Tell Me :
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Yeah i thought Micks vocals were very week too, wasn't comfortable listening to SSS at all, the song is so disappointing in comparison to 89' 90' tours, but what I'm saying is how does Keith not hear his own guitar, normally you would say to a person playing like that you have to be stoned or high to not realise you are playing in the wrong key for the entire length of the solo.
When I took my son to see the Stones (for his first Stones gig) in Toronto at the Air Canada Centre in 5/2013, I was sitting high up in the cheap seats where I could hear Keith's guitar rather distinctly, and I thought his playing was ragged and off that night. In particular, he played off key during one particular tune (I can't remember if it was on Gimme Shelter?), but very similar to what he did on Sad Sad Sad. IMHO, of the 15 Stones shows that I have caught since the 1970's (and even though they had Mick Taylor with them in 2013), that one ranks near the bottom for me and I attributed that to Keith's overall lackluster playing that night.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-30 23:58 by Sighunt.
I agree. And I’ll say it again Keith is not playing any better or worst than previous tours. It’s a hit and miss from show to show not tour to tour
Totally disagree, he's messed up a few SFTD solos with his meet and greet and messed up in SSS, other than that he is playing much better than in 2019 in my opinion, plus he's leading the band and has more energy, he just needs to leave the weed alone until after the show.
Elegant litotes. Well put.
No you are so wrong And clueless. Have you ever been to a Stones concert. I doubt it.
As a guitar player myself (I don't claim to be a virtuoso by any stretch, but would rate myself as an intermediate player who jams informally with other guitar wanna-be middle age types like myself around town), I really try to listen hard to what Keith and Ronnie are doing on record as well as live in concert in order to pick up some tips for my own playing.
With that being said, OVERALL, I would have to agree with More Hot Rocks assessment.
I know some people on this board will vehemently disagree with me on this, but from my perspective, the last tour where I felt that Keith was firing on all cylinders and playing well & CONSISTENTLY (from night to night) was on the Steel Wheels tour.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-31 02:24 by Sighunt.
Troll
I tend to agree with these views, more or less, although Mathijs’ comment — “What's the use now to discuss Keith's playing? It's awful. Mick's singing? Horrible. Steve Jordan? Brings energy but no swing” — sounds a bit harsh to me.
On a personal level, I can’t remember I have come across a more exciting play from Keith than the thunderous, earth-shattering solo on SFTD on the Steel Wheels tour between then and now.
If I add something to the ongoing debate from my experiences of countless concert-going — ‘vividness effect’. The latest show you have just seen and heard often leaves you in a state of mind that makes you feel, “This is their best show I’ve ever seen,” and such. Sometime after, when you calm down and reflect the matter, you start to feel differently, comparing the shows from the past you have been to, and think, “Hmm...there may have been a better one.” Same can be applied to each player’s performance unfolded in front of you.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-31 05:41 by RisingStone.
They have extremely reduced solos over the years. Then at least the solos they play should be good or at least conform to occidental harmony theory. I would be happy if Mick Taylor was back, but to play halfway coherent solos, the skills of Keith and Ronnie are actually enough. They just have to want to do it. They should respect their audience.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-31 11:58 by StonedRambler.
This is what I’m trying to say in my post above, in other expression.
It's not making drama , when an old pro like Keith is completely unaware that he is in the wrong key for the duration of a solo something is wrong, we're not talking about a few bum notes.
I think what happens is Keith starts tours really trying hard and concentrating on his playing and also making sure the band are getting tight, then he gets past the half way mark and and thinks ok I've got it in the can now I'm going to enjoy myself.
That's when problems start, he starts to see it as a victory lap, he maybe has a few too many, it's amazing that at 78 he handles it but that doesn't impress me anymore as a fan, I want to see him go to another gear and improve on what he has done and keep improving, we just don't get that from Keith since 2003.
I think it just becomes a party for him and then he gets erratic, it's who he is, it's worrying at his age to say the least, also childish of him to keep trying to be Keith Richards, you could see Mick was distant to him last night compared to other nights.
It is what it is and Keith almost pulls it off, maybe 4 days between shows is too long for Keith to go without getting bored, it's a long time hanging round in hotels between concerts, i know I'd get bored and hit the bar, i don't blame him really, we don't all have the self control of Mick and Ronnie.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-01 00:56 by Rocktiludrop.
Agree with all that but if you know Keith there are tell tell signs, he handles it so well people like yourself can't tell the difference.
Hopefully he stops before it's too late, you don't want to be jumping around at 78 for two hours with alcohol inside you.
