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It made my blood run cold when I read what happened to Joan Fitzsimons following Brian's death. The filmmakers discuss all the possible theories and motives, but one thing is certain, the people responsible did not f uck around. They wanted Brian gone, and wanted his murder covered up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-26 22:07 by Bliss.

Some nice footage I have never seen before. Apart from that, anyone's guess.

After Joan came round she gave a statement to DS Grove from Chichester Police. His superior DCI Finley filed a report with the DPP (CPS).He was publicly forced to say there was nothing to Brian’s death (Daily Express end of August 1969. He retired in the mid nineties and soon after that his house was raided by the authorities who took all his files. Joan, in vain, tried to alert Sussex Police again in 1994 after the Crimewatch episode. I saw the notes, but she was ignored.
What is largely overlooked is that one of the builers witnessing the attack on Brian was an Chichester Police informant (Maurice ‘Mo’ Tucker). According to UK law you can’t have an informant in the witness box. Some of the officers involved from the Chicheser angle still meet at a pub regularly and discuss the old days. They know me and I know them but what can you do? You simple can’t crack the English old boys circuit.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-27 10:12 by paulspendel.

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paulspendel
After Joan came round she gave a statement to DS Grove from Chichester Police. His superior DCI Finley filed a report with the DPP (CPS).He was publicly forced to say there was nothing to Brian’s death (Daily Express end of August 1969. He retired in the mid nineties and soon after that his house was raided by the authorities who took all his files. Joan, in vain, tried to alert Sussex Police again in 1994 after the Crimewatch episode. I saw the notes, but she was ignored.
What is largely overlooked is that one of the builers witnessing the attack on Brian was an Chichester Police informant (Maurice ‘Mo’ Tucker). According to UK law you can’t have an informant in the witness box. Some of the officers involved from the Chicheser angle still meet at a pub regularly and discuss the old days. They know me and I know them but what can you do? You simple can’t crack the English old boys circuit.

What a total load of bollocks.

Mathijs

Nice to see you introduce yourself with a rather long surname.

Hello Mathijs, through LinkedIn I sent you an invitation for a private conversation regarding a feature I am writing that mentions you. Could you contact me please because I believe in the journalistic principle of hearing both sides. Thank you. paul@psc-a.nl

I haven't watched it yet. Does it have the usual cheap, erzatz Stones music? That turns ominous when they discuss the endless, tiresome speculation on Brian's death? Still without one shred of proof.

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paulspendel
Hello Mathijs, through LinkedIn I sent you an invitation for a private conversation regarding a feature I am writing that mentions you. Could you contact me please because I believe in the journalistic principle of hearing both sides. Thank you. [email protected]

I do not approve of being mentioned by you in any article without my explicit consent.

Mathijs

I do remember an interview with Keith Richards where he stated that it will never be certain what exactly happened regarding Brian's dead.

Yeah, I watched it, thank you for the link. I concentrated mostly on the 'life' part of it, and thankfully that covered about 2/3 of the film. The 'death' part is something I have lost interest, if I ever really had any, years ago.

Basically talking heads, and some pretty interesting ones, especially that Stash dude. Also some footage never seen before. Most striking was that homemade one young Brian on little sailing boat, in which there was also that older woman he pregnated..

The same old story, and not much new details (some still), but I think pointing out Brian's significance for the early Stones and describing his many-faced, interesting character came through rather nicely. Probably some over-interpretations, but that's alright.

- Doxa

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Doxa

Probably some over-interpretations, but that's alright.

- Doxa

That's right. Besides, when you are a good swimmer (Brian was) you should know when not to dive in a hot water swimming pool. Nothing beats the singer of the Cranberries though. She even managed to drown in her bath.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-28 16:21 by TheflyingDutchman.

Everything I posted here about Brian’s death is well documented. And every time I post here a certain person replies with abuse. Especially when I mention Joan Fitzsimons who was a first rate Brian Jones casualty. Her remaining relatives in Chichester are sick to their stomaches. This trolling has to stop. The person I refer to had it coming and has been identified. Enough is enough. There is only so much trolling you can do before it catches up with you in real life.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-28 20:33 by paulspendel.

for what it worth...

