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Rockman
'cause they can't be THAT good...or can they?


Yeah man they are ...

Only the Stones can be that good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-05-24 11:36 by z.

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TravelinMan

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TheflyingDutchman

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TravelinMan

As a guitarist of many years, I do not find the Ron Wood era particularly interesting. I do not find it hard at all to copy Ron Wood and I don't really enjoy his lead guitar tones. Perhaps if I didn't play guitar, I would be more enamored by his playing.

All I can add is that after working for 25+ years as a professional guitar teacher, me and my colleagues never ever got a single question about Ron Wood's playing. Quite a lot of questions about Mick Taylor's or Keith Richard's playing though. But then also never questions about the late Allan Holdsworth either. ( I couldn't even answer them). Just a statistical message.

So it could very well be that both Allan Holdsworth and Ron Wood, just like Jimi Hendriks, were innovators and changed guitar playing forever.

You never getting questions about Hendrix is extremely hard to believe.

I do get. Just naming him here because just like Allan Holdsworth, he was an innovator.

I've just seen that El Mocambo has entered the Billboard 200 this week at No. 61. And for good measure, good ol' Hot Rocks has re-entered - again - at No. 186.

Many will point out, and quite validly too, that none of this is significant in terms of present day musical realities. Do the charts matter any more? Who cares anyway? How many sales does it take to reach the Top 200? and so on.

Well, yes, the numbers ARE small in terms of sales and streams. And few people care about the charts now. However, I submit that it does matter as it shows there is still a market, albeit small, out there for Stones-related material. Old and no-so-old. They do still have a place on the racks of the few record stores still operating. And just maybe the interest of enough music consumers will be sufficiently piqued to incentivise the band to release new material (gasp!)...

We can but hope, however small that hope might be!

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TheflyingDutchman

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TravelinMan

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TheflyingDutchman

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TravelinMan

As a guitarist of many years, I do not find the Ron Wood era particularly interesting. I do not find it hard at all to copy Ron Wood and I don't really enjoy his lead guitar tones. Perhaps if I didn't play guitar, I would be more enamored by his playing.

All I can add is that after working for 25+ years as a professional guitar teacher, me and my colleagues never ever got a single question about Ron Wood's playing. Quite a lot of questions about Mick Taylor's or Keith Richard's playing though. But then also never questions about the late Allan Holdsworth either. ( I couldn't even answer them). Just a statistical message.

So it could very well be that both Allan Holdsworth and Ron Wood, just like Jimi Hendriks, were innovators and changed guitar playing forever.

You never getting questions about Hendrix is extremely hard to believe.

I do get. Just naming him here because just like Allan Holdsworth, he was an innovator.

I don’t even think the brash Ron “I can play like Keith but he can’t play like me” Wood would compare himself to Hendrix lol

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z

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Rockman
'cause they can't be THAT good...or can they?


Yeah man they are ...

Only the Stones can be that good.

Haha, I don' t think rock and roll can be played any better than that. And this probably is not even the best Stones live release... Go figure...

- Doxa

From Billboard:

NEW ENTRIES
"The Rolling Stones’ live archival album, Live at the El Mocambo, debuts at No. 61 on Billboard 200 and No. 5 on Top Album Sales with nearly 12,000 units (a negligible sum from streams) nearly all from physical sales. The release chronicles two secret concerts the Stones staged at the El Mocambo club in Toronto in March of 1977. It includes the band’s full set from the March 5 show and three bonus tracks from the March 4 concert."

Weirdly, another track that sparkles for me is HTW - by then, it had become, for me anyway, kind of a lazy, meandering, unfocused party opener - good, but often lifeless. Here, it's tight but also somehow loose, intense, fat-free and an electrifying reminder as the night begins - "Yes, we are still the Rolling Stones."



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-05-24 17:03 by hbwriter.

I swear I'm losing it over this record...Charlie's driving of Hand of Fate - the steam engine of this crazy train - my eyes literally well with tears... I always thought I knew how much I loved this band... now I'm not so sure.

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hbwriter
Weirdly, another track that sparkles for me is HTW - by then, it had become, for me anyway, kind of a lazy, meandering, unfocused party opener - good, but often lifeless. Here, it's tight but also somehow loose, intense, fat-free and an electrifying reminder as the night begins - "Yes, we are still the Rolling Stones."

