It just occurred to me that we do not have all the 1969 show recordings. I believe we have access to all the American shows and of course Hyde park, but what about the two London shows in December: Saville Theater and Lyceum Ballroom? I know we have 2 or 3 songs from one of those shows, but no one apparently recorded them? Damn you Londoners! Just kidding . . .

And MSG 28th Nov. 1st ?

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Mr. Jimi
It just occurred to me that we do not have all the 1969 show recordings. I believe we have access to all the American shows and of course Hyde park, but what about the two London shows in December: Saville Theater and Lyceum Ballroom? I know we have 2 or 3 songs from one of those shows, but no one apparently recorded them? Damn you Londoners! Just kidding . . .

what is the deal with those last few shows in london 1969?

did no tapers record these shows?

why?

has anyone heard of recordings of these shows existing in a private collection or something?

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ProfessorWolf

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Mr. Jimi
It just occurred to me that we do not have all the 1969 show recordings. I believe we have access to all the American shows and of course Hyde park, but what about the two London shows in December: Saville Theater and Lyceum Ballroom? I know we have 2 or 3 songs from one of those shows, but no one apparently recorded them? Damn you Londoners! Just kidding . . .

what is the deal with those last few shows in london 1969?

did no tapers record these shows?

why?

has anyone heard of recordings of these shows existing in a private collection or something?

no, just the handful of video stuff that is ciculating is there.
I know of no (even rumoured) recordings from one of these shows.

The two shows from Auburn on November 14th have yet to surface as well. The circulating source for Dallas is pretty poor but complete.

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automaticchanger
The two shows from Auburn on November 14th have yet to surface as well. The circulating source for Dallas is pretty poor but complete.

I heard from several trusted sources years ago that a soundboard existed of one of the Auburn shows.However ,nothing seems to have turned up,so who knows.Also,I believe only half of the Phoenix show exists. Dub was busted halfway through the show,and had to flee the Arena.

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ProfessorWolf

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Mr. Jimi
It just occurred to me that we do not have all the 1969 show recordings. I believe we have access to all the American shows and of course Hyde park, but what about the two London shows in December: Saville Theater and Lyceum Ballroom? I know we have 2 or 3 songs from one of those shows, but no one apparently recorded them? Damn you Londoners! Just kidding . . .

what is the deal with those last few shows in london 1969?

did no tapers record these shows?

why?

has anyone heard of recordings of these shows existing in a private collection or something?

because the venues were tiny, tape recorders were few and far between and the concept of bootlegging rock concerts was still in its infancy.

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Gazza

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ProfessorWolf

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Mr. Jimi
It just occurred to me that we do not have all the 1969 show recordings. I believe we have access to all the American shows and of course Hyde park, but what about the two London shows in December: Saville Theater and Lyceum Ballroom? I know we have 2 or 3 songs from one of those shows, but no one apparently recorded them? Damn you Londoners! Just kidding . . .

what is the deal with those last few shows in london 1969?

did no tapers record these shows?

why?

has anyone heard of recordings of these shows existing in a private collection or something?

because the venues were tiny, tape recorders were few and far between and the concept of bootlegging rock concerts was still in its infancy.

that's what i suspected until about 1972 i guess

was europe slower to come around to taping these show then the us?

is that why so few quality recording of the 70 tour exist?

or was the ton of good recordings from the us tour in 69 more of a lucky accident owing to a few dedicated tapers doing something new?

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1specialrider

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automaticchanger
The two shows from Auburn on November 14th have yet to surface as well. The circulating source for Dallas is pretty poor but complete.

I heard from several trusted sources years ago that a soundboard existed of one of the Auburn shows.However ,nothing seems to have turned up,so who knows.Also,I believe only half of the Phoenix show exists. Dub was busted halfway through the show,and had to flee the Arena.

You're right about Phoenix, I forgot about that show. A soundboard would be great, but I won't hold my breath, haha.

