatest heights.
So yeah, that point can definitely be argued.
Taylor was lucky to be around when Jagger/Richards were at their peak.

That's right actually, thanks for reminding me, seriously we all forget the main contributors when we get into these disagreements, yes the Glimmer Twins are the Stones, they have both created a body of work that's never been matched. I do however believe that songs like CYHMK, TWFNO, Moonlight Mile, Sway , Winter etc would not have been so great without Taylor's influence.
Can't really say Ronnie's influence compares to those album tracks unless you think Hey Negrita is better than CYHMK etc.

And if we look even deeper than that, if we are going to talk about their peak, i would suggest Keith is the major contributor to the music, as Keith said, without the music what do we have ?, just words on bits of paper, wahaha no song !! Jagger was lucky to be around Richards

Add to that we find out from Mick's interview recently that Keith wrote the music for their best ballads ( something you guys have known for decades ) Keith wrote Angie, Wild Horses, Ruby Tuesday, Beast Of Burden. This is why it's so hard for me to understand how many people on iorr appear to dislike Keith, i mean come on Keith is the man, if you don't like Keith @#$%& off.

Looks like you're beginning to talk yourself into your famous infantile rants again that usually end with going underground for some time and then reappearing with a new screen name...

I certainly do not dislike Keith.

I appreciate Ronnie, the man, his good mood and his apparent simplicity. I don't like his inconstant and irregular playing (when you clown around and raise your arm every 30 seconds, it takes away from the rhythm and the density of the song, which Mick Taylor NEVER did) and I remain polite about his solos which often lead to nothing.

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie

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keefriffhards


And oh yeah, plenty on this board dislike Keith.

Yeah, isn't it hard to be the world biggest and most sensitive Keith Richards fanboy. On the site everybody loving that bloody lucky bitch Brenda and praising him all the time. It is so wrong.

- Doxa

Like every word!

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powerage78
I certainly do not dislike Keith.

I appreciate Ronnie, the man, his good mood and his apparent simplicity. I don't like his inconstant and irregular playing (when you clown around and raise your arm every 30 seconds, it takes away from the rhythm and the density of the song, which Mick Taylor NEVER did) and I remain polite about his solos which often lead to nothing.

it must really suck to follow a band that gives so little credence to a former member of the band known more for pouting and whining than a couple of interesting guitar flourishes....time I reckon (after almost 40 years) to move on?.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-07-31 17:38 by Rip This.

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Doxa

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keefriffhards


And oh yeah, plenty on this board dislike Keith.

Yeah, isn't it hard to be the world biggest and most sensitive Keith Richards fanboy. On the site everybody loving that bloody lucky bitch Brenda and praising him all the time. It is so wrong.

- Doxa

Chill out Doxa you know you have admitted yourself you don't like Keith, well you loved him and he let you down in some way, you guys are cool, just be honest though, if you don't like Keith admit it instead of having a go at me because he's always been my hero, i mean even to this day he keeps coming back, that's commendable , i think he took a long time to fully conquer he's demons but better late than never, believe it or not Doxa i happen to like you and your posts, i'm not that sensitive mate.

Keith was bad, Keith was great! Ronnie was bad, Ronnie was great! Mick was bad, Mick was great!
Posted by: vibrolux ()
Date: July 29, 2022 18:24

I originally posted some of this late in the Amsterdam show thread, but for those who didn't see it:

"Keith made some terrible mistakes tonight."
"Ronnie was off tonight."
"Mick just wasn't himself tonight."

Sound familiar?

OK... For all those pointing out all the mistakes and miscues. A few points...

Keith and Ronnie are well past their prime. I know it. You know it. And they know it. Ronnie isn't Mick Taylor and he isn't even Ronnie in his prime. Keith's mess ups are right there for all to see. They both play very prominent parts so their mistakes are not going to get covered up very well. Jagger has also lost a step or two from his prime. And some nights, one of them might not be at their best, even by 2022 standards.

So have they "jumped the shark?" I really don't think so. The three main guys are smart enough to surround themselves with top notch backing musicians and the best back line team in the business. Put it all together and it's still a hell of a show.

If you're comparing the 2022 shows to shows from decades ago, you're sure to be disappointed. These guys are in their late 70s. What do you expect?

My sister is not a huge fan of the band. I took her to one of the U.S. shows last year. She was blown away. And she doesn't drink the Kool-Aid like most of us here.

The moral of the story is this: If you're looking for things to criticize with Keith, Ronnie, Sasha or anyone on stage, you'll find something to point out and you'll be right. But I'll take the total of 2 minutes of mess ups to get the remaining 2 hours of magic.

