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EddieByword

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Irix

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EddieByword

This is what I had always thought to be the origin of the 'tongue'..........Kali.........

Yes - but there're 1000+ depictions of Kali goddess since the year 600 - just have a look at Google Image Search - [www.Google.com] .

That's the version John Pasche saw (presented by Mick) in 1970:


[www.YouTube.com] - Pos. 3:25


John Pasche did this Kali doodle detail in 2020:

[Gramho.com] , [iorr.org]

Yeah, I know there's thousands of interpretations of Kali............bit like the Stones tongue nowadays ...........

I just picked two that I liked............Interesting to learn that's the exact one Mick showed John Pasche

... a bit like the Stones tongue nowadays ...

There is a famous interview with Keith Richards (a Rolling Stone magazine from 1972 with Keith on the front page). Keith also talks about the logo and says that it will change over time, etc. Well, maybe someone amongst us collected ALL (I only have a modest number) variations on the logo. Anyway Keith kept his word



I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

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georgie48

There is a famous interview with Keith Richards (a Rolling Stone magazine from 1971 with Keith on the front page). Keith also talks about the logo and says that it will change over time, etc.

Rolling Stone interview with Keith from August 19, 1971 - [www.RollingStone.com] :

"Especially now that we’ve got Rolling Stones records, with the Kali tongue ... nobody’s gotten into that yet, but that’s Kali, the Hindu female goddess. Five arms, a row of heads around her, a sabre in one hand, flames coming out the other, she stands there, with her tongue out. But that’s gonna change. That symbol’s not going to stay as it is. Sometimes it’ll take up the whole label, maybe slowly it’ll turn to a cock, I don’t know yet." Q: "You going to put two pills on the tongue?" A: "We’re going to do everything with it, slowly. Don’t want to let it grow stale. It’s growing change. Got to keep it growing."

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georgie48

Well, maybe someone amongst us collected ALL (I only have a modest number) variations on the logo.

The 'Rolling Stones Tongues' thread still tries that - [iorr.org] .



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-02-02 14:40 by Irix.

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Irix

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georgie48

There is a famous interview with Keith Richards (a Rolling Stone magazine from 1972 with Keith on the front page). Keith also talks about the logo and says that it will change over time, etc.

Rolling Stone interview with Keith from August 19, 1971 - [www.RollingStone.com] :

"Especially now that we’ve got Rolling Stones records, with the Kali tongue ... nobody’s gotten into that yet, but that’s Kali, the Hindu female goddess. Five arms, a row of heads around her, a sabre in one hand, flames coming out the other, she stands there, with her tongue out. But that’s gonna change. That symbol’s not going to stay as it is. Sometimes it’ll take up the whole label, maybe slowly it’ll turn to a cock, I don’t know yet."

Wow! Never seen that one before! HILARIOUS!

"maybe slowly it’ll turn to a cock, I don’t know yet".

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GasLightStreet

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Irix

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georgie48

There is a famous interview with Keith Richards (a Rolling Stone magazine from 1972 with Keith on the front page). Keith also talks about the logo and says that it will change over time, etc.

Rolling Stone interview with Keith from August 19, 1971 - [www.RollingStone.com] :

"Especially now that we’ve got Rolling Stones records, with the Kali tongue ... nobody’s gotten into that yet, but that’s Kali, the Hindu female goddess. Five arms, a row of heads around her, a sabre in one hand, flames coming out the other, she stands there, with her tongue out. But that’s gonna change. That symbol’s not going to stay as it is. Sometimes it’ll take up the whole label, maybe slowly it’ll turn to a cock, I don’t know yet."

Wow! Never seen that one before! HILARIOUS!

You're not gonna believe Max, but even after 58 years I still from time to time read/see Stones stuff that I had never seen before. No time to get bored with the Stones
Thanks Irix for correcting the year into 1971. Sometimes I put some info down on memory ... and missed it by one year this time

I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

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Irix
John Pasche did the T&L-Logo first end of 1970 in London (UK) in the form of a rubber stamp used for Rolling Stones Records. Ernie Cefalu did his version in February 1971 in New York City - [iorr.org] .


