Tell Me :
Talk
I give you credit for persistence, signore.
I remember after Charlie’s death all the tributes noting how distinctive Charlie’s sound was, how it was the One Thing that made the stones different from all other bands. And all the drummers explaining why from a technical standpoint.
But for some, not so much. It’s the same glorious Stones sound. Even better, right?
I don't think there was time to audition several drummers. As far as it being someone from the UK? I dunno.
I think the concern rightfully was: WHO can mesh well with Keith? With Darryl? With Mick?
The ONLY person that could fit the bill was SJ. He had "that thing" with Keith- a look back and forth, a riff, or a beat and they were off. Charlie recommended SJ to Keith in the mid-80's for Hail Hail Rock and Roll.
SJ and KR have written songs together, produced albums together and more importantly- they've TOURED together.
I think SJ reveres the band, the songs and the legacy of Charlie Watts.
Revering that legacy would not include copying Charlie, exactly, beat for beat.
When Darryl first started rehearsing and playing with the band, Mick would stop him and ask Darryl what he was playing?
Darryl would reply: That's how Bill does it.
Mick told him: Don't do that, play it your way.
So, originality was encouraged by Mick for Darryl. I can only imagine it was the same for SJ.
When I first heard the youtube videos I noticed the differences for songs I especially liked.
Now, for songs I don't like as much? SJ breathed new life into them, for me anyways.
Midnight Rambler, and especially Living In A Ghost Town. (Surprise)
Tumbling Dice is pretty much exactly like Charlie.
In 2018, some of us were noticing that certain songs were slower in tempo?
I noticed. Now, this is NOT a criticism of CW's playing, it's an observation.
Tempo, for me, is so important. Done right and the song takes flight and levitates.
Too slow? It just plods along, especially for numbers like JJF or Start Me Up. Some nights they just sounded lazy, tempo wise.
Now, I am fond of SJ.
I was at a X-pensive Winos show in Detroit in 1993.
At the end of the show, SJ threw his drumsticks into the crowd.
Well, another millimeter or two and I would have lost an eye.
When I got struck with his stick, I started bleeding, quite a lot.
Somehow, security got me on stage.
SJ checked in with me to make sure I was OK. He stayed for a minute or two, until the medics arrived.
After the medics patched me up, security came out and got my contact information.
The venue sent me a fax with a note from SJ that said he was glad I was ok.
Hopefully, I'll get my drumstick in Detroit this year.
Give SJ a chance, Charlie played with the band for over 50 years.
To expect Steve to be perfect after a few weeks of rehearsal isn't realistic.
Go see them if you can.
I was crushed when I heard about Charlie. I told my spouse that we'd never the "our" Rolling Stones perform, live again.
I wasn't going to go to another show. While I didn't think the band should stop, it wasn't "my Rolling Stones" anymore.
After a while I realized I was gatekeeping. I don't get to decide when or how the band keeps playing.
Then, I remembered that Charlie had asked SJ to sit in for him.
Good enough for Charlie? Good enough for me.
Right now, I think our band needs US just as much as we need them.
The Rolling Stones have been the soundtrack to my life. They've been there for me, I'll be there for them.
Still I have to say I'm positively surprised by the videos of the second show. Was really unsatisfied with the first one but he got a lot better on the second one. Let's give him some time to get into the groove. And no, it won't be the same as with Charlie but it still can be groovy in its own way.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-03 07:41 by StonedRambler.
Well, he is the drummer.
....also, infinitely better than doom and gloom.
Wise and emphatic words. Thanks.
In fact, it is especially nice to read those words, just coming from you, given what you stand for! What a beautiful sentiment in the present situation!
Absolutely.
Man, did they pick the right guy for a near impossible situation.
Keith deserves a lot of praise as well for how well this is working.
It's clear the extra time spent rehearsing with him prior to reg rehearsals has really paid off.
That is so true. It's a joy listening to the videos from the first three shows.