As they show more and more rust, do I hope they wrap it up after 60 years? Nope. And if they decide to do one of those "residencies" where they set up shop in one place and play a bunch of shows in a smaller venue, I'll be first in line for tickets. (OK, maybe second in line. Bjounulf will probably beat me to the front of the line.)

Like eyery single word!

The mistakes are fantastic. Some are brilliant, like She's So Cold from 1982, rift?, others are just eye wideners, like Street Fighting Man from the August VOODOO show that's on the boot SPARKS WILL FLY or Keith's two times! Start Me Up opening riff at Hyde Park.

Wrong key for intros, wrong song for a song.


Ronnie, though - his playing during the 1989-90 tours was possibly his best. Since then he's been butchering things more and more, with exception to Tumbling Dice and Dead Flowers and various slide parts.

He can't play the solo for Start Me Up at all anymore. It used to be so fluid and melodic. CYHMK has always been a mess. It's as if he's unlearned the guitar. Yet he still plays riffs and licks and chimes just as great as ever.

and here Charlie was so great!

we miss you Charlie!

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retired_dog

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keefriffhards

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BowieStone
Jagger/Richards were responsible in taking the stones to their greatest heights.
So yeah, that point can definitely be argued.
Taylor was lucky to be around when Jagger/Richards were at their peak.

That's right actually, thanks for reminding me, seriously we all forget the main contributors when we get into these disagreements, yes the Glimmer Twins are the Stones, they have both created a body of work that's never been matched. I do however believe that songs like CYHMK, TWFNO, Moonlight Mile, Sway , Winter etc would not have been so great without Taylor's influence.
Can't really say Ronnie's influence compares to those album tracks unless you think Hey Negrita is better than CYHMK etc.

And if we look even deeper than that, if we are going to talk about their peak, i would suggest Keith is the major contributor to the music, as Keith said, without the music what do we have ?, just words on bits of paper, wahaha no song !! Jagger was lucky to be around Richards

Add to that we find out from Mick's interview recently that Keith wrote the music for their best ballads ( something you guys have known for decades ) Keith wrote Angie, Wild Horses, Ruby Tuesday, Beast Of Burden. This is why it's so hard for me to understand how many people on iorr appear to dislike Keith, i mean come on Keith is the man, if you don't like Keith @#$%& off.

Looks like you're beginning to talk yourself into your famous infantile rants again that usually end with going underground for some time and then reappearing with a new screen name...

Why on earth would i go underground, what have i said that would cause that, no need to call your mates to gang up, who is being infantile my old friend ?

I'm going to enjoy my Sunday roast with my family now, you have a nice day too i hope.

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caschimann
One of the best posts here since many years.
(Wanted to write this point for long. Now you did it simply great.)

Thank you.

I remember being at a show a few years ago. I knew the next song was Brown Sugar. The lyrics may not be 2022-worthy, but it's a near perfect rock and roll tune. Out comes Keith to start it and he totally muffs the intro. I was really disappointed. That was my moment to realize that in spite of it all, I still love going to see these guys. I love the music. I love what the band has meant to me for 50+ years. (Damn, I must be old, but I'm still 10 years younger than these guys.)

The bashers can bash. As I said, they'll be right. But to me it's about the joy, the singalong in the pit, and yes... the nostalgia. All of it. So yes, they can play in my backyard any time they want!

It just blows my mind that they are even still around and on the road kicking ass.

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spsimmons
It just blows my mind that they are even still around and on the road kicking ass.

Yeah, from the sandpit as children to filling out stadiums at nearly 80 years old and all the addictions and fallout's in between, if it were a fictional story people would say you are going too far, it's beyond belief, but there they are , still kicking ass as you say all these years later

Keith has simplified his playing these days to the point of taking the easiest path where there are fewer hurdles to leap over.
Where he used to take risks, now it's as basic and easy as ABC or paint by nuumbers; his solos on Sympathy (or lack thereof) make that clear.
His playing used to be much more thrilling and exciting to hear and watch - the good, the bad, and the ugly...on the edge...warts and all.
But his mistakes began to outnumber the positives, and flailing his arms about while kicking imaginary objects mid-riff/mid-solo never helped matters..
So now it's simply a steady good...average at best...standard Keith...no risks...coasting...nothing edgy...nothing jaw-dropping...not too bad, but not too great either...
Still some classic moments here and there, but for the most part he's coasting and seems to be taking the path of least resistance.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

What Einsteins here. Is it some kind of self-therapy or what is the point of stating the obvious? That almost 80 years old Keith is not the young gun he once was.

