Why? Because (IMHO) that's what happens with creativity. And they are almost 80. We should be so lucky that they are still even remotely creative at this point.

Are they as creative as they were in their 20's and 30's....or even their 40's and 50's? No. But that seems pretty common and normal to me. Painters, filmmakers, authors...seems all creative types have their creative highpoints and eventually have less to express or get across. Though yes, sometimes there is a late spike or resurgence, but that doesn't seem like a given.

Sure, Dylan released the amazing "Rough and Rowdy Ways" at 79, but it certainly didn't break any creative barriers for him. The Stones could do that and maybe will do that, it remains to be seen. But if they don't, I certainly don't question why the well has "run dry" or slowed down. By all accounts it'd be well within reason foe them to retire and rest on their accomplishments but they are still active, even if it's simply re-working old songs on deluxe projects and releasing occasional songs ('Doom and Gloom', 'One More Shot', 'Living in a Ghost Town') and touring....which, while not part of the creative "well" is certainly part of the physical well. I couldn't do what they're doing and I'm 48.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-29 20:48 by floodonthepage.

Yet they still talk the talk of being creative and productive mentioning a new album in the works in interviews for many years now , but seemingly they just can't get it done - sad, but true.
Thankful for Living in a Ghost Town and the recent tours though...and Keith's Crosseyed Heart from six years ago.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Quote
Hairball
Yet they still talk the talk of being creative and productive mentioning a new album in the works in interviews for many years now , but seemingly they just can't get it done - sad, but true.
Thankful for Living in a Ghost Town and the recent tours though...and Keith's Crosseyed Heart from six years ago.

There is a simple explanation of why they talk the talk $ It's all about maintaining that image that makes the cash register ring . If they were to say we are done over and out -don't you think that would hurt the register from ringing in sales ? On Tickets , on merch , on albums , on streams etc ? It's called playing the game which they are masters at it as they invented it in the first place and truthfully no one does better than the London School of Economics student ! Nobody Does it Better -[www.youtube.com] My Compliments as I wish I had a cash machine just a tenth the size of theirs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Talk is cheap a Stonesalbum?Not at all

Mick is the main writer and his well did not seem to be dry if what he says is true. To release a rolling stones record of new material is what appears to be difficult for them to do.Only Mick and Keith can explain but they don't really know; too picky with the last record.
Rockandroll,
Mops

One could easily make a playlist, even a kind of 'greatest hits' but not necessarily that, of various songs from 1989-2020, whether it's 12 or 50, and it would range from good to really good to maybe excellent, in context, when held up with any previous hits and odd comps.

The issue being that it's that coverage of years in comparison to previous eras etc, which is why I said 'in context'.

Also if Blue and Lonesome is the final proper album ever released by the Rolling Stones they most certainly are going out on top as it is simply outstanding and excellent even though it is all covers of others gems and masterpieces . This album is a Masterpiece and shows the Stones at there finest playing the blues same as the did when they first were formed by Brian Jones so long ago in a distant galaxy . Bravo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is a great thread! Lots of great thoughts...

Do I have anything new to add? Not really. All the great minds have pontificated and spoken. Seems like the well has run dry (get it?)

Seriously...I think the answer to why the well has run dry is not that complicated. Mick and Keith grew up and developed separate lives. Raised families, lived in different communities, don't spend the quality time together that's needed to bang out hits. Like others have postulated great artists usually (although there are exceptions like Dylan) create the bulk of their best work during their young years. Finally, musical tastes have evolved and changed. I see Keith more conservative in his musical tastes and influences, and Jagger leaning (or wanting to lean) to more current trends and being more explorative which (I'm just guessing here) could possibly create a roadblock to creating new music with Keith.

Anyway, that's my two cents...

Otherwise, have a happy and safe New Year! Here's hoping that we turn the corner in 2022 with this pandemic and get back to some type of normal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-30 14:55 by Sighunt.

All this talk of Dylan…Dylan can do it, etc. That’s correct - HE can as he doesn’t have to have another person “sign off” on anything. It’s just HIM. Like Neil Young, Bruce Springsteen, even the late Leonard Cohen. Nobody to “veto” their own INDIVIDUAL creation. Mick has to have Keith give his tunes the seal of approval, and vice versa.

THAT’S the roadblock.

Along with, as I said on page 1 or 2 of this thread the fact that they

Were once Young and hungry and

Now they are old and sated.

Rod

Quote
Sighunt
This is a great thread! Lots of great thoughts...

