Probably going to post a lot regarding this topic. But I am the main interviewee in a magazine called "The last time" that is to be released in the Nordics sometime in june and also a 1 hour podcast show. There is a lot of stuff that I will provide but one of them: album rankings 0-5 stars.

So my approach, except for that I of course know the full catalogue on the back of my hand, is to work them through one by one backwards. So the time has come for ABB.

When released I thought ABB was the strongest album since Undercover with a ranking of maybe 3,5/5 or 4/5. But time changes and I know consider the album below Voodoo Lounge, maybe below BtB and Steel Wheels. Reason is basically that the album does not give me thrills. It's an extremely well produced album, no doubt about that... and it has one hit single: SOL (at least in some countries). But apart from that it's a pretty forgettable album IMO and lacks memorable moments.

Steel Wheels was the comeback album and included some clean rock and roll hits and 2 good ballads in AHYS and Slipping Away, Vooodoo Lounge (as some might say was the "real" comeback album) won a grammy and has a lot of songs that gives me the late "Stones feeling".

When I look upon Streaming numbers etc. I can see that I am not alone with not having any of the ABB songs in my playlists. But I do have songs from VL, SW.

What are your thoughts 17 years after it being released. Is the album still spinning in your machines? How would you rate it?

Tiff

I don't spin the record as a whole but I constantly have a number of favourite tracks in rotation. More than from VL SW DW and UC actually. So my rating is a bit disjointed, I guess if I listened to the whole thing it would feel sonically exhausting because of the mix. It Won't Take Long, She Saw Me Coming, Dangerous Beauty, Laugh I Nearly Died, Under The Radar, Don't Wanna Go Home are in regular rotation, Rough Justice, Let Me Down Slow, Rain Fall Down, Back Of My Hand, Driving Too Fast are also keepers. You know what, that's all pretty solid

I think Jagger said, when asked in an interview (around the 1981/82 tour), about what he considers a good album, something like: "One hit single and two tracks you can play live". I don't know if ABB stands that test...

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Nikkei
I don't spin the record as a whole but I constantly have a number of favourite tracks in rotation. More than from VL SW DW and UC actually. So my rating is a bit disjointed, I guess if I listened to the whole thing it would feel sonically exhausting because of the mix. It Won't Take Long, She Saw Me Coming, Dangerous Beauty, Laugh I Nearly Died, Under The Radar, Don't Wanna Go Home are in regular rotation, Rough Justice, Let Me Down Slow, Rain Fall Down, Back Of My Hand, Driving Too Fast are also keepers. You know what, that's all pretty solid

Good for you. I quite enjoy the songs when I listen to some of them 1 by 1. But I seem to forget about the album all the time. Actually none of the songs stands out the way that Love is strong do (for instance). Probably today I would say Let me down slow is the best track of the album...along with BoMH.

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Stoneage
I think Jagger said, when asked in an interview (around the 1981/82 tour), about what he considers a good album, something like: "One hit single and two tracks you can play live". I don't know if ABB stands that test...

Streets of Love was of course a hit in some countries. But today 17 years later I consider it weak in comparison to BBR, AHYS etc. Also the rockers - ONNYA was weak at the release. RJ has not aged the way that FTS, OOC, YGMR and LIS.

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tiffanyblu

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Nikkei
I don't spin the record as a whole but I constantly have a number of favourite tracks in rotation. More than from VL SW DW and UC actually. So my rating is a bit disjointed, I guess if I listened to the whole thing it would feel sonically exhausting because of the mix. It Won't Take Long, She Saw Me Coming, Dangerous Beauty, Laugh I Nearly Died, Under The Radar, Don't Wanna Go Home are in regular rotation, Rough Justice, Let Me Down Slow, Rain Fall Down, Back Of My Hand, Driving Too Fast are also keepers. You know what, that's all pretty solid

Good for you. I quite enjoy the songs when I listen to some of them 1 by 1. But I seem to forget about the album all the time. Actually none of the songs stands out the way that Love is strong do (for instance). Probably today I would say Let me down slow is the best track of the album...along with BoMH.

