Tell Me :
Talk
you know I agree - he's hammered up there - I'm not there to smell his breath but the way he walks - the goofy laughing - the "lost" look - that's not how he was acting early on in the tour and the videos prove it - Once he cut back his drinking his tolerance went down - happens to everybody - he was so much better earlier during the tour - maybe he started celebrating once he felt that they were in the groove - but in those Austin clips he looked and acted like a classic drunk guy - and I don't mean that to be insulting or disrespectful - most of that night for him was BAD - pathetically bad -
I wish him good luck tonight - i wish he would be on stage 20 years from now - I'm a fan and I love the guy - but save the hooch for after the show -
or at least when midimannz,falo or mine is done
I suspect he was drunk, too. However, the state of his fingers is a genuine, and the steady, gradual decline is, in part, because of this.
I agree 100% . no one can avoid the ravages of time , but old habits are unsustainable . Looks like he was sharper at the last show which is a relief.
HTW from Austin made me want to weep . I've loved the guy for over 40 years.
sc uk
It's been this way since the late 60s as if Mick can control Keith, it's obvious how happy the whole band are when Keith's straight, clean and serene, but how can Mick know mid tour what Keith will do, what can he do when it happens, it's too late to do anything, my guess is as long as Keith doesn't say horrible things in the press about him then Mick babies Keith along with love and loyalty, plus you must realise Mick knows Keith is the golden ticket to the BIG pay days, a million dollars per show, Mick will put up with that
Don't forget the drama too
John
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-24 19:49 by Rocktiludrop.
What is the Stones without a drama? This thread is a manifestation of that. When Keith manages to hit a right note or playing somehow accordingly to the song, he is hailed 'playing better' than 'name the year', doing a wonderful job or something, but when not, he is doomed to be drunk, stoned, senile or something.
Like I said earlier I don't see such drama. His heights or lows during this tour hasn't been that different or distinct compared to his doings during the last decade or so. On the long run, I think better to call it as AGING (which also explains why there might differences in quality between and within performances - you know, things like that happens when your power is not like it used to be. Weak or shit moments occur and one cannot do basically anything about it).
- Doxa
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-24 20:27 by Doxa.
Very true Doxa, and of course you are right but we all got our own unique spin on all things Stones, it's what makes them special in a way, the myths, the books, the survival, the incredible interest that never expires concerning this band.
In fact, the way the songs are arranged most of the time the piano player is more important than Keith and Ronnie. As long as the piano player plays the chords correctly and keeps control, Mick can go on doing this thing.
Well yes again Doxa, good points, you could be right, Keith was moving so well and playing very well and then he is not. Of course he could have an injury or an ache , the cold weather could make a difference, but could that explain the difference he exhibits when addressing the audience, the exagerated movements, the stagger, the unbalanced gait, the sentimentality, the change in expression between band members ??
Ok that's enough, you are a good guy Hairball, some truth in all you say, we are not that far apart actually in our view of the Stones.
Truce
Welcome to iorr, where all opinions & users aren’t equal.
Thats sound advice Rockman, I'm kinda like a sitting duck here, taking a long break see y'all in Europe next year all being well.
Talk about your favorite band.
For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
cowboytoast
()
Date: November 24, 2021 02:40
Quote
straycatuk
He's a Hero ..............and a drunk . If anyone can think his performance in Austin was a sober one, they are kidding themselves . I've heard all the arguments about "he's experimenting", "he's weaving", " It's what he does" and my favourite " you try playing in a stadium at 77 "
The thing is I'm not getting paid about a $ 1 Million a night .If he was going senile or his fingers were deteriorating why did he play the earlier shows almost note perfect with confidence . He hasn't been able to be the old "Keef" since 06 and the accident. He used to use Coke to recover from the drinking. I've seen bad nights in person in 06, 07, 16 and 17 and although I wasn't there on Saturday the recordings don't lie .
