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Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: mosthigh ()
Date: January 3, 2022 00:51

I think they got plain sick of playing it and used the whole cancel culture thing as an excuse.

If they bow that easily to pressure, then maybe a petition should be started to get rid of all the un-pc warhorses. Could end up with a seriously revamped setlist.winking smiley

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: January 3, 2022 01:01

Maybe from now on they should just do full
concerts of Mop Top songs and throw out jelly babies ....



ROCKMAN

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Cooltoplady ()
Date: January 3, 2022 01:17

Keith really struggles with he intro. You have to cringe sometimes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-01-03 03:20 by Cooltoplady.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: January 3, 2022 01:20

HHhaaaa ... you should see me around daybreak ....



ROCKMAN

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: January 3, 2022 02:00

If it was fully out of their own volition that they stopped playing "Brown Sugar" live, that is fine with me. So very well!
If someone else, directly or indirectly, led them to the decision, I deeply regret it.
I do not want to say more.

In the former case, I will not myself miss it either. In fact, I would have liked all songs played live more than 25 times during the latest tour, according to the list presented in the post above, to be replaced by other songs. Do not misunderstand! Still I do like as much as everybody else to hear those songs on live albums from tours when they were quite recently released songs. That was the epoque when and where they belonged.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Shawn20 ()
Date: January 3, 2022 03:03

I agree with BV that they can play what they want. But for me, it's a personal loss. That's the song that turned me on to the Stones in 1971. It's not my favorite Rolling Stones' song - it's my favorite song. I also agreed with a previous poster than stated that 72 was the best live version. Yeah, yeah, yeah, woooooooh!

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: January 3, 2022 04:06

Maybe they don't need controversy anymore. It's just about some old pros raking in as much dough as they can before it all ends. They need as wide an audience as possible to pay the $235 average ticket price. Don't rock the boat, just feed 'em the hits, get on the plane, count the receipts. At this point it might be politically incorrect, and a bit creepy, to have a group of almost 80-year-old white men lusting after young black slave girls.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Paddy ()
Date: January 3, 2022 09:36

I like BS, but having caught it live a bunch of times and there being plenty of live footage of the tune I’m ok with them dropping it for a tour. It’ll likely be played again at some point.

But play Jigsaw Puzzle instead. grinning smiley

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: calipachangero ()
Date: January 3, 2022 10:58

I'm sure it will be back in Europe. Hoping people will be less sensitive around here and care about real problems.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: bv ()
Date: January 3, 2022 14:58

Any references to politically loaded terms or people like woke etc will be deleted. Please do not bring politics into this thread.

Bjornulf

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Single Malt ()
Date: January 3, 2022 15:45

Quote
Cooltoplady
Keith really struggles with he intro. You have to cringe sometimes.

That could be one of the reasons behind the decision grinning smiley

But I recall Mick was also saying in the nineties that he wouldn't write such lyrics anymore. And if my memory serves me right, Mick was also quite worried would it be suitable to sing Hey Negrita before Bianca okayed it. So, there have been times Mick thought carefully about what is suitable to sing. But anywho, it doesn't worry me they dropped the song because it was those songs that was okay to be dropped and replace with something not-so-familiar (I'd love to hear and see e.g. them doing Prodigal Son as a duo but Keef might not be up to it anymore). And Mick making the crows sing at the end of Brown Sugar is not that cool.

PS. typo on the last sentence: it should be crowds but perhaps there are crows who like The Stones smiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-01-03 17:25 by Single Malt.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: jahisnotdead ()
Date: January 3, 2022 16:39

I feel like I can't post in this thread. I thought about it all day yesterday and now for two hours this morning and I still can't put a post together, especially knowing it's probably going to be erased anyway. It seems impossible to discuss Brown Sugar without discussing its theme of race, and it seems impossible for some to discuss race without making it political.