But Keith is going to hit the stage in a few minutes and tens of thousands are thrilled by his electrifying presence and efficient guitar playing. Once again.

- Doxa

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rollingloc
and here Charlie was so great!

we miss you Charlie!

No question they were SO much better with Charlie on drums.
It's still nice and fun these days to hear and watch Mick, along with Keith's occasional greatness, but without Charlie the Stones have lost that unique Stonesy punch.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Doxa
What Einsteins here. Is it some kind of self-therapy or what is the point of stating the obvious? That almost 80 years old Keith is not the young gun he once was.

But Keith is going to hit the stage in a few minutes and tens of thousands are thrilled by his electrifying presence and efficient guitar playing. Once again.

- Doxa

Ain't that the truth, nice post Doxa

The Stones I heard in 1978 were simply fantastic! The Louisiana Superdome rocked like hell the night of July 13, 1978.

As a long time Rolling Stones fan who has been extremely fortunate to catch this band since the 1970's, you can't expect these guys to be as vital as they were in their prime. That ship has sailed. However, for what the three principals are able to deliver being near 80 years old, that is quite extraordinary (IMHO- I do have to add that if the extra support players they have utilized since 1989 were absent, I would suspect that fans and critics might be a little harsher in their assessments of the Stones live concerts-just saying...)

I always get a bit of vicarious embarrassment when I hear Ronnie or Keith (or some promotor) say that the Stones are 'sounding better than ever'.

With all the horns, keyboards and backing vocals it sounds okayish nowadays, but when just you put just the five of them on a stage for like 1.5 hours I think you think otherwise.

Sure, given their age and their past, it's quite the achievement that they're still touring, but when you have to pay €150 for a general admission ticket, you have every right to be critical.

Not to mention all the complacent media, who only talk about myth and longevity. The reviews are always very generalized, in which little is said about the musical performance... All this doesn't help to question oneself and one's real playing level. Not to mention the bubble in which the Stones live (you are the best, best show ever blah blah blah).

I would like to know the last time a journalist asked Keith, Ronnie and even Mick "what do you think of the level of your current stage performance"? Calling all archivists.

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie

I find Ronnie's performances this year disappointing, i also find it fascinating that others really enjoy Ronnie's new approach to playing and soloing.
There have been previous other tours where if Keith had a particularly bad night new threads would pop up for a discussion about his performances. Would be interesting to get some kind of clarity or perspective on Ronnie's playing, i must admit i'm a lousy guitar player so i'm not qualified to understand what Ronnie is doing, some call it art, some say he's playing great, some of us are not so sure about any of that. I just want to understand how my truth to my ears is so different to others.

I don't understand enough about technique to comment on that aspect but we all know Ronnie has gone through a lot of health issues. At the very least he has a post operative reduced lung capacity, which will affect stamina but he has also suffered an aggressive form of cancer with a very poor statistical chance of long-term recovery. He is a recovering alcoholic and drug addict. He has suffered at least two close bereavements in the past couple of years. It's a miracle the man is standing, let alone playing. I wish him well.

For Ronnie, flamboyance and inspiration rhyme with the past. He brings nothing to the songs.

I totally sympathize with his health problems but he judges (and only him putely can) that he is capable of performing on stage to offer the best.

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-08-01 16:23 by powerage78.

Leave the man alone, he had two chemos and probably still isn't back in the shape he was before. I'm sure he's giving his best every night (as all of them do), and nothing he plays is bad enough to mess up a show.

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keefriffhards
I find Ronnie's performances this year disappointing, i also find it fascinating that others really enjoy Ronnie's new approach to playing and soloing.

[iorr.org]

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StonedRambler
Leave the man alone, he had two chemos and probably still isn't back in the shape he was before. I'm sure he's giving his best every night (as all of them do), and nothing he plays is bad enough to mess up a show.

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keefriffhards
I find Ronnie's performances this year disappointing, i also find it fascinating that others really enjoy Ronnie's new approach to playing and soloing.
There have been previous other tours where if Keith had a particularly bad night new threads would pop up for a discussion about his performances. Would be interesting to get some kind of clarity or perspective on Ronnie's playing, i must admit i'm a lousy guitar player so i'm not qualified to understand what Ronnie is doing, some call it art, some say he's playing great, some of us are not so sure about any of that. I just want to understand how my truth to my ears is so different to others.

His B-Bender should be banned that would solve al my probelems
with Ronnie's solos these days.