I agree. However, there seems to be two different issues in regard to the well having dried.

First is the original issue brought by Stoneage that was concerning the lack of 'hits' since "Start Me Up". Technically they have released countless singles since it, and some of them (at least during the 80's) made nice chartings, but none of them have achieved any kind of 'classic status' or even some sort of familiarity among their 'casual fans' as their old hits did. They've been more like 'flavor of the month' things, to be forgotten pretty soon after their hey-day (their set list history pretty much say the same thing). Since "Start Me Up" and TATTOO YOU they have released six albums of original material (all of them been pretty good sellers at the time, but what is typical to all if them is that their streaming numbers are pretty awful compared to their earlier albums), so it is not the question of them not able to create anything, but more like about the quality or impact of the results.

The second issue is that of not releasing anything, or like it have been for 16 years now, next to nothing. I think most of the posts in this thread actually discussing this issue (as many people also do in the 'new album' thread.)

I lean on thinking that these two issues - we might call the the lack of quality vs. lack of quantity - belong closely together. To get sense of the first one, we might be get an answer to the latter as well.

Now, this was a pretty boring and saying nothing kind of answer, wasn't it?

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-30 21:25 by Doxa.

You gave structure to the discussion, Doxa, quite needed and valuable. Thinking about your post, my interpretation becomes that the given subjectmatter and the opening post did not fully correspond. Now I noticed that.

The subjectmatter was wider, the opening post more narrow. I belong to those who found the wider issue much more interesting, all the more as I never have been so delighted in "Start Me Up", (but recently quite appreciate the early more reggaelike version as more attractive), whereas I did like and even love the ensuing "Undercover (of the Night)". I even argued against the perspective from the OP, advanced later again, as of less significance towards the theme in the subjectmatter. This was also as I was opposed to conclusions to the timing that the opening post indicated, which almost always find support on this site by so many posters. I think that rather blocks insight, but that point of view is, of course, also influenced by my tastes .

Quote
Doxa

Quote
Sighunt
This is a great thread! Lots of great thoughts...

I agree. However, there seems to be two different issues in regard to the well having dried.

First is the original issue brought by Stoneage that was concerning the lack of 'hits' since "Start Me Up". Technically they have released countless singles since it, and some of them (at least during the 80's) made nice chartings, but none of them have achieved any kind of 'classic status' or even some sort of familiarity among their 'casual fans' as their old hits did. They've been more like 'flavor of the month' things, to be forgotten pretty soon after their hey-day (their set list history pretty much say the same thing). Since "Start Me Up" and TATTOO YOU they have released six albums of original material (all of them been pretty good sellers at the time, but what is typical to all if them is that their streaming numbers are pretty awful compared to their earlier albums), so it is not the question of them not able to create anything, but more like about the quality or impact of the results.

The second issue is that of not releasing anything, or like it have been for 16 years now, next to nothing. I think most of the posts in this thread actually discussing this issue (as many people also do in the 'new album' thread.)

I lean on thinking that these two issues - we might call the the lack of quality vs. lack of quantity - belong closely together. To get sense of the first one, we might be get an answer to the latter as well.

Now, this was a pretty boring and saying nothing kind of answer, wasn't it?

- Doxa

All true, amen.

Even the idea of quality vs. impact could be a further breakout discussion. Some "quality" things in music have been released with very little "impact", just as there've been lesser things that have received much fanfare. There's a great quote in the Wilco documentary film "I am Trying to Break Your Heart" which I'm sure I'm butchering here but basically it's the band's manager talking about creative possibilities within the band...which he felt were limitless...compared to record sales (impact) which I think he acknowledged is mysterious and really uncontrollable.

Even in the Stones "heyday" they have some quite successful songs that have no impact on me personally, while there are others that didn't chart that are among my favorites. "Eye (or ear) of the Beholder" type stuff.

As for the "16 years without an album" end of the thread...I certainly don't fault them for 16 years or even 26 years. If they ever release another one... great, but truly their "well" has runneth over and anything now is bonus IMHO. They've got so many great things that they've given us that there is no danger of gathering moss.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-31 04:00 by floodonthepage.

Why did the well run dry? That's a deep question...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-30 23:20 by ryanpow.

One other aspect though in addition to my post, hit making cannot be the only expression that quality tales.

Quote
TheGreek

Quote
Hairball
Yet they still talk the talk of being creative and productive mentioning a new album in the works in interviews for many years now , but seemingly they just can't get it done - sad, but true.
Thankful for Living in a Ghost Town and the recent tours though...and Keith's Crosseyed Heart from six years ago.