Yes he was so happy about his performance onstage in that interview and then he said its going to be a great tour if we continue to behave ourselves, it was in his mind then.
People like Keith get so much energy when sober they don't know what to do with it, they don't know what to do with themselves, imagine waiting in the Hotel 4 or 5 days to the next show.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-31 13:57 by Rocktiludrop.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
TheBlockbuster
()
Date: October 30, 2021 22:04
It's just a classic Keef mess up, don't take it so hard.
He has played the same kind of solos for years now:
He has played the same kind of solos for years now:
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: October 30, 2021 22:55
Nothing beats Keith's lead playing on this:
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: October 30, 2021 23:12
Quote
Sighunt
Actually, had he played in key, it would have been a decent Keith type solo. On that tune, I wish Mick would have strapped on an extra guitar to put a little meat on the bones of Sad Sad Sad the way he did during the Steel Wheels tour.
Yeah i thought Micks vocals were very week too, wasn't comfortable listening to SSS at all, the song is so disappointing in comparison to 89' 90' tours, but what I'm saying is how does Keith not hear his own guitar, normally you would say to a person playing like that you have to be stoned or high to not realise you are playing in the wrong key for the entire length of the solo.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Sighunt
()
Date: October 30, 2021 23:53
Quote
RocktiludropQuote
Sighunt
Actually, had he played in key, it would have been a decent Keith type solo. On that tune, I wish Mick would have strapped on an extra guitar to put a little meat on the bones of Sad Sad Sad the way he did during the Steel Wheels tour.
Yeah i thought Micks vocals were very week too, wasn't comfortable listening to SSS at all, the song is so disappointing in comparison to 89' 90' tours, but what I'm saying is how does Keith not hear his own guitar, normally you would say to a person playing like that you have to be stoned or high to not realise you are playing in the wrong key for the entire length of the solo.
When I took my son to see the Stones (for his first Stones gig) in Toronto at the Air Canada Centre in 5/2013, I was sitting high up in the cheap seats where I could hear Keith's guitar rather distinctly, and I thought his playing was ragged and off that night. In particular, he played off key during one particular tune (I can't remember if it was on Gimme Shelter?), but very similar to what he did on Sad Sad Sad. IMHO, of the 15 Stones shows that I have caught since the 1970's (and even though they had Mick Taylor with them in 2013), that one ranks near the bottom for me and I attributed that to Keith's overall lackluster playing that night.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-30 23:58 by Sighunt.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
More Hot Rocks
()
Date: October 31, 2021 00:03
Quote
harlem shuffle
It,s so terrible i hardly can believe it.No more solos for Keith now.It,s embarrasing
I agree. And I’ll say it again Keith is not playing any better or worst than previous tours. It’s a hit and miss from show to show not tour to tour
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: October 31, 2021 00:47
Quote
More Hot RocksQuote
harlem shuffle
It,s so terrible i hardly can believe it.No more solos for Keith now.It,s embarrasing
I agree. And I’ll say it again Keith is not playing any better or worst than previous tours. It’s a hit and miss from show to show not tour to tour
Totally disagree, he's messed up a few SFTD solos with his meet and greet and messed up in SSS, other than that he is playing much better than in 2019 in my opinion, plus he's leading the band and has more energy, he just needs to leave the weed alone until after the show.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: October 31, 2021 01:02
Quote
Mathijs
I think that at this age, and at this stage in their career the Stones should not be judged on their musical abilities anymore.
Mathijs
Elegant litotes. Well put.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Cooltoplady
()
Date: October 31, 2021 01:11
Quote
RocktiludropQuote
More Hot RocksQuote
harlem shuffle
It,s so terrible i hardly can believe it.No more solos for Keith now.It,s embarrasing
I agree. And I’ll say it again Keith is not playing any better or worst than previous tours. It’s a hit and miss from show to show not tour to tour
Totally disagree, he's messed up a few SFTD solos with his meet and greet and messed up in SSS, other than that he is playing much better than in 2019 in my opinion, plus he's leading the band and has more energy, he just needs to leave the weed alone until after the show.
No you are so wrong And clueless. Have you ever been to a Stones concert. I doubt it.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Sighunt
()
Date: October 31, 2021 02:20
Quote
More Hot RocksQuote
harlem shuffle
It,s so terrible i hardly can believe it.No more solos for Keith now.It,s embarrasing
I agree. And I’ll say it again Keith is not playing any better or worst than previous tours. It’s a hit and miss from show to show not tour to tour
As a guitar player myself (I don't claim to be a virtuoso by any stretch, but would rate myself as an intermediate player who jams informally with other guitar wanna-be middle age types like myself around town), I really try to listen hard to what Keith and Ronnie are doing on record as well as live in concert in order to pick up some tips for my own playing.