Please stop drinking or just stop . Embarrassing and very very sad
sc uk
you know I agree - he's hammered up there - I'm not there to smell his breath but the way he walks - the goofy laughing - the "lost" look - that's not how he was acting early on in the tour and the videos prove it - Once he cut back his drinking his tolerance went down - happens to everybody - he was so much better earlier during the tour - maybe he started celebrating once he felt that they were in the groove - but in those Austin clips he looked and acted like a classic drunk guy - and I don't mean that to be insulting or disrespectful - most of that night for him was BAD - pathetically bad -
I wish him good luck tonight - i wish he would be on stage 20 years from now - I'm a fan and I love the guy - but save the hooch for after the show -
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Iggyrichards
()
Date: November 24, 2021 06:38
I love all these people that know exactly what is going on with Keith. He is freaking 78 years old and has lived one hell of a life and given me at least many years of great music and memories. Obviously his playing is suffering but instead of killing the guy maybe realize that we may be watching the end(of a great career)and appreciate what we have been given.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Justin
()
Date: November 24, 2021 09:10
Tonight in Hollywood, Keith (and the band for that matter) was absolutely on point. The early Keith of this tour returned tonight in full force. Despite the basic setlist it was a triumph for the band. You'll see when the live DVD is out.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
ProfessorWolf
()
Date: November 24, 2021 09:13
Quote
Justin
Tonight in Hollywood, Keith (and the band for that matter) was absolutely on point. The early Keith of this tour returned tonight in full force. Despite the basic setlist it was a triumph for the band. You'll see when the live DVD is out.
or at least when midimannz,falo or mine is done
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: November 24, 2021 13:35
Quote
straycatuk
He's a Hero ..............and a drunk . If anyone can think his performance in Austin was a sober one, they are kidding themselves . I've heard all the arguments about "he's experimenting", "he's weaving", " It's what he does" and my favourite " you try playing in a stadium at 77 "
The thing is I'm not getting paid about a $ 1 Million a night .If he was going senile or his fingers were deteriorating why did he play the earlier shows almost note perfect with confidence . He hasn't been able to be the old "Keef" since 06 and the accident. He used to use Coke to recover from the drinking. I've seen bad nights in person in 06, 07, 16 and 17 and although I wasn't there on Saturday the recordings don't lie .
Please stop drinking or just stop . Embarrassing and very very sad
sc uk
I suspect he was drunk, too. However, the state of his fingers is a genuine, and the steady, gradual decline is, in part, because of this.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
straycatuk
()
Date: November 24, 2021 15:32
Quote
Big AlQuote
straycatuk
He's a Hero ..............and a drunk . If anyone can think his performance in Austin was a sober one, they are kidding themselves . I've heard all the arguments about "he's experimenting", "he's weaving", " It's what he does" and my favourite " you try playing in a stadium at 77 "
The thing is I'm not getting paid about a $ 1 Million a night .If he was going senile or his fingers were deteriorating why did he play the earlier shows almost note perfect with confidence . He hasn't been able to be the old "Keef" since 06 and the accident. He used to use Coke to recover from the drinking. I've seen bad nights in person in 06, 07, 16 and 17 and although I wasn't there on Saturday the recordings don't lie .
Please stop drinking or just stop . Embarrassing and very very sad
sc uk
I suspect he was drunk, too. However, the state of his fingers is a genuine, and the steady, gradual decline is, in part, because of this.
I agree 100% . no one can avoid the ravages of time , but old habits are unsustainable . Looks like he was sharper at the last show which is a relief.
HTW from Austin made me want to weep . I've loved the guy for over 40 years.
sc uk
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: November 24, 2021 17:53
It's so weird, i say he's drinking and posters attack me, others say he's drunk and its ok.
I even stated and indicated the exact moment he started drinking on this tour .
I've read all the BS from posters hinting he has senile dementia , they don't have the know how to understand you don't have dementia all of a sudden after 7 shows of not having dementia, and then low and behold it goes away for the last show after having dementia for a lot of shows , its called drinking or not drinking, smoking weed or not. Why do you guys judge everything by the last show. Keith's been creating this pattern of inconsistency for 15 years, its not completely about age and fingers, it's about applying yourself like a professional or caving in to old habits.
I drop links to clips from YouTube showing various changes in performance and they don't get referenced, someone copies my link and the comments flow.
Its a crap shoot.
I even stated and indicated the exact moment he started drinking on this tour .
I've read all the BS from posters hinting he has senile dementia , they don't have the know how to understand you don't have dementia all of a sudden after 7 shows of not having dementia, and then low and behold it goes away for the last show after having dementia for a lot of shows , its called drinking or not drinking, smoking weed or not. Why do you guys judge everything by the last show. Keith's been creating this pattern of inconsistency for 15 years, its not completely about age and fingers, it's about applying yourself like a professional or caving in to old habits.
I drop links to clips from YouTube showing various changes in performance and they don't get referenced, someone copies my link and the comments flow.
