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Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: April 2, 2022 21:10

Quote
Testify
You are making a fool of me ? (Am I? That's up to you.)

In BAB he was actually Crazy Mama and not MM.
[en.wikipedia.org]
(Okay, you go by Wikipedia for Memory Motel. I go by the handwritten credit notes on the actual album.)
(I just went and checked Wikipedia's entries for Black and Blue, and Memory Motel. It says Bill played bass on every cut on Black and Blue except Crazy Mama.)


Also in Fingerprint File Bill he does not play bass, but he is at the synthesizer. (No one said he wasn't.)

If you notice in some of those songs, the bass is essential, which is why I was always amazed that it wasn't Bill who played it. (Not many. Emotional Rescue, Sympathy comes to mind. The overwhelming amount of Stones songs where the bass is essential are Bill.)

I remember that on the 75/76 tour on Fingerprint File, Bill gave the bass to Ronnie even during concerts, although the original bass was by Mick Taylor. (Yes, so that Bill could move over onto synthesizer, which he played on the studio cut.)

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: vertigojoe ()
Date: April 3, 2022 12:43

With most of these song I didn't even know it was not Bill. Although I love stuff that Bill did it shows that he was quite easy to replace.[/quote]

Yet despite it being easy they still haven’t found a decent replacement 30 years on.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: StonedRambler ()
Date: April 3, 2022 14:25

Quote
vertigojoe
With most of these song I didn't even know it was not Bill. Although I love stuff that Bill did it shows that he was quite easy to replace.

Yet despite it being easy they still haven’t found a decent replacement 30 years on.[/quote]
I think Darryl is amazing. He hadn't played with Miles Davis if he wasn't and Charlie had not chosen him if he wasn't. Some people will always find reasons to complain though.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: April 3, 2022 15:16

Quote
StonedRambler

I think Darryl is amazing. He hadn't played with Miles Davis if he wasn't and Charlie had not chosen him if he wasn't.

Jones certainly can do things Bill couldn't but the essential is : can a jazz bassist become a good rock bassist? Imo you can't.
That's the irony here : despite his technical limitations Bill had sth in his playing Darryl will never have.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: StonedRambler ()
Date: April 3, 2022 15:20

Quote
dcba
Quote
StonedRambler

I think Darryl is amazing. He hadn't played with Miles Davis if he wasn't and Charlie had not chosen him if he wasn't.

Jones certainly can do things Bill couldn't but the essential is : can a jazz bassist become a good rock bassist? Imo you can't.
I certainly know a Jazz drummer who became one of the greatest rock drummers.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: April 3, 2022 16:11

Me too but that's an exception.
Imo the Darryl vs Bill controversy is talent vs skills. Bill had a totally unique talent (magnified 100 fold with CW) while DJ has considerable skills.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: April 4, 2022 13:35

The endless debate between Bill Wyman and Daryl Jones bass playing . There is no comparison as far as the sound and groove and beat / foundation in the rhythm section along with the Great Charlie Watts . For me Wyman bass sound was bigger than life and such a thumping powerful bass in the lower register of the tonal spectrum . Now having said that there is no denying the virtuoso skills of Daryl Jones bass . In 1994 during the Voodoo Lounge tour , the one and only Stones tour where he actually got to cut it loose and it was such a funky jazzy groove laid down with a decent mix/volume in the sound mix . Too bad it was gone the next time during the B2B Tour , as he played as if in the studio reading off sheet music and I don't want to say stiff sound but it lacked any imagination or color . It was as he was "told" exactly what notes to play and when and how to play them as well along with the sound engineer being instructed to keep the bass sound barely audible in the over all sound mix . Too darn bad as to have such a skillful musician / artist and to have him physically restrained and his hands tied as to what and when he could play it ! Too bad Chuck has much more artistic freedom than Daryl does , and no disrespect to Chuck as he is a master of the keyboard as well . For me Daryl is a talent wasted in the Stones and his virtuoso skills are sidelined from the Stones .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-04-04 13:38 by TheGreek.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Date: April 4, 2022 13:50

Excellent post. thumbs up

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: illyad1960 ()
Date: April 4, 2022 13:52

Stones celebrating 60 years. Wyman hasn't been a member of Stones for almost 30 years. So...Bill really hasn't been a Stone for 60 years. Half that time. When the Stones celebrated #50, he had been departed for almost 20 yrs. Stones were generous then in letting him participate in events surrounding #50. No need to express that sort of generosity this time around for #60 but his face and or likeness should have in the El Mocambo set. Was there, and did that.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Date: April 4, 2022 13:57

<Bill really hasn't been a Stone for 60 years>

That's a stretch smiling smiley

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: rollmops ()
Date: April 4, 2022 14:08