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ProfessorWolf

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Gazza

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ProfessorWolf

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Mr. Jimi
It just occurred to me that we do not have all the 1969 show recordings. I believe we have access to all the American shows and of course Hyde park, but what about the two London shows in December: Saville Theater and Lyceum Ballroom? I know we have 2 or 3 songs from one of those shows, but no one apparently recorded them? Damn you Londoners! Just kidding . . .

what is the deal with those last few shows in london 1969?

did no tapers record these shows?

why?

has anyone heard of recordings of these shows existing in a private collection or something?

because the venues were tiny, tape recorders were few and far between and the concept of bootlegging rock concerts was still in its infancy.

that's what i suspected until about 1972 i guess

was europe slower to come around to taping these show then the us?

is that why so few quality recording of the 70 tour exist?

or was the ton of good recordings from the us tour in 69 more of a lucky accident owing to a few dedicated tapers doing something new?

But we do have Europe 1970 covered with many recorded shows and then we are missing most of the 1971 English shows. @ Gazza- how do we have JJF, Carol, and Satisfaction from the Saville Theater?

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Mr. Jimi
@ Gazza- how do we have JJF, Carol, and Satisfaction from the Saville Theater?

Those three were shot by a news crew. The entire raw footage has circulated for years and aside from some silent b-roll shots (back of the venue, behind the stage, etc) there isn't any additional performance footage.

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ProfessorWolf

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Gazza

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ProfessorWolf

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Mr. Jimi
It just occurred to me that we do not have all the 1969 show recordings. I believe we have access to all the American shows and of course Hyde park, but what about the two London shows in December: Saville Theater and Lyceum Ballroom? I know we have 2 or 3 songs from one of those shows, but no one apparently recorded them? Damn you Londoners! Just kidding . . .

what is the deal with those last few shows in london 1969?

did no tapers record these shows?

why?

has anyone heard of recordings of these shows existing in a private collection or something?

because the venues were tiny, tape recorders were few and far between and the concept of bootlegging rock concerts was still in its infancy.

that's what i suspected until about 1972 i guess

was europe slower to come around to taping these show then the us?

is that why so few quality recording of the 70 tour exist?

or was the ton of good recordings from the us tour in 69 more of a lucky accident owing to a few dedicated tapers doing something new?

The US tour was in arenas. It stands to sense that you're more likely to have a taper in a 15,000 seater arena than in a ballroom that holds 10% as much.

Even at that, most of the shows that do exist from 45-50 years ago come from one source per show. So, thats one person with a recorder out of 15-20,000. Pretty long odds that you'll even get anything at all.

I'm just completing an update of my setlists page and there are just over 100 shows from 1969 to 2021 that dont circulate. Even on the 1972 tour there are ten missing shows. As late as the Bigger Bang tour - a largely stadium tour that lasted two years - there are 13 missing shows. Almost all of them in North America.

Portable taping was just taking off by the late 60's/early 70's. There are barely ten shows in the Brian Jones era that circulated - out of over 1,000 concerts. And the only American one that does (Honoloulu '66 - coincidentally Brian's last US show) isn't an audience recording.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-12-15 04:53 by Gazza.

thank you that really was informative and puts everything neatly in perpective

This explains a lot. [en.wikipedia.org] Prior to this time recordings were made with a reel to reel recorder. Portable reel to reel recorders were very expensive and sneaking one in required balls, big brass ones. Having taped with a portable PCM rig in the late 80's which was about 60 pounds of gear and navigating security I cannot fathom what it would take to use a reel to reel. In many cases one also needed access to an electrical outlet to power the recorder. I need 20 pounds of batteries to power the PCM and portable Betamax

I think it is actually pretty amazing how much is available from the early days. It was a much larger effort than sticking a phone up in the air. So many things we take for granted today were an automatic bust. Now everyone has a device in their hand that emits light. Back then security could see a flashlight or a light from a recorder in the dark and the next thing that happened was security was investigating. I knew a guy who got caught taping from the 10th row at Madison Square Garden in the mid 80's because one of the lighting crew above the stage saw a red light and with his flashlight he was pointed out to security.

