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Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: georgie48 ()
Date: October 21, 2021 11:37

Quote
Paddy
Quote
Cooltoplady
It’s probably been written but where were Mick and Keith going? And when was the next time they met? Weeks? Days?

[www.nme.com]

“ Richards was traveling to Sidcup Art College carrying his guitar on the day they met, while Jagger was en route to the London School of Economics carrying some records. The next year, they formed The Rolling Stones”

Not sure of the next time they met.... Did Keith borrow one of the 2 albums Mick had, he would have to meet him to give it back if so, or did he meet Mick to listen to them with him.... They all seemed to find each other or know of each other through Alexis Korner and his gigs/open Mike nights.

I think it’s covered in according to the rolling stones... been a while since I read it

It turned out they had a mutual friend/acquaintance ... Dick Taylor, another Blues lover. So that resulted in Little Boy Blue and the Blues Boys.You can easily find some B&W shots from some of those guys on the Internet.

I'm a GHOST living in a ghost town

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Date: October 21, 2021 11:42

Quote
georgie48
Quote
Paddy
Quote
Cooltoplady
It’s probably been written but where were Mick and Keith going? And when was the next time they met? Weeks? Days?

[www.nme.com]

“ Richards was traveling to Sidcup Art College carrying his guitar on the day they met, while Jagger was en route to the London School of Economics carrying some records. The next year, they formed The Rolling Stones”

Not sure of the next time they met.... Did Keith borrow one of the 2 albums Mick had, he would have to meet him to give it back if so, or did he meet Mick to listen to them with him.... They all seemed to find each other or know of each other through Alexis Korner and his gigs/open Mike nights.

I think it’s covered in according to the rolling stones... been a while since I read it

It turned out they had a mutual friend/acquaintance ... Dick Taylor, another Blues lover. So that resulted in Little Boy Blue and the Blues Boys.You can easily find some B&W shots from some of those guys on the Internet.

+ the recordings, of course smiling smiley





[www.youtube.com]

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: Green Lady ()
Date: October 21, 2021 11:58

See here (thanks 24FPS):

[iorr.org]

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: October 21, 2021 15:10

So, where is this plaque at Dartford station located, exactly? I use the station near-daily, yet have never noticed it. Dartford Borough Council have really revved-up the town’s Mick and Keith connection in recent years. It is a significant link, true, though it doesn’t change the fact that it’s still dreary old Dartford winking smiley

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: October 21, 2021 15:15

Quote
Big Al

So, where is this plaque at Dartford station located, exactly?

Platform 2 - [iorr.org] ?


2015 - [www.Waymarking.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-21 15:30 by Irix.

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: Mariuana ()
Date: October 21, 2021 23:47

I don't know what the buss is about. It meant to celebrate the band we love but there are still people who would find the way to complain. The plaque does not say there were just two of them who formed the band. It says there were two of them who met on the station, which revived old friendship and led to them contributing in forming the band.
It's just a plaque in a small town station. It's not about rewriting history, erasing key members, who inspired who, who gave the initial idea, who placed the ad, who invited who, etc. It just celebrates the day when two boys met on the station, shared their love for music and later they formed/joined/contributed to forming/created/ the band that later won our hearts. I feel like Bill Wyman just wanted to add some controversy to talk about, that's it. It can not be serious.

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: October 22, 2021 09:19

Quote
Irix
Quote
Big Al

So, where is this plaque at Dartford station located, exactly?

Platform 2 - [iorr.org] ?


2015 - [www.Waymarking.com]

Thanks! I’ll try and have a quick backwards glance this evening, as I make my way for the connecting train at platform 4!

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: CaptainCorella ()
Date: October 22, 2021 11:54

Quote
Big Al
Quote
Irix
Quote
Big Al

So, where is this plaque at Dartford station located, exactly?

Platform 2 - [iorr.org] ?


2015 - [www.Waymarking.com]

Thanks! I’ll try and have a quick backwards glance this evening, as I make my way for the connecting train at platform 4!

PHOTO! Please!

That at the very least will settle if the naughty Mr Kite ever did change the plaque as he promised on air.

