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Rocktiludrop

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retired_dog

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Rocktiludrop

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retired_dog

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Rocktiludrop

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Stoneage

Perhaps, Björn. The real downhill started in 2006 I guess. Up until that he still kept it up pretty good. I still think the 1968 to 1972 era was his best though. As it was for the band itself.

Totally agree, in 2003 he was still a force of nature, what happened between 2003 to 2005 is anyone's guess, we know the head injury was a major blow in 06' although there were nights like the Beacon Theatre and Austin Texas where he was pretty good.

Up to a few shows ago i actually thought Keith was back to 2003 form.

Wait a minute... wasn't that the very show that needed guitar overdubs by Pierre de Beauport to turn it into releasable quality?

Don't know about that but Micks vocals definitely sound overdubbed.

But as a "Stones expert" you should know your stuff; in this case, just look at the liner notes of the Biggest Bang DVD release, which, by the way, mention no overdubs by Mick, just:

"Additional Recordings – Dave Rouze, Pierre De Beauport"

Yes compared to you I'm definitely an expert, i don't need to read album covers to know who has had overdubbs and where, my ears tell me, not words on paper.

Either that or Mick just happened to come up with his greatest live vocal just as the cameras were rolling, what are the chances.

Self confidence is not necessarily a bad thing, but I sense that you gradually reach a point where it's time to take your medicine. Worried about you. No, really.

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bam

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RisingStone
On Keith.

Another factor I consider plays some role in this debate along with the ‘vividness effect’ I mentioned upthread (on p. 5) — ‘wishful thinking’. People don’t wanna see their hero decline. He does. Slowly or not, but surely. He is human. Like us. Like everybody else. Time waits for no one.

Yes true but what was revealing this tour was that it wasn't Keith's age responsible for his decline, it must have been something else because up until a few shows ago he played better and with more energy and focus than he had since 2006.

I don’t think the decline is as steady as you depict it. There have been better or worse shows each tour. Keith played very well at some of the 2013 shows, for example, and was up and down over the past few years.

He played with more consistent focus at the beginning of this tour, but the energy level wasn’t as high as many of the earlier tours the past decade.

Yes Keith was spot on at the Fonda gig.

I think we've all worked out by now that Keith's inconsistency is down to drinking, hangovers etc, I'm just surprised he gets away with it, he's still in good health.

It's obvious that off and on he still drinks to varying degrees. Crazy but amazing at the same time, Keith definitely likes to do life and touring the hard way, basically he's a shy man, it's hard to be that Keith Richards in front of 60,000 people without something to alter his consciousness.
If you really thought about it it would paralyse you facing those kind of audiences knowing how easily it is to @#$%& up with those fingers.

Seriously, what drives you? You are not Keith, you don't know Keith, you don't know the circumstances.

But what we really know is that they're old men who are still doing an incredibly good job, maybe not like in their prime, but that would be supernatural, and those who believe that are a bit... let's say, removed from reality.

Why not conclude that any occasional flaws in their performances most likely have something to do with their age - and that we all simply don't know anything else?

Do you really think you serve your hero by theorizing about "drinking, hangovers" and what else?

OMG retired-dog, you go from admitting you enjoy winding me up saying I'm an easy target to this, are you kidding me, we're talking Keith Richards, you really think it's out of order for posters to imply his performances might have involved a few too many drinks or occasional hangover, seriously ?? That's crossing the line is it ?
We are talking about Keith's inconsistent performances over the past 15 years, what he is doing now is mighty impressive but it lends some of us to think hey, if he can be this good what was going on before, it's fascinating to me.

Just look at Ronnie and how he has improved since he stopped drinking, it's a huge difference, I find that interesting, sorry about that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-09 23:00 by Rocktiludrop.

Surely you two have better things to do with your time?

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erad
Surely you two have better things to do with your time?

Defiantly but he attacks and i feel compelled to defend, I'd rather we stay away from each other tbh

It's unpleasant to be on the receiving end, but do you just go away and let a few morons win. Not me . Never.

I don't often agree with your views Riffie but I consider you a good sport

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Nikkei
I don't often agree with your views Riffie but I consider you a good sport

Aw ditto mate.

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erad
Surely you two have better things to do with your time?