Compare the version of Let's Spend The Night Together they're doing now to the one on Honk, for instance. They're on a roll
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
PhillyFAN
()
Date: October 2, 2021 20:37
After reading so many comments about SJ - not the same, magic is gone etc. It will never be the same. Yes Charlie's magic is gone and it will never be the same again. This is the Rolling Stones with a touring drummer that is damn good in the band. MJ and KR obviously approve and like it. He is not a member or trying to take CW's place in our hearts. Enjoy the remaining Stones while they are still alive and playing shows magnificently. Time waits for no one. God bless CW.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
rollingon
()
Date: October 2, 2021 21:58
Steve Jordan seems to be so happy to be able to play with the Stones. You can see his facial expressions on stage! Maybe it really has brought some younger energy to whole band! I respect Charlie very much but on the other hand I like very much what I have seen and heard through the Youtube clips so far.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
DEmerson
()
Date: October 2, 2021 22:00
I went to Charlotte the other night (my 40th RS show) and I agree that they are playing with a vengeance. They were on fire all night - to these ears anyway. We were in the GA at the rear of the field - had a blast.
Not ideal for views of the band, but as to ‘how was Steve Jordan?’ - my reply would be, I almost didn’t notice him. It was just the glorious sound of the Rolling Stones - firing on all cylinders.
Not ideal for views of the band, but as to ‘how was Steve Jordan?’ - my reply would be, I almost didn’t notice him. It was just the glorious sound of the Rolling Stones - firing on all cylinders.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
Rokyfan
()
Date: October 2, 2021 22:22
Quote
The Sicilian
Please, stay home and watch the videos. But while you're at it, describe Charlie's swing for us.
I give you credit for persistence, signore.
I remember after Charlie’s death all the tributes noting how distinctive Charlie’s sound was, how it was the One Thing that made the stones different from all other bands. And all the drummers explaining why from a technical standpoint.
But for some, not so much. It’s the same glorious Stones sound. Even better, right?
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
spikenyc
()
Date: October 2, 2021 22:28
Steve Jordan is a musician's musician!
He can play with almost anybody.
Check out this gig from 1989 with John Fogerty and Jerry Garcia.
I was there.
[www.youtube.com]
He can play with almost anybody.
Check out this gig from 1989 with John Fogerty and Jerry Garcia.
I was there.
[www.youtube.com]
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
Bjorn
()
Date: October 2, 2021 23:31
Amazing, fantastic groove on the last - fast - part of Midnight Rambler in Charlotte. Thank you!
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
James Kirk
()
Date: October 2, 2021 23:44
Love Charlie. He’s irreplaceable, but I think Steve is great and doing an absolutely amazing job. Hats off to both of those guys
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
stargroover
()
Date: October 3, 2021 00:13
Hey Sicilian there is a guy called Mr Singh in Connaught Place in Delhi who can give those lugs a good clean,and maybe then you can appreciate Charlie’s swing.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
MingSubu
()
Date: October 3, 2021 01:00
Love and miss Charlie.
Steve's smile says it all...
I'm really liking the jump he's given the band.
Steve's smile says it all...
I'm really liking the jump he's given the band.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
dennycranium
()
Date: October 3, 2021 01:50
Quote
flilflam
All I hear from Jordan is bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, and bang. Few fills and change of tone when the mood of the song changes. Mainly noise. But, maybe he will get better.
The new drummer should be auditioned and he should be someone from the UK. Many guitarists were auditioned when Mick Taylor left the band. Why not do the same for the drummer ?
I don't think there was time to audition several drummers. As far as it being someone from the UK? I dunno.
I think the concern rightfully was: WHO can mesh well with Keith? With Darryl? With Mick?
The ONLY person that could fit the bill was SJ. He had "that thing" with Keith- a look back and forth, a riff, or a beat and they were off. Charlie recommended SJ to Keith in the mid-80's for Hail Hail Rock and Roll.
SJ and KR have written songs together, produced albums together and more importantly- they've TOURED together.
I think SJ reveres the band, the songs and the legacy of Charlie Watts.
Revering that legacy would not include copying Charlie, exactly, beat for beat.
When Darryl first started rehearsing and playing with the band, Mick would stop him and ask Darryl what he was playing?
Darryl would reply: That's how Bill does it.
Mick told him: Don't do that, play it your way.
So, originality was encouraged by Mick for Darryl. I can only imagine it was the same for SJ.
When I first heard the youtube videos I noticed the differences for songs I especially liked.
Now, for songs I don't like as much? SJ breathed new life into them, for me anyways.
Midnight Rambler, and especially Living In A Ghost Town. (Surprise)
Tumbling Dice is pretty much exactly like Charlie.
In 2018, some of us were noticing that certain songs were slower in tempo?
I noticed. Now, this is NOT a criticism of CW's playing, it's an observation.