The costs involved in taping was also quite high whether it was gear or recording media. My PCM rig cost over $3000 in 1986, my first DAT machine cost $2500 in 1989 (appx $5,000 in today's dollars) and my first cassette deck I taped with cost $500 in 1984. The recorder I use now cost under $200. Cassette tapes cost $3 to $4 each and 2 required for a show, professional Beta tapes and DAT tapes cost between $10 and $15 each and 2 were required. Now I buy an SD card I can do 6 to 8 shows with and they cost $10 each. Granted tickets were cheaper then but all told it is much more affordable to record shows now.

wow thanks dapsy that was really interesting

i actually kinda know what your talking about

i know someone who taped shows in the tacoma/seattle area in the 70's and 80's

he even says he's got a recording of the 2nd stones show in seattle in 72 not one of the circulating sources

but he also says its not very good and doesn't sound as good as the ones in circularion because his equipment wasn't very good

none of his recording are bootlegged or posted online and he hasn't digitized them

someday i hope to convince him to let me convert them and share them before the tapes completely degrade

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Gazza

The US tour was in arenas. It stands to sense that you're more likely to have a taper in a 15,000 seater arena than in a ballroom that holds 10% as much.

Even at that, most of the shows that do exist from 45-50 years ago come from one source per show. So, thats one person with a recorder out of 15-20,000. Pretty long odds that you'll even get anything at all.

I'm just completing an update of my setlists page and there are just over 100 shows from 1969 to 2021 that dont circulate. Even on the 1972 tour there are ten missing shows. As late as the Bigger Bang tour - a largely stadium tour that lasted two years - there are 13 missing shows. Almost all of them in North America.

Portable taping was just taking off by the late 60's/early 70's. There are barely ten shows in the Brian Jones era that circulated - out of over 1,000 concerts. And the only American one that does (Honoloulu '66 - coincidentally Brian's last US show) isn't an audience recording.

once I get hands on a time machine, I will tape the missing shows (I consider video too, lol).

Has the complete Champaign, Illinois (11/15) show ever appeared?

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ProfessorWolf
wow thanks dapsy that was really interesting

i actually kinda know what your talking about

i know someone who taped shows in the tacoma/seattle area in the 70's and 80's

he even says he's got a recording of the 2nd stones show in seattle in 72 not one of the circulating sources

but he also says its not very good and doesn't sound as good as the ones in circularion because his equipment wasn't very good

none of his recording are bootlegged or posted online and he hasn't digitized them

someday i hope to convince him to let me convert them and share them before the tapes completely degrade

He should get it digitized because the tapes will deteriorate and may only play once or twice at this point. Someone here who does all the remasters would be better off spending time on a source like that than messing with the high quality recordings from the past few tours.

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automaticchanger

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Mr. Jimi
@ Gazza- how do we have JJF, Carol, and Satisfaction from the Saville Theater?

Those three were shot by a news crew. The entire raw footage has circulated for years and aside from some silent b-roll shots (back of the venue, behind the stage, etc) there isn't any additional performance footage.

Yes, I beleive thats what I've heard, but how does that work? Are they able to tap into the soundboard? And if so, why not just record the whole show. I realize at some gigs they would let the press up front for the first few numbers. Here, we have JJF, Carol, and Satisfaction, maybe because Satisfaction was the most "popular" song played, the news crew kept it. I think we have a bunch of shows that have at least the first number recorded by a news oulet- MSG 72, LA 73, some 81 shows, a few more I think . . .

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Lil' Brian
Has the complete Champaign, Illinois (11/15) show ever appeared?

Only 5 songs circulate from the evening show.

the early show was streamed briefly as a Copyright Extension release two years ago

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Mr. Jimi

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automaticchanger

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Mr. Jimi
@ Gazza- how do we have JJF, Carol, and Satisfaction from the Saville Theater?

