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USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: jstones ()
Date: January 2, 2022 12:28

Hi to everybody - just noticed that in the 2021 US Tour the Stones did not play Brown Sugar - Going back to 1969 they played BS in all their tours !!!! 51 years of BS always there - Maybe because in the US the song is not politically Correct ??? Can anyone give me a better explanation ??
Happy 2022

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: StoneZP ()
Date: January 2, 2022 12:39


Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: January 2, 2022 12:40

Quote
jstones

Can anyone give me a better explanation ??

See this post by the IORR-Editor - [iorr.org] .

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: jstones ()
Date: January 2, 2022 15:17

very sorry to have put this post
I had not read the previous post from Bjornulf
Will delete it immediately

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: bv ()
Date: January 2, 2022 15:56

The tour is over now. As long as people may talk and discuss with manners, and not start another hate campaign here, I will allow this thread to be open. Political campaigns and hate will be deleted.

My own personal comment on this matter:
I did not miss Brown Sugar at all during the tour. I love what they do, they are so powerful, and they have so many great songs, I was so happy to hear the songs they performed on this tour. They are performing artists. Nobody may demand or request what they do. I got to hear BS one time in Boston, at the rehearsals, no worries, they may do it anytime, if they feel like it.

Bjornulf (IORR Editor)

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: jstones ()
Date: January 2, 2022 16:06

Cannot but FULLY agree with Bjornulf statement

As an old time fan I would not mind at all if they did not play some old powerhouse songs and replace them with less performed but still great songs.

I have heard in concert songs such as Miss You, Gimme shelter, Jumping Jack Flash and Start me up so many times that I would not mind if they replaced them with other old and not played songs

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: StoneZP ()
Date: January 2, 2022 16:24

Well said bv! It's what I think.
There's no need to hide your head in the sand because of this, but there's also no need to talk about it in anger. the link I posted deals with the subject without offense and I think it says what it is without making it up. I respect the Stones position. I don't intend to participate in hate campaigns either, I just think there should be good information.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: January 2, 2022 16:48

Quote
bv
The tour is over now. As long as people may talk and discuss with manners, and not start another hate campaign here, I will allow this thread to be open. Political campaigns and hate will be deleted.

My own personal comment on this matter:
I did not miss Brown Sugar at all during the tour. I love what they do, they are so powerful, and they have so many great songs, I was so happy to hear the songs they performed on this tour. They are performing artists. Nobody may demand or request what they do. I got to hear BS one time in Boston, at the rehearsals, no worries, they may do it anytime, if they feel like it.

Bjornulf (IORR Editor)

thank you i agree bv

but since you mentioned that you heard it during the rehearsals can i ask how did it sound?

i can't be the only one courious about how steve jordan approached this song

did you notice a difference in tempo or any other differences?

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: January 2, 2022 17:07

Interesting that they ran through it at rehearsals only the one time in Boston.

While we all know the song doesn't condone or glorify slavery, it does require (for some) an explanation, and I gotta think they made the decision to take that potential conversation off the table for this tour.

Enough issues to deal with this tour, and I think the plan, which was meticulously carried out, was one of no drama- at all.
Even potential drama. This one was about honoring Charlie, period.

Also, I do wonder if Steve may have voiced an opposition. Perhaps even more so now as it was rehearsed the one time. Not that I'm looking to place blame, but even a slight hesitation on his part could have tipped the scales.

Keith put it well I thought.
"At the moment I don't want to get into conflicts with all of this s**t," he commented.

Didn't really miss it this tour, but I am looking forward to it's return, as Keith also stated-
"I'm hoping that we'll be able to resurrect the babe in her glory somewhere along the track," Richards said.
[www.allvipp.com]

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: nellcote'71 ()
Date: January 2, 2022 17:33

It was perfectly fine - until America lost it's mind.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: January 2, 2022 17:36

Replace it with Salt of the Earth, Too Tight,Silver Train,Hand of Fate.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: SomeTorontoGirl ()
Date: January 2, 2022 17:47

Having nothing better to do one evening, I recently looked at the songs they’ve played at the 33 shows I’ve attended, and how often.

Start Me Up - 33
Tumbling Dice - 33
Sympathy - 33
HTW - 33
JJF - 33
Miss You - 32
Satisfaction - 32
YCAGWYW - 31
Brown Sugar - 30 (all pre-2021)
IORR - 29
Rambler - 29
Gimme Shelter - 27
Paint It, Black - 26

Around & Around - 1
Let It Bleed - 1
The Last Time - 1
Far Away Eyes - 1
Under My Thumb - 1
Sweet Virginia - 1
Shattered - 1
Monkey Man - 1
Like A RS - 2
Beast of Burden - 2
Respectable - 2
Heartbreaker - 2
19th NB - 3 (all 2021)
Dead Flowers - 3
Shine A Light - 3
Rocks Off - 3
Moonlight Mile - 3
Under My Thumb - 4

Thirteen songs, more than half the set list, played at nearly every show. In total, barely one ‘rarity’ per show. Do I miss BS? Nope - there are too many other great songs I need to hear!