Tempo, for me, is so important. Done right and the song takes flight and levitates.
Too slow? It just plods along, especially for numbers like JJF or Start Me Up. Some nights they just sounded lazy, tempo wise.
Now, I am fond of SJ.
I was at a X-pensive Winos show in Detroit in 1993.
At the end of the show, SJ threw his drumsticks into the crowd.
Well, another millimeter or two and I would have lost an eye.
When I got struck with his stick, I started bleeding, quite a lot.
Somehow, security got me on stage.
SJ checked in with me to make sure I was OK. He stayed for a minute or two, until the medics arrived.
After the medics patched me up, security came out and got my contact information.
The venue sent me a fax with a note from SJ that said he was glad I was ok.
Hopefully, I'll get my drumstick in Detroit this year.
Give SJ a chance, Charlie played with the band for over 50 years.
To expect Steve to be perfect after a few weeks of rehearsal isn't realistic.
Go see them if you can.
I was crushed when I heard about Charlie. I told my spouse that we'd never the "our" Rolling Stones perform, live again.
I wasn't going to go to another show. While I didn't think the band should stop, it wasn't "my Rolling Stones" anymore.
After a while I realized I was gatekeeping. I don't get to decide when or how the band keeps playing.
Then, I remembered that Charlie had asked SJ to sit in for him.
Good enough for Charlie? Good enough for me.
Right now, I think our band needs US just as much as we need them.
The Rolling Stones have been the soundtrack to my life. They've been there for me, I'll be there for them.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
Markdog
()
Date: October 3, 2021 05:09
Steve is doing s great job. It's not quite the same but seems to have the band fired up. No doubt because a new drummer after 59 years is going to get the band on high alert. The extra focus translates to excitement as the tunes come together and the band sounds good.
Super far from Wyman/watts groves. Listen to anything from the hay days and the rythmn has a feel and sound unlike today. But even Charlie in his 70s got a bit more rigid with less feel. It's natural with age.
As a drummer in my 50s I still feel I can play mostly like when I was younger but it's more work. Add 20 years there is no way I could play the same.
Bottom line....they're better than expected with Steve and that's a good thing.
The vibe difference is a who is following who in the band. Keith is following Steve since is tempo is perfect. Charlie tends to follow keith and even though Charlie's tempo is excellent the ebb and flow existed.
If there was a tempo change with Charlie, Keith lead it and Charlie followed....now they lock into Steve and right or wrong that is the feel difference to me.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-03 05:11 by Markdog.
Super far from Wyman/watts groves. Listen to anything from the hay days and the rythmn has a feel and sound unlike today. But even Charlie in his 70s got a bit more rigid with less feel. It's natural with age.
As a drummer in my 50s I still feel I can play mostly like when I was younger but it's more work. Add 20 years there is no way I could play the same.
Bottom line....they're better than expected with Steve and that's a good thing.
The vibe difference is a who is following who in the band. Keith is following Steve since is tempo is perfect. Charlie tends to follow keith and even though Charlie's tempo is excellent the ebb and flow existed.
If there was a tempo change with Charlie, Keith lead it and Charlie followed....now they lock into Steve and right or wrong that is the feel difference to me.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-03 05:11 by Markdog.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
Markdog
()
Date: October 3, 2021 05:24
Charlie's swing was how he plays the quarter notes and especially the kick drum downbeat. Those are the feel of the drums. Rigid is straight ahead almost computer like but the added swing is the space between the snare hits. the minute placing and pressure of those quarter notes makes all the difference. Eg, have a double kick in the beat, Charlie may emphasize the 2nd one and make the first once softer. Huge difference in feel.
Watch Steve's Gimme Shelter...played correctly but he puts equal priority to kick beats and snare and even though he has groove in it the feel is different.
Best way I can explain how I feel the swing difference.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-03 05:26 by Markdog.
Watch Steve's Gimme Shelter...played correctly but he puts equal priority to kick beats and snare and even though he has groove in it the feel is different.
Best way I can explain how I feel the swing difference.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-03 05:26 by Markdog.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
Jeter1984
()
Date: October 3, 2021 06:39
Why would anyone be surprised that Jordan fits in so well?
He's a complete pro who's been around the band for years.