Daily Mail August 2009

HMN

The link to the Daily Mail is empty.

I am not really up on all the Brian Jones theories. Who was Joan Fitzsimons and what happened to her? The film said she was beaten, blinded and left for dead? What kind of shape is she in now?

Joan was left blind and disabled after an attack three weeks after Brian died. She was one of Brian’s drivers. She was not there when Brian died but Thorogood called her to tell her what had happened. Joan threatened to go to the police and an attack on her was carried out. She barely survived and died in 2001. Keylock feared her for many reasons. When she was in hospital Brian’s dog keeper from East Wittering, Joanna Laidlaw, told the police:”Joan knows many things about The Rolling Stones that shouldn’t come out”.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-28 20:30 by paulspendel.

Are there still people around that could live to tell?

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Bliss
The link to the Daily Mail is empty.

try again, it work fine !

HMN

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Bliss
...I am not really up on all the Brian Jones theories. Who was Joan Fitzsimons and what happened to her? The film said she was beaten, blinded and left for dead? What kind of shape is she in now?

from the daily mail article

HMN

At 9:25 Bill Wyman talks about Brian's drowning. For what its worth, 1990.

[www.youtube.com]

What happened to Joan Fitzsimons must surely rate as the worst outcome for anyone who had been associated with the Stones, leaving aside the suicide attempts and drug overdoses.

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paulspendel
Everything I posted here about Brian’s death is well documented. And every time I post here a certain person replies with abuse. Especially when I mention Joan Fitzsimons who was a first rate Brian Jones casualty. Her remaining relatives in Chichester are sick to their stomaches. This trolling has to stop. The person I refer to had it coming and has been identified. Enough is enough. There is only so much trolling you can do before it catches up with you in real life.

If you are referring to me: I do not reply with abuse, nor am I trolling. I am merely pointing out that just about everything you have posted here on Brian Jones has either been proven total bullshit, or falls in the category of just plain old conspiracy theories.

Proven total bullshit are all the stories about Brian's house being 'raided' and evidence 'destroyed and burned'. All Brian's belongings has been returned to his estate, and lots of it has turned up on the open market via his family and friends at the time, from the smallest incense burner to his clothes, art and instruments.

Everything else you state all falls under conspiracy theory. From above: DCI Finley was 'forced' to say there was nothing to Brian’s death, his 'house was raided by the authorities who took all his files' after his retirement. Joan tried to alert Sussex Police 'but she was ignored'. One of the builders 'witnessing the attack on Brian' was 'a Police informant', and 'according to UK law you can’t have an informant in the witness box'. 'You simple can’t crack the English old boys circuit'.

All you stated earlier falls in this conspiracy theory. It's always somebody who knows somebody who knows something but is forced not to say no anything, stuff is always covered up, suddenly a local is a big friend of Brian who happened to be there when Brian was sacked, witnesses died 'under suspicious circumstances', there are the standard deathbed confessions, a modern police force unwilling to open the case 'forced by people higher up' and I can go on here forever.

This all implies there was a big scheme or something from the authorities to remove Brian for whatever reason. Well, there was no reason whatsoever by 1969. He was a drugged up has been who was already a total spent force due to all that happened in 1967 and 1968 and due to his own addictions and drug and drink intake. Also, by 1969 society and the music scene had changed considerably, turning most 'rebel' popstars into wealthy rock stars posing no thread to society.

Kennedy was shot dead by a lone wolf, Brian drowned after taking too many drugs.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

I am merely pointing out that just about everything you have posted here on Brian Jones has either been proven total bullshit, or falls in the category of just plain old conspiracy theories.

Proven total bullshit are all the stories about Brian's house being 'raided' and evidence 'destroyed and burned'. All Brian's belongings has been returned to his estate, and lots of it has turned up on the open market via his family and friends at the time, from the smallest incense burner to his clothes, art and instruments.