I know that a huge chunk of every audience is seeing them for the first, and likely only, time BUT … when you add us lunatics together and multiply by the number of shows we’ve seen, I think it balances out. You’re running out of road, lads. Please - mix it up! (Except TD… that one stays. smiling smiley )





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2022-01-02 17:52 by SomeTorontoGirl.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: January 2, 2022 17:50

Quote
Taylor1
Replace it with Salt of the Earth, Too Tight,Silver Train,Hand of Fate.

moonlight mile,love is strong,she was hot,saint of me,down home girl

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: SomeTorontoGirl ()
Date: January 2, 2022 17:53

Quote
ProfessorWolf
Quote
Taylor1
Replace it with Salt of the Earth, Too Tight,Silver Train,Hand of Fate.

moonlight mile,love is strong,she was hot,saint of me,down home girl

All these, but especially Saint Of Me!


Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: January 2, 2022 18:06

What Keith also said was he's "trying to figure out with the sisters what the beef is" which does suggest that the idea to suspend it did not originate within the band. So while it may be true that "nobody may demand or request what they do" there's probably image advisors that have considerable influence on their decisions.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: January 2, 2022 18:16

Quote
SomeTorontoGirl
Quote
ProfessorWolf
Quote
Taylor1
Replace it with Salt of the Earth, Too Tight,Silver Train,Hand of Fate.

moonlight mile,love is strong,she was hot,saint of me,down home girl

All these, but especially Saint Of Me!
She Was Hot ,is a great one

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: January 2, 2022 18:30

Quote
Nikkei
What Keith also said was he's "trying to figure out with the sisters what the beef is" which does suggest that the idea to suspend it did not originate within the band. So while it may be true that "nobody may demand or request what they do" there's probably image advisors that have considerable influence on their decisions.

Good point.
I kinda thought he might be referring to recent US past tours, when there was a few public outcries over it.
There had been none when he was quoted on this, as they hadn't performed it obviously.
That was my take anyway.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: January 2, 2022 18:45

Brown Sugar hasn’t been cancelled. Here’s hoping it’ll return!

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: angee ()
Date: January 2, 2022 18:52

Quote
Nikkei
What Keith also said was he's "trying to figure out with the sisters what the beef is" which does suggest that the idea to suspend it did not originate within the band. So while it may be true that "nobody may demand or request what they do" there's probably image advisors that have considerable influence on their decisions.

Keith has consistently questioned or downplayed these kinds of issues. See Terry Gross asking him about some lyrics about women in her interview on Fresh Air in 2015:

[www.npr.org] (transcript, with link to original interview).

I agree with MrDDDD in imagining Steve Jordan may have said something, or perhaps it was the Chicago Tribune article linked in "theconversation" of SteveZP's post above or similar pieces over the years that struck a nerve. I think Mick made the ultimate call.

As noted, this tour was a tribute to Charlie, and a make-up for the cancellations during the pandemic.

~"Love is Strong"~

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: January 2, 2022 18:58

I think the decision to ‘drop’ Brown Sugar was Mick’s. I would imagine that he’s the most ‘socially aware’ of the group and was probably nudged into the decision by the wider organisation. It’s all utter nonsense, of course. Yet, it’s the works we’re in, seemingly. I still hope it’ll return.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Nikkei ()
Date: January 2, 2022 19:03

Keith may have played it down, but "figure it out with the sisters" is in my opinion the most sensible approach. They should take that in the most literal sense and consult their "contemporary sister" Tina Turner about it. I'd say she should be the authority on the topic.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: January 2, 2022 19:18

IMO , Brown Sugar hasn’t ever been played as well as it was in 1972.It sounded tired for years.Whereas Tumbling Dice is better today than it was in 1972. . They should try newer songs.Salt of the Earth should be a warhorse. She was Hot and Too Tight

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Rocky Dijon ()
Date: January 2, 2022 20:14

The self-censorship began the minute Mick dropped "hear him whip the women just around midnight" in 1972. Much like Keith and his outlaw image, the bad boy pose is largely just that...a pose. Lines that amused them while writing the song or made them think they were courting controversy for the sake of publicity, sales, and street cred when releasing the album later seem like something they weren't comfortable with personally or made them think it would do more harm than good, commercially. The constant teasing and failing to deliver on the promise has always been there for the band. What can a poor boy do when he's certainly not going to fight in the streets and overthrow the government with violent revolution? He sings in a rock and roll band and in the end, it's nothing more than rock and roll whether we like it or not.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Hairball ()
Date: January 2, 2022 20:27

Another one of the many reasons that the tour was weird - Brown Sugar was such a fan favorite on so many previous tours ("yeah yeah, yeah - wooo!"), and then just like that it was gone.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: January 2, 2022 21:04