He's a complete pro who's been around the band for years.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
StonedRambler
()
Date: October 3, 2021 07:38
Good explanation. I second that. What also makes the "Charlie Swing" are the ghost notes of the snare in between the backbeat. These ghost notes are often super subtle and sometimes not even audible through the guitars, but they were played with a certain swing/shuffle feel and made the whole groove swing. With SJ I don't hear/see these ghostnotes that much. On certain songs like CAGWYW he kinda does it but on others like JJF not at all.Quote
Markdog
Charlie's swing was how he plays the quarter notes and especially the kick drum downbeat. Those are the feel of the drums. Rigid is straight ahead almost computer like but the added swing is the space between the snare hits. the minute placing and pressure of those quarter notes makes all the difference. Eg, have a double kick in the beat, Charlie may emphasize the 2nd one and make the first once softer. Huge difference in feel.
Watch Steve's Gimme Shelter...played correctly but he puts equal priority to kick beats and snare and even though he has groove in it the feel is different.
Best way I can explain how I feel the swing difference.
Still I have to say I'm positively surprised by the videos of the second show. Was really unsatisfied with the first one but he got a lot better on the second one. Let's give him some time to get into the groove. And no, it won't be the same as with Charlie but it still can be groovy in its own way.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-03 07:41 by StonedRambler.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: October 5, 2021 17:35
Post Jones = different. Post Taylor = different. Post Stu = different. Post Wyman = different. Post Charlie = different.
I have often criticised this band, hah, but I am glad they take no notice of what I and others say.
Steve was the obvious and perfect musician for this next stage of the bands history.
Charlie's death is huge for them and us, but I don't think it's the only reason for the sadness that's around. The whole covid thing has turned the world upside down too and then there's the general mess we find ourselves in via politics etc.
Faced with sickness, death and a divided world, I am sure glad they kept playing. I think this tour is a beautiful and noble attempt to keep going in the face of adversity. They are very good at that. An example for us all.
I love The Rolling Stones.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-05 17:39 by His Majesty.
I have often criticised this band, hah, but I am glad they take no notice of what I and others say.
Steve was the obvious and perfect musician for this next stage of the bands history.
Charlie's death is huge for them and us, but I don't think it's the only reason for the sadness that's around. The whole covid thing has turned the world upside down too and then there's the general mess we find ourselves in via politics etc.
Faced with sickness, death and a divided world, I am sure glad they kept playing. I think this tour is a beautiful and noble attempt to keep going in the face of adversity. They are very good at that. An example for us all.
I love The Rolling Stones.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-10-05 17:39 by His Majesty.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
makemeburnthecandle
()
Date: October 5, 2021 17:41
Perhaps the new energy he brings will lead to more than one tour each year or more dates.
On the 7th day God created The Rolling Stones
On the 7th day God created The Rolling Stones
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
LeonidP
()
Date: October 5, 2021 17:48
Quote
flilflam
All I hear from Jordan is bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, and bang. .....
Well, he is the drummer.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: October 5, 2021 18:20
Quote
LeonidPQuote
flilflam
All I hear from Jordan is bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, and bang. .....
Well, he is the drummer.
....also, infinitely better than doom and gloom.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
TheflyingDutchman
()
Date: October 5, 2021 19:03
Quote
His Majesty
Post Jones = different. Post Taylor = different. Post Stu = different. Post Wyman = different. Post Charlie = different.
I have often criticised this band, hah, but I am glad they take no notice of what I and others say.
Steve was the obvious and perfect musician for this next stage of the bands history.
Charlie's death is huge for them and us, but I don't think it's the only reason for the sadness that's around. The whole covid thing has turned the world upside down too and then there's the general mess we find ourselves in via politics etc.
Faced with sickness, death and a divided world, I am sure glad they kept playing. I think this tour is a beautiful and noble attempt to keep going in the face of adversity. They are very good at that. An example for us all.
I love The Rolling Stones.
Wise and emphatic words. Thanks.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: October 5, 2021 19:57
His Majesty
Very well said. Puts things into perspective. And nice to hear that from you.
- Doxa
Very well said. Puts things into perspective. And nice to hear that from you.
- Doxa
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
audun-eg
()
Date: October 5, 2021 20:39
From the YT clips from this years tour so far, I must say that the band sounds great, and Steve Jordan seems to fit well. He seems to have paid great attention to the original recordings which Charlie hardly ever did. A remarkable example is how they now do 19th Nervous Breakdown with a shuffle swing true to the studio recording, as opposed to a regular straight beat they did with Charlie in later live versions.
