I have seen shows all over Europe and in the US (Rolling Stones and other acts), but the worst-organized shows were the German shows. In some cases it seems like a miracle that no one got hurt. In most cases the problem was inadequate crowd control and lack of information outside of the venues before the shows. In several cases there were no barriers/wavebreakers outside of the entrances, people were pressed up against the doors and were pushed inside from behind once the doors opened and were then manhandled for "gatecrashing" while others ran past the panicking venue staff without being checked at all. It's not the same at every venue and in every town (Düsseldorf always seems to be OK), but that's the general impression.

Nothing worse than messing up entry to a concert. This one sounds bad, likely exceeded only by the 2017 Paris ‘No Filter Pit’ debacle when the arena staff translated that to ‘No Pit Access’. The mind boggles.

In Detroit I lined up for hours for the Pit, only to be given the wrong wristband which, in my haste, I didn’t notice. Showing my electronic ticket and explaining it was a mistake had no effect. It took hours to sort (at least I was there early) and I was way at the back which, normally, would be great, but I’m short and, having waited in the cold for hours, I was pretty grouchy about it.

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MrEcho
I have seen shows all over Europe and in the US (Rolling Stones and other acts), but the worst-organized shows were the German shows. In some cases it seems like a miracle that no one got hurt. In most cases the problem was inadequate crowd control and lack of information outside of the venues before the shows. In several cases there were no barriers/wavebreakers outside of the entrances, people were pressed up against the doors and were pushed inside from behind once the doors opened and were then manhandled for "gatecrashing" while others ran past the panicking venue staff without being checked at all. It's not the same at every venue and in every town (Düsseldorf always seems to be OK), but that's the general impression.

interestingly it worked well in Berlin in 2018 – very surprising since unusually nothing works in Berlin

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SomeTorontoGirl
Nothing worse than messing up entry to a concert. This one sounds bad, likely exceeded only by the 2017 Paris ‘No Filter Pit’ debacle when the arena staff translated that to ‘No Pit Access’. The mind boggles.

In Detroit I lined up for hours for the Pit, only to be given the wrong wristband which, in my haste, I didn’t notice. Showing my electronic ticket and explaining it was a mistake had no effect. It took hours to sort (at least I was there early) and I was way at the back which, normally, would be great, but I’m short and, having waited in the cold for hours, I was pretty grouchy about it.

Yeah. It was a mixture of good intentions and bad @#$%& ups.

Entrance was supposed to be at 17:00. Pushed back to 18:00, due to bad weather. Shortly before the bad weather started, at around 16:30 we, waiting at the general entrance, were told that if we want, we could enter the stadium, to wait inside under the roof, right at the entrance to the pit. So I went there. Some still choose to wait outside, I don't know why.

So the next 1,5 hours were quite comfortable and dry. Then they opened the doors, everywhere at the same time, good for us as we already were inside and had a headstart towards the people who still waited outside. So we ran down to the field to the Silver Pit entrance, showed the ticket and were told, we couldn't enter, we need a wrist band (WTF? I have my danmn ticket which says Silver pit). Okay, wristband, where? Ooh, over there, from the guy who's standing in the seperation aisle between silver pit and regular pit and acts like he has nothing to do with it all. So I ran over there and only when I asked him for the wristband he slowly pulled out his box from under his coat, kinda surprised anyone would ask him for a wristband. So I ran back to the other guy I was at before and showed him the wristband and he's like "But it only says pit, not silver pit." AAARGH. I tell him that's what I've gotten, show him my ticket, which is beginning to incinerate in the rain, and tell him, here it says silver pit and he's like "Where?". Doooh!!!!

Can't they brief their @#$%& people what to do beforehand and show damn what a damn ticket looks like and what has to be written on it where?? For 1 and half hours when we were standing at the entrance to the pit, no one told us we need a wristband (they told us lots of stuff though, but apperantly no one told them how it was gonna be). And really, usually you show your ticket when going in and only get a wristband when leaving to use the toilet. Why do they always behave like it's the first concert and always stray from what's the norm?

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ThinAir
Yes, it was a disaster. but i guess this is the problem of bands/crew staying inside a bubble and thus not being able to recognize such problems.

and it's the local promotor to blame for opening one hour late and only having one open window to pick up tickets.

