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ProfessorWolf
i think part of the issue your running into about your point with mick is the use of the word struggle

now i don't know if this is your intent or not but when i hear someone is struggling in the context of what mick does onstage i think seriously having trouble breathing, moving and singing

and from my point of view he's no where near that level of impairment onstage

now admittedly he has had some issues in lyon and he's been less animated and active onstage since then

and he may have some lingering issues from his bout with covid

hovever from my perspective these recent issues are not related to him struggling or pushing himself beyond his limits

but it's him knowing his limits and after nearly losing his voice in lyon and very likely losing it when he was ill

he simply knows his limits at any given time and is restraining himself and not exerting to much effort in his singing or physical movements

this is not struggling quite the the opposite he's being cautious for the last couple shows to make sure he won't end up struggling at the end

also yes he's slowed down physically since his mid 70's just look at a performance of midnight rambler from 2015 and then in 2022

that's to be expected he's only human and he's still performing at a physical level well beyond what a man his age is expected to or frankly should be able to

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keefriffhards

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ProfessorWolf
i think part of the issue your running into about your point with mick is the use of the word struggle

now i don't know if this is your intent or not but when i hear someone is struggling in the context of what mick does onstage i think seriously having trouble breathing, moving and singing

and from my point of view he's no where near that level of impairment onstage

now admittedly he has had some issues in lyon and he's been less animated and active onstage since then

and he may have some lingering issues from his bout with covid

hovever from my perspective these recent issues are not related to him struggling or pushing himself beyond his limits

but it's him knowing his limits and after nearly losing his voice in lyon and very likely losing it when he was ill

he simply knows his limits at any given time and is restraining himself and not exerting to much effort in his singing or physical movements

this is not struggling quite the the opposite he's being cautious for the last couple shows to make sure he won't end up struggling at the end

also yes he's slowed down physically since his mid 70's just look at a performance of midnight rambler from 2015 and then in 2022

that's to be expected he's only human and he's still performing at a physical level well beyond what a man his age is expected to or frankly should be able to

So you don't think i can use the word struggle when it comes to Micks voice for instance, we keep seeing him hardly singing and leaving it to backing singers, we see him request to skip songs or end them quicker. Don't get me wrong Mick is phenomenal for his age, no one comes close physically but i get the impression he's forcing himself to complete these shows where as Keith really is in every moment enjoying the whole experience, honestly i think Mick will call time on this now, i will be very surprised if we see the Stones tour again, Mick will stop while he's just about on top, he certainly isn't on top of his game towards the end of this tour.
Countless people have seen a dip in Micks performance this year, people have said he appears out of breath, he's lost a step or two, these are not my words, you have to admit he has slowed down since last year, watch him on Rambler he's just walking slowly, he was storming the hell out of it last year in comparison, i'm not being intimidated, i stick to what i say, Micks struggling to continue this sort of stadium show and i will bet he doesn't do a stadium tour again, so go and see them people because this is probably the last time they play to the masses, enjoy the last two shows and i hope mick regains his second wind.

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ProfessorWolf

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keefriffhards

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ProfessorWolf
i think part of the issue your running into about your point with mick is the use of the word struggle

now i don't know if this is your intent or not but when i hear someone is struggling in the context of what mick does onstage i think seriously having trouble breathing, moving and singing

and from my point of view he's no where near that level of impairment onstage

now admittedly he has had some issues in lyon and he's been less animated and active onstage since then

and he may have some lingering issues from his bout with covid

hovever from my perspective these recent issues are not related to him struggling or pushing himself beyond his limits

but it's him knowing his limits and after nearly losing his voice in lyon and very likely losing it when he was ill

he simply knows his limits at any given time and is restraining himself and not exerting to much effort in his singing or physical movements

this is not struggling quite the the opposite he's being cautious for the last couple shows to make sure he won't end up struggling at the end

also yes he's slowed down physically since his mid 70's just look at a performance of midnight rambler from 2015 and then in 2022

that's to be expected he's only human and he's still performing at a physical level well beyond what a man his age is expected to or frankly should be able to

So you don't think i can use the word struggle when it comes to Micks voice for instance, we keep seeing him hardly singing and leaving it to backing singers, we see him request to skip songs or end them quicker. Don't get me wrong Mick is phenomenal for his age, no one comes close physically but i get the impression he's forcing himself to complete these shows where as Keith really is in every moment enjoying the whole experience, honestly i think Mick will call time on this now, i will be very surprised if we see the Stones tour again, Mick will stop while he's just about on top, he certainly isn't on top of his game towards the end of this tour.
Countless people have seen a dip in Micks performance this year, people have said he appears out of breath, he's lost a step or two, these are not my words, you have to admit he has slowed down since last year, watch him on Rambler he's just walking slowly, he was storming the hell out of it last year in comparison, i'm not being intimidated, i stick to what i say, Micks struggling to continue this sort of stadium show and i will bet he doesn't do a stadium tour again, so go and see them people because this is probably the last time they play to the masses, enjoy the last two shows and i hope mick regains his second wind.