I agree Love is Strong definitely has an energy and a sense of familiarity that is difficult to find in all of ABB. I mean the album is surprisingly coherent in its own way which is to say very in-your-face and aggressive. You can hear the very tight space they were working in physically. That's what I found interesting about the 2002 outtakes that leaked some time ago, notably You Don't Wanna (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaUypkpljxU) There you seem to have the immediate classic Stones familiarity combined with that new bare-bones modern approach. Sort of a shame that only Forty Licks came out of that.

If it's on my turntable I don't shut it off, it's listenable



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-04-13 23:36 by snoopy2.

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Nikkei

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tiffanyblu

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Nikkei
I don't spin the record as a whole but I constantly have a number of favourite tracks in rotation. More than from VL SW DW and UC actually. So my rating is a bit disjointed, I guess if I listened to the whole thing it would feel sonically exhausting because of the mix. It Won't Take Long, She Saw Me Coming, Dangerous Beauty, Laugh I Nearly Died, Under The Radar, Don't Wanna Go Home are in regular rotation, Rough Justice, Let Me Down Slow, Rain Fall Down, Back Of My Hand, Driving Too Fast are also keepers. You know what, that's all pretty solid

Good for you. I quite enjoy the songs when I listen to some of them 1 by 1. But I seem to forget about the album all the time. Actually none of the songs stands out the way that Love is strong do (for instance). Probably today I would say Let me down slow is the best track of the album...along with BoMH.

I agree Love is Strong definitely has an energy and a sense of familiarity that is difficult to find in all of ABB. I mean the album is surprisingly coherent in its own way which is to say very in-your-face and aggressive. You can hear the very tight space they were working in physically. That's what I found interesting about the 2002 outtakes that leaked some time ago, notably You Don't Wanna (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaUypkpljxU) There you seem to have the immediate classic Stones familiarity combined with that new bare-bones modern approach. Sort of a shame that only Forty Licks came out of that.

yep. and the songs we got from forty licks had a "old" Stones feeling to them. I agree.

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snoopy2
If it's on my turntable I don't shut it off, it's listenable

it is listenable, absolutely. I like almost all tunes on it. No discussion about that.

Hi Tiff. It’s not an album I play regularly. I would kind of like Keith to include This Place Is Empty in his set at some point though. (Likely a minority opinion.)

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SomeTorontoGirl
Hi Tiff. It’s not an album I play regularly. I would kind of like Keith to include This Place Is Empty in his set at some point though. (Likely a minority opinion.)

No that's a good tune...excepting the 'bare your breasts' line which I've always found a tad cringey.

The album as a whole is great, just needed to lose a few weaker songs that made it a bit bloated. Not every album has to be a double album!

With some editing, including Under the Radar, AND and this is the tricky one, having a 'hit single', we'd have a completely different opinion about this album.

It's revisionist and will never happen of course, but if we had a Start Me Up-like lead single, and then 9-10 other of the best tracks, this would be considered a modern classic.

Rough Justice, Back of My Hand, She Saw Me Coming, Rain Fall Down, Dangerous Beauty...that's half an album right there off the top of my head. Oh No Not You Again, This Place Is Empty, Under The Radar, It Won't Take Long, one other maybe and that KILLER single which we unfortunately do not get.

So close!

A BIGGER BANG is, as much as I like it regarding what was going on in my life at the time (Hurricane Katrina, complete upheaval of life because of Katrina and including a toxic relationship, and, in general, major uncertainty), although there are tunes on it I really like, in context of their discography, well, it's much better as an EP.

But then I love UNDERCOVER and EMOTIONAL RESCUE and BLACK AND BLUE.

But critically I get it (any of it).

Better than BETWEEN THE BUTTONS? That's a tough one.

Better than BRIDGES? As a whole... yeah. Creatively? No.

Better than VOODOO? Yes.

And, of course, anything is better than MAJESTIES and DIRTY WORK, both of which would've worked much better as... EPs.