I don't want to be banned from the forum. No one in the world will be more excited than myself if/when a new Rolling Stones album comes out, and I'd like to be a part of the discussion if/when it does. But, I have strong feelings on this subject. So, I will do my best to be brief and clear, and hopefully I will avoid discussing this topic ever again. I apologize in advance if this post violates any rules. For the record, I agreed with, and still agree with, having a permanent ban on all Brown Sugar threads.

I saw a Black couple walk out of a Rolling Stones concert about 20 years ago. It wasn't because of Brown Sugar. It was because of the Mammy imagery included in the Honky Tonk Women video montage.

I know the Stones aren't racists and the montage was meant to be playful and funny. But guess what? We who are not African-American do not get to tell Black people how to feel about racist imagery, whether it be visual or lyrical.

The Black couple were not rioting or complaining or demanding that Honky Tonk Women be banned. They just left quietly, eating the cost of the two tickets, which as we all know well was not an insubstantial sum.

You know what? In my opinion those two people were right to leave. The Stones let them down. It cost that couple their money and their time for what should have been a fun night out at a great concert. I regret that. The Mammy imagery wasn't necessary for the audience to have a good time.

The old Disney film "Fantasia" had a scene where two Black children, their hair done up "pickaninny" style, were combing the hair of another character. These children have since been cropped out of the version available today. The reasoning is that Disney doesn't want any child to feel hurt or demeaned by the entertainment they put out. It wasn't because political groups demanded it.

Disney's decision is reasonable. Jagger's decision is also reasonable. Sometimes a performer wants their audience to feel welcome and wanted and not excluded because of the color of their skin. If an artist like Mick or a company like Disney wants to put the brakes on racist material in order not to alienate paying guests, who are we to say otherwise?

Keith himself says Brown Sugar is about the "horror" of racism.

Please don't be proud of hoping the U.K. will be less sensitive to the feelings of Black people. That is backwards, regressive, shameful thinking. No one is entitled to hear any particular song in concert. Please put your priorities in order. You wanting to hear a 50 year old song you've already heard 1000 times is not more important than how Black people feel about racism.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: January 3, 2022 16:56

What are you talking about? Honky Tonk Women had a manga style cartoon.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: January 3, 2022 17:00

Excellent post jahisnotdead.

"I know the Stones aren't racists and the montage was meant to be playful and funny. But guess what? We who are not African-American do not get to tell Black people how to feel about racist imagery, whether it be visual or lyrical."

Exactly this.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: RisingStone ()
Date: January 3, 2022 17:18

jahisnotdead —

How did you get to know and conclude that the black couple left the show because they were let down, hurt or offended by the Mammy imagery in the HTW video montage — is it certain and are you sure for that? Need some elaboration if it’s okay for you.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: January 3, 2022 17:25

Quote
Nikkei
What are you talking about? Honky Tonk Women had a manga style cartoon.

your right it was a manga/anime/hentai style animation used in 2002/03

i believe jah is referring to the montage played during the voodoo lounge tour

if you look for the htw from the proshot video of oakland 1994 you'll see the mammy cartoon mixed into it

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Date: January 3, 2022 18:20

It's also the spirit of the age that makes the difference. In the early 7-tees you could shout about anything on stage.These days we might as well skip the lyrics of the dutch anthem.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: January 3, 2022 18:44

I want to come with a few words more:

Whatever we might say about the song. I really don't know how the black population at large, hypothetically exposed, or black concert goers actually exposed in presence, to the Rolling Stones, performing "Brown Sugar", experience at that happening.

Still what is decisive for my attitude, is what the Rolling Stones, by themselves, feel about performing the song, or not doing that. That applies especially to Mick Jagger, by his singing the words of the song.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: noughties ()
Date: January 3, 2022 19:20

-Hmm, this thread, where is it going?

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: bakersfield ()
Date: January 3, 2022 19:25

I’m in the U.K. and I will hope to hear BS.
‘Yeah, yeah, yeah…woo!!’ is the highlight of any Stones show for me.
Anyway, I can’t see how Brown Sugar gets left out and Midnight Rambler (my other personal highlight) stays in, if it’s just about the words?