Quote
TheGreek
The endless debate between Bill Wyman and Daryl Jones bass playing . There is no comparison as far as the sound and groove and beat / foundation in the rhythm section along with the Great Charlie Watts . For me Wyman bass sound was bigger than life and such a thumping powerful bass in the lower register of the tonal spectrum . Now having said that there is no denying the virtuoso skills of Daryl Jones bass . In 1994 during the Voodoo Lounge tour , the one and only Stones tour where he actually got to cut it loose and it was such a funky jazzy groove laid down with a decent mix/volume in the sound mix . Too bad it was gone the next time during the B2B Tour , as he played as if in the studio reading off sheet music and I don't want to say stiff sound but it lacked any imagination or color . It was as he was "told" exactly what notes to play and when and how to play them as well along with the sound engineer being instructed to keep the bass sound barely audible in the over all sound mix . Too darn bad as to have such a skillful musician / artist and to have him physically restrained and his hands tied as to what and when he could play it ! Too bad Chuck has much more artistic freedom than Daryl does , and no disrespect to Chuck as he is a master of the keyboard as well . For me Daryl is a talent wasted in the Stones and his virtuoso skills are sidelined from the Stones .
It is a very interesting point of view but is the "restraint" self-imposed or told? I believe Darryl decides for himself that is in the context of the stones'music changing as the stones are themselves moving on the age spectrum.
Rockandroll,
Mops

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: dcba ()
Date: April 4, 2022 14:33

Quote
TheGreek
For me Daryl is a talent wasted in the Stones and his virtuoso skills are sidelined from the Stones .

They don't shine that much during his solo spot in the middle of "Miss You" do they?

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: April 4, 2022 15:47

Quote
TheGreek
The endless debate between Bill Wyman and Daryl Jones bass playing . There is no comparison as far as the sound and groove and beat / foundation in the rhythm section along with the Great Charlie Watts . For me Wyman bass sound was bigger than life and such a thumping powerful bass in the lower register of the tonal spectrum . Now having said that there is no denying the virtuoso skills of Daryl Jones bass . In 1994 during the Voodoo Lounge tour , the one and only Stones tour where he actually got to cut it loose and it was such a funky jazzy groove laid down with a decent mix/volume in the sound mix . Too bad it was gone the next time during the B2B Tour , as he played as if in the studio reading off sheet music and I don't want to say stiff sound but it lacked any imagination or color . It was as he was "told" exactly what notes to play and when and how to play them as well along with the sound engineer being instructed to keep the bass sound barely audible in the over all sound mix . Too darn bad as to have such a skillful musician / artist and to have him physically restrained and his hands tied as to what and when he could play it ! Too bad Chuck has much more artistic freedom than Daryl does , and no disrespect to Chuck as he is a master of the keyboard as well . For me Daryl is a talent wasted in the Stones and his virtuoso skills are sidelined from the Stones .
When I heard him live during the Voodoo Lounge Tour I wasn’t impressed. He lacks something

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: Cooltoplady ()
Date: April 4, 2022 16:04

Good riddance Bill. Glad your gone

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: liddas ()
Date: April 4, 2022 16:32

Unfortunately I got to see Bill only in 1990. From memory (and boots) bass was mixed the same way then and now with DJ. In fact at the 2012 02 arena concert in London bass was so powerful that it made my balls bounce!

I don't think that there is such a thing as a "rock" bassist or a "jazz" bassist. DJ doesn't plat Jazz with the Stones, but he has a different approach than Bill. No big surprise, Bill and DJ have different backgrounds, ages and tastes. Of course DJ's freedom is a little limited by the fact that a good number of songs in the set list have certain bass lines that are "obbligati", you cannot miss them. In any case, DJ's style with the stones is not so far away from Drayton's, so I think Keith likes it.

Back to the ElMocambo now!

can't wait!

C

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: April 4, 2022 17:15

Bill was a time shifter.

Darryl is a time keeper.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: April 4, 2022 18:35

Quote
liddas

I don't think that there is such a thing as a "rock" bassist or a "jazz" bassist. DJ doesn't plat Jazz with the Stones, but he has a different approach than Bill.

Bill in 2015 about Darryl: "Two days later I went to the O2 for the soundcheck. I had to use his [Jones’s] amplifier and he plays completely differently from me. He plays with his fingers, hard, I play with my thumb, lightly. I didn’t have time to check out his amp settings." - [www.TheTimes.co.uk] , [iorr.org] .

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: April 4, 2022 18:52

A drum machine can keep time better than any drummer.But where’s the magic.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: deeeskannnie ()
Date: April 4, 2022 18:53

Quote
GasLightStreet
Bill was a time shifter.

Darryl is a time keeper.