in lyon yes struggle may have applied a bit at the end

but what i've seen since points to him being paranoid about losing his voice and being cautious

and perhaps feeling his age a bit more so he's moving and dancing less onstage

i'm not convinced he's in some kind of crisis

but maybe your seeing something in mick the rest of us aren't

in which case you'll have some rightfully earned bragging rights in the future

well have to see

i expect them to be back on the road sometime after the holidays next year unless they say otherwise

and i promise you might intent is not to intimidate you at all

if i've come off like that i wholeheartedly apologize

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keefriffhards

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ProfessorWolf

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keefriffhards

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ProfessorWolf
i think part of the issue your running into about your point with mick is the use of the word struggle

now i don't know if this is your intent or not but when i hear someone is struggling in the context of what mick does onstage i think seriously having trouble breathing, moving and singing

and from my point of view he's no where near that level of impairment onstage

now admittedly he has had some issues in lyon and he's been less animated and active onstage since then

and he may have some lingering issues from his bout with covid

hovever from my perspective these recent issues are not related to him struggling or pushing himself beyond his limits

but it's him knowing his limits and after nearly losing his voice in lyon and very likely losing it when he was ill

he simply knows his limits at any given time and is restraining himself and not exerting to much effort in his singing or physical movements

this is not struggling quite the the opposite he's being cautious for the last couple shows to make sure he won't end up struggling at the end

also yes he's slowed down physically since his mid 70's just look at a performance of midnight rambler from 2015 and then in 2022

that's to be expected he's only human and he's still performing at a physical level well beyond what a man his age is expected to or frankly should be able to

So you don't think i can use the word struggle when it comes to Micks voice for instance, we keep seeing him hardly singing and leaving it to backing singers, we see him request to skip songs or end them quicker. Don't get me wrong Mick is phenomenal for his age, no one comes close physically but i get the impression he's forcing himself to complete these shows where as Keith really is in every moment enjoying the whole experience, honestly i think Mick will call time on this now, i will be very surprised if we see the Stones tour again, Mick will stop while he's just about on top, he certainly isn't on top of his game towards the end of this tour.
Countless people have seen a dip in Micks performance this year, people have said he appears out of breath, he's lost a step or two, these are not my words, you have to admit he has slowed down since last year, watch him on Rambler he's just walking slowly, he was storming the hell out of it last year in comparison, i'm not being intimidated, i stick to what i say, Micks struggling to continue this sort of stadium show and i will bet he doesn't do a stadium tour again, so go and see them people because this is probably the last time they play to the masses, enjoy the last two shows and i hope mick regains his second wind.

in lyon yes struggle may have applied a bit at the end

but what i've seen since points to him being paranoid about losing his voice and being cautious

and perhaps feeling his age a bit more so he's moving and dancing less onstage

i'm not convinced he's in some kind of crisis

but maybe your seeing something in mick the rest of us aren't

in which case you'll have some rightfully earned bragging rights in the future

well have to see

i expect them to be back on the road sometime after the holidays next year unless they say otherwise

and i promise you might intent is not to intimidate you at all

if i've come off like that i wholeheartedly apologize

No you are not intimidating mate, far from it, but others chime in and gang up if Mick is mentioned in any other context other than he's perfect all the time.
People pay to see a full show, not an edited version because Micks not sure of his voice, Keith looked surprised to have GS cut completely the other day and then cut short in Germany.
I think Mick is an all or nothing man, and he will probably know himself it's like when the boxer goes to the well and it runs dry, he never knows which fight it will happen as he ages. Well Micks had a few warnings and i think he will call it a day if he thinks he can't give anything other than !00%. As you said yourself you think he's paranoid about loosing his voice, is that really enjoying himself onstage.

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Nikkei
again not looking to offend but you have to counter my impression that you're continually writing about one of them falling off the wagon and if it isn't one it's got to be the other

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keefriffhards
Micks struggling to continue this sort of stadium show and i will bet he doesn't do a stadium tour again, so go and see them people because this is probably the last time they play to the masses

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keefriffhards

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Nikkei
again not looking to offend but you have to counter my impression that you're continually writing about one of them falling off the wagon and if it isn't one it's got to be the other

Not meaning to offend but you and others were saying Keith had dementia last year and long before that. Now can you see it wasn't that.

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Nikkei

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keefriffhards

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Nikkei
again not looking to offend but you have to counter my impression that you're continually writing about one of them falling off the wagon and if it isn't one it's got to be the other

Not meaning to offend but you and others were saying Keith had dementia last year and long before that. Now can you see it wasn't that.

I have never said that Keith or anyone in the band suffered from dementia. You don't get off the hook with me that easily just because I happened to say something critical before that I'm sure had to have been something else.