Well, the local promoter had no chance than to open later. And it's hardly the job of the band to ensure things go smooth. But then again, some bands/crews manage to have so called roll calls at every show they go, like U2 and Bruce Springsteen, which is a totally voluntary thing, which I really wonder everytime, how that really works, but something like Lucky Dips is a problem. But then again, Lucky Dip people pay a fraction of what everybody else pays for their tickets, so maybe they shouldn't expect that much. You pay less, you have to accept that some things are not up to par. It's not like the Lucky Dippers have bought the VIP experience, who had their grieves too, as they couldn't find the early entry and were pretty upset and panicky seeing us wait inside already.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2022-06-06 16:07 by PatrickS77.

To say you shouldn’t expect that much because you payed less is a bit harsh to say it friendly. It is still a lot of money. And organization still make money of it…. It was just very poor organized. They knew exactly how many tickets are sold. They could have counted out how many time it should took to hand out the tickets. The fact they opened a hour and 40 minutes and only opening the second counter after 20.00 o’clock or something didn’t help at al.
So far for German “gründlichkeit”

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Christiaan
To say you shouldn’t expect that much because you payed less is a bit harsh to say it friendly. It is still a lot of money. And organization still make money of it…. It was just very poor organized. They knew exactly how many tickets are sold. They could have counted out how many time it should took to hand out the tickets. The fact they opened a hour and 40 minutes and only opening the second counter after 20.00 o’clock or something didn’t help at al.
So far for German “gründlichkeit”

60 € is not a lot of money. It's by far the cheapest you could spend and end up with the most expensive ones which cost almost 10 times as much. Obviously, ideally you should get the ticket in time, but the rain situation most likely screwed everything up. There was even talks of the possibility that the show wouldn't happen due to weather. It was not the normal situation.

No Patrick no.

Its not “ideally you get your ticket on time” its an obligation of the organisers to make sure you have you ticket in time. Missing parts of the show (stones show!) because of bad organisation is 100% unacceptable. Rain is no excuse, even without rain there would be the same problems.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-06-06 23:36 by PaintMonkeyManBlack.

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PaintMonkeyManBlack
Rain is no excuse, even without rain there would be the same problems.

Well, you don't know that, do you? Due to rain, just like entrance, they opened LD over an hour late. Everyone should have gotten their tix in time, had they opened on time. When people line up at the wrong place, it's not their fault. If some wait until last minute, coupled with the bad weather delay, some are bound to be late. Some got their tix in time.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-06-06 17:46 by PatrickS77.

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PatrickS77

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PaintMonkeyManBlack
Rain is no excuse, even without rain there would be the same problems.

Well, you don't know that, do you? Due to rain, just like entrance, they opened LD over an hour late. Everyone should have gotten their tix in time, had they opened on time. When people line up at the wrong place, it's not their fault. If some wait until last minute, coupled with the bad weather delay, some are bound to be late. Some got their tix in time.

I do know this. Because no rain would have opened the lucky dip 1 hour earlier, and I can tell you that Topi got his LD after missing 2 songs, and the line behind him was intense. So yes, no rain would have spared some people trouble. But still it would have taken hours and people missing parts of the show due to bad organisation.

It was very preventable really. They know how many LD there are sold, and they know how much time it takes. It's not the first time they do this. One counter will be garantued problems. Also they didn't need to wait handing out LD's at 17h. There just is no good reason.

Even at the spot they could have speed up the process by stop checking CC and ID and skipping the irrelevant wristbands. Not ideal, but if you have a situation like this you need someone who can decisions to solve things. And yesterday I was searching, asking and looking for someone who could help but everybody just shrug their shoulders and saying they can't help it.

PS: I was there at 17.10 and got my tickets 20.30. That's NOT turning up late, and I was in the right cue.

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PaintMonkeyManBlack

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PatrickS77

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PaintMonkeyManBlack
Rain is no excuse, even without rain there would be the same problems.

Well, you don't know that, do you? Due to rain, just like entrance, they opened LD over an hour late. Everyone should have gotten their tix in time, had they opened on time. When people line up at the wrong place, it's not their fault. If some wait until last minute, coupled with the bad weather delay, some are bound to be late. Some got their tix in time.

