Meise Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I basically agree with Jack-Flash. I thought this
> board is for Stones FANS not Stones critics.

is there some kind of board rule that says you cant be both?


It's
> okay to critisize


if its okay to criticize, then why do you have such a problem with someone doing so? Youve just contradicted yourself...



but, come on, some threads seem
> like being posted by Stones HATERS.

Nonsense. I'll put my credentials as a bonafide Stones fan up against yours or anyone's anytime. As can most people here who happen to have a negative opinion on a few issues. People arent sheep. They're entitled to have an opinion on whether the band are delivering, especially considering their reputation and the prices theyre charging


> No one here is always right, everybody has his/her
> own opinion, and that's okay.

as it should be

But this constant
> whining about the bad bad set list makes me sick.


its a lot more deep rooted than that. The fact that its never been this widespread before speaks volumes.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-11-24 21:13 by Gazza.

Here's a small compilation of johang's input on various shows.
After reading this I guess it's pretty obvious that the Stones are not the only ones who should be blamed for lacking the proper creativity.
Best wishes.

johang Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Set list shows any fan would be deeply
> dissapointent.

johang Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> what a joke.


johang Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They have a weeks rest to get their shit together,
> one can only hope.

johang Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stones suck for anything creative. Why be
> suprised?

johang Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The set list sucks, new dvd and coming Cd sucks
> whats your problem?

johang Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, Sway is there but where is the others? Still
> a boring set list.

johang Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They can do it and I just dont get it they just
> lack confindence. Shame isnt it?

johang Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
The sad fact is the set list is boring and short and you know they could try
harder.

johang Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
freaking joke they suck big time.
I can go on, but the fact is Stones live for the last many years is no good. They have a dozen + songs they could have replaced Miss You and Tumbling Dice etc with, but no all @#$%& boring.

@ Gazza: It's okay to criticize, that's a fact. But it's getting too much. We've talked about a hundred times about how boring the setlists are. And you're right a stones fan can also be a stones critic from time to time - as I am myself.

Still everyone should have his own opinion, and like you said it's good that it is this way. It would be boring if everyone had the same opinion.

I just wanted to show that it's not possible for the stones to fulfill everyones wishes. They always have to disappoint some people. But some people really don't know what they really want and always complain about everything.

@ johang: I just picked any show out of the tour. I picked Atlanta but I'm sure you can pick any other as well.

For me they didn't play 90% warhorses!

Start me up, Tumbling dice, Miss you, Honky Tonk, Paint it black, Sympathy, JJF, Sugar, Satisfaction are for me real warhorses. That makes it 9 - that is less than 50%!
That night they played 4 new ones (Rough justice, rain fall down, Infamy, Oh no) that's a little less than 20%.
1 cover Mr. Pitiful
Get off and you can't can be counted as hits but not as warhorses in my opinion.
and the rest aren't even hits. got me rocking, live with me, wild horses, bitch, worst. some of these might have been played a little too often, but everybody needs needs to decide on this hisself.

So you see, they played many hits, but surely not 90%

Best regards

Philipp

Jack-flash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> @ > I just wanted to show that it's not possible for
> the stones to fulfill everyones wishes.

true enough. all that matters, though, is for them to fulfill mine. they can do that, but they haven't. screw 'em.

haha, my god what a bunch of @#$%& here. Of course my remark was intended to stir it up a bit. What the @#$%& do you think? I was having a bottle of whine while listening to Afternath UK very loud on the headphones. The record just grabbed me by the balls, especially because of a young and snarly Jagger and the fantastic Bill Wyman. I then realised again how pathetic the Stones are now -charging the prices they do for 20 songs they've been doing for the last 65 yeras while playing like shit. With Daryl Jones they have become a Stones tribute band, and a really bad one at that too.

I was just having fun.

Mathijs

But of course Mathijs. But what are you doing here when you should be playing your guitar young man, hmmmmmmm?

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was having a bottle of
> whine while listening to Afternath UK
-------------------------------------------------------

Afternath ???
WOW, I wish I had that album

-------------------
Keep On Rolling

O, you're SO funny! Afternath! Haha! How do you do that? Can you teach me? I want to be as funny as you!

Mathijs

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
I was having a bottle of
> whine while listening to Afternath UK very loud on
> the headphones.

Perhaps that was too much "whine"




Belgrade-Bucharest-Budapest-Brno

bruno wrote:

>I'm somewhat amazed at people getting against Mathijs because of his post



are u out of your everlovin' mind??