On that note, for me, fifth from the bottom (or something like that). Even if you include BLUE AND LONESOME in your total.

I don't agree that ABB is well produced, The drums are unimaginative. Just boom boom bang, boom boom bang, over and over. Charlie used to be able to light up a track like 'It Won't Take Long' but it's musically dull. Nothing swings. Maybe it's Mick on drum as Charlie was ill around this time; who knows? Rough Justice is great. But if you compare tracks like Driving Too Fast and Oh No not you again, with the relaxed power of their 70's output e.g. Tumbling Dice, Plundered My Soul or anything on Goat's head Soup, the ABB tracks sound forced.All rock and no roll, as Keith likes to say.

I go back to this album a lot. It’s got some great tracks on it. I’d take it over any of the 80s stuff.

I like ABB. There are some songs I never listen to - Sweet Neo Con, Rain Fall Down etc because the lyrics simply make me cringe, but there are certain songs that are on regular rotation for me; This Place Is Empty, Look What The Cat Dragged In, Laugh, I Nearly Died, Rough Justice etc...

For my personal tastes, I would have included Don't Wanna Go Home, Under The Radar and Hurricane and left off Sweet Neo-Con, Rain Fall Down and perhaps Biggest Mistake, but I am aware that some people love those songs (Well, not Sweet Neo-Con), so that is where a CD-Burner or an iTunes playlist comes in handy!

People seem to be overly critical of this album, but I often wonder if that is solely because it was the last album of new songs in 17 years. Perhaps if they had followed it up 4 years later with another batch, and then another, it would be looked upon more favourably - I just think we have been given too much time to mull it over.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-04-14 12:36 by Barkerboy2.

Hehe, I remember people were comparing it to Exile when it was just released. Classic case of wishful thinking I quess.

I don't really play albums as a whole anymore. I have a couple of Stones Spotify playlists, based on moods or styles. Rock songs, ballads, blues, country, hits.. And there aren't many ABB songs in those playlists. Laugh I nearly Died and Biggest Mistake are the only two I think.

When the album was released I really liked Rough Justice and Oh No Not You Again. But when I listen to them now, they're a bit shallow. Especially the latter sounds (I don't know the English word for it) like it lacks half of the instruments of the rest of the songs on the album. And when I first heard Back of my Hand, I loved it because they hadn't record a decent blues number for ages before that. But nearly every song on Blue & Lonesome is better than BomH in my opinion. Streets of Love and Rain Fall Down are good songs too, but I just don't play them a lot.

When I have to rank this album now, I'll give it 3 out of 5. It's not as good as Steel Wheels or Voodoo Lounge, but it's better than Bridges to Babylon, Undercover or Dirty Work imo.

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tiffanyblu

So my approach, except for that I of course know the full catalogue on the back of my hand, is to work them through one by one backwards. So the time has come for ABB.

Tiff

Congrats to you Tiff on being the interviewee for this project. Looks like it should be a fun opportunity. I am curious though, in counting the albums backwards, why you aren’t starting with “Blue & Lonesome”? I’m guessing it’s because there is no original material there?

As for ABB, much of it for me is hit and miss. Some of the tracks I really enjoy and will listen to them rather frequently, such as Rough Justice, Rain Fall Down, and my absolute favourite, Laugh I Nearly Died, which in my opinion stands among their all-time greatest tracks. I also enjoy This Place Is Empty, Back Of My Hand, and Biggest Mistake. But the there are several other tracks that, after only a few listens, remain completely forgettable to me.

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sf37

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tiffanyblu

So my approach, except for that I of course know the full catalogue on the back of my hand, is to work them through one by one backwards. So the time has come for ABB.

Tiff

Congrats to you Tiff on being the interviewee for this project. Looks like it should be a fun opportunity. I am curious though, in counting the albums backwards, why you aren’t starting with “Blue & Lonesome”? I’m guessing it’s because there is no original material there?