--
Captain Corella
50+ Years a Fan

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Date: October 22, 2021 15:17

Here some footage of them early days. The short interview at 6:02 is priceless.
Then there were five..






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-22 15:29 by TheflyingDutchman.

Re: October 17, 1961
Posted by: bv ()
Date: October 22, 2021 16:23

Quote
Topi
But the point here is that Mick and Keith still met 60 years ago, right?

Correct.

All this thread is about, is the fact that Mick and Keith met on the Dartford train station platform, that was the beginning of something great, we all know the rest.

Bjornulf

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: Green Lady ()
Date: October 22, 2021 16:29

Quote
CaptainCorella
Quote
Big Al
Quote
Irix
Quote
Big Al

So, where is this plaque at Dartford station located, exactly?

Platform 2 - [iorr.org] ?


2015 - [www.Waymarking.com]

Thanks! I’ll try and have a quick backwards glance this evening, as I make my way for the connecting train at platform 4!

PHOTO! Please!

That at the very least will settle if the naughty Mr Kite ever did change the plaque as he promised on air.

Well, Mr. Kite is still on Dartford Borough Council, so if he hasn't got round to fixing the plaque, you can contact him and complain. But the honest answer is probably that cash-strapped Dartford Council has 45969 more urgent things to spend its ratepayers' money on.

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: bv ()
Date: October 22, 2021 16:30

Like a lamp in a late summer evening is gathering bugs, this thread seems to be the center of all sorts of discussion about who actually founded The Rolling Stones. If you do really want a discussion about that, then I would advice to start a separate thread. There are probably a dozen ones already here, dormant.

All this very thread is saying, is the fact that Oct 17, 1961 was the date when Mick and Keith met on a station station.

Bjornulf

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: Lady Jayne ()
Date: October 22, 2021 17:29

Fun visit by Belgian reporter to early haunts of Mick 'n Keith and co in Dartford and beyond. It's in French but pretty easy to follow. And gives a fair idea of how dreary Dartford was (and is, sorry Dartford). He doesn't bother trekking to Platform 2 but stands outside the station and a nearby pub. (The best bit is when he stands in the road doing his commentary and is narrowly missed by a bus!)

[www.youtube.com]

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: CaptainCorella ()
Date: October 22, 2021 23:46

Quote
Green Lady

Well, Mr. Kite is still on Dartford Borough Council, so if he hasn't got round to fixing the plaque, you can contact him and complain. But the honest answer is probably that cash-strapped Dartford Council has 45969 more urgent things to spend its ratepayers' money on.

If Mr Kite wants to promote Dartford - which is appropriate - and gets it wrong, then he has to deal with the consequences.

You obviously missed an earlier posting where I stated quite clearly that I had told him that there were funds available for a replacement plaque - ie no cost to Dartford Council.

If he had more than two brain cells he would have realised that a free replacement, and then publicising that would have got yet more publicity for Dartford.

--
Captain Corella
50+ Years a Fan

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: October 23, 2021 03:24

Quote
Green Lady
See here (thanks 24FPS):

[iorr.org]

Thanks. It's been eight years since I posted that interview with Keith. It seems more real, closed to the bone, since it was only two years since Brian had passed. Keith sounds more affectionate towards his old weaving buddy. I wondered what bored Brian so much about the guitar that he laid it down pretty early on? I wonder if he could actually play more than his chunka-chunka rhythm parts (other than his slide ability, which he never seemed to lose).

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: October 23, 2021 04:12

Semi-related, these tweets from Stevie Van Zandt recently caught my eye regarding Brian.
He has an excellent point, wonder if the family ever considered replacing it.

Stevie Van Zandt
Oct 9

At Brian Jones pathetically inadequate gravesite. This man changed the world!


[twitter.com]



Stevie Van Zandt
Oct 9

This injustice must be rectified!


[twitter.com]



Stevie Van Zandt
Oct 9

...and there should be a huge statue of him in one of the many beautiful parks in Cheltenham. There’s no acknowledgement that he ever existed other than this very tragic gravesite.


[twitter.com]

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: October 23, 2021 07:57

Has Cheltenham finally forgiven him his hell raising ways BEFORE he left? They'll probably build a statue someday when they want to attract tourists. Like Steinbeck in Salinas, California. Hate him alive, love him dead. Can you tell me where the Brian Jones Gift Shop is?