Everything else you state all falls under conspiracy theory. From above: DCI Finley was 'forced' to say there was nothing to Brian’s death, his 'house was raided by the authorities who took all his files' after his retirement. Joan tried to alert Sussex Police 'but she was ignored'. One of the builders 'witnessing the attack on Brian' was 'a Police informant', and 'according to UK law you can’t have an informant in the witness box'. 'You simple can’t crack the English old boys circuit'.

All you stated earlier falls in this conspiracy theory. It's always somebody who knows somebody who knows something but is forced not to say no anything, stuff is always covered up, suddenly a local is a big friend of Brian who happened to be there when Brian was sacked, witnesses died 'under suspicious circumstances', there are the standard deathbed confessions, a modern police force unwilling to open the case 'forced by people higher up' and I can go on here forever.

This all implies there was a big scheme or something from the authorities to remove Brian for whatever reason. Well, there was no reason whatsoever by 1969. He was a drugged up has been who was already a total spent force due to all that happened in 1967 and 1968 and due to his own addictions and drug and drink intake. Also, by 1969 society and the music scene had changed considerably, turning most 'rebel' popstars into wealthy rock stars posing no thread to society.

Kennedy was shot dead by a lone wolf, Brian drowned after taking too many drugs.

Mathijs

I am not taking sides in this discussion, it's actually big fun to follow, but how do we know the Brian Jones story has been proven bullshit? Who proved it?

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TheflyingDutchman

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Mathijs

I am merely pointing out that just about everything you have posted here on Brian Jones has either been proven total bullshit, or falls in the category of just plain old conspiracy theories.

Proven total bullshit are all the stories about Brian's house being 'raided' and evidence 'destroyed and burned'. All Brian's belongings has been returned to his estate, and lots of it has turned up on the open market via his family and friends at the time, from the smallest incense burner to his clothes, art and instruments.

Everything else you state all falls under conspiracy theory. From above: DCI Finley was 'forced' to say there was nothing to Brian’s death, his 'house was raided by the authorities who took all his files' after his retirement. Joan tried to alert Sussex Police 'but she was ignored'. One of the builders 'witnessing the attack on Brian' was 'a Police informant', and 'according to UK law you can’t have an informant in the witness box'. 'You simple can’t crack the English old boys circuit'.

All you stated earlier falls in this conspiracy theory. It's always somebody who knows somebody who knows something but is forced not to say no anything, stuff is always covered up, suddenly a local is a big friend of Brian who happened to be there when Brian was sacked, witnesses died 'under suspicious circumstances', there are the standard deathbed confessions, a modern police force unwilling to open the case 'forced by people higher up' and I can go on here forever.

This all implies there was a big scheme or something from the authorities to remove Brian for whatever reason. Well, there was no reason whatsoever by 1969. He was a drugged up has been who was already a total spent force due to all that happened in 1967 and 1968 and due to his own addictions and drug and drink intake. Also, by 1969 society and the music scene had changed considerably, turning most 'rebel' popstars into wealthy rock stars posing no thread to society.

Kennedy was shot dead by a lone wolf, Brian drowned after taking too many drugs.

Mathijs

I am not taking sides in this discussion, it's actually big fun to follow, but how do we know the Brian Jones story has been proven bullshit? Who proved it?

Agreed...interesting to follow. BUT, and not taking sides here, but I don't think something has to be proven 'bullshit'.

It has to first be 'proven'. You can't just say anything and then say 'prove me wrong'. You have to prove it...not just "a friend of a friend of a friend's uncle knew a girl who's brother's girlfriend's aunt told them"...you get the picture.

Though I'm not following closely enough to know where we're actually at on this.

Was it that Brian investigation files were sealed for 75 years? If so, we have only 23 years to wait (we've been used to waiting for a new Stones album ages already, so no any big deal...)

Okay, more seriously, like I said earlier, I am not that into making sense of Brian's tragedic death, because there's been so much odd things, claims and theories circulating along the years (and the factual evidence seems to be pretty contradictual and short as well). That said, I wish all the best for the people keeping this case somehow open, and that some kind of piece of mind will be reached some day, no matter what the result will be like. (Personally, from the base I know now - and that is not much - I am good with that 'death by misadventure' verdict.)

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-29 16:50 by Doxa.