As for ABB, much of it for me is hit and miss. Some of the tracks I really enjoy and will listen to them rather frequently, such as Rough Justice, Rain Fall Down, and my absolute favourite, Laugh I Nearly Died, which in my opinion stands among their all-time greatest tracks. I also enjoy This Place Is Empty, Back Of My Hand, and Biggest Mistake. But the there are several other tracks that, after only a few listens, remain completely forgettable to me.

Thx sf37! Well I am starting with B&L, but I have a more clear picture of that one. The one confusing me at the moment is ABB thx for your input!

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bakersfield
I don't agree that ABB is well produced, The drums are unimaginative. Just boom boom bang, boom boom bang, over and over. Charlie used to be able to light up a track like 'It Won't Take Long' but it's musically dull. Nothing swings. Maybe it's Mick on drum as Charlie was ill around this time; who knows? Rough Justice is great. But if you compare tracks like Driving Too Fast and Oh No not you again, with the relaxed power of their 70's output e.g. Tumbling Dice, Plundered My Soul or anything on Goat's head Soup, the ABB tracks sound forced.All rock and no roll, as Keith likes to say.

One thing that annoyes me is the fact that most songs sounds the same. As you say, the drumming is on repeat for most songs.

To be a bit cynical: The Stones' album output mattered up to Tattoo You (maybe U also). After that their heydays as hit makers were over. Simple as that.
Sure, compare ABB with VL or BtB if you want. To me it's pretty much irrelevant.

ROCKMAN

A Bigger Bang for me personally, is the Stones weakest album. It is just an album i have never got into, despite really trying. I find the production way way over the top and the lyrics on many occasions just desperately poor.

I can maybe listen to 1 or 2 tracks on a rare occasion, but apart from that it was (and still is in 2022) just a disappointment. Steel Wheels, Voodoo Lounge and Bridges, way way better albums for me.

For what its worth, I think all the new tracks since ABB, like Doom & Gloom, Ghost, One More Shot and Blue & Lonesome (I appreciate they are covers), have been really good inc lyrics and production. So I have optimism that a new album could still be really good. Please !!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-04-16 13:47 by jigsaw69.

How do you rate the early albums with a U.K. version and a U.S. version? Do you rate them separately?

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jahisnotdead
How do you rate the early albums with a U.K. version and a U.S. version? Do you rate them separately?

Yes. So the albums with two versions will have two ratings. Example:

Album ”X”
Rating: **** (US version), *** (UK version)

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SomeTorontoGirl
Hi Tiff. It’s not an album I play regularly. I would kind of like Keith to include This Place Is Empty in his set at some point though. (Likely a minority opinion.)

Thx SomeTorontoGirl. As you know - I like TPIE as well

I still like ABB. I think it’s got some great songs on it. And it holds great memories for me because I had taken 6 months off and was travelling through Canada, the US and Europe. The album came out when I was in Toronto…. A few days later we saw the Stones at MSG and Giants Stadium, and Paul McCartney at the Fleet Center in Boston. Then we headed to Europe and drove all around, and ABB was the CD that we had on repeat in the car. So whenever I hear the album I am instantly transported back to those days…… which I guess says a lot for the idea that, often it’s the memories that you associate with a song or an album that make it special….

But, looking at it objectively, I still think there are some really strong songs on that album. There is some crap too - it’s definitely 4 or 5 songs too long

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bakersfield
I don't agree that ABB is well produced, The drums are unimaginative. Just boom boom bang, boom boom bang, over and over. Charlie used to be able to light up a track like 'It Won't Take Long' but it's musically dull. Nothing swings. Maybe it's Mick on drum as Charlie was ill around this time; who knows? Rough Justice is great. But if you compare tracks like Driving Too Fast and Oh No not you again, with the relaxed power of their 70's output e.g. Tumbling Dice, Plundered My Soul or anything on Goat's head Soup, the ABB tracks sound forced.All rock and no roll, as Keith likes to say.

Mick does not play drums on the album.

The mix is one thing - the mastering is what made the LP awful overall. Mastering can enhance or ruin dynamics - and that is certainly what happened on this album.