Great description, sums it perfectly for me. You should be a writer.

One other gush of emotion/realization for the morning - I keep trying to figure out why this record, beyond just the impressive performances, is affecting me as it is.

I think part of it is, we are hearing them shed one version of themselves as they prepare for a new stripped-down phase - the "untouchable yet out of touch" arena band is at a crossroads - and they are dealing with it. From this point on, the new phase truly starts- the Black and Blue auditions/experiments are done, the new form is taking shape and the Taylor-era is now firmly in the rear-view mirror.

I think I will listen to everything post-Macambo with fresh ears now - Mocambo is a "missing link" piece for me that really helps make sense of everything that followed. It's past, present and future -



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-05-24 18:20 by hbwriter.

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hbwriter
One other gush of emotion/realization for the morning - I keep trying to figure out why this record, beyond just the impressive performances, is affecting me as it is.

I think part of it is, we are hearing them shed one version of themselves as they prepare for a new stripped-down phase - the "untouchable yet out of touch" arena band is at a crossroads - and they are dealing with it. From this point on, the new phase truly starts- the Black and Blue auditions/experiments are done, the new form is taking shape and the Taylor-era is now firmly in the rear-view mirror.

I think I will listen to everything post-Macambo with fresh ears now - Mocambo is a "missing link" piece for me that really helps make sense of everything that followed.

That's an interesting take, hb.

two boxes of tissues later lol - my brain just won't shut down on this #Verklempt

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VoodooLounge13

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hbwriter
One other gush of emotion/realization for the morning - I keep trying to figure out why this record, beyond just the impressive performances, is affecting me as it is.

I think part of it is, we are hearing them shed one version of themselves as they prepare for a new stripped-down phase - the "untouchable yet out of touch" arena band is at a crossroads - and they are dealing with it. From this point on, the new phase truly starts- the Black and Blue auditions/experiments are done, the new form is taking shape and the Taylor-era is now firmly in the rear-view mirror.

I think I will listen to everything post-Macambo with fresh ears now - Mocambo is a "missing link" piece for me that really helps make sense of everything that followed.

That's an interesting take, hb.

The "missing link piece" thought is indeed interesting. For me it was like having "Love You Live" which felt a bit like a letdown, a bit too slick and uninspired after GYYYO apart from the Mocambo side and a (very) small handful of other tracks and next I remember, I was in a small record shop in London when suddenly the just-released 12" of Miss You was blasted over the speakers... "Uuuuh, it's the Stones!" Not exactly a fan of Disco Music, but this one I instantly liked. It sounded fresh, totally unexpected - Disco, yes, but with an undeniably bluesy flavour - "something has happened with my band!", a feeling that came to full fruition when the Some Girls album came out a bit later that now sounds like a natural progression from the energetic, stripped-down, back to the roots approach of El Mocambo.

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z

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Rockman
'cause they can't be THAT good...or can they?


Yeah man they are ...

Only the Stones can be that good.

On a rare occasion I do have my doubts, I must say. Especially during St. Louis, there seemed to be a guitar playing when neither Ronnie or Keef was. That got me thinking, and I just hope that is not the case.

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retired_dog

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VoodooLounge13

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hbwriter
One other gush of emotion/realization for the morning - I keep trying to figure out why this record, beyond just the impressive performances, is affecting me as it is.

I think part of it is, we are hearing them shed one version of themselves as they prepare for a new stripped-down phase - the "untouchable yet out of touch" arena band is at a crossroads - and they are dealing with it. From this point on, the new phase truly starts- the Black and Blue auditions/experiments are done, the new form is taking shape and the Taylor-era is now firmly in the rear-view mirror.

I think I will listen to everything post-Macambo with fresh ears now - Mocambo is a "missing link" piece for me that really helps make sense of everything that followed.

That's an interesting take, hb.

The "missing link piece" thought is indeed interesting. For me it was like having "Love You Live" which felt a bit like a letdown, a bit too slick and uninspired after GYYYO apart from the Mocambo side and a (very) small handful of other tracks and next I remember, I was in a small record shop in London when suddenly the just-released 12" of Miss You was blasted over the speakers... "Uuuuh, it's the Stones!" Not exactly a fan of Disco Music, but this one I instantly liked. It sounded fresh, totally unexpected - Disco, yes, but with an undeniably bluesy flavour - "something has happened with my band!", a feeling that came to full fruition when the Some Girls album came out a bit later that now sounds like a natural progression from the energetic, stripped-down, back to the roots approach of El Mocambo.

nice!