Aftermath and Between the Buttons are just fantastic even when I am 100% sober. I just love them any time any day always. Not as deep and complete and complex as Sticky Fingers and Exile but that is why I love them so much.

Back to the subject... I think our relation to the Stones is like an old married couple. They tend to argue and complain and tease each others at times and they have no worries about insulting each others because they know they are still together not just because habit but also due to real love. So you can allow yourselves to make some complaints and critics. While a couple on a rather new date is 100% in heaven, everything pink and nice, no complaints, no worries, don't even think about mentioning anything that might upset the partner or being negative.

Then there are a few Garth Brooks and Paul McCartney fans dressed up as Stones fans here too of course. Just like a wolf dressed up as a chicken in a chickenfarm they hang around here, where they like it a lot, and tell us all how frustrating it is to have 38 songs in a set list at the Fargo Dome or Sacramento. I would much rather have a set list of 18 songs including Street Fighting Man and Gimme Shelter. But who am I to complain?

Bjornulf

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> haha, my god what a bunch of @#$%& here. Of course
> my remark was intended to stir it up a bit. What
> the @#$%& do you think? I was having a bottle of
> whine while listening to Afternath UK very loud on
> the headphones. The record just grabbed me by the
> balls, especially because of a young and snarly
> Jagger and the fantastic Bill Wyman. I then
> realised again how pathetic the Stones are now
> -charging the prices they do for 20 songs they've
> been doing for the last 65 yeras while playing
> like shit. With Daryl Jones they have become a
> Stones tribute band, and a really bad one at that
> too.


Burned out did ya'? Burned all out? The Stones are the Stones and you can't deal with that it seems. The worst part is that you're more hung up in the sixties and seventies than Mr. Lawyer (From Shidoobee), and that's not a good thing. You wanna stand out as a "know-it-all" it seems. Well, all you look like to me is a friggin' whiner that can play Start Me Up so it sounds like a ringtone.

JumpingKentFlash

Yep, I am a whiner. Absolutely. No way I can deny that. I just can't stand the fact that the band that I love so deeply, that has become a big part of me, has become the worst band in the world. It just hurts to see that. What makes my problem even bigger is that they're not only the worst band in the world, they have also become the worst band to the fans in the world. There is no band that treats its fans so badly as the Stones. It wouldn't be such a problem to me if the live shows weren't my cup of tea anymore if they treated their fans a bit better. If I can buy "Stones Anthology 1, 2 and 3", I sit back on my couch, enjoy the outtakes and think "man, they still play live". Now, they slowly start to spoil listening to even their best records. They have become a band wich erases one of the original members of sleeves. They release a rarities with absolutely nothing interesting. They release the new album a second time with two medciocre outtakes. If I listen to the current tour, I hear one of the worst live bands ever.

If they would have quite when Wyman left we all could have gone on and on how they were the best band ever, and how we hope they would ever play live again. NOw, we see the decline of what once was the greatest band in the world, and that just hurts.

Mathijs

My God, cool down Kent, Mathijs was only fooling around, can't you see that?
It's clear you still like The Stones anno 2005 and that's great, but the points Mathijs makes about the shows, how they treat the fans and releasing useless compilations are clear. Sure, it's not the sixties and the seventies anymore, but what's wrong with saying that they are not as good as they used to be anymore?

There are people who get annoyed about negative posts, but there are also a lot of people who get annoyed about those always positive posts, no matter what The Stones do. The negative posts usually get aggressive response (calling names e.o.), the always positive posts usually get ironic response.

Sorry for my "twisted" English, hope you know what I mean

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yep, I am a whiner. Absolutely. No way I can deny
> that. I just can't stand the fact that the band
> that I love so deeply, that has become a big part
> of me, has become the worst band in the world. It
> just hurts to see that. What makes my problem even
> bigger is that they're not only the worst band in
> the world, they have also become the worst band to
> the fans in the world. There is no band that
> treats its fans so badly as the Stones. It
> wouldn't be such a problem to me if the live shows
> weren't my cup of tea anymore if they treated
> their fans a bit better. If I can buy "Stones
> Anthology 1, 2 and 3", I sit back on my couch,
> enjoy the outtakes and think "man, they still play
> live". Now, they slowly start to spoil listening
> to even their best records. They have become a
> band wich erases one of the original members of
> sleeves. They release a rarities with absolutely
> nothing interesting. They release the new album a
> second time with two medciocre outtakes. If I
> listen to the current tour, I hear one of the
> worst live bands ever.
>
> If they would have quite when Wyman left we all
> could have gone on and on how they were the best
> band ever, and how we hope they would ever play
> live again. NOw, we see the decline of what once
> was the greatest band in the world, and that just
> hurts.
>
> Mathijs

