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Spud

Analogue recording , mastering and to vinyl and vinyl playback are all very flawed process, with many problems and limitations ...

...but , for me, they don't lose as much musical information as the CD format does . [Digital is now very good...but CD isn't good digital]

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jackflash27
Number is printed/ filled in with pen (?) on bottom of the box. It’s clearly visible through the cellophane. It’s not necessary to open up.

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ash

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MrEcho

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wiredallnight
Why should I buy vinyl records in mono? It's like buying a VHS cassette in black & white.

Stereo for consumer use was first introduced in 1958. In the late 1950s and in the 1960s most LPs were usually released in separate mono and stereo versions. Singles were always in mono up until the late 1960s. In the late 1950s stereo LPs had a market share of well under 20% in the US. Even in 1966 over 60% of all LPs sold in the US were still mono. Radio was always in mono. As a consequence musicians and producers concentrated on getting the mono versions of their records right and regarded those as the primary products. The stereo versions were seen as novelties for a niche market. The stereo mixes were often made without personal supervision by artists and producers and therefore differed from the carefully constructed mono mixes authorized by the artists. Complicated overdubs and edits that were made on the mono mixes often were not recreated for the stereo versions.

When stereo became the new worldwide industry standard by 1970 (1968 in the US, 1969 in the UK), the mono versions of old records were no longer repressed and the stereo versions were accepted as the "standard" versions (especially by younger consumers, who did not know the mono versions).

In addition to a lack of artistic supervision early stereo mixes also suffered from the shortcomings of stereo technology in the 1960s. When cutting stereo lacquers loud bass notes tended to distort. Furthermore stereo pick-ups of the period often had problems tracking the grooves of loud bass notes and skipped. For those reasons the bass was usually dialed back in the stereo masters, which resulted in a rather "thin" bass sound on early stereo mixes. In comparison the mono mixes have much more bass and simply sound much heavier and rocking. Furthermore early stereo mixes were made in a way that overstated the stereo effect: the elements of the music were placed far apart in the stereo soundscape. Far to the left, far to the right and in the center. You do not hear a band, but separate elements that often distract from the overall effect.

Some mono versions are so-called fold-downs, which means that instead of creating two separate mixes the music was mixed in stereo and than the two channels were combined or folded down for the mono LPs. But even then engineers were always monitoring the mix in mono to make sure the mono worked. And again the bass was usually reduced in the stereo master for the reasons pointed out above. Furthermore you have to remember that the art of mixing mono sound had been perfected over a long period of time, while stereo was still a new thing in 1960s pop music. Consequently a carefully made fold-down from the period is still preferable to a crude stereo mix.

If you want to hear the sound that musicians of the late 1950s and the 1960s wanted their audience to hear, you need to listen to the mono mixes.

Superb explanation. For any doubters, compare the original single (mono) of Get Off Of My Cloud to the stereo mix on Decembers Children.
If any Stones fans can stomach it, compare the mono Sgt Pepper to stereo Pepper. The mono has all sorts of phasing, ADT (automatic double tracking) etc. not present in stereo. It just sounds far more cohesive and is a completely different listening experience. You can hear the extra care that went into it whereas the stereo is, bang that left , bang that right, no phasing etc..
When the (stereo) cd came out, George Harrison was complaining that they'd used the wrong tape. Lennon too complained about stereo mixes being used in the 70s.
About 3 Fab4 LP's had good stereo mixes but as Mr Echo says, if you want to hear a record as intended by the artist, almost without exception until 1968, you really need the mono. It was the main "market" and the artists frequently had no involvement with the stereo mix.
Here's a good video with Glyn Johns explaining all this with specific Stones detail.
[www.youtube.com]

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snoopy2

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ash

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MrEcho

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wiredallnight
Why should I buy vinyl records in mono? It's like buying a VHS cassette in black & white.

Stereo for consumer use was first introduced in 1958. In the late 1950s and in the 1960s most LPs were usually released in separate mono and stereo versions. Singles were always in mono up until the late 1960s. In the late 1950s stereo LPs had a market share of well under 20% in the US. Even in 1966 over 60% of all LPs sold in the US were still mono. Radio was always in mono. As a consequence musicians and producers concentrated on getting the mono versions of their records right and regarded those as the primary products. The stereo versions were seen as novelties for a niche market. The stereo mixes were often made without personal supervision by artists and producers and therefore differed from the carefully constructed mono mixes authorized by the artists. Complicated overdubs and edits that were made on the mono mixes often were not recreated for the stereo versions.

When stereo became the new worldwide industry standard by 1970 (1968 in the US, 1969 in the UK), the mono versions of old records were no longer repressed and the stereo versions were accepted as the "standard" versions (especially by younger consumers, who did not know the mono versions).