Indeed, there is something about the playing on this show that reminds me of the 78 tour. And there has always been something about they playing on that tour that reminds of GYYO. It's like they were returning to form.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-05-24 21:53 by ryanpow.

Was Keith singing in that show? There's some vocal sections where there's more than Mick and Billy.
It's been a long time since I was truly exhilirated by a Stones release. I been listening to Mocambo non stop, and I know this is the greatest rockn roll band ever.
I wish that the the twins had given Bill Wyman so much more recognition. His playing is so inspired. You can tell when he is kind of entertaining himself in parts of 'Hot Stuff' e.g. What is innate in his playing throughout, is that he knuckles down immediately whenever there is a solo. When he knows Ron or Keith are taking off, he locks down the basement.

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ryanpow
Indeed, there is something about the playing on this show that reminds me of the 78 tour. And there has always been something about they playing on that tour that reminds of GYYO. It's like they were returning to form.

They were as good if notbetter in 1972 1973 and 1975 than1969 or 1977.There was no form they needed to return to

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Taylor1

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ryanpow
Indeed, there is something about the playing on this show that reminds me of the 78 tour. And there has always been something about they playing on that tour that reminds of GYYO. It's like they were returning to form.

They were as good if notbetter in 1972 1973 and 1975 than1969 or 1977.There was no form they needed to return to

uhhh.... oh yeah? ....Joking aside, when I say return to form, I mean its a kind of stripped down, getting back to their roots vibe I get. Without putting a judgment on it one way or the other.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-05-25 01:09 by ryanpow.

I thought the same thing in St. Louis.

There were times "where did that note come from"

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VoodooLounge13

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z

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Rockman
'cause they can't be THAT good...or can they?


Yeah man they are ...

Only the Stones can be that good.

On a rare occasion I do have my doubts, I must say. Especially during St. Louis, there seemed to be a guitar playing when neither Ronnie or Keef was. That got me thinking, and I just hope that is not the case.

Wow, that's "puff of smoke on the grassy knoll", stuff. Can you lead us to any specific time points where these mystery notes can be heard, but not seen? I was there and didn't have any similar thoughts, but I was oblivious to anything but life affirming joy, so absolutely not doubting you guys, just looking for clarification.

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georgemcdonnell314
I thought the same thing in St. Louis.

There were times "where did that note come from"

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VoodooLounge13

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z

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Rockman
'cause they can't be THAT good...or can they?


Yeah man they are ...

Only the Stones can be that good.

On a rare occasion I do have my doubts, I must say. Especially during St. Louis, there seemed to be a guitar playing when neither Ronnie or Keef was. That got me thinking, and I just hope that is not the case.

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shawnriffhard1
Wow, that's "puff of smoke on the grassy knoll", stuff. Can you lead us to any specific time points where these mystery notes can be heard, but not seen? I was there and didn't have any similar thoughts, but I was oblivious to anything but life affirming joy, so absolutely not doubting you guys, just looking for clarification.

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georgemcdonnell314
I thought the same thing in St. Louis.

There were times "where did that note come from"

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VoodooLounge13

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z

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Rockman
'cause they can't be THAT good...or can they?


Yeah man they are ...

Only the Stones can be that good.

On a rare occasion I do have my doubts, I must say. Especially during St. Louis, there seemed to be a guitar playing when neither Ronnie or Keef was. That got me thinking, and I just hope that is not the case.

Could have been Chuck who has been known to cover and/or enhance Keith's riffs occasionally with his synth/keyboards. I recall seeing Little T&A in the past, and the opening "guitar" riff was 99% Chuck.
It sucked the purity out of the tune as it sounded artificial and soulless, and it was all very deceiving...almost as bad as lip synching really, but instead of vocals it was Chuck mimicking Keith's guitar parts.
I'd rather see and hear a dilapidated sloppy riff played solely by Keith vs. a faux sounding riff enhanced by the smoke and mirrors of Chuck, but unfortunately this artificiality is what it has become more often than not.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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ryanpow

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Taylor1

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ryanpow
Indeed, there is something about the playing on this show that reminds me of the 78 tour. And there has always been something about they playing on that tour that reminds of GYYO. It's like they were returning to form.