People, stop bashing Mathijs. He mentions many points which have some truth in them. The only thing I wholeheartedly disagree is that the two new outtakes are mediocre. I love We Don't Wanna Go Home and Under The Radar more than some tracks which are on the original ABB album. Otherwise, Mathijs is not too impressed by the Stones spectacle nowadays, he closes his eyes and listens to the music as they perform it. And that can be a painful experience nowadays.

Rene: I hope you see that I was pretty tongue-in-cheek. Or at least intended to be. Not out to bash The Mathmatician, but I don't agree with him at all. And you can't say that the Stopnes are the worst live band ever 'cause that prize goes to that little Dutch band Flip The Switch.

JumpingKentFlash



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-11-25 17:42 by JumpingKentFlash.

mathijis sucks, stones suck ! Get on with life !!!!

Disgusted Esky

Esky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mathijis sucks, stones suck ! Get on with life
> !!!!
>
> Disgusted Esky


Hey Ferrante. Nice to see ya' back.

JumpingKentFlash

A Stones-fan that´s not satisfied with UTR will never be pleased. Ever.

I know that it has been pointed out before, but:

There is a group of us who feel that it is exactly because the Stones DON'T suck live and that the have made an imperfect--but arresting--album that the tour is so disappointing.

It would be easier to let go (or to treat them as beloved history) if they were in outright decline. I don't believe that they are. The frustration of the current Stones is that they are still within reach of greatness and yet settle for the most hollow big bucks entertainment spectacle.

They still have so much to give; my God, listen to what a great blues and R&B band they are now. They simply need to be willing to adapt the format and the presentation...

Rev. Robert W. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The frustration of
> the current Stones is that they are still within
> reach of greatness and yet settle for the most
> hollow big bucks entertainment spectacle.

Totally agree. And that's why they more often than not lack real inspiration and enthusiasm when they perform live. Yesterday, I listened to Midnight Rambler from the first Hollywood Bowl show, just listen - while the start is ok, as the song progresses, both guitar players seem to get lost in the middle of nowhere...and sound bored and totally uninspired. Like a xerox copy of a great original photograph - still recognizable, all the ingredients still there, but it's not the real thing...and that could be said about a lot of Stones performances during this tour.

> They still have so much to give; my God, listen to
> what a great blues and R&B band they are now.
> They simply need to be willing to adapt the format
> and the presentation...

And I desperately hope that this will happen...

Stones the worst live band in the world?


.......................................


.......................................


(I'm speechless!!)

"got to be worked on
don't have no bark nor bite..."

HEY! You! GET OFF OF MY CLOUD!!!! Wow I've been 5 shows. And they have all been increadable!!!! Mick is so awesome. After 40 years to put the energy that he does on every night I saw. I read some guys review about Salt Lake City and he complains about some ridiculas crap. Yea Rain Fall Down wasn't that good and it was on TV well did that bother Mick...No he just kicked ass. I was up close and that guy was commited to rocking the house. You talk about set lists like they mean something. I'll just remember Micks face as he put his talant and energy into getting me and the citys around my country Off!! The guy must do some serious working out to do what he does on stage. And Keith...well when he's gone its gone. I treasure every note I get to hear him play. I love to see and hear him strut down the stage and play that blast on SFTD. I'm sorry I've loved every Satisfaction that I heard this tour. That mathias dude is like a drunk saying " yea there not as good as I never was" what a loser. One Midnight Rambler didn't work big deal look at the big picture.

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let's hope the stage collapses on the Stones. No
> more dreadful, painful and shameful shows. The
> Stones anno 2005 are a disgrace for their own
> legacy.
>
> Mathijs


NO MORE STADIUM TOURS! They're too old to pull it off anymore and I'm too old to waste my time listening to them disintegrate on stage. They need to dispense with the giant stages and the maga world tours, and try something they have the energy to put their hearts into - if they must tour at all. And whatever they do, they should make it affordable so that it can be just another night out to listen to some great music for average people.