Those three were shot by a news crew. The entire raw footage has circulated for years and aside from some silent b-roll shots (back of the venue, behind the stage, etc) there isn't any additional performance footage.

Yes, I beleive thats what I've heard, but how does that work? Are they able to tap into the soundboard? And if so, why not just record the whole show. I realize at some gigs they would let the press up front for the first few numbers. Here, we have JJF, Carol, and Satisfaction, maybe because Satisfaction was the most "popular" song played, the news crew kept it. I think we have a bunch of shows that have at least the first number recorded by a news oulet- MSG 72, LA 73, some 81 shows, a few more I think . . .

A news crew would only be allowed to film a small portion of the show as what's called 'raw news footage' - and then would broadcast a few clips (it would be rare to have them broadcast a full song). Its not necessarily the case that the songs they would be allowed to film would be consecutive. If you look at the footage from the Steel Wheels tour for example, the local news crews always got to show clips from 'Start Me Up' and 'Sad Sad Sad' - which were songs 1 & 3 (although they were usually 1 & 2 in 1990). Things change from one tour to the next but they're simply not going to get permission to film a full show. There would be no need for them to do that anyway if theyre only going to broadcast a few seconds of footage.

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daspyknows

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ProfessorWolf
wow thanks dapsy that was really interesting

i actually kinda know what your talking about

i know someone who taped shows in the tacoma/seattle area in the 70's and 80's

he even says he's got a recording of the 2nd stones show in seattle in 72 not one of the circulating sources

but he also says its not very good and doesn't sound as good as the ones in circularion because his equipment wasn't very good

none of his recording are bootlegged or posted online and he hasn't digitized them

someday i hope to convince him to let me convert them and share them before the tapes completely degrade

He should get it digitized because the tapes will deteriorate and may only play once or twice at this point. Someone here who does all the remasters would be better off spending time on a source like that than messing with the high quality recordings from the past few tours.

i hear ya

but he is very protective of his things he's had people steal stuff from him in the past and its made him kinda of paranoid

but i'll keep wearing him down

hopefully someday

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falo01

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Gazza

once I get hands on a time machine, I will tape the missing shows (I consider video too, lol).

Falo, I'll bring a quarter-pound(er) for our ride on the time machine, and in the words of James McMurtry from Choctaw Bingo, "We'll have us a time!"

stonesstein

Kick me like you did before
I can't even feel the pain no more
Rocks Off, 1972

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Gazza
Even on the 1972 tour there are ten missing shows. As late as the Bigger Bang tour - a largely stadium tour that lasted two years - there are 13 missing shows.

Is there an online list or guide of circulating live boots?

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cyclist

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Gazza
Even on the 1972 tour there are ten missing shows. As late as the Bigger Bang tour - a largely stadium tour that lasted two years - there are 13 missing shows.

Is there an online list or guide of circulating live boots?

try here

Thanks, Wolf! A great resource.

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ProfessorWolf

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daspyknows

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ProfessorWolf
wow thanks dapsy that was really interesting

i actually kinda know what your talking about

i know someone who taped shows in the tacoma/seattle area in the 70's and 80's

he even says he's got a recording of the 2nd stones show in seattle in 72 not one of the circulating sources

but he also says its not very good and doesn't sound as good as the ones in circularion because his equipment wasn't very good

none of his recording are bootlegged or posted online and he hasn't digitized them

someday i hope to convince him to let me convert them and share them before the tapes completely degrade

He should get it digitized because the tapes will deteriorate and may only play once or twice at this point. Someone here who does all the remasters would be better off spending time on a source like that than messing with the high quality recordings from the past few tours.

i hear ya

but he is very protective of his things he's had people steal stuff from him in the past and its made him kinda of paranoid

but i'll keep wearing him down

hopefully someday

In a tactful way explain to him that when he dies these recordings will be buried too. Also, the tapes deteriorate. In all likelihood there are at that point now and someone who has experience will be needed to preserve these.

