I was recently listening to the Paris, Lyon, Knebworth and El Mocambo shows from 1976-1977. They got me to thinking: as much as I love Wayne Perkins and Harvey Mandel’s work on B&B, I wonder why Mick and Keith didn’t let Ronnie replace their parts on “Hot Stuff,” “Hand of Fate,” and “Fool to Cry.” Ronnies playing on those songs from 1976-1977 show he was more than capable of adding something great to them. And in the end, it’s his picture on the album cover.

Any thoughts?

He couldn't have come up with the same great ideas, when he was playing the songs live he was copying what they(Perkins and Mandel) already had recorded on the album.

Ronnie hasn't come up with one great solo on a record worth to remember.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-13 08:58 by IsakSun.

Beast of Burden for one. Great solo.

Why didn’t they let Mick Taylor add guitar on some other tracks on Let it Bleed? Like Midnight Rambler Let it Bleedand Love in Vain?Same reason.They liked what they had

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Taylor1
Why didn’t they let Mick Taylor add guitar on some other tracks on Let it Bleed? Like Midnight Rambler Let it Bleedand Love in Vain?Same reason.They liked what they had

Yes. It's great that the studio version of Rambler is as minimalistic and repetitive as it is. That puts the focus on the groove rather than some melody lines. Some soloing by Taylor over it would not have made it better. Even though it's great what he did live

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IsakSun
He couldn't have come up with the same great ideas, when he was playing the songs live he was copying what they(Perkins and Mandel) already had recorded on the album.

Ronnie hasn't come up with one great solo on a record worth to remember.

I think there are some catchy and sweet solos/guitar interludes by Ronnie on the Some Girls album. Also this B-Bender solo on Dice that he did for the last 20 years is more memorable than the one on the original record



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-13 13:08 by StonedRambler.

The crazy Mama outro solo. Great stuff!

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TeddyB1018
Beast of Burden for one. Great solo.

It's ok, its more like some great licks that fits the song, not a solo like the one on "Worried About You" or "Dead Flowers". Same with the "Start me up" solo he does live, it's more like a theme that follows the chords than a great solo.

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StonedRambler

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IsakSun
He couldn't have come up with the same great ideas, when he was playing the songs live he was copying what they(Perkins and Mandel) already had recorded on the album.

Ronnie hasn't come up with one great solo on a record worth to remember.

I think there are some catchy and sweet solos/guitar interludes by Ronnie on the Some Girls album. Also this B-Bender solo on Dice that he did for the last 20 years is more memorable than the one on the original record

The B-bender solo is good some nights but its nothing compared to Keith's guitar solo on the Tumbling Dice album version. Ronnie actually tried to play Keith's original solo in Miami in 2019. I was impressed by it and it actually sounded quite good, especially the end of the solo.

Ronnie is a better solo-player than Keith but he can't write good solos by himself, they´re decent, in my opinion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-13 14:05 by IsakSun.

I do hope those doesn't turn out to be a Ronnie bashing thread. I'm not a musician but just hear him go on the live in Texas CD. With headphones you can clearly distinguish his side from Keith's. Excellent stuff.

I don't care much if Ronnie has a memorable solo on the records, but I take issue that he is willing to perform explicit non-solos for Mick in the vein of SOL or Doom and Gloom.

His best solos are on the 1975 tour like Gimme Shelter.His solo on Maggie May and the live 1974 I Can Feel the Fire are great.His solos on Voodoo Lounge are good He is a very good guitarist but not as great as Taylor

Ronnie's live solos have been outstanding, for me from 1994 to at least up through the LICKS tour, on Tumbling Dice, Start Me Up, Shattered, Dead Flowers. But he's not really a soloist.

Possibly his finest moment in regard to a slide solo is in Out Of Tears.

Ronnie's playing in this version of Start Me Up, including his melodic lines toward the end with the variations on the bending he does, is excellent.

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stevecardi
I was recently listening to the Paris, Lyon, Knebworth and El Mocambo shows from 1976-1977. They got me to thinking: as much as I love Wayne Perkins and Harvey Mandel’s work on B&B, I wonder why Mick and Keith didn’t let Ronnie replace their parts on “Hot Stuff,” “Hand of Fate,” and “Fool to Cry.” Ronnies playing on those songs from 1976-1977 show he was more than capable of adding something great to them. And in the end, it’s his picture on the album cover.