They were as good if notbetter in 1972 1973 and 1975 than1969 or 1977.There was no form they needed to return to

uhhh.... oh yeah? ....Joking aside, when I say return to form, I mean its a kind of stripped down, getting back to their roots vibe I get. Without putting a judgment on it one way or the other.

Fine,that assumes stripped down means no Bobby Keys or Jim Price as was the case in 1969 means they were back to their roots.1975 was the same band as 1977 one show.How were they stripped down in1977 and not1975.Same exact band.And to go back to their roots they would need Brian to replace Wood.

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Hairball

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shawnriffhard1
Wow, that's "puff of smoke on the grassy knoll", stuff. Can you lead us to any specific time points where these mystery notes can be heard, but not seen? I was there and didn't have any similar thoughts, but I was oblivious to anything but life affirming joy, so absolutely not doubting you guys, just looking for clarification.

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georgemcdonnell314
I thought the same thing in St. Louis.

There were times "where did that note come from"

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VoodooLounge13

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z

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Rockman
'cause they can't be THAT good...or can they?


Yeah man they are ...

Only the Stones can be that good.

On a rare occasion I do have my doubts, I must say. Especially during St. Louis, there seemed to be a guitar playing when neither Ronnie or Keef was. That got me thinking, and I just hope that is not the case.

Could have been Chuck who has been known to cover and/or enhance Keith's riffs occasionally with his synth/keyboards. I recall seeing Little T&A in the past, and the opening "guitar" riff was 99% Chuck.
It sucked the purity out of the tune as it sounded artificial and soulless, and it was all very deceiving...almost as bad as lip synching really, but instead of vocals it was Chuck mimicking Keith's guitar parts.
I'd rather see and hear a dilapidated sloppy riff played solely by Keith vs. a faux sounding riff enhanced by the smoke and mirrors of Chuck, but unfortunately this artificiality is what it has become more often than not.

Yes, I completely agree. Please give me sloppy, messy, ramshackle, BUT REAL, Keith riff any day to a rinky-dinky synth-y Chuck-y keyboard fill. Ugh! The Stones were always somewhat ragged. That is what made them great. An artificially propped-up mocked-up version of the band is something I certainly can do without.

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Taylor1

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ryanpow

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Taylor1

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ryanpow
Indeed, there is something about the playing on this show that reminds me of the 78 tour. And there has always been something about they playing on that tour that reminds of GYYO. It's like they were returning to form.

They were as good if notbetter in 1972 1973 and 1975 than1969 or 1977.There was no form they needed to return to

uhhh.... oh yeah? ....Joking aside, when I say return to form, I mean its a kind of stripped down, getting back to their roots vibe I get. Without putting a judgment on it one way or the other.

Fine,that assumes stripped down means no Bobby Keys or Jim Price as was the case in 1969 means they were back to their roots.1975 was the same band as 1977 one show.How were they stripped down in1977 and not1975.Same exact band.And to go back to their roots they would need Brian to replace Wood.

Troll Toll.

I think "stripped down" refers to the environment, mood and vibe-- coming off of two years of shows that started with the trumpets heralding Fanfare for Common Man- the excess- the battleship size stages- the ATTITUDE was stripped down- and it shows in the brilliance of the performances

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hbwriter
I think "stripped down" refers to the environment, mood and vibe-- coming off of two years of shows that started with the trumpets heralding Fanfare for Common Man- the excess- the battleship size stages- the ATTITUDE was stripped down- and it shows in the brilliance of the performances

1975 was great and so were the performances.The Stones were never better than in 1972 and1973 as Bill Wyman says

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hbwriter
I think "stripped down" refers to the environment, mood and vibe-- coming off of two years of shows that started with the trumpets heralding Fanfare for Common Man- the excess- the battleship size stages- the ATTITUDE was stripped down- and it shows in the brilliance of the performances

Yes, this. There's also something in the playing, like on Route 66 for example. It reminds me of how they played Chuck Berry type stuff in 69 and 78. To my ears.

This is an absolute treasure of a release, no doubt. Enjoy!

The Stones were peaking all over this release. They have had other peaks, but if El Mo isn’t the epitome of rock n roll, I don’t know what is.