In 1982 I wrote more articles in the IORR as I do now. At that time everything was a bit different. And Björnulf may remember those times. No e-mail, no internet. You tried to get a glimpse of every possible information. And you sucked it in like nothing.
Already at that time I wrote about the incompetence of starting and closing some of the songs played life. At those time you depended much more on the mood of the band that night. So if the band felt ok you received a damn great concert, and I recall a lot (as some do in the seventies and sixties). Today you want to have a damn good concert on every single set. The Rolling Stones always have to perform at a very high level. OK They still play live and not only playback like a Las Vegas show. But the expectations are just out of mind and out of sight.
And the information flow of the internet makes us get bored very very fast.

I do understand that people have a reluctant oppinion on their work today, I can understand the critics. But sometimes I wonder and I ask myself how such people would react if they get critizised themselves.
Regarding the pricing of the show: I do agree it's a lot of money, but I have not had a single negative statement during the concerts even when I was sitting at the 450 USD range. And these people expected a lot before the show.

Let's just get back that enthusiasm and delay perhaps other holidays as I agree that the tickets are to expensive, but so far worth for it all. Mind you we did not have 450 USD seats all the time. I crabbed 99USD for Row 9 right side of stage which was an awesome view.

tomee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One Midnight
> Rambler didn't work big deal look at the big
> picture.

That's exactly what I do, I just used this Hollywood Bowl Midnight Rambler as an example. I know it is always difficult to come up with examples, but I used this because it is a very good recording and it can easily be heard what the critics are talking about when they mention terms like 'lack of inspiration', "sounding bored' etc. Been to 6 ABB shows so far and listened to recordings of a lot of other shows. I've seen the Stones many times on both sides of the Atlantic since 1972 and must say, the show is still very good when you talk about the spectacle. But musically, this current tour is the least impressive for me. It is my impression that this time they sound uninspired and bored more often than not. Never had this feeling before. Of course, in the past they had bad nights too. But this time, lack of inspiration and bored playing is a more or less general impression. That said, 6 ABB shows will do for me unless things change considerably. And I have next to no hope for shows in other parts of the world, because I can't see how they will be able to refresh their playing and enthusiasm when they lack inspiration and enthusiasm already in these early stages of a one year world tour. That said, I'll always welcome a pleasant surprise.

I am not moaning after viewing a great performance here in Seattle, but let's face it, Mick did promise in the pre-tour press conference, that the boys would be digging deep into their extensive catalog for songs to play on their forthcoming tour.
After doing their digging, what nuggets did they come up with? Nothing new if you ask me. "She's So Cold" is about it. As far as "Night Time" and "Get Up Stand Up" could anyone care less?.
Surprise us for crying out loud. " Winter", "Coming Down Again", "Moonlight Mile","Sway","Salt of the Earth", "Jigsaw Puzzle","One Hit", "Last Time","Play With Fire", "She's A Rainbow","Highwire", "Time Waits For No One", "Where The Boys Go","Tops","Litle T&A","Mothers Little Helper","Dance Little Sister", and the list goes on and on.
It's time to retire "Miss You", Tumbling Dice" IORR, and HTW.

" Winter" - No way.
"Coming Down Again" - No way.
"Moonlight Mile" - I'd rather hear something else.
"Sway" - Do this one.
"Salt of the Earth" - No way. Not too good live.
"Jigsaw Puzzle" - Good choice.
"One Hit" - No way.
"Last Time" - Rather something else.
"Play With Fire" - Good choice.
"She's A Rainbow" - Didn't work too good in Copenhagen 1998.
"Highwire" - OH YEAH!!!
"Time Waits For No One" - Nah.
"Where The Boys Go" - NO!!!!
"Tops" - Boring.
"Little T&A" - Yeah. Cool one.
"Mothers Little Helper" - Don't think they could pull it off.
"Dance Little Sister" - Oh yeah.



JumpingKentFlash



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-11-27 14:02 by JumpingKentFlash.

I have to agree with mathijs, boring boring from what I've seen and heard from this tour and even from the licks tour. that one never should have happened.From what I've heard ticket prices in holland will be around the 200 euro's for a stadium concert. I will never pay that to see keith pose and ronnie @#$%& up, Jagger is saving every concert cause he's damn good, but if he had succes with his solo projects he would have left the band ages ago. Just look at the musicians he choose for his solo tours, much better musicians than the stones ever would have been. Jagger is now holding back and screeming come on to the boys to let them now when a change is gonna come in the song: embarrasing to see that, especially at songs they play for a hundred years now.