A quote by Keith Richards back around 2004:

And in June of 2004 