Its a crap shoot.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
KeithNacho
()
Date: November 24, 2021 18:21
It is weird that Jagger tolerate this lack of responsability. There must be other causes gor this
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: November 24, 2021 18:43
Quote
KeithNacho
It is weird that Jagger tolerate this lack of responsability. There must be other causes gor this
It's been this way since the late 60s as if Mick can control Keith, it's obvious how happy the whole band are when Keith's straight, clean and serene, but how can Mick know mid tour what Keith will do, what can he do when it happens, it's too late to do anything, my guess is as long as Keith doesn't say horrible things in the press about him then Mick babies Keith along with love and loyalty, plus you must realise Mick knows Keith is the golden ticket to the BIG pay days, a million dollars per show, Mick will put up with that
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 24, 2021 19:10
Jeez, how much speculation...
- Doxa
- Doxa
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Maindefender
()
Date: November 24, 2021 19:19
Noticed the video of Keith sitting at beginning of Gimme Shelter. I think the sitting speaks to him being able to hold the guitar higher and playing notes easier as opposed to how low he holds while standing up. Hw essentially right over the strings. I believe Keith realizes these struggles, many on this board had discussed earlier how low Keith holds his instrument.....
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: November 24, 2021 19:46
Quote
Doxa
Jeez, how much speculation...
- Doxa
Don't forget the drama too
John
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-24 19:49 by Rocktiludrop.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Bjorn
()
Date: November 24, 2021 19:50
Seen Keith holding Mick´s hand lately? Like, at the beginning of this tour? No, that energy is gone. Last night I listened to Bob Dylan instead. 2:nd show Beacon Theatre. 12-15 rare songs and no warhorses and great sound on Youtube. Very enjoyable. Cozy. Christmas-spirit. Snow. Candles. Just like Springsteen, Neil Young - he keep things alive, in constant change. And he is NOT drunk, pretending to be 18. And a half. 
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 24, 2021 20:10
Quote
RocktiludropQuote
Doxa
Jeez, how much speculation...
- Doxa
Don't forget the drama too
John
What is the Stones without a drama? This thread is a manifestation of that. When Keith manages to hit a right note or playing somehow accordingly to the song, he is hailed 'playing better' than 'name the year', doing a wonderful job or something, but when not, he is doomed to be drunk, stoned, senile or something.
Like I said earlier I don't see such drama. His heights or lows during this tour hasn't been that different or distinct compared to his doings during the last decade or so. On the long run, I think better to call it as AGING (which also explains why there might differences in quality between and within performances - you know, things like that happens when your power is not like it used to be. Weak or shit moments occur and one cannot do basically anything about it).
- Doxa
Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-24 20:27 by Doxa.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: November 24, 2021 20:42
Quote
DoxaQuote
RocktiludropQuote
Doxa
Jeez, how much speculation...
- Doxa
Don't forget the drama too
John
What is the Stones without a drama? This thread is a manifestation of that. When Keith manages to hit a right note or playing somehow accordingly to the song, he is hailed 'playing better' than 'name the year', doing a wonderful job or something, but when not, he is doomed to be drunk, stoned, senile or something.
Like I said earlier I don't see such drama. His heights or lows during this tour hasn't been that different or distinct compared to his doings during the last decade or so. On the long run, I think better to call it as AGING (which also explains why there might differences in quality between and within performances - you know, things like that happens when your power is not like it used to be. Weak or shit moments occur and one cannot do basically anything about it).
- Doxa
Very true Doxa, and of course you are right but we all got our own unique spin on all things Stones, it's what makes them special in a way, the myths, the books, the survival, the incredible interest that never expires concerning this band.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 24, 2021 21:01
-
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-24 21:06 by Doxa.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-24 21:06 by Doxa.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: November 24, 2021 21:05
I also think that this idea if Keith makes mistakes, being uneven or even screwing things up, that it must be him taking some substances, is based on the old myth of him being immortal, a sort of Superman. No natural reasons affecting a normal old person do qualify to legendary Keef. So, there must be some other, extrensic reasons for that. For some odd reason the idea of him drinking, smoking weed, snorting etc. is somehow more alright or acceptable in the eyes of some diehard fans of his (and of a bigger audience, to be true). The idea of him actually aging, and that the (old) age - like it does for for any avarage, non-mortal person- is actually affecting on him or his performance, that's horrible to even think of... Keith myth lives on, and including some substances there, well, never that bad. A cool part of it, like always.
Just my observation.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-24 21:19 by Doxa.