I do know this. Because no rain would have opened the lucky dip 1 hour earlier, and I can tell you that Topi got his LD after missing 2 songs, and the line behind him was intense. So yes, no rain would have spared some people trouble. But still it would have taken hours and people missing parts of the show due to bad organisation.

It was very preventable really. They know how many LD there are sold, and they know how much time it takes. It's not the first time they do this. One counter will be garantued problems. Also they didn't need to wait handing out LD's at 17h. There just is no good reason.

Even at the spot they could have speed up the process by stop checking CC and ID and skipping the irrelevant wristbands. Not ideal, but if you have a situation like this you need someone who can decisions to solve things. And yesterday I was searching, asking and looking for someone who could help but everybody just shrug their shoulders and saying they can't help it.

PS: I was there at 17.10 and got my tickets 20.30. That's NOT turning up late, and I was in the right cue.

Without the rain they would have opened 2 hours earlier, so tickets would have been given out come show time. The main problem was, that they were late in starting handing out the tix, no? And had there been no rain and people maybe shown up earlier, everything would have worked smoother. And I meant, people lining up in the Lucky Dip queue, who actually wanted to buy tix.

Unfortunately most of these people doing these jobs are temps, only do as they are instructed and don't really give a shit about what's practical and what not. They get paid either way.

Sorry but your information is wrong. Without rain they would open up at 17.00. Not 2 hours earlier. The main problem was they only had one counter for maybe 500 dips (1000 people). Every person needs to check ID, CC and get wristbands (2x). If this takes 30 seconds a time you need 250 minutes for everybody to get dips. Bad organisation was the main problem. Not the weather.

Also people in the LD queue who wanted to buy normal tickets where A. not a lot. And B. pretty sure they would find out they where in the wrong line before reaching the counter (after 3 hours). So they didn't add anything to the net waiting time for other people.

I agree what you are saying about temp workers. That's why I tried to talk to people with portophones. I am not thinking they can help themself. But when NOBODY can reach someone from the organisation it is just another case of bad organisation. You always need people onsite who can make decisions or at least can escalate problems.

Sorry to hear the LDs were bungled so badly. I’ve done LDs in Stockholm, Pittsburgh, Seattle, and L.A., and each time it went smoothly. If I recall right, they had a separate staff person to put the bracelets on us than the person giving us our tickets. One bonus of the bracelet was that the staff in some venues couldn’t differentiate (or didn’t care) between LD and Pit bracelets, and some folks walked into the pits even though they didn’t have pit tickets. This happened at Seattle and L.A. #1.

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PaintMonkeyManBlack
Sorry but your information is wrong. Without rain they would open up at 17.00. Not 2 hours earlier. The main problem was they only had one counter for maybe 500 dips (1000 people). Every person needs to check ID, CC and get wristbands (2x). If this takes 30 seconds a time you need 250 minutes for everybody to get dips. Bad organisation was the main problem. Not the weather.

Also people in the LD queue who wanted to buy normal tickets where A. not a lot. And B. pretty sure they would find out they where in the wrong line before reaching the counter (after 3 hours). So they didn't add anything to the net waiting time for other people.

I agree what you are saying about temp workers. That's why I tried to talk to people with portophones. I am not thinking they can help themself. But when NOBODY can reach someone from the organisation it is just another case of bad organisation. You always need people onsite who can make decisions or at least can escalate problems.

Yeah. You're right, but at least they would have openend 1 h 15 m earlier. Either way, it wasn't just down to poor organisation, but also poor weather and probably some uncertainty on whether the show will go ahead or not.

And as for your last paragraph, yes, but if you got bad people, who don't give a shit any organisation is @#$%& anyway. 2 weeks ago at a small club, a security got asked whether there will be food sold inside. She didn't know, but she did go check to give that person that information. One security in Munich was asked something, he shrugged and said, they didn't give us that information and that was that, instead of finding an answer to the question. So really, if the staff sucks and don't give a shit, any organisation will soon crumble.

A question to someone who knows. I was one of the people who did get in during Tumbling Dice after waiting for hours. It was the worst to hear the band start and you're still outside as a big fan.