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: October 23, 2021 09:59

Quote
24FPS
Has Cheltenham finally forgiven him his hell raising ways BEFORE he left? They'll probably build a statue someday when they want to attract tourists. Like Steinbeck in Salinas, California. Hate him alive, love him dead. Can you tell me where the Brian Jones Gift Shop is?

Wasn’t there a statue of Brian, though?

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: October 23, 2021 10:01

Quote
Big Al

Wasn’t there a statue of Brian, though?

It was actually a rather fetching head bust!

[www.google.co.uk]

Re: October 17, 1961
Posted by: Redhotcarpet ()
Date: October 23, 2021 12:07

Quote
CaptainCorella
It's shocking that here, of all places, the myth of Jagger/Richards setting up the Rolling Stones is allowed to carry on.

Brian Jones founded the group.

For non-native-english speakers the word "foundation" means "the action of establishing an institution or organization"... and that's what Brian did.

That is utterly and unequivocally the case.

Equally, had Mick & Keith not joined the band, then I'm equally sure that their success, domination and longevity would not have happened, and they can rightly be credited with how GREAT the band has become.

But the foundation was Brian's.

Yes but he was also dominating and shaping their image and the Rolling Stones ”lifestyle”. I guess in the same way Keith (and Mick) did in the 70s.

Re: October 17, 1961
Posted by: Four Stone Walls ()
Date: October 23, 2021 12:11

Quote
bv
Quote
Topi
But the point here is that Mick and Keith still met 60 years ago, right?

Correct.

All this thread is about, is the fact that Mick and Keith met on the Dartford train station platform, that was the beginning of something great, we all know the rest.

Yes, this thread is saying that they met on a station in Dartford.
Without that there would have been no Little boy Blue and the Blue Boys.

The plaque at Dartford station is at the centre of this thread though.

Brian making a life-changing decision to take a train ( though maybe a coach - it's cheaper)) from Cheltenham to London a year or two earlier is the a priori, sine qua non, historical factor for the existence of the 5-piece band we follow.

This does not subtract from the significance of the Boys Blue, without whom Brian's band wouldn't have got very far.

No we don't need a separate thread.


p.s. I'm glad they stuck with the name Brian chose, aren't you? !



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-23 12:22 by Four Stone Walls.

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: Green Lady ()
Date: October 23, 2021 12:41

Quote
CaptainCorella
Quote
Green Lady

Well, Mr. Kite is still on Dartford Borough Council, so if he hasn't got round to fixing the plaque, you can contact him and complain. But the honest answer is probably that cash-strapped Dartford Council has 45969 more urgent things to spend its ratepayers' money on.

If Mr Kite wants to promote Dartford - which is appropriate - and gets it wrong, then he has to deal with the consequences.

You obviously missed an earlier posting where I stated quite clearly that I had told him that there were funds available for a replacement plaque - ie no cost to Dartford Council.

If he had more than two brain cells he would have realised that a free replacement, and then publicising that would have got yet more publicity for Dartford.

Do you (or anyone) have a suggested rewording for the plaque?

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: October 23, 2021 13:00

Quote
Green Lady

Do you (or anyone) have a suggested rewording for the plaque?

In 2016: [iorr.org] , [iorr.org] .

2015-thread when the blue plaque has been unveiled: [iorr.org] .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-23 13:10 by Irix.

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: runaway ()
Date: October 23, 2021 13:01

Quote
Big Al
Quote
Big Al

Wasn’t there a statue of Brian, though?

It was actually a rather fetching head bust!

[www.google.co.uk]

In 2003 the BJFC in Cheltenham was raising money for a Brian Jones statue, getting a bust of Brian was a more realistic option than a statue. I designed sketches for a statue and bust but they were not used for the bust in Cheltenham.

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: Big Al ()
Date: October 23, 2021 13:31

Quote
runaway


In 2003 the BJFC in Cheltenham was raising money for a Brian Jones statue, getting a bust of Brian was a more realistic option than a statue. I designed sketches for a statue and bust but they were not used for the bust in Cheltenham.