With that being said, OVERALL, I would have to agree with More Hot Rocks assessment.
I know some people on this board will vehemently disagree with me on this, but from my perspective, the last tour where I felt that Keith was firing on all cylinders and playing well & CONSISTENTLY (from night to night) was on the Steel Wheels tour.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-31 02:24 by Sighunt.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: October 31, 2021 02:32
Based on last nights variety of snafus and missteps, Keith might have already peaked this tour (thinking L.A. #2 or maybe Minneapolis might have been the pinnacle),
and is currently on cruise control heading downhill on a one way street with his eyes on the finish line - ie family time, rest, a long nap, and vacation.
The pressure is on and all eyes (and ears) will be on Keith to see if he can rebound from Tampa...hope so, otherwise it will be "Sad, Sad, Sad" again.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
and is currently on cruise control heading downhill on a one way street with his eyes on the finish line - ie family time, rest, a long nap, and vacation.
The pressure is on and all eyes (and ears) will be on Keith to see if he can rebound from Tampa...hope so, otherwise it will be "Sad, Sad, Sad" again.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: October 31, 2021 02:42
Quote
CooltopladyQuote
RocktiludropQuote
More Hot RocksQuote
harlem shuffle
It,s so terrible i hardly can believe it.No more solos for Keith now.It,s embarrasing
I agree. And I’ll say it again Keith is not playing any better or worst than previous tours. It’s a hit and miss from show to show not tour to tour
Totally disagree, he's messed up a few SFTD solos with his meet and greet and messed up in SSS, other than that he is playing much better than in 2019 in my opinion, plus he's leading the band and has more energy, he just needs to leave the weed alone until after the show.
No you are so wrong And clueless. Have you ever been to a Stones concert. I doubt it.
Troll
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: October 31, 2021 02:04
It's hard to get pissed off with Keith for long this tour when he bounces back with blistering performances like this, you just have to forgive him because you know he will make up for it, expect him to be better next show.
JJF
[m.youtube.com]
JJF
[m.youtube.com]
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Cooltoplady
()
Date: October 31, 2021 02:25
Quote
RocktiludropQuote
CooltopladyQuote
RocktiludropQuote
More Hot RocksQuote
harlem shuffle
It,s so terrible i hardly can believe it.No more solos for Keith now.It,s embarrasing
I agree. And I’ll say it again Keith is not playing any better or worst than previous tours. It’s a hit and miss from show to show not tour to tour
Totally disagree, he's messed up a few SFTD solos with his meet and greet and messed up in SSS, other than that he is playing much better than in 2019 in my opinion, plus he's leading the band and has more energy, he just needs to leave the weed alone until after the show.
No you are so wrong And clueless. Have you ever been to a Stones concert. I doubt it.
Little man
Troll
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Shawn20
()
Date: October 31, 2021 03:13
Keith killed it in Nashville! He was great! The SSS solo was not good - but I believe he will rebound in Dallas. I do hope they bring back 19th Nervous Breakdown - it was a highlight in Nashville.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: October 31, 2021 03:16
Just watching the rest of the show it looks like Keith might be up to his old tricks, Hopefully for his sake Tampa is just a bump in the road.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-01 00:53 by Rocktiludrop.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-01 00:53 by Rocktiludrop.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
RisingStone
()
Date: October 31, 2021 05:24
Quote
Mathijs
I think that at this age, and at this stage in their career the Stones should not be judged on their musical abilities anymore.
Quote
More Hot Rocks
Keith is not playing any better or worst than previous tours. It’s a hit and miss from show to show not tour to tour
Quote
Sighunt
I know some people on this board will vehemently disagree with me on this, but from my perspective, the last tour where I felt that Keith was firing on all cylinders and playing well & CONSISTENTLY (from night to night) was on the Steel Wheels tour.
I tend to agree with these views, more or less, although Mathijs’ comment — “What's the use now to discuss Keith's playing? It's awful. Mick's singing? Horrible. Steve Jordan? Brings energy but no swing” — sounds a bit harsh to me.
On a personal level, I can’t remember I have come across a more exciting play from Keith than the thunderous, earth-shattering solo on SFTD on the Steel Wheels tour between then and now.