However, the variations from the studio recordings Charlie did live to a tune, often added to the song, and made it even better, though not in all cases.
I also appreciate that Jordan does drum-fills that is simple and straight forward, as Charlie did, but Jordans fills are often not as dynamic as Charlie's.
All in all, I will always miss how Charlie did certain songs live, but I still think it's great that the band goes on. Especially when they are as good as they seem to be at the moment. I also don't think they could have found a more suitable replacement than Jordan when all is said and done.
[www.reverbnation.com]
However, the variations from the studio recordings Charlie did live to a tune, often added to the song, and made it even better, though not in all cases.
I also appreciate that Jordan does drum-fills that is simple and straight forward, as Charlie did, but Jordans fills are often not as dynamic as Charlie's.
All in all, I will always miss how Charlie did certain songs live, but I still think it's great that the band goes on. Especially when they are as good as they seem to be at the moment. I also don't think they could have found a more suitable replacement than Jordan when all is said and done.
[www.reverbnation.com]
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: October 5, 2021 20:58
Quote
Doxa
His Majesty
Very well said. Puts things into perspective. And nice to hear that from you.
- Doxa
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
ChrisM42
()
Date: October 5, 2021 21:28
I've heard some of the performances including soundboard tracks.
IMHO:
It's different to me, not bad just different. You know there is that signature slight delay of the drum beat following the guitar and the swing style that added to the feel of music.
I feel a loss and I'm still saddened by his passing.
IMHO:
It's different to me, not bad just different. You know there is that signature slight delay of the drum beat following the guitar and the swing style that added to the feel of music.
I feel a loss and I'm still saddened by his passing.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
mizzoumonkeyman29
()
Date: October 5, 2021 22:06
I was at the St Louis show and I was impressed with Steve. It's difficult for all of us to take this in, Mr Watts passing away and then someone else filling in for him. I know this will not happen but I would like to hear the Stones play Get Off My Cloud or Rip This Joint with Steve playing drums. Thank you Rolling Stones, thank you Mr Watts.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
Witness
()
Date: October 5, 2021 22:48
Quote
His Majesty
Post Jones = different. Post Taylor = different. Post Stu = different. Post Wyman = different. Post Charlie = different.
I have often criticised this band, hah, but I am glad they take no notice of what I and others say.
Steve was the obvious and perfect musician for this next stage of the bands history.
Charlie's death is huge for them and us, but I don't think it's the only reason for the sadness that's around. The whole covid thing has turned the world upside down too and then there's the general mess we find ourselves in via politics etc.
Faced with sickness, death and a divided world, I am sure glad they kept playing. I think this tour is a beautiful and noble attempt to keep going in the face of adversity. They are very good at that. An example for us all.
I love The Rolling Stones.
In fact, it is especially nice to read those words, just coming from you, given what you stand for! What a beautiful sentiment in the present situation!
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
Rocktiludrop
()
Date: October 6, 2021 00:42
Steve's definitely getting better every show, and pushing the band, jeez they are on fire right now, no telling how hard they will be rocking by show 12 or 13, i hope they add more dates because this is just too good to stop.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: October 6, 2021 08:51
Quote
Rocktiludrop
Steve's definitely getting better every show, and pushing the band, jeez they are on fire right now, no telling how hard they will be rocking by show 12 or 13, i hope they add more dates because this is just too good to stop.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 6, 2021 11:45
He's been excellent from the get-go, imo.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: October 6, 2021 13:24
Quote
DandelionPowderman
He's been excellent from the get-go, imo.
Absolutely.
Man, did they pick the right guy for a near impossible situation.
Keith deserves a lot of praise as well for how well this is working.
It's clear the extra time spent rehearsing with him prior to reg rehearsals has really paid off.
Re: Steve Jordan Reinvigorating the Band
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 6, 2021 15:21
Quote
MisterDDDDQuote
DandelionPowderman
He's been excellent from the get-go, imo.
Absolutely.
Man, did they pick the right guy for a near impossible situation.
Keith deserves a lot of praise as well for how well this is working.
It's clear the extra time spent rehearsing with him prior to reg rehearsals has really paid off.
That is so true. It's a joy listening to the videos from the first three shows.
Compare the version of Let's Spend The Night Together they're doing now to the one on Honk, for instance. They're on a roll
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