[iorr.org]

"A group of 1970s Rolling Stones stationery pieces including a sheet of Rolling Stones Records letterhead with tongue logo; two nearly identical green envelopes with the London office address for the Rolling Stones, one with slightly larger font treatment; and an off-white envelope reading 'Rolling Stones European Tour 1970.' The pieces date between 1968 and 1971." -- BW #3267 LOT 247 - [www.JuliensLive.com]
(above quoted from your other post here: [iorr.org]



First off, re Pasche & Cefalu, I have no bias for or against either. I much prefer the "modern" version of the Tongue (which, I've learned here, looks remarkably like Alan Aldridge's illustration - a font of knowledge here @ iorr!). Still, I find this topic interesting/entertaining in terms of fact-finding and the passion it inspires among posters. I haven't read everything here, so apologies in advance for any redundant info.

Regarding the stationary items above, I see nothing that proves the sheet of paper w/ tongue stamp is definitively from 1970. The auction description states that the items above date between 1968-1971. The top and bottom envelopes on the left have a very formal, Beggars Banquet style cursive font. After "The Rolling Stones", I can't ascertain what is written on the top left envelope. The bottom left envelope reads, "The Rolling Stones European Tour 1970". Obviously, that one dates back to 1970. The sheet of paper w/ the tongue stamp looks quite different, design-wise. It has a handwritten font - very informal look & vibe, befitting the tongue stamp. The tongue design came after the 1970 tour poster design, so one might reasonably conclude that the letterhead on the right came after the 1970 European Tour envelope - but how long after?

Pasche himself says that he completed the 1970 Tour poster and then created the tongue logo the following year. [youtu.be]

“During my last year of college, this was basically my lucky break. The Stones called the college and asked for a student to be sent along to talk to Mick Jagger about doing a touring poster. Luckily, I was sent along. The meeting went well and this is what I produced for that (Pasche refers to projected slide depicting his 1970 tour poster). Then, the following year, that was followed up by another request to go and meet with Jagger to talk about a logo for what was going to be their new label – the new record label and for letterheads and so on”. - John Pasche, quoted from youtube video, starting @ 43 seconds [youtu.be]

The Letter from the RS office, dated 29 April 1970, confirms that he'd been asked to design the 1970 poster as well as a logo. Obviously, the poster was created in 1970 and Pasche says that he designed the logo the following year. Therefore, if Pasche's own timeline is to be believed, his version of the logo would have been created in 1971.

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Plink

Regarding the stationary items above, I see nothing that proves the sheet of paper w/ tongue stamp is definitively from 1970.

Bill Wyman or Marshall Chess will (have to) find a letter of RSR in their archives with date (hopefully from end of 1970) that proves the sheet of paper with the tongue stamp is definitively from 1970.

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Plink

Therefore, if Pasche's own timeline is to be believed, his version of the logo would have been created in 1971.

The tongue-stamp by John Pasche existed before it was faxed over from London (UK) to NYC and re-drawn by Craig Braun Inc. Ernie Cefalu worked on his tongue-version from the beginning of February 1971 until the end of February 1971. And the Sticky Fingers Album was released on April 23, 1971. But John Pasche might have finalized his Sticky-Fingers-version in 1971. John Pasche's tongue-stamp and his Sticky-Fingers-version are different in design.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2022-02-06 22:30 by Irix.

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Irix

Bill Wyman or Marshall Chess will (have to) find a letter of RSR in their archives with date (hopefully from end of 1970) that proves the sheet of paper with the tongue stamp is definitively from 1970.

Is there a solid lead that such letters exist in Chess' or Wyman's collections? I've read most of the posts but must have missed this bit (apologies).

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Irix

The tongue-stamp by John Pasche existed before it was faxed over from London (UK) to NYC and re-drawn by Craig Braun Inc. Ernie Cefalu worked on his tongue-version from the beginning of February 1971 until the end of February 1971. And the Sticky Fingers Album was released on April 23, 1971. But John Pasche might have finalized his Sticky-Fingers-version in 1971. John Pasche's tongue-stamp and his Sticky-Fingers-version are different in design.