If I add something to the ongoing debate from my experiences of countless concert-going — ‘vividness effect’. The latest show you have just seen and heard often leaves you in a state of mind that makes you feel, “This is their best show I’ve ever seen,” and such. Sometime after, when you calm down and reflect the matter, you start to feel differently, comparing the shows from the past you have been to, and think, “Hmm...there may have been a better one.” Same can be applied to each player’s performance unfolded in front of you.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-31 05:41 by RisingStone.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
RobertJohnson
()
Date: October 31, 2021 10:52
Overall, that's a bit much screwed up solos. Ronnie has been screwing up Start Me Up and Tumbling Dice for years. That's only music to a certain extent. Doesn't even stand out anymore. Keith keeps screwing up new songs. I really don't find that amusing. I don't think the band should be given a gaga discount.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
windmelody
()
Date: October 31, 2021 11:26
In my opinion Keith Richards played brilliantly for the last time during the BtB and NS tours 1997-1999.I have the impression, that Keith Richards and Ronnie Wood do not hear themselves during these solos. One may slip into a wrong key - but a normal reaction would be to stop immediately. To quote Robert Johnson's post above: These solos sound really gaga.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Rambler62
()
Date: October 31, 2021 11:27
They have no good sologuitar player.A guest musician would be helpful (e.g. Waddy Wachtel,Earl Slick, Mick Taylor)Greetings
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-31 11:28 by Rambler62.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-31 11:28 by Rambler62.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
RobertJohnson
()
Date: October 31, 2021 11:40
Quote
Rambler62
They have no good sologuitar player.A guest musician would be helpful (e.g. Waddy Wachtel,Earl Slick, Mick Taylor)Greetings
They have extremely reduced solos over the years. Then at least the solos they play should be good or at least conform to occidental harmony theory. I would be happy if Mick Taylor was back, but to play halfway coherent solos, the skills of Keith and Ronnie are actually enough. They just have to want to do it. They should respect their audience.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
yeababyyea
()
Date: October 31, 2021 11:46
Phase 1: Keith's playing is better than in years!
Phase 2: They haven't been this good since 1999!
Phase 3: Keith messed up! What was he thinking!?
Phase 4: Keith is heading downhill and needs to rest
Phase 5: They should retire
Phase 2: They haven't been this good since 1999!
Phase 3: Keith messed up! What was he thinking!?
Phase 4: Keith is heading downhill and needs to rest
Phase 5: They should retire
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
StonedRambler
()
Date: October 31, 2021 11:57
Yeah, totally rediculous how a thread called "Keith's playing better this tour" is now turning to "he should call it a day" because of ONE screwed up solo on Sad Sad Sad. I said at the beginning of this tour that he plays about the same he played since 2012, he's only more vital and fit on stage. People always are looking for sensations and tend to get overly excited so at the start of every tour you are hearing the usual "they're paying better than ever". Your own emotions are not always reality. Truth is that Keith is playing solid like most of the time since 2012. And now and then he has his usual screw-ups which also do not mean the end of the world. No reason to make a drama out of it.Quote
yeababyyea
Phase 1: Keith's playing is better than in years!
Phase 2: They haven't been this good since 1999!
Phase 3: Keith messed up! What was he thinking!?
Phase 4: Keith is heading downhill and needs to rest
Phase 5: They should retire
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-31 11:58 by StonedRambler.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
RisingStone
()
Date: October 31, 2021 12:32
Quote
StonedRambler
People always are looking for sensations and tend to get overly excited so at the start of every tour you are hearing the usual "they're paying better than ever". Your own emotions are not always reality.
This is what I’m trying to say in my post above, in other expression.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: October 31, 2021 12:34
Quote
StonedRamblerYeah, totally rediculous how a thread called "Keith's playing better this tour" is now turning to "he should call it a day" because of ONE screwed up solo on Sad Sad Sad. I said at the beginning of this tour that he plays about the same he played since 2012, he's only more vital and fit on stage. People always are looking for sensations and tend to get overly excited so at the start of every tour you are hearing the usual "they're paying better than ever". Your own emotions are not always reality. Truth is that Keith is playing solid like most of the time since 2012. And now and then he has his usual screw-ups which also do not mean the end of the world. No reason to make a drama out of it.Quote
yeababyyea
Phase 1: Keith's playing is better than in years!
Phase 2: They haven't been this good since 1999!
Phase 3: Keith messed up! What was he thinking!?
Phase 4: Keith is heading downhill and needs to rest
Phase 5: They should retire
It's not making drama , when an old pro like Keith is completely unaware that he is in the wrong key for the duration of a solo something is wrong, we're not talking about a few bum notes.