Does anyone know where to write or who to write to avoid this happening again. I will also be at the Gelsenkirchen show and I don't wanna go through this ever again.

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Stonesfan2146
A question to someone who knows. I was one of the people who did get in during Tumbling Dice after waiting for hours. It was the worst to hear the band start and you're still outside as a big fan.

Does anyone know where to write or who to write to avoid this happening again. I will also be at the Gelsenkirchen show and I don't wanna go through this ever again.

Probably best to write to the tour promoter FKP Scorpio Konzertproduktionen GmbH, though I imagine the actual organisation on how to hand out tickets is done by local companies, so things will be different in Gelsenkirchen anyway, but in case it's not, since they are in charge of those 2 german concerts, I don't think you're wrong letting them know about your grievances and they have the power to make sure things got different in Gelsenkirchen or offer any compensation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-06-07 01:00 by PatrickS77.

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PatrickS77
60 € is not a lot of money. It's by far the cheapest you could spend and end up with the most expensive ones which cost almost 10 times as much. Obviously, ideally you should get the ticket in time, but the rain situation most likely screwed everything up. There was even talks of the possibility that the show wouldn't happen due to weather. It was not the normal situation.

It’s a lot of money if you book flights and hotels to be at a show and get in well after it starts. Not to mention the stress, and apparent lack of action or apology from the venue. I’d be grouchy as hell.

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SomeTorontoGirl

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PatrickS77
60 € is not a lot of money. It's by far the cheapest you could spend and end up with the most expensive ones which cost almost 10 times as much. Obviously, ideally you should get the ticket in time, but the rain situation most likely screwed everything up. There was even talks of the possibility that the show wouldn't happen due to weather. It was not the normal situation.

It’s a lot of money if you book flights and hotels to be at a show and get in well after it starts. Not to mention the stress, and apparent lack of action or apology from the venue. I’d be grouchy as hell.

For sure. But attending concerts for which you have to fly to and book a hotel is on you. That's not the responsibility of the promoter.

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PatrickS77

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SomeTorontoGirl

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PatrickS77
60 € is not a lot of money. It's by far the cheapest you could spend and end up with the most expensive ones which cost almost 10 times as much. Obviously, ideally you should get the ticket in time, but the rain situation most likely screwed everything up. There was even talks of the possibility that the show wouldn't happen due to weather. It was not the normal situation.

It’s a lot of money if you book flights and hotels to be at a show and get in well after it starts. Not to mention the stress, and apparent lack of action or apology from the venue. I’d be grouchy as hell.

For sure. But attending concerts for which you have to fly to and book a hotel is on you. That's not the responsibility of the promoter.

So they don't mind having a reputation of giving the audience a poor experience, as the flight & hotel is 'on them'? What does that have to do with it?

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treaclefingers

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PatrickS77

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SomeTorontoGirl

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PatrickS77
60 € is not a lot of money. It's by far the cheapest you could spend and end up with the most expensive ones which cost almost 10 times as much. Obviously, ideally you should get the ticket in time, but the rain situation most likely screwed everything up. There was even talks of the possibility that the show wouldn't happen due to weather. It was not the normal situation.

It’s a lot of money if you book flights and hotels to be at a show and get in well after it starts. Not to mention the stress, and apparent lack of action or apology from the venue. I’d be grouchy as hell.

For sure. But attending concerts for which you have to fly to and book a hotel is on you. That's not the responsibility of the promoter.

So they don't mind having a reputation of giving the audience a poor experience, as the flight & hotel is 'on them'? What does that have to do with it?

Nothing. That's why the argument, it's a lot of money if you book flights and hotels, is ridiculous. It has nothing to do with the gamble you took on buying a, compared to what you get and what others paid, dirt cheap ticket.