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daspyknows

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ProfessorWolf

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daspyknows

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ProfessorWolf
wow thanks dapsy that was really interesting

i actually kinda know what your talking about

i know someone who taped shows in the tacoma/seattle area in the 70's and 80's

he even says he's got a recording of the 2nd stones show in seattle in 72 not one of the circulating sources

but he also says its not very good and doesn't sound as good as the ones in circularion because his equipment wasn't very good

none of his recording are bootlegged or posted online and he hasn't digitized them

someday i hope to convince him to let me convert them and share them before the tapes completely degrade

He should get it digitized because the tapes will deteriorate and may only play once or twice at this point. Someone here who does all the remasters would be better off spending time on a source like that than messing with the high quality recordings from the past few tours.

i hear ya

but he is very protective of his things he's had people steal stuff from him in the past and its made him kinda of paranoid

but i'll keep wearing him down

hopefully someday

In a tactful way explain to him that when he dies these recordings will be buried too. Also, the tapes deteriorate. In all likelihood there are at that point now and someone who has experience will be needed to preserve these.

he tells me from time to time that when the time comes he'll pass his collection on to me

but i don't know how serious he is

and he is aware that the tapes detorate and though he is not computer savy he does know his way around analog equipment and tranfered all his master cassettes to reel to reel tapes about 15 years ago on a high end deck along with a lot of his records and stores the tapes properly

so i suspect these tapes will probably survive a bit longer

just wish he'd record me a casettee of his seattle 72 tape

tell you what though if he ever does i'll post it here first or send it to someone who knows what there doing

The question is still open from when the Rolling Stones themselves had their shows recorded professionally in soundboard quality.

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daspyknows
This explains a lot. [en.wikipedia.org] Prior to this time recordings were made with a reel to reel recorder. Portable reel to reel recorders were very expensive and sneaking one in required balls, big brass ones. Having taped with a portable PCM rig in the late 80's which was about 60 pounds of gear and navigating security I cannot fathom what it would take to use a reel to reel. In many cases one also needed access to an electrical outlet to power the recorder. I need 20 pounds of batteries to power the PCM and portable Betamax

I think it is actually pretty amazing how much is available from the early days. It was a much larger effort than sticking a phone up in the air. So many things we take for granted today were an automatic bust. Now everyone has a device in their hand that emits light. Back then security could see a flashlight or a light from a recorder in the dark and the next thing that happened was security was investigating. I knew a guy who got caught taping from the 10th row at Madison Square Garden in the mid 80's because one of the lighting crew above the stage saw a red light and with his flashlight he was pointed out to security.

The costs involved in taping was also quite high whether it was gear or recording media. My PCM rig cost over $3000 in 1986, my first DAT machine cost $2500 in 1989 (appx $5,000 in today's dollars) and my first cassette deck I taped with cost $500 in 1984. The recorder I use now cost under $200. Cassette tapes cost $3 to $4 each and 2 required for a show, professional Beta tapes and DAT tapes cost between $10 and $15 each and 2 were required. Now I buy an SD card I can do 6 to 8 shows with and they cost $10 each. Granted tickets were cheaper then but all told it is much more affordable to record shows now.

That's what my brother in law told me when we talked about his recrdings from the 60s. He said he always needed two friends to carry in the gear including a few sets of batteries to be able to record the whole evening. But he also said that nobody cared about it in the 60s - at least in Vienna. As there's an incomplete reel-to-reel recording from the show in 1976 I would say it wasn't a problem until the late 70s/early 80s here. When the Stones played in Vienna 1982 security was tight and the taper of the video told me that he smuggled his camera into the stadium inside a red-cross vehicle.
But then I remember that I lost my recording gear as we ran inside the Circus Krone back in 2033 for the best places - it felt down the floor and landed in front of the feet of a security guard - he bent down to pick it up and handed it over to me with a grin. So you never can tell.