In addition to a lack of artistic supervision early stereo mixes also suffered from the shortcomings of stereo technology in the 1960s. When cutting stereo lacquers loud bass notes tended to distort. Furthermore stereo pick-ups of the period often had problems tracking the grooves of loud bass notes and skipped. For those reasons the bass was usually dialed back in the stereo masters, which resulted in a rather "thin" bass sound on early stereo mixes. In comparison the mono mixes have much more bass and simply sound much heavier and rocking. Furthermore early stereo mixes were made in a way that overstated the stereo effect: the elements of the music were placed far apart in the stereo soundscape. Far to the left, far to the right and in the center. You do not hear a band, but separate elements that often distract from the overall effect.

Some mono versions are so-called fold-downs, which means that instead of creating two separate mixes the music was mixed in stereo and than the two channels were combined or folded down for the mono LPs. But even then engineers were always monitoring the mix in mono to make sure the mono worked. And again the bass was usually reduced in the stereo master for the reasons pointed out above. Furthermore you have to remember that the art of mixing mono sound had been perfected over a long period of time, while stereo was still a new thing in 1960s pop music. Consequently a carefully made fold-down from the period is still preferable to a crude stereo mix.

If you want to hear the sound that musicians of the late 1950s and the 1960s wanted their audience to hear, you need to listen to the mono mixes.

Superb explanation. For any doubters, compare the original single (mono) of Get Off Of My Cloud to the stereo mix on Decembers Children.
If any Stones fans can stomach it, compare the mono Sgt Pepper to stereo Pepper. The mono has all sorts of phasing, ADT (automatic double tracking) etc. not present in stereo. It just sounds far more cohesive and is a completely different listening experience. You can hear the extra care that went into it whereas the stereo is, bang that left , bang that right, no phasing etc..
When the (stereo) cd came out, George Harrison was complaining that they'd used the wrong tape. Lennon too complained about stereo mixes being used in the 70s.
About 3 Fab4 LP's had good stereo mixes but as Mr Echo says, if you want to hear a record as intended by the artist, almost without exception until 1968, you really need the mono. It was the main "market" and the artists frequently had no involvement with the stereo mix.
Here's a good video with Glyn Johns explaining all this with specific Stones detail.
[www.youtube.com]

Both these posts were quite informative to me.. As someone who always purchased the cheapest turntable I could afford, stacked records to keep the party going, bumped the turntable quite often dancing or wrestling around, and was generally just into the “songs” over quality of sound I never paid much attention to the history of mono/stereo or their differences.. Now I have to go spend more money tracking down the mono of all my early stuff! (And invest in a decent turntable/speakers cuz frankly my speakers are thrift shop purchases)

Your posts also got me thinking about the different quality of releases, my Some Girls vinyl for instance (an original copy by the way) has always sounded thin and somewhat screechy/high end to me so I usually just put in my CD version. Anyone know if this is due to the low end equipment I play it on? The mix? Most of my other Stones’ vinyl sound fine, but SG can be grating if I play it before my coffee.. As for stereo left and right I have also always been intrigued by my copy of Lou Reeds The Blue Mask mentioning which side Lou’s guitar was on in the liner notes and wondered how it somehow differed from playing the CD in the car cuz frankly I never heard much difference.

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Testify

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snoopy2

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ash

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MrEcho

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wiredallnight
Why should I buy vinyl records in mono? It's like buying a VHS cassette in black & white.

Stereo for consumer use was first introduced in 1958. In the late 1950s and in the 1960s most LPs were usually released in separate mono and stereo versions. Singles were always in mono up until the late 1960s. In the late 1950s stereo LPs had a market share of well under 20% in the US. Even in 1966 over 60% of all LPs sold in the US were still mono. Radio was always in mono. As a consequence musicians and producers concentrated on getting the mono versions of their records right and regarded those as the primary products. The stereo versions were seen as novelties for a niche market. The stereo mixes were often made without personal supervision by artists and producers and therefore differed from the carefully constructed mono mixes authorized by the artists. Complicated overdubs and edits that were made on the mono mixes often were not recreated for the stereo versions.

When stereo became the new worldwide industry standard by 1970 (1968 in the US, 1969 in the UK), the mono versions of old records were no longer repressed and the stereo versions were accepted as the "standard" versions (especially by younger consumers, who did not know the mono versions).