Quote
Rocky Dijon
The self-censorship began the minute Mick dropped "hear him whip the women just around midnight" in 1972. Much like Keith and his outlaw image, the bad boy pose is largely just that...a pose. Lines that amused them while writing the song or made them think they were courting controversy for the sake of publicity, sales, and street cred when releasing the album later seem like something they weren't comfortable with personally or made them think it would do more harm than good, commercially. The constant teasing and failing to deliver on the promise has always been there for the band. What can a poor boy do when he's certainly not going to fight in the streets and overthrow the government with violent revolution? He sings in a rock and roll band and in the end, it's nothing more than rock and roll whether we like it or not.

actually he started dropping the line at altamont

before they even finished recording it

and if they bring it back this summer i hope he adds the old line

scarred old slaver with his zip up tight

always like that bit of "self censorship"

don't know why he stopped singing it

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: January 2, 2022 21:11

Quote
Rocky Dijon
The self-censorship began the minute Mick dropped "hear him whip the women just around midnight" in 1972. Much like Keith and his outlaw image, the bad boy pose is largely just that...a pose. Lines that amused them while writing the song or made them think they were courting controversy for the sake of publicity, sales, and street cred when releasing the album later seem like something they weren't comfortable with personally or made them think it would do more harm than good, commercially. The constant teasing and failing to deliver on the promise has always been there for the band. What can a poor boy do when he's certainly not going to fight in the streets and overthrow the government with violent revolution? He sings in a rock and roll band and in the end, it's nothing more than rock and roll whether we like it or not.

Yep, Rocky Dijon. That is what it's all about. Apparently the band liked the results, so they gave it another try a couple of years later with Some Girls. There must be thousands of songs around with lyrics one can oppose to.
"Problem" with the Rolling Stones is (and always has been) that they are (partly caused by the image that Oldham gave the band) seen as anti social and therefore the most popular target for subjects as above.
Many diehard Stones fans have developed calluses on their soul (I hope this is the correct expression) when it comes to criticism on the band. Personally (apart from when I was really young and got p*ssed off) I have had lots of laughs over all the nonsence I read over the past decades.
Long live the Rolling Stones and ... to those smart asses grinning smiley
smileys with beer

I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: schwonek ()
Date: January 2, 2022 23:47

It was never the same - after Bobby Keyes passed away. I feel so lucky that my all time favorite "Midnight Rambler" has been so present.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: angee ()
Date: January 2, 2022 23:59

Quote
Rocky Dijon
The self-censorship began the minute Mick dropped "hear him whip the women just around midnight" in 1972. Much like Keith and his outlaw image, the bad boy pose is largely just that...a pose. Lines that amused them while writing the song or made them think they were courting controversy for the sake of publicity, sales, and street cred when releasing the album later seem like something they weren't comfortable with personally or made them think it would do more harm than good, commercially. The constant teasing and failing to deliver on the promise has always been there for the band. What can a poor boy do when he's certainly not going to fight in the streets and overthrow the government with violent revolution? He sings in a rock and roll band and in the end, it's nothing more than rock and roll whether we like it or not.

Rocky Dijon, you make some good points on lines written to amuse themselves and to create an image. However, I would add that even though they were certainly not social activists or revolutionaries in the ordinary sense, their sexual exploits (see Mick, and to an extent, Bill) and drug habits (see Keith and later, Ronnie, and for a time, Charlie) certainly placed them in a leading edge position within the counterculture of the times. More than a few of us fell under those influences, although usually to a lesser degree. The hair and androgynous clothing was another elment that marked them, onstage and off--yes, part of the times, to an extent, and yet pioneered by them, not accepted by the "mainstream" society.

The rebel image wasn't all fantasy.

~"Love is Strong"~

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: January 3, 2022 00:27

Quote
angee
Quote
Rocky Dijon
The self-censorship began the minute Mick dropped "hear him whip the women just around midnight" in 1972. Much like Keith and his outlaw image, the bad boy pose is largely just that...a pose. Lines that amused them while writing the song or made them think they were courting controversy for the sake of publicity, sales, and street cred when releasing the album later seem like something they weren't comfortable with personally or made them think it would do more harm than good, commercially. The constant teasing and failing to deliver on the promise has always been there for the band. What can a poor boy do when he's certainly not going to fight in the streets and overthrow the government with violent revolution? He sings in a rock and roll band and in the end, it's nothing more than rock and roll whether we like it or not.

Rocky Dijon, you make some good points on lines written to amuse themselves and to create an image. However, I would add that even though they were certainly not social activists or revolutionaries in the ordinary sense, their sexual exploits (see Mick, and to an extent, Bill) and drug habits (see Keith and later, Ronnie, and for a time, Charlie) certainly placed them in a leading edge position within the counterculture of the times. More than a few of us fell under those influences, although usually to a lesser degree. The hair and androgynous clothing was another elment that marked them, onstage and off--yes, part of the times, to an extent, and yet pioneered by them, not accepted by the "mainstream" society.

The rebel image wasn't all fantasy.

Well said andee.

Throw in the much publicized drug busts, especially Toronto, and the image was more reality than fantasy for a period.

Re: USA 2021 Tour - Brown Sugar
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: January 3, 2022 00:41

Three months in the can for four amphetamine tabs .....



ROCKMAN

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