There is a simple explanation of why they talk the talk $ It's all about maintaining that image that makes the cash register ring . If they were to say we are done over and out -don't you think that would hurt the register from ringing in sales ? On Tickets , on merch , on albums , on streams etc ? It's called playing the game which they are masters at it as they invented it in the first place and truthfully no one does better than the London School of Economics student ! Nobody Does it Better -[www.youtube.com] My Compliments as I wish I had a cash machine just a tenth the size of theirs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes they're greedy businessmen who are only in it for the money these days, but I think they sincerely have wanted to get a new album done - they've mentioned it in nearly every interview over the last six years or so.
But again, sadly they just can't seem to get it done. There's multiple reasons why, but probably the main reason is they simply don't see eye to eye on much these days. If you recall, Keith didn't like Getta Grip/England Lost refusing to play on them ("it's not Stones material"), so that probably wasted a year in the process while Mick went ahead and released them with all the promotion and various versions that hardly anybody cared about.
And we can only speculate how many "killer riffs" Keith had ready to go that Mick didn't like, but I imagine Mick has vetoed his fair share of Keith's ideas in the same way Keith has vetoed Micks ideas.
Again, Ghost Town was great, but at this point seems there last full album will ultimately be Blue and Lonesome. There might be another new single or two, but a whole album seems an impossibility for them at this point.
Would love to be proven wrong, but 16 years and counting without a new album of original material makes it hard to convince me otherwise. Meanwhile, maybe/hopefully Keith will release another new solid solo album while Mick tinkers away at doctoring up decades old tunes buried in the vaults....

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-31 01:07 by Hairball.

Ah, Hairball, now you forget Mick and friends' possible albums REJECTS VOL 1, REJECTS VOL 2 and REJECTS VOL 3! How I look forward to those as I have told you before!

[I disagree that they are only greedy businessmen these days, but it is a waste of time to argue.]

If you recall, Keith didn't like
Getta Grip/England Lost refusing to play on them


Only recall one mention from Keith about these two tracks

And he didnt say he refused to play on them



ROCKMAN

He said they weren't Stones tunes, and that Mick should release them himself.

Keith said he didn't want anything to do with them:

Getta Grip


His Rolling Stones bandmate Keith Richards was unimpressed.

"I didn't make anything of them at all," the guitarist sniffed to The Daily Mail's Sebastian Shakespeare.
"I asked (Mick) why he did it. When I heard them, all I said was, 'This is not Stones stuff.
If you want to put them out, put them out by yourself. And the b-gger went and did it."

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-31 02:12 by Hairball.

Quote
Witness
Ah, Hairball, now you forget Mick and friends' possible albums REJECTS VOL 1, REJECTS VOL 2 and REJECTS VOL 3! How I look forward to those as I have told you before!

Reminds me of the recent Mick/Grohl tune Easy Sleazy - a terrible tune and a complete reject - so much so it wasn't even released properly.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Lol

ROCKMAN

Quote
Hairball

Quote
Witness
Ah, Hairball, now you forget Mick and friends' possible albums REJECTS VOL 1, REJECTS VOL 2 and REJECTS VOL 3! How I look forward to those as I have told you before!

Reminds me of the recent Mick/Grohl tune Easy Sleazy - a terrible tune and a complete reject - so much so it wasn't even released properly.

But that was an outside cooperation. These REJECTS albums would involve the musicians behind "Gotta Get a Grip" and " England Lost".

I wonder how many times Keith has told Mick "this is not Stones stuff" when they're trying to complete a new Stones album. At the same time, I wonder how many of Keith's ideas Mick hasn't liked.
The only way they could finish an album was by doing the average at best Blue and Lonesome covers album - better than nothing I suppose, but sadly nothing original about it in the songwriting department.
Aside from Ghost Town, they haven't been on the same page for quite some time as far as collaborating/songwriting, and the best hope is another covers album which Keith actually wanted after the original B&L release.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

How ya know all that ?????/



ROCKMAN

Like everyone else, speculating based on what we know...16 years and counting...no new album...

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Keith on Blue and Lonesome, 2016:

“It’s almost like getting something off your chest that had been there for a long time. I’m looking forward to volume two already.”

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Oh I see ....



ROCKMAN

It will actually be 17 years and counting without a new original Stones album in just a couple of days...sad...

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-31 02:53 by Hairball.

Quote
Rockman
Oh I see ....

wow...you're getting a little judgy on hairball coughing up that hairball.