I think what happens is Keith starts tours really trying hard and concentrating on his playing and also making sure the band are getting tight, then he gets past the half way mark and and thinks ok I've got it in the can now I'm going to enjoy myself.
That's when problems start, he starts to see it as a victory lap, he maybe has a few too many, it's amazing that at 78 he handles it but that doesn't impress me anymore as a fan, I want to see him go to another gear and improve on what he has done and keep improving, we just don't get that from Keith since 2003.
I think it just becomes a party for him and then he gets erratic, it's who he is, it's worrying at his age to say the least, also childish of him to keep trying to be Keith Richards, you could see Mick was distant to him last night compared to other nights.
It is what it is and Keith almost pulls it off, maybe 4 days between shows is too long for Keith to go without getting bored, it's a long time hanging round in hotels between concerts, i know I'd get bored and hit the bar, i don't blame him really, we don't all have the self control of Mick and Ronnie.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2021-11-01 00:56 by Rocktiludrop.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Bjorn
()
Date: October 31, 2021 12:59
Yes, I felt that something was wrong too, the other night. He was drinking again. Agree totally. Too bad, too sad - after that interview: "We have a great feeling right now, I´m covering for Mick and he for me!!!" Back to the same old story again. Too sad. I´m very sensitive to energies...Very childish indeed...
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
StonedRambler
()
Date: October 31, 2021 13:33
When stage monitoring is really loud it is possible you lose your reference to pitch since overtones can cover up and interfere each other. It is a physical phenomenon that many musicans might know especially when playing small clubs where the sound bounces around in the room. That's why for many inexperienced singers on stage it might feel like their singing in tune but when they listen to recordings they notice they were singing off-key. It's also something that happened to Mick e.g. on "Anybody Seen My Baby" in Buenos Aires 2016 or "2000 light years" in Glastonburg 2013. Many times in recent years Keith started solos in a wrong key (just listen to the Hamburg concert or the unedited OOC from Havana). Normally he notices it immediately. This time he didn't probably to the situation described above. He played perfectly normal for the rest of the concert. No reason to make up theories like "he drinks again" or stuff like that...
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
StonedRambler
()
Date: October 31, 2021 13:42
Didn't read that post until now, you described it well. I also experienced that many times myself. Often your own mood, your energy level, how much sleep you got the night before and the people around you play a huge factor in how you might perceive a concert. If all that is positive on a certain night it feels like the best concert you have ever seen and all the mistakes and bum notes do not matter to you. Humans are completely relative and subjective creatures.Quote
RisingStoneQuote
StonedRambler
People always are looking for sensations and tend to get overly excited so at the start of every tour you are hearing the usual "they're paying better than ever". Your own emotions are not always reality.
This is what I’m trying to say in my post above, in other expression.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: October 31, 2021 13:47
Quote
StonedRamblerDidn't read that post until now, you described it well. I also experienced that many times myself. Often your own mood, your energy level, how much sleep you got the night before and the people around you play a huge factor in how you might perceive a concert. If all that is positive on a certain night it feels like the best concert you have ever seen and all the mistakes and bum notes do not matter to you. Humans are completely relative and subjective creatures.Quote
RisingStoneQuote
StonedRambler
People always are looking for sensations and tend to get overly excited so at the start of every tour you are hearing the usual "they're paying better than ever". Your own emotions are not always reality.
This is what I’m trying to say in my post above, in other expression.
Agree with all that but if you know Keith there are tell tell signs, he handles it so well people like yourself can't tell the difference.
Hopefully he stops before it's too late, you don't want to be jumping around at 78 for two hours with alcohol inside you.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: October 31, 2021 13:52
Quote
Bjorn
Yes, I felt that something was wrong too, the other night. He was drinking again. Agree totally. Too bad, too sad - after that interview: "We have a great feeling right now, I´m covering for Mick and he for me!!!" Back to the same old story again. Too sad. I´m very sensitive to energies...Very childish indeed...
Yes he was so happy about his performance onstage in that interview and then he said its going to be a great tour if we continue to behave ourselves, it was in his mind then.
People like Keith get so much energy when sober they don't know what to do with it, they don't know what to do with themselves, imagine waiting in the Hotel 4 or 5 days to the next show.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-31 13:57 by Rocktiludrop.
Re: Keith's playing better this tour.
Posted by:
StonedRambler
()
Date: October 31, 2021 13:59
I hope you're treating your loved ones better than doubting everything they are and do just because they did one stupid mistake.
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