Just my observation.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-24 21:19 by Doxa.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: November 24, 2021 21:22
-
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-24 21:28 by Stoneage.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-24 21:28 by Stoneage.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
matxil
()
Date: November 24, 2021 21:33
Quote
KeithNacho
It is weird that Jagger tolerate this lack of responsability. There must be other causes gor this
In fact, the way the songs are arranged most of the time the piano player is more important than Keith and Ronnie. As long as the piano player plays the chords correctly and keeps control, Mick can go on doing this thing.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: November 24, 2021 21:35
Quote
Doxa
I also think that this idea if Keith makes mistakes, being uneven or even screwing things up, that it must be him taking some substances, is based on the old myth of him being immortal, a sort of Superman. No natural reasons affecting a normal old person do qualify to legendary Keef. So, there must be some other, extrensic reasons for that. For some odd reason the idea of him drinking, smoking weed, snorting etc. is somehow more alright or acceptable in the eyes of some diehard fans of his (and of a bigger audience, to be true). The idea of him actually aging, and that the (old) age - like it does for for any avarage, non-mortal person- is actually affecting on him or his performance, that's horrible to even think of... Keith myth lives on, and including some substances there, well, never that bad. A cool part of it, like always.
Just my observation.
- Doxa
Well yes again Doxa, good points, you could be right, Keith was moving so well and playing very well and then he is not. Of course he could have an injury or an ache , the cold weather could make a difference, but could that explain the difference he exhibits when addressing the audience, the exagerated movements, the stagger, the unbalanced gait, the sentimentality, the change in expression between band members ??
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: November 24, 2021 21:47
Someone here sounds a bit wishy washy....what happened to the "I know with absolute certainty Keith is drunk again" theory...
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: November 24, 2021 21:59
Quote
Hairball
Someone here sounds a bit wishy washy....what happened to the "I know with absolute certainty Keith is drunk again" theory...
Ok that's enough, you are a good guy Hairball, some truth in all you say, we are not that far apart actually in our view of the Stones.
Truce
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Paddy
()
Date: November 25, 2021 00:12
Quote
Rocktiludrop
It's so weird, i say he's drinking and posters attack me, others say he's drunk and its ok.
I even stated and indicated the exact moment he started drinking on this tour .
I've read all the BS from posters hinting he has senile dementia , they don't have the know how to understand you don't have dementia all of a sudden after 7 shows of not having dementia, and then low and behold it goes away for the last show after having dementia for a lot of shows , its called drinking or not drinking, smoking weed or not. Why do you guys judge everything by the last show. Keith's been creating this pattern of inconsistency for 15 years, its not completely about age and fingers, it's about applying yourself like a professional or caving in to old habits.
I drop links to clips from YouTube showing various changes in performance and they don't get referenced, someone copies my link and the comments flow.
Its a crap shoot.
Welcome to iorr, where all opinions & users aren’t equal.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Paddy
()
Date: November 25, 2021 00:18
I don’t know how relevant this is, but the lower slung your guitar is, the harder it is to play SOME things. The angle of your wrist while playing low slung adds extra strain to your fretting hand. Slash is a guy who plays low slung, but you’ll notice he changes the way he’s holding the guitar when he hits some solos. He rests it on his knees at times. Keith playing the intro to Gimmie shelter sitting down last night is an example of how a small thing can help his playing.
I’ve never played a Les Paul Jr, how do they compare weight wise to Les Pauls?
I’ve never played a Les Paul Jr, how do they compare weight wise to Les Pauls?
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: November 25, 2021 00:27
Ya very very observant Rocktiludrop
but ya should stop ridin blind up inta ambush canyon ...
ROCKMAN
but ya should stop ridin blind up inta ambush canyon ...
ROCKMAN
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Paddy
()
Date: November 25, 2021 00:56
Quote
Rockman
Ya very very observant Rocktiludrop
but ya should stop ridin blind up inta ambush canyon ...
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: November 25, 2021 10:59
Quote
Rockman
Ya very very observant Rocktiludrop
but ya should stop ridin blind up inta ambush canyon ...
Thats sound advice Rockman, I'm kinda like a sitting duck here, taking a long break see y'all in Europe next year all being well.Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: November 25, 2021 11:38
Take it easy man ....
Stay safe ....
ROCKMAN
Stay safe ....
ROCKMAN
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Online Users
benstones , Big Al , ChrisL , detroitken , guytout59 , IsakSun , NashvilleBlues , NeddieFlanders , perkmo , rocknrollal , Rokyfan , RollingFreak , rubyeveryday , spunky , StonedRambler , stonenut356 , TheBluesHadaBaby
Guests:
1140
Record Number of Users:
206
on June 1, 2022 23:50
Record Number of Guests:
9627
on January 2, 2024 23:10