That is very, véry well said. thumbs up

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: April 4, 2022 19:19

Quote
dcba
Quote
TheGreek
For me Daryl is a talent wasted in the Stones and his virtuoso skills are sidelined from the Stones .

They don't shine that much during his solo spot in the middle of "Miss You" do they?
The one and only nod that he gets .

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: April 4, 2022 23:07

Yes, Darryl lacks something. Maybe he quit playing like Bill after Voodoo Lounge, but what did he replace it with? A meandering, emotionless playing that does nothing to enhance the sound. Bill wasn't afraid to assert his playing and could lead the band, or gather it when it was wobbling too far.

I can think of Bill bass lines that are absolutely essential, and memorable. Satisfaction, Under My Thumb, Miss You, Harlem Shuffle as examples. His live playing on Live With Me and Long Black Limousine really stand out. I can't think of one Stones song in 30 years where Darryl adds one note of emotion to a song. One note of humor.

Sure, Bill's been gone for half of the Stones' career. But what does Darryl's magnificent, unprecedented genius jazz playing add up to on Stones records, or live? Zilch. And the overwhelming amount of songs on the Stones setlist are ones Bill created the bass line.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: Cooltoplady ()
Date: April 4, 2022 23:47

Quote
deeeskannnie
Quote
GasLightStreet
Bill was a time shifter.

Darryl is a time keeper.

That is very, véry well said. thumbs up

What a bunch of bull. I guess you guys never heard The Stones live

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: Spodlumt ()
Date: April 5, 2022 00:00

The Stones best years were with Bill and Charlie. Not a big fan of anything they have produced since 1994.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: schwonek ()
Date: April 5, 2022 00:39

Wait. I thought this was about the El Mocambo release? So OT.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Date: April 5, 2022 01:30

I thought the same thing but it looks like this has become another thread.


Quote
schwonek
Wait. I thought this was about the El Mocambo release? So OT.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: April 5, 2022 03:48

Quote
schwonek
Wait. I thought this was about the El Mocambo release? So OT.

Okay. I'll veer back into the right lane. I can't wait for El Mocambo so I can enjoy the real Rolling Stones rhythm section.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: Munichhilton ()
Date: April 5, 2022 04:10

Quote
24FPS
Yes, Darryl lacks something. Maybe he quit playing like Bill after Voodoo Lounge, but what did he replace it with? A meandering, emotionless playing that does nothing to enhance the sound. Bill wasn't afraid to assert his playing and could lead the band, or gather it when it was wobbling too far.

I can think of Bill bass lines that are absolutely essential, and memorable. Satisfaction, Under My Thumb, Miss You, Harlem Shuffle as examples. His live playing on Live With Me and Long Black Limousine really stand out. I can't think of one Stones song in 30 years where Darryl adds one note of emotion to a song. One note of humor.

Sure, Bill's been gone for half of the Stones' career. But what does Darryl's magnificent, unprecedented genius jazz playing add up to on Stones records, or live? Zilch. And the overwhelming amount of songs on the Stones setlist are ones Bill created the bass line.

Although I’m not certain, I think you may have only one ear and two noses…
Both are great bass players…incredibly so. Listen harder to the second half of life…

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: U2Stonesfan ()
Date: April 5, 2022 04:15

I look forward to I believe the first or second official live version of Crazy Mama?
[fb.watch]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-04-05 05:19 by U2Stonesfan.

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: TheGreek ()
Date: April 5, 2022 13:29

Quote
24FPS
Yes, Darryl lacks something. Maybe he quit playing like Bill after Voodoo Lounge, but what did he replace it with? A meandering, emotionless playing that does nothing to enhance the sound. Bill wasn't afraid to assert his playing and could lead the band, or gather it when it was wobbling too far.

I can think of Bill bass lines that are absolutely essential, and memorable. Satisfaction, Under My Thumb, Miss You, Harlem Shuffle as examples. His live playing on Live With Me and Long Black Limousine really stand out. I can't think of one Stones song in 30 years where Darryl adds one note of emotion to a song. One note of humor.

Sure, Bill's been gone for half of the Stones' career. But what does Darryl's magnificent, unprecedented genius jazz playing add up to on Stones records, or live? Zilch. And the overwhelming amount of songs on the Stones setlist are ones Bill created the bass line.
A point that we must remember is that Daryl Jones does not have a free reign to interpret the bass lines as he does answer and report to a supervisor ( Mick )who tells him what is expected of him in how he holds up the bottom . The Stones are not an improvisational outfit .

Re: The Rolling Stones Live at the El Mocambo
Posted by: marcovandereijk ()
Date: April 5, 2022 13:55

Quote
U2Stonesfan
I look forward to I believe the first or second official live version of Crazy Mama?

I guess so. It was played a couple of times during the No Security Tour, wasn't it?

Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away

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