In addition to a lack of artistic supervision early stereo mixes also suffered from the shortcomings of stereo technology in the 1960s. When cutting stereo lacquers loud bass notes tended to distort. Furthermore stereo pick-ups of the period often had problems tracking the grooves of loud bass notes and skipped. For those reasons the bass was usually dialed back in the stereo masters, which resulted in a rather "thin" bass sound on early stereo mixes. In comparison the mono mixes have much more bass and simply sound much heavier and rocking. Furthermore early stereo mixes were made in a way that overstated the stereo effect: the elements of the music were placed far apart in the stereo soundscape. Far to the left, far to the right and in the center. You do not hear a band, but separate elements that often distract from the overall effect.

Some mono versions are so-called fold-downs, which means that instead of creating two separate mixes the music was mixed in stereo and than the two channels were combined or folded down for the mono LPs. But even then engineers were always monitoring the mix in mono to make sure the mono worked. And again the bass was usually reduced in the stereo master for the reasons pointed out above. Furthermore you have to remember that the art of mixing mono sound had been perfected over a long period of time, while stereo was still a new thing in 1960s pop music. Consequently a carefully made fold-down from the period is still preferable to a crude stereo mix.

If you want to hear the sound that musicians of the late 1950s and the 1960s wanted their audience to hear, you need to listen to the mono mixes.

Superb explanation. For any doubters, compare the original single (mono) of Get Off Of My Cloud to the stereo mix on Decembers Children.
If any Stones fans can stomach it, compare the mono Sgt Pepper to stereo Pepper. The mono has all sorts of phasing, ADT (automatic double tracking) etc. not present in stereo. It just sounds far more cohesive and is a completely different listening experience. You can hear the extra care that went into it whereas the stereo is, bang that left , bang that right, no phasing etc..
When the (stereo) cd came out, George Harrison was complaining that they'd used the wrong tape. Lennon too complained about stereo mixes being used in the 70s.
About 3 Fab4 LP's had good stereo mixes but as Mr Echo says, if you want to hear a record as intended by the artist, almost without exception until 1968, you really need the mono. It was the main "market" and the artists frequently had no involvement with the stereo mix.
Here's a good video with Glyn Johns explaining all this with specific Stones detail.
[www.youtube.com]

Both these posts were quite informative to me.. As someone who always purchased the cheapest turntable I could afford, stacked records to keep the party going, bumped the turntable quite often dancing or wrestling around, and was generally just into the “songs” over quality of sound I never paid much attention to the history of mono/stereo or their differences.. Now I have to go spend more money tracking down the mono of all my early stuff! (And invest in a decent turntable/speakers cuz frankly my speakers are thrift shop purchases)

Your posts also got me thinking about the different quality of releases, my Some Girls vinyl for instance (an original copy by the way) has always sounded thin and somewhat screechy/high end to me so I usually just put in my CD version. Anyone know if this is due to the low end equipment I play it on? The mix? Most of my other Stones’ vinyl sound fine, but SG can be grating if I play it before my coffee.. As for stereo left and right I have also always been intrigued by my copy of Lou Reeds The Blue Mask mentioning which side Lou’s guitar was on in the liner notes and wondered how it somehow differed from playing the CD in the car cuz frankly I never heard much difference.

For what it's worth I agree with the two posts...in some songs it's also very evident, so this mono collection is worth having, I bought it a few years ago and it made me re-evaluate some songs (albums) that stereo version managed to screw up.

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Irix
"The Rolling Stones' In Mono: it's great but it borders on abuse" - [www.LouderSound.com] , [Twitter.com] .

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liddas
I assume there is no way to buy the singular items, correct?

C

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treaclefingers

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liddas
I assume there is no way to buy the singular items, correct?

C

There will be when invariably these start popping up on EBAY as a few people will split up the boxes to sell individual titles for a profit. But no announcements for individual mono titles officially being released, and probably not going to happen.

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ironbelly

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treaclefingers

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liddas
I assume there is no way to buy the singular items, correct?

C

There will be when invariably these start popping up on EBAY as a few people will split up the boxes to sell individual titles for a profit. But no announcements for individual mono titles officially being released, and probably not going to happen.

Well, individual SHM-CDs are available. I would say that in Europe they are widely available and reasonably priced.

Why people are buying vinyl records anyway?

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Irix
Mono-Box (Color-LPs) - available again & still € 354.99 - [www.Bravado.de] .

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treaclefingers

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ironbelly

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treaclefingers

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liddas
I assume there is no way to buy the singular items, correct?

C

There will be when invariably these start popping up on EBAY as a few people will split up the boxes to sell individual titles for a profit. But no announcements for individual mono titles officially being released, and probably not going to happen.

Well, individual SHM-CDs are available. I would say that in Europe they are widely available and reasonably priced.

Why people are buying vinyl records anyway?

CDs? That's so, 1990s!