Any thoughts?

Ronnie came into the BAB sessions, apparently, from all that I've read, towards the end of the spring 1975 sessions, which is when they recorded Hey Negrita, Hot Stuff and Crazy Mama, and then shortly after they started rehearsing for the 1975 tour. By that point they'd already tracked the songs with Harvey Mandel and Wayne Perkins. They started BAB at the end of 1974. They didn't finish it until February of 1976.

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StonedRambler

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IsakSun
He couldn't have come up with the same great ideas, when he was playing the songs live he was copying what they(Perkins and Mandel) already had recorded on the album.

Ronnie hasn't come up with one great solo on a record worth to remember.

I think there are some catchy and sweet solos/guitar interludes by Ronnie on the Some Girls album. Also this B-Bender solo on Dice that he did for the last 20 years is more memorable than the one on the original record

The slide solo on Out of Tears is simply beautiful. Also his solo on I Gotta See. Yes his solo on Dice, and I want to mention his leads on Dead Flowers as well.

[www.reverbnation.com]

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GasLightStreet


Possibly his finest moment in regard to a slide solo is in Out Of Tears.

Yeah that one has been forgotten too quickly. It's splendid.

He does nice solos on Blinded by Rainbows and Out of Tears.

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GasLightStreet
Ronnie's live solos have been outstanding, for me from 1994 to at least up through the LICKS tour, on Tumbling Dice, Start Me Up, Shattered, Dead Flowers. But he's not really a soloist.

Possibly his finest moment in regard to a slide solo is in Out Of Tears.

Ronnie's playing in this version of Start Me Up, including his melodic lines toward the end with the variations on the bending he does, is excellent.

Very good version

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matxil

Very good version

Indeed. Could be even the best live version of "Start Me Up" I ever have heard. Generally, I think when they opened the shows with it during 1989/90 tours they put so much effort, thought and concentration into it that it really worked well, and I see that as an expection in the history of "Start Me Up" played live. Usually they rush it through with no much concentration (1981/82) or just play it autopilot-like by saving energy as a sure crowd pleaser (almost any version since 1994). Or something. I don't know what is the problem. Probably being so damn simple and archaic as a tune, relying so much on their most obvious cliches, it is pretty difficult song to play convincingly live, even for them (and any no-Stones band, please don't even try). But in 1989/90 they showed it could be done.

- Doxa

Ronnie is great in Toronto's Brown Sugar version 09.03.1989-
It's amazing what he does at the end of the song! reminds me of the live version of Brown Sugar Europe Tour 1970

I like the solo on Blinded by Rainbows if that is Ronnie I always wondered.

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GasLightStreet
Ronnie's live solos have been outstanding, for me from 1994 to at least up through the LICKS tour, on Tumbling Dice, Start Me Up, Shattered, Dead Flowers. But he's not really a soloist.

Possibly his finest moment in regard to a slide solo is in Out Of Tears.

Ronnie's playing in this version of Start Me Up, including his melodic lines toward the end with the variations on the bending he does, is excellent.

Ronnie is very good here. He and Keith both sounded great on those Silhouettes (plus moving more air with Boogie cabs, rack-mounted effects, etc) in 1989-90. But one of the things we underrate in that clip is the presence of Bill. He is up in the mix, doing Bill things, and Keith and Ronnie are mixed farther back than they are today.

Keith is not as far from this as it might seem (if he could use this guitar and rig today). But you’d still be missing the key ingredients of Charlie and Bill:

[youtu.be]

(International Rock Awards broadcast, 1990. Frankfurt? Hanover?)

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GasLightStreet
Ronnie's live solos have been outstanding, for me from 1994 to at least up through the LICKS tour, on Tumbling Dice, Start Me Up, Shattered, Dead Flowers. But he's not really a soloist.

Possibly his finest moment in regard to a slide solo is in Out Of Tears.

Ronnie's playing in this version of Start Me Up, including his melodic lines toward the end with the variations on the bending he does, is excellent.