Defiantly but he attacks and i feel compelled to defend, I'd rather we stay away from each other tbh

It's unpleasant to be on the receiving end, but do you just go away and let a few morons win. Not me . Never.

Yeah, this good 'ole "last man standing"-syndrom. I'm impressed.

Honestly, your posts tell more about yourself than about Keith Richards - whom you do no favour at all. In fact you embarrass your idol without any solid facts. I don't "attack", I just create awareness that's obviously lacking on your side.

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erad
Surely you two have better things to do with your time?

Defiantly but he attacks and i feel compelled to defend, I'd rather we stay away from each other tbh

It's unpleasant to be on the receiving end, but do you just go away and let a few morons win. Not me . Never.

Yeah, this good 'ole "last man standing"-syndrom. I'm impressed.

Honestly, your posts tell more about yourself than about Keith Richards - whom you do no favour at all. In fact you embarrass your idol without any solid facts. I don't "attack", I just create awareness that's obviously lacking on your side.

Ok can we just drop it now, we are all obsessed with this band in some way or another or we wouldn't be here.

ROCKMAN

Keith is still a good rythmplayer,but soloing no,please no more solos from Keith.He is not able to do that anymore.Probably because of his fingers.But the rythm and the riffs works good anyway

I didn't notice while watching live via youtube with others here on IORR, but evidently Keith seemed to be on auto-pilot/cruise control in Vegas...as if his mind was elsewhere and out of focus on the task at hand.
Having revisited a few clips the past couple of days (Happy and Midnight Rambler), he seemed the same to me with the standard sloppiness and botched screw-ups, but maybe it was more noticeable in person.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-10 00:44 by Hairball.

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harlem shuffle
Keith is still a good rythmplayer,but soloing no,please no more solos from Keith.He is not able to do that anymore.Probably because of his fingers.But the rythm and the riffs works good anyway

Some solos, like the one in Honky tonk women, sound very well and I am glad he does it.

The last few shows have been a bit concerning. While every show is a gift, Keith's energy is down, for whatever reason, and he's not playing as much or as well as the beginning of the tour.

I know I sound like a broken record on this topic, but it’s so ironic that it bears repeating: as Keith and Ronnie have naturally declined, their rigs have gotten simpler, especially since 2012. I suspect the reason is that PA systems have gotten so much more powerful and sophisticated — you don’t need to move as much air as you did in the ‘70s and ‘80s. Small amps — or even no amps at all! — are sufficient.

This is all true, as far as it goes. But I don’t care who the player is or how old he is: if you’re playing straight through a Fender Twin, your signal as dry as a bone, you’re going to sound like Keith does. If Robben Ford or Larry Carlton played through Keith’s rig, the phrases might be more complex, the execution might be flawless, but I guarantee you they’d be frustrated as hell.

Remember Bruce Springsteen after his 2012 guest appearance? He remarked (with glee) that the Stones were playing through the same amps he did when he was 16!

That is true — and it’s not good. As Bruce, again, has noted, touring amplification changes about every five years.

Keith and Ronnie have gone *backwards* in time. And they’ve done so even as their chops need help: some delay, a little bit of “wetness” to prevent the need to play “hard.” As a result, they fight their guitars. Their decline as musicians is real, and to be expected. But they are making it harder on themselves for reasons I can’t fathom.

I do not agree. Especially Keith's setup fits his style perfectly. No need to change.

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jumpingjackflash5
I do not agree. Especially Keith's setup fits his style perfectly. No need to change.

This is about as good a single-line guitar solo as Keith Richards, in any era, will ever play live. If you gave him, in 1990, the Tweed Twin and Les Paul Jr. he’s playing now, he wouldn’t have been able to do it.

[youtu.be]

Mathijs could probably tell you chapter and verse what gear they were using in that clip. I know Keith was soloing through a Marshall or Soldano head. But it’s not just overdrive or gain; there is some delay and/or modulation in that signal. Ronnie has it, too. It gives the notes a subtle “bloom” or “halo.” When Ronnie soloed on YCAGWYW back then, he could make it sing or soar with ease; listen to his solo on “Flashpoint.”

All I’m hearing now from Ronnie on YCAGWYW is gain. His lines are virtually the same as in ‘89-90, but he’s not getting the response from the guitar and amp that he did back then. I call it “fighting” the guitar. Anyone who’s ever played live must know exactly what I’m talking about.