There's really no defending or rationalizing the inept idiocy in the way the Lucky Dip situation was handled in Munich. Sure there was the rain situation, but they could have gone over that possible scenario in the weeks/months leading up to the show date. While I would have made the most of it, I would have been pissed off stuck in a line while the show is starting without me in there. Whether I traveled from afar, or lived next door, and no matter how inexpensive the "Lucky" dips are...it downright sucks. Unless they add an asterisk to the LD option in the future: ***you might miss the first few songs***, then they should have these things properly sorted far in advance. Part of the experience of a show is entering the stadium ahead of time while adjusting to and admiring the overall vibe of the surroundings well before the show starts - some even like to see the opening act!
Again, I would have made the most of it and tried to overlook the problems having the best time possible, but that's a tough one to be stoic about and put on a happy face. And having to miss Street Fighting Man? GRRR.....

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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PatrickS77

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Stonesfan2146
A question to someone who knows. I was one of the people who did get in during Tumbling Dice after waiting for hours. It was the worst to hear the band start and you're still outside as a big fan.

Does anyone know where to write or who to write to avoid this happening again. I will also be at the Gelsenkirchen show and I don't wanna go through this ever again.

Probably best to write to the tour promoter FKP Scorpio Konzertproduktionen GmbH, though I imagine the actual organisation on how to hand out tickets is done by local companies, so things will be different in Gelsenkirchen anyway, but in case it's not, since they are in charge of those 2 german concerts, I don't think you're wrong letting them know about your grievances and they have the power to make sure things got different in Gelsenkirchen or offer any compensation.

That's a good idea. I will do so, thanks

Meh.. one badly handled situation doesn't translate to wholesale changes on a system that works very well indeed 95% + of the time.

Venue issue.. clearly, and fortunately an isolated incident.

Next monday I'm gonna see the Stones with Lucky Dip in Amsterdam. For me it's the first time i do LD. But do you get email or something with more confirmation about picking up the tickets at the venue??
Looking forward to see the Stones live again

Usually confirmation and details show up on your email one day before the concert.
I guess it was handled this way so far.

Good luck!

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Oriongalaxy
Usually confirmation and details show up on your email one day before the concert.
I guess it was handled this way so far.

Good luck!

Thanx for your answer! I really hope i'm lucky with my tickets

about the name changing thing on the LD's for Milan: I just got an email we can only do that on the day of the show at the ticket office.

Life's just a cocktail party on the street

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slewan
The LD pick up was badly organized for sure (it was much better at the same place in 2017), but Stuttgart 2018 was really dangerous and it's still a miracle to me that no bones were broken

Stuttgart in 2018 was great.
A nice Lady at the LD counter let me choose tickets in "Innenraum A5" seating. If you are friendly with a smile then you will get what ..... In Zürich 2017 I asked for and I got "PIT" from a nice friendly Lady at the LD Counter...



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2022-06-08 14:48 by satisfaction2.

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PatrickS77

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treaclefingers

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PatrickS77

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SomeTorontoGirl

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PatrickS77
60 € is not a lot of money. It's by far the cheapest you could spend and end up with the most expensive ones which cost almost 10 times as much. Obviously, ideally you should get the ticket in time, but the rain situation most likely screwed everything up. There was even talks of the possibility that the show wouldn't happen due to weather. It was not the normal situation.

It’s a lot of money if you book flights and hotels to be at a show and get in well after it starts. Not to mention the stress, and apparent lack of action or apology from the venue. I’d be grouchy as hell.

For sure. But attending concerts for which you have to fly to and book a hotel is on you. That's not the responsibility of the promoter.

So they don't mind having a reputation of giving the audience a poor experience, as the flight & hotel is 'on them'? What does that have to do with it?

Nothing. That's why the argument, it's a lot of money if you book flights and hotels, is ridiculous. It has nothing to do with the gamble you took on buying a, compared to what you get and what others paid, dirt cheap ticket.

What the devil are you talking about? You're not 'gambling' that you'll miss part of the show due to ineptitude as part of the arrangement. People buying LD's are willing to gamble poor seats, that's built in. Not missing the show or being treated shabbily.

You sound vaguely annoyed that people doing the LD route are being economical and sometimes get rewarded. You like anyone else can go that route.

But poor execution at this stage of the game, after doing LD's for a decade isn't acceptable.

"People buying LD's are willing to gamble poor seats, that's built in. Not missing the show or being treated shabbily".



If the chaos and confusion continues, they might consider changing the name of them to "Shabby Dips"...or "Crappy Dips"...

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

...or what was the name of that bootleg song? Dog Shit?