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keefriffhards

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Nikkei

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keefriffhards

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Nikkei
again not looking to offend but you have to counter my impression that you're continually writing about one of them falling off the wagon and if it isn't one it's got to be the other

Not meaning to offend but you and others were saying Keith had dementia last year and long before that. Now can you see it wasn't that.

I have never said that Keith or anyone in the band suffered from dementia. You don't get off the hook with me that easily just because I happened to say something critical before that I'm sure had to have been something else.

Yes you did Pal, you was saying Keith's problems were not drink or weed, you said he was showing early stages of senility
You remarked his beanie hat was filthy and made a big deal about it saying someone should not have let him go on stage like that as if he wasn't in a mental state himself to know.
You know i'm telling the truth, lots of posters here have been saying it for years that Keith was suffering from dementia and connective issues. Don't think you can wriggle out of this one Nikkei.

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Nikkei

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keefriffhards

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Nikkei

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keefriffhards

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Nikkei
again not looking to offend but you have to counter my impression that you're continually writing about one of them falling off the wagon and if it isn't one it's got to be the other

Not meaning to offend but you and others were saying Keith had dementia last year and long before that. Now can you see it wasn't that.

I have never said that Keith or anyone in the band suffered from dementia. You don't get off the hook with me that easily just because I happened to say something critical before that I'm sure had to have been something else.

Yes you did Pal, you was saying Keith's problems were not drink or weed, you said he was showing early stages of senility
You remarked his beanie hat was filthy and made a big deal about it saying someone should not have let him go on stage like that as if he wasn't in a mental state himself to know.
You know i'm telling the truth, lots of posters here have been saying it for years that Keith was suffering from dementia and connective issues. Don't think you can wriggle out of this one Nikkei.

Yes the thing about the beanie this one time puzzles me to this day but I don't see that as a medical condition. Just wondered how that could possibly happen when he clearly has four or five of them

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Nikkei
You know what I worried about there was mostly their staff. Same as in Hamburg 2017. I'd like to think there's not an intimidated atmosphere backstage

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keefriffhards

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Nikkei
You know what I worried about there was mostly their staff. Same as in Hamburg 2017. I'd like to think there's not an intimidated atmosphere backstage

Can you elaborate please Nikkei.

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PaintMonkeyManBlack
Hope your alright Nikkei cause from what I am reading I am worried about you.

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Lady Jayne
Some of this debate is ridiculous. I was at the UK shows and Mick was in good voice, very energetic and looked as if he was enjoying himself. Since then he's had Covid and I am astonished, given the extreme weather conditions at the time of the Lyons show, that they could perform at all. But to say he can't cope with the workload of a tour on the basis of cutting a song from the set list and some voice adjustments at a couple of shows is bizarre. Mick is and always has been the most professional of the Stones, and, frankly, much as I love Keith and Ronnie, it is Mick that keeps this show on the road and has done for decades. He's in his eightieth year - anything could happen and it can't go on forever, but instead of seeing doom and gloom with every missed note or set list gripe, I wish we could forgo the dismal predictions and enjoy them for what they are.

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Nikkei
Yeah but you could also make the case that doing the windmill is unprofessional guitar playing.

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keefriffhards

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Lady Jayne
Some of this debate is ridiculous. I was at the UK shows and Mick was in good voice, very energetic and looked as if he was enjoying himself. Since then he's had Covid and I am astonished, given the extreme weather conditions at the time of the Lyons show, that they could perform at all. But to say he can't cope with the workload of a tour on the basis of cutting a song from the set list and some voice adjustments at a couple of shows is bizarre. Mick is and always has been the most professional of the Stones, and, frankly, much as I love Keith and Ronnie, it is Mick that keeps this show on the road and has done for decades. He's in his eightieth year - anything could happen and it can't go on forever, but instead of seeing doom and gloom with every missed note or set list gripe, I wish we could forgo the dismal predictions and enjoy them for what they are.

Well you are saying Mick is above criticism, we wouldn't have anything to say if we just said well they are old so we can't say anything other than praise upon praise. This place would drop off with virtually no posters if that were the case, we are passionate about all aspects of this band and the Stones are still in the game, still charging top dollar.

Most of us discussing are full on Stones nerds, we pick up on everything, if i was going to talk about professionalism and the limits that you can go to and giving it all for your paying customers it's worthy of a mention my experience with The Who, i've seen them a bunch of times. One time Pete did his windmill and put the tremolo bar through his right hand and he ran off stage not to return and the band played the last few songs without him.

Another time Roger lost his voice at Wembley and walked off stage not to return with a few songs left to sing and Pete took to the mic stand and sang them for him instead.

That was amazing i thought, i couldn't believe my eyes, it was an instant decision and they finished the gigs. Just saying that you don't necessarily have to drop songs when you don't feel 100%.