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Doxa
Personally, from the base I know now - and that is not much - I am good with that 'death by misadventure' verdict.)

- Doxa

Me too, but still an interesting puzzle, especially for people that dive into the stuff instead of trashing it as utter bullocks.Maybe the truth is somewhat in the middle.
Let's dream on a bit as it keeps Brian, the founder of the Stones alive in a way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-29 17:38 by TheflyingDutchman.

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TheflyingDutchman

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Doxa
Personally, from the base I know now - and that is not much - I am good with that 'death by misadventure' verdict.)

- Doxa

Me too, but still an interesting puzzle, especially for people that dive into the stuff instead of trashing it as utter bullocks.Maybe the truth is somewhat in the middle.
Let's dream on a bit as it keeps Brian, the founder of the Stones alive in a way.

It's practically impossible to get any 'new' information. They're all dead. I don't find it all that interesting. What would possibly be the benefit if it was discovered someone did kill him? Or was rough housing and accidently drown the already health impaired Brian? (Asthma, etc). The more Kennedy info that comes out, the more I'm convinced Oswald did it. Possibly not alone, but he was involved. That's worth knowing the truth to, but I'm fairly well convinced that what's still being covered up was government incompetence. As for Brian? Is it really that important to know? Can we finally let him rest in peace, and quit digging up his theoretical corpse?

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treaclefingers
I am not taking sides in this discussion, it's actually big fun to follow, but how do we know the Brian Jones story has been proven bullshit? Who proved it?

[/quote]

What has been proven bullshit for example is that there were big bonfires immediately after Brian's death where all his personal belongings were burned, to cover things up or whatever. This has been stated on many books ever since his death.

But the truth is that most of his clothing was taken by Suki Potier and much of it has been sold to collectors by her daughter in recent years. All other belongings were collected by his parents, and they also have sold or given away much of his stuff in recent times. There are two collectors in the UK whom has quite a large collection of stuff from Brian's home, like candle holders, incense burners, jewelry, paintings and art. You can buy it on the market, but I found 5000 pound for an incense burner quite steep.

Mathijs

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TheflyingDutchman

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Mathijs

I am merely pointing out that just about everything you have posted here on Brian Jones has either been proven total bullshit, or falls in the category of just plain old conspiracy theories.

Proven total bullshit are all the stories about Brian's house being 'raided' and evidence 'destroyed and burned'. All Brian's belongings has been returned to his estate, and lots of it has turned up on the open market via his family and friends at the time, from the smallest incense burner to his clothes, art and instruments.

Everything else you state all falls under conspiracy theory. From above: DCI Finley was 'forced' to say there was nothing to Brian’s death, his 'house was raided by the authorities who took all his files' after his retirement. Joan tried to alert Sussex Police 'but she was ignored'. One of the builders 'witnessing the attack on Brian' was 'a Police informant', and 'according to UK law you can’t have an informant in the witness box'. 'You simple can’t crack the English old boys circuit'.

All you stated earlier falls in this conspiracy theory. It's always somebody who knows somebody who knows something but is forced not to say no anything, stuff is always covered up, suddenly a local is a big friend of Brian who happened to be there when Brian was sacked, witnesses died 'under suspicious circumstances', there are the standard deathbed confessions, a modern police force unwilling to open the case 'forced by people higher up' and I can go on here forever.

This all implies there was a big scheme or something from the authorities to remove Brian for whatever reason. Well, there was no reason whatsoever by 1969. He was a drugged up has been who was already a total spent force due to all that happened in 1967 and 1968 and due to his own addictions and drug and drink intake. Also, by 1969 society and the music scene had changed considerably, turning most 'rebel' popstars into wealthy rock stars posing no thread to society.

Kennedy was shot dead by a lone wolf, Brian drowned after taking too many drugs.

Mathijs

I am not taking sides in this discussion, it's actually big fun to follow, but how do we know the Brian Jones story has been proven bullshit? Who proved it?

Agree, not taking sides but definitely believe there is more to the story then just that Brian drowned due to his taking too many drugs.If there is more to the story then yes, the whole truth needs to come out. At this point in time however, the truth to what really happened may never be known.