I fully agree with you GLS. Just like to add (whether you like the song or not) that I vividly remember Ronnie's solo on Streets Of Love in 2006, San Siro, Milan, Italy. I found the album solo plain and without imagination. The "San Siro" solo would really have lifted up that song! Ronnie can do really great solo's if he catches the right inspiration.


I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

There are great solos by Ronnie, however in the B&B the respective guitarists had already played on those songs, who by the way did a great job, so it wouldn't have made sense to do otherwise.
Ronnie is not the classic lead guitarist, nor was Brian and Keith is not, they are great guitarists, but solos were never the most important thing for them.
My guitar teacher always told me, unlike what you think, the most difficult and important thing is to play the rhythm guitar, everyone does it, but few do it well.

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Testify
There are great solos by Ronnie, however in the B&B the respective guitarists had already played on those songs, who by the way did a great job, so it wouldn't have made sense to do otherwise.
Ronnie is not the classic lead guitarist, nor was Brian and Keith is not, they are great guitarists, but solos were never the most important thing for them.
My guitar teacher always told me, unlike what you think, the most difficult and important thing is to play the rhythm guitar, everyone does it, but few do it well.

Ask your teacher about Brian's rhythm guitar contributions to the early 64/65 Stones music. I personally think they are very contributive to the total mood of the songs. As were Keith's often sharp and short "solo" interceptions. Add Bill and Charlie's solid rhythm and that's how we got the best R&B/R&R band the 60s brought along

I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

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Shott
I like the solo on Blinded by Rainbows if that is Ronnie I always wondered.

Yes, that’s Ronnie, and you’re right. It’s great.

Edit: Also worth mentioning Crazy Mama. Sort of a melodic theme solo he has also done simillar to in other songs. Don’t Stop springs to mind as an example.

[www.reverbnation.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-15 00:36 by audun-eg.

Ronnie has played so many Stones solos from his pre-Stones days live... he's like the weather in regards to what happens.

Needs to be a Ronnie page about this particular subject. Why not? It's only been 46 years.

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MelBelli
Keith is not as far from this as it might seem (if he could use this guitar and rig today). But you’d still be missing the key ingredients of Charlie and Bill:

[youtu.be]

(International Rock Awards broadcast, 1990. Frankfurt? Hanover?)

Wow! I didn't know this exists. Great recording!

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Doxa

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matxil

Very good version

Indeed. Could be even the best live version of "Start Me Up" I ever have heard. Generally, I think when they opened the shows with it during 1989/90 tours they put so much effort, thought and concentration into it that it really worked well, and I see that as an expection in the history of "Start Me Up" played live. Usually they rush it through with no much concentration (1981/82) or just play it autopilot-like by saving energy as a sure crowd pleaser (almost any version since 1994). Or something. I don't know what is the problem. Probably being so damn simple and archaic as a tune, relying so much on their most obvious cliches, it is pretty difficult song to play convincingly live, even for them (and any no-Stones band, please don't even try). But in 1989/90 they showed it could be done.

- Doxa

I've given up on it as a live song, in the same way as Satisfaction or IORR. There's the way they NAIL IT on the record, and the way they choose to do it live. I accept it and don't think about it until I hear a version like say IORR by Mick b/w Foo Fighters on SNL. It's like HEY?! You CAN do it live!

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georgie48

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Testify
There are great solos by Ronnie, however in the B&B the respective guitarists had already played on those songs, who by the way did a great job, so it wouldn't have made sense to do otherwise.
Ronnie is not the classic lead guitarist, nor was Brian and Keith is not, they are great guitarists, but solos were never the most important thing for them.
My guitar teacher always told me, unlike what you think, the most difficult and important thing is to play the rhythm guitar, everyone does it, but few do it well.

Ask your teacher about Brian's rhythm guitar contributions to the early 64/65 Stones music. I personally think they are very contributive to the total mood of the songs. As were Keith's often sharp and short "solo" interceptions. Add Bill and Charlie's solid rhythm and that's how we got the best R&B/R&R band the 60s brought along

My guitar professor was not referring to the Rolling Stones.
Brian played in the RS harmonica and many other tools including the guitar is solo and rhythmic.
But what I meant, is that there is not only the guitar solo, personally I have always been attracted by guitar rhythmic, for this I love both Keith and Ronnie. The guitar solo is only a piece of guitar work.