Just my opinion, of course, but I don't think Pasche was referring to finalizing a pre-existing, circa 1970 tongue design when, after mentioning his 1970 tour poster design, he made this particular statement: "Then, the following year, that was followed up by another request to go and meet with Jagger to talk about a logo for what was going to be their new label – the new record label and for letterheads and so on". IMO, he was discussing how and when he came to create the logo.

Pasche's timeline and Craig Braun's don't necessarily conflict, imo. Pasche has said that his initial tongue design took 2 weeks to complete. Pure speculation, of course, but the possibility exists that Pasche designed his tongue in January 1971 and that it was faxed to Braun shortly thereafter, as you mention above.

In any event, I remain interested to see if anything will surface verifying that the Pasche Tongue was designed in 1970. Until then, I accept John Pasche's own timeline as to when he designed the logo.

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Plink

Is there a solid lead that such letters exist in Chess' or Wyman's collections?

Not yet. But when you look at Bill Wyman's Archive-Auction - (Sep 12-13, 2020) , [www.JuliensLive.com] - then you get the impression that Bill has collected every single receipt. So there's at least a chance that someday such a letter from Rolling Stones Records will surface.

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Plink

Pasche's timeline and Craig Braun's don't necessarily conflict, imo.

That's right. And Craig Braun said multiple times that he needed the logo John Pasche was still working on - [iorr.org] , [iorr.org] , [iorr.org] . Hence there was a logo by John Pasche before Craig Braun - as rubber-stamp for Rolling Stones Records or just as rough sketches.

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Plink

In any event, I remain interested to see if anything will surface verifying that the Pasche Tongue was designed in 1970.

Me too.

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Plink

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Irix

Bill Wyman or Marshall Chess will (have to) find a letter of RSR in their archives with date (hopefully from end of 1970) that proves the sheet of paper with the tongue stamp is definitively from 1970.

Is there a solid lead that such letters exist in Chess' or Wyman's collections? I've read most of the posts but must have missed this bit (apologies).

T

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Irix

The tongue-stamp by John Pasche existed before it was faxed over from London (UK) to NYC and re-drawn by Craig Braun Inc. Ernie Cefalu worked on his tongue-version from the beginning of February 1971 until the end of February 1971. And the Sticky Fingers Album was released on April 23, 1971. But John Pasche might have finalized his Sticky-Fingers-version in 1971. John Pasche's tongue-stamp and his Sticky-Fingers-version are different in design.

Just my opinion, of course, but I don't think Pasche was referring to finalizing a pre-existing, circa 1970 tongue design when, after mentioning his 1970 tour poster design, he made this particular statement: "Then, the following year, that was followed up by another request to go and meet with Jagger to talk about a logo for what was going to be their new label – the new record label and for letterheads and so on". IMO, he was discussing how and when he came to create the logo.

Pasche's timeline and Craig Braun's don't necessarily conflict, imo. Pasche has said that his initial tongue design took 2 weeks to complete. Pure speculation, of course, but the possibility exists that Pasche designed his tongue in January 1971 and that it was faxed to Braun shortly thereafter, as you mention above.

In any event, I remain interested to see if anything will surface verifying that the Pasche Tongue was designed in 1970. Until then, I accept John Pasche's own timeline as to when he designed the logo.

I help you out here, Irix (in fact we know already )
Pasche's rough tongue images were ready in October 1970 and discussed by the Stones and their Rolling Stones Records president Marshall Chess in October 1970 at the end of the European tour in ... Amsterdam. I was given this information directly by Marshall Chess. Chess, being impressed by the Shell Oil logo and thinking about a nameless logo, nice fitted in with that meeting where Pasche's input was discussed. We all know the beautiful result.

I suggest to you, Plink, that you read the links that Irix mentioned. It saves all a lot of repetition.



I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town