Interesting. It's my understanding that the original bust - the one I posted the link to - received so many complaints, that it was taken away and altered. So, thankfully, you're not taking the credit for the original monstrous creation!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-23 13:32 by Big Al.

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: runaway ()
Date: October 23, 2021 13:57

Quote
Big Al
Quote
runaway


In 2003 the BJFC in Cheltenham was raising money for a Brian Jones statue, getting a bust of Brian was a more realistic option than a statue. I designed sketches for a statue and bust but they were not used for the bust in Cheltenham.

Interesting. It's my understanding that the original bust - the one I posted the link to - received so many complaints, that it was taken away and altered. So, thankfully, you're not taking the credit for the original monstrous creation!

Thanks but Maurice Juggins was a professional Artist, his Iron Man is on display at The Brunel Museum.

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: Green Lady ()
Date: October 23, 2021 14:47

Quote
Irix
Quote
Green Lady

Do you (or anyone) have a suggested rewording for the plaque?

In 2016: [iorr.org] , [iorr.org] .

2015-thread when the blue plaque has been unveiled: [iorr.org] .

"Went on to be founding members of the Rolling Stones" (if there's room on the plaque) sounds about right. The plaque then commemorates the meeting of the two Dartfordians and why it was significant, without claiming them as original creators of the band, just the vital founding members that they were. It's up to Cheltenham to commemorate Brian, if they want to. Personally I think there should be a blue plaque on 102 Edith Grove - but not any time soon, as you need to be dead to have an official blue plaque.

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: MisterDDDD ()
Date: October 23, 2021 15:45

Quote
24FPS
Has Cheltenham finally forgiven him his hell raising ways BEFORE he left? They'll probably build a statue someday when they want to attract tourists. Like Steinbeck in Salinas, California. Hate him alive, love him dead. Can you tell me where the Brian Jones Gift Shop is?

Similar to what the city of Aberdeen did here in Washington State for Kurt Cobain.. a memorial park and then other marketing efforts to attract tourists.
Seattle did similar with Jimi as well.

Re: Dartford Train Station Mick & Keith October 17, 1961
Posted by: Four Stone Walls ()
Date: October 23, 2021 16:28

Quote
Green Lady
Quote
CaptainCorella
Quote
Green Lady

Well, Mr. Kite is still on Dartford Borough Council, so if he hasn't got round to fixing the plaque, you can contact him and complain. But the honest answer is probably that cash-strapped Dartford Council has 45969 more urgent things to spend its ratepayers' money on.

If Mr Kite wants to promote Dartford - which is appropriate - and gets it wrong, then he has to deal with the consequences.

You obviously missed an earlier posting where I stated quite clearly that I had told him that there were funds available for a replacement plaque - ie no cost to Dartford Council.

If he had more than two brain cells he would have realised that a free replacement, and then publicising that would have got yet more publicity for Dartford.

Do you (or anyone) have a suggested rewording for the plaque?

'who went on to form a lifelong musical partnership within the band The Rolling Stones'

Re: October 17, 1961
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: October 23, 2021 17:51

Quote
Four Stone Walls
Quote
bv
Quote
Topi
But the point here is that Mick and Keith still met 60 years ago, right?

Correct.

All this thread is about, is the fact that Mick and Keith met on the Dartford train station platform, that was the beginning of something great, we all know the rest.

Yes, this thread is saying that they met on a station in Dartford.
Without that there would have been no Little boy Blue and the Blue Boys.

The plaque at Dartford station is at the centre of this thread though.

Brian making a life-changing decision to take a train ( though maybe a coach - it's cheaper)) from Cheltenham to London a year or two earlier is the a priori, sine qua non, historical factor for the existence of the 5-piece band we follow.

This does not subtract from the significance of the Boys Blue, without whom Brian's band wouldn't have got very far.

No we don't need a separate thread.


p.s. I'm glad they stuck with the name Brian chose, aren't you? !

Indeed! A great name Brian chose that ended up reflecting so well the 60 years of the Mick and Keith songwriting and performance partnership that ensued, without which you wouldn't even have had a footnote in musical history, and a subsequent music magazine that may have been named, "Herman's Hermits Monthly".

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