The difference is, their resources are inexhaustible — they are *choosing* to do this!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-16 17:55 by MelBelli.

Here is Ronnie using what sounds like the same compression and phaser he used in ‘78 and ‘81:

[youtu.be]

The lines are the same as he attempts today. But they “sing.”

One more example: Midnight Rambler, 1989, Atlantic City. Granted, they were under a roof, and the house blend sounds very good. But both Keith and Ronnie sound cleaner, slightly “wetter.” Same licks; different rigs and setups.

[youtu.be]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-16 19:20 by MelBelli.

I hate the tone they had in 89/90. Imo it has aged badly and didn't Mathijs once write they retired the Soldanos mid-tour.
[iorr.org]

FF to 94. I quote Keith loosely here but he said sth like "it took me a lifetime to realize Fender guitars sound best when paired with Fender amps". And iirc that was the time he introduced a Fender Twin (#3 or 4) onstage.

Keith despises using modern gear like in-ear monitors just as he despises facelifts... (yeah that's a jab at Brooce).
He's probably seen more gear trends (active pick-ups, racked amps, amp simulators) that came and went that he probably doesn't give a damn about gear at all anymore.
I mean if you have 50's guitars and 50's amps (and a stash of vintage tubes that'll outlast him) why bother?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-16 19:37 by dcba.

I’m 99% certain you’re right about why Keith chooses to sound the way he does.

There’s no accounting for taste in tone. My main point here is to say that we’re exaggerating the effects of age on both of them.

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MelBelli
There’s no accounting for taste in tone. My main point here is to say that we’re exaggerating the effects of age on both of them.

It’s not the tone/choice of gear that’s been causing him to simplify his playing, sit down mid-set, etc. As folks have observed in the threads about recent shows, he seems to be less consistent and have less energy the last few gigs of this tour.

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MelBelli
There’s no accounting for taste in tone. My main point here is to say that we’re exaggerating the effects of age on both of them.

It’s not the tone/choice of gear that’s been causing him to simplify his playing, sit down mid-set, etc. As folks have observed in the threads about recent shows, he seems to be less consistent and have less energy the last few gigs of this tour.

Keith is gradually losing his touch or just doesn't seem to care anymore as this tour winds down.
What started out as an energetic bolt of lightning less than two months ago, is becoming a burnt out bulb...
I love Keith and always have, but it's a bit sad to these types of reviews from the press that have nothing good to say about him...

[www.detroitnews.com]

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-16 21:17 by Hairball.

I wouldn’t read too much into the Detroit News critic’s take. My guess is, if he’d been to one of the first few shows, he would have made the same observations. And people here get overhyped at the beginning of every tour.

I've seen the decline with my own eyes and ears having watched every show online as well as attending the two shows in L.A. where he was still focused for the most part.
Seems more and more he's a bit off and then on...off and on...sporadic greatness interspersed with out of focus/nonchalant autopilot mode.

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-16 21:51 by Hairball.

I’ll take your word for it.

But the playing seems fine from both of them on MR.

The tone is just godawful. For the life of me, I don’t know how they can find it satisfying:

[youtu.be]

Nails on a chalkboard, and that includes Ronnie.

Lol.
"He was laser focused.. but only at the shows I was at "

He's been consistently focused throughout.. couple miscues is above par for Keith.
Brava Keith!! Amazing



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-16 22:01 by MisterDDDD.

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MelBelli
I’ll take your word for it.

But the playing seems fine from both of them on MR.

The tone is just godawful. For the life of me, I don’t know how they can find it satisfying:

[youtu.be]

Nails on a chalkboard, and that includes Ronnie.

Yes, some of the playing is fine , and other times Keith is simply "lost in space".
It's clear to many he has other things on his mind, and seems the peak was in Minneapolis with a steady downhill spiral since then...

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Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

In Atlanta, Keith was very inconsistent-Played some songs great, some songs he seemed to disappear.....What was most concerning was his physical condition- SEVERAL times he sat down on stage on a bench directly in front of the Drum Kit, haven’t seen him do that before. He also disappeared completely behind the drum kit on multiple songs for at least half the songs, seemed he was ill possibly? Either way, he did play very well on multiple occasions, but folks I was around kept saying “Keith doesn’t seem well”.......