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ironbelly

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treaclefingers

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ironbelly

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treaclefingers

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liddas
I assume there is no way to buy the singular items, correct?

C

There will be when invariably these start popping up on EBAY as a few people will split up the boxes to sell individual titles for a profit. But no announcements for individual mono titles officially being released, and probably not going to happen.

Well, individual SHM-CDs are available. I would say that in Europe they are widely available and reasonably priced.

Why people are buying vinyl records anyway?

CDs? That's so, 1990s!

Still, a bit more serious than 'millennial' colored vinyl

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stonesstein

anyone notice anything different?

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stonesstein
Just got #3923/10,000 from ABKCo in Ferndale, MI USA.

Have not yet opened it, as I have an engagement this evening.

OTHER than colored-wax, is there anything different with the new Box than the 2016 Box? I presume there are no 7" therein, but otherwise, anyone notice anything different?

Thanks to all.

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ironbelly

1. Glossy finish of the box itself

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ironbelly

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stonesstein
Just got #3923/10,000 from ABKCo in Ferndale, MI USA.

Have not yet opened it, as I have an engagement this evening.

OTHER than colored-wax, is there anything different with the new Box than the 2016 Box? I presume there are no 7" therein, but otherwise, anyone notice anything different?

Thanks to all.

1. Glossy finish of the box itself
2. Paper inner sleeves. You need to wash the record before playing
That what vinyl purists said on Steve Hoffman's music forum

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treaclefingers

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ironbelly

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stonesstein
Just got #3923/10,000 from ABKCo in Ferndale, MI USA.

Have not yet opened it, as I have an engagement this evening.

OTHER than colored-wax, is there anything different with the new Box than the 2016 Box? I presume there are no 7" therein, but otherwise, anyone notice anything different?

Thanks to all.

1. Glossy finish of the box itself
2. Paper inner sleeves. You need to wash the record before playing
That what vinyl purists said on Steve Hoffman's music forum

That AND No. 2 is warped/dished but playable for most people.

There is also some feedback that there is an audible difference to the negative, when compared to 2016 but I think the jury is still out on that. The recording itself is apparently quieter than 2016, so the noise floor is higher but as it's still a dead quiet pressing, it doesn't make that much difference.

I know all this because I read, not because I've listened, because I'm STILL WAITING to get my copy!

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stonesstein

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treaclefingers

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ironbelly

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stonesstein
Just got #3923/10,000 from ABKCo in Ferndale, MI USA.

Have not yet opened it, as I have an engagement this evening.

OTHER than colored-wax, is there anything different with the new Box than the 2016 Box? I presume there are no 7" therein, but otherwise, anyone notice anything different?

Thanks to all.

1. Glossy finish of the box itself
2. Paper inner sleeves. You need to wash the record before playing
That what vinyl purists said on Steve Hoffman's music forum

That AND No. 2 is warped/dished but playable for most people.

There is also some feedback that there is an audible difference to the negative, when compared to 2016 but I think the jury is still out on that. The recording itself is apparently quieter than 2016, so the noise floor is higher but as it's still a dead quiet pressing, it doesn't make that much difference.

I know all this because I read, not because I've listened, because I'm STILL WAITING to get my copy!

Thanks to Ironbelly for true knowledge! From where did your 2022 copy come and what number is it?

Treacle, yer day is coming, Bubba! When you get it, let's swap notes!!!

Thanks to all!

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stonesstein

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treaclefingers

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ironbelly

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stonesstein
Just got #3923/10,000 from ABKCo in Ferndale, MI USA.

Have not yet opened it, as I have an engagement this evening.

OTHER than colored-wax, is there anything different with the new Box than the 2016 Box? I presume there are no 7" therein, but otherwise, anyone notice anything different?

Thanks to all.

1. Glossy finish of the box itself
2. Paper inner sleeves. You need to wash the record before playing
That what vinyl purists said on Steve Hoffman's music forum

That AND No. 2 is warped/dished but playable for most people.

There is also some feedback that there is an audible difference to the negative, when compared to 2016 but I think the jury is still out on that. The recording itself is apparently quieter than 2016, so the noise floor is higher but as it's still a dead quiet pressing, it doesn't make that much difference.

I know all this because I read, not because I've listened, because I'm STILL WAITING to get my copy!

Thanks to Ironbelly for true knowledge! From where did your 2022 copy come and what number is it?

Treacle, yer day is coming, Bubba! When you get it, let's swap notes!!!

Thanks to all!

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Irix

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stonesstein

anyone notice anything different?

Paul Sinclair of SuperDeluxeEdition.com says there're no differences to the 2016 Box except the color of the Vinyl (Pos. 2:40) :



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