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: NashvilleBlues ()
Date: January 3, 2022 20:12

I’d guess they’ll never play it live in front of a crowd ever again.

Great song and although I knew they probably wouldn’t play it in Nashville, I didn’t really miss it. If we got 19th Nervous Breakdown in its place, I have no complaints at all about its omission.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: loog droog ()
Date: January 3, 2022 20:57

If the song isn't played because of the lyrics, why not have Weird Al re-write them into a song about food?

Seriously.

You still would have the chorus, and the yeah, yeah, yeah WOO's, and most importantly, the MUSIC.

The Stones audience isn't focused on the words...breathlessly shouted out by Jagger working the stage. It's not a story-song with an up-front vocal that people hang on, like Sinatra singing "The Gal That Got Away."

This isn't a "Let's Spend Some Time Together" concession. The Stones would be putting the whole controversy on it's ear, and mocking it by re-claiming the song.

Bury Mick's vocals even more in the mix. If anyone complains that they are doing this song, show them the teleprompter. No controversy here. This song is now about baking.

You still get the riffs, the beat, and the crowd's ecstatic response. Face it, Brown Sugar is not a message song. Nobody in a Stones audience really pays attention to what the lyrics are about. Look how many people didn't even know in the first place! Look at all the interpretations: It's about sex. It's about heroin. Most of all though, it's about Brown Sugar, and how it tastes so good!

Yes, it's crazy. But is it really any crazier than the last tour? I think of all the times over the years that people wrote, "No Charlie--No Stones!" on this site. I say they do whatever works--and this would be a win-win.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2022-01-03 21:03 by loog droog.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: SomeTorontoGirl ()
Date: January 3, 2022 21:26

Quote
loog droog
If the song isn't played because of the lyrics, why not have Weird Al re-write them into a song about food?…

Like, Hot Rocks Pizza?






Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: January 3, 2022 21:38

Quote
bakersfield
I’m in the U.K. and I will hope to hear BS.
‘Yeah, yeah, yeah…woo!!’ is the highlight of any Stones show for me.
Anyway, I can’t see how Brown Sugar gets left out and Midnight Rambler (my other personal highlight) stays in, if it’s just about the words?

If they play any shows this year, hope so to see it return also.thumbs up

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: loog droog ()
Date: January 3, 2022 21:51

Quote
SomeTorontoGirl
Quote
loog droog
If the song isn't played because of the lyrics, why not have Weird Al re-write them into a song about food?…

Like, Hot Rocks Pizza?

No. Just the opposite. This would be like when he did "Eat It" for "Beat It." The words would be different, but the music remains the same.

Don't get hung up on the Weird Al part. Right, he seems like a goofball, but he's actually very clever with changing the words to already popular songs, and if it takes a lyric revision to get Brown Sugar performed live again, he could be the one to do it in an entertaining way that didn't make it seem as though the Stones were compromising themselves.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-01-03 21:52 by loog droog.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: harlem shuffle ()
Date: January 3, 2022 22:28

Keith is not able to play Brown Sugar anymore,hardly anythibg else either.They need one more guitarplayer for touring this year.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: skytrench ()
Date: January 3, 2022 23:00

Quote
harlem shuffle
Keith is not able to play Brown Sugar anymore,hardly anythibg else either.They need one more guitarplayer for touring this year.

Keith played well many times last year, although he is inconsistent compared to earlier. BS has been deemed too controversial and removed from the playlist. Politically correct, what else to expect from senior citizens? How come you taste so good?

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: angee ()
Date: January 4, 2022 03:06

Jah, I respect your post above. You get it. TY.

~"Love is Strong"~

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: January 4, 2022 03:16

“We’ve played ‘Brown Sugar’ every night since 1970, so sometimes you think,
we’ll take that one out for now and see how it goes. We might put it back in

Mick Jagger - L.A. Times, Oct. '21.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: January 4, 2022 03:40

Quote
harlem shuffle
Keith is not able to play Brown Sugar anymore,hardly anythibg else either.They need one more guitarplayer for touring this year.

Your opinion is wrong.




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