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ribbelchips
Hehe, I remember people were comparing it to Exile when it was just released. Classic case of wishful thinking I quess.

EXILE was skewed when it came out.

When the record came out it didn't sell particularly well at the beginning, and it was also pretty much universally panned. But within a few years the people who had written the reviews saying it was a piece of crap were extolling it as the best frigging album in the world.
- Keith Richards, 2003

Critics always like to give the Stones bad reviews. One day they're going to be right. They just haven't been right so far, because we always manage - I don't mean to be conceited, but we always manage - to come up with the goods, and the public seem to like it and buy it. Then three years later the reviewers turn around and say, Yeah, that was a great album, after saying at the time, It was a load of old shit. Most of them did that with Exile, and came back and said it was probably one of the greatest albums or packages that the Stones had ever put out. So what? (laughs). I don't care what they say anymore.
- Bill Wyman, 1982


It's a wonderful record, but I wouldn't consider it the finest of the Rolling Stones' work. I think that Beggars Banquet and Let It Bleed were better records. They're more compressed. You know, when you put a double album out, there's always going to be something that could have been left off and would have made it maybe better. But, you know, Exile... its reputation just seems bigger now than it was back then. I remember it didn't sell well at the time, and there was only one single off it (sic). And we were still in this phase where we weren't really commercially minded; we weren't trying to exploit or wring dry the record like one would do now, with a lot of singles. I mean, we weren't really looking at the financial and commercial aspects of it. But the truth it, it wasn't a huge success at the time. It wasn't even critically well received. I think if you go back and look at the reviews, you'll see I'm right. It mostly got very indifferent reviews. And I love it now when all these critics say it was the most wonderful thing, because it's a lot of those same guys who, at the time, said it was crap! Anway, I think Exile lacked a bit of definition. I'm being supercritical, I know, but the record lacks a little focus.
- Mick Jagger, 1987


Then there's this:

I don't often play Stones stuff but if I see a copy of Exile hanging about, I nick it and play it. I still love that record very much. I would say there is the best of the Stones in there - up till now... I've no doubt that one day we'll put out an Exile outtakes album.
- Keith Richards, 2001

[timeisonourside.com]

The appreciation for new albums post whenever, 1989, has lessened in regard to the amount of time listened to compared to something older, most likely because a lot of albums got ridiculously long in length (EOMS isn't exactly long, it's 67 minutes, in regard from 1991 onward when something like BLOOD SUGAR SEX MAJIK is 74 minutes) or something by Soundgarden was in the 70s on average.

In this case, EXILE being old enough that, like THE BEATLES (basically 94 minutes long) and PHYSICAL GRAFFITI (84 minutes long), time has allotted, just like those albums and a few others, to become golden.

Maybe in 40 years a bunch of younger Stones fans will think BANG is one of their best.

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GasLightStreet

In this case, EXILE being old enough that, like THE BEATLES (basically 94 minutes long) and PHYSICAL GRAFFITI (84 minutes long), time has allotted, just like those albums and a few others, to become golden.

Maybe in 40 years a bunch of younger Stones fans will think BANG is one of their best.

I just think that ABB suffered a few too many tracks, it really wasn't double-album worthy, unlike Exile.

Sure you could always cull some tracks from Exile, but no one would be able to agree which 4 or 5 tracks, and by doing so it stops become a 'magic place' and instead is relegated to just being a 'great album'.

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treaclefingers

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GasLightStreet

In this case, EXILE being old enough that, like THE BEATLES (basically 94 minutes long) and PHYSICAL GRAFFITI (84 minutes long), time has allotted, just like those albums and a few others, to become golden.

Maybe in 40 years a bunch of younger Stones fans will think BANG is one of their best.

I just think that ABB suffered a few too many tracks, it really wasn't double-album worthy, unlike Exile.

Sure you could always cull some tracks from Exile, but no one would be able to agree which 4 or 5 tracks, and by doing so it stops become a 'magic place' and instead is relegated to just being a 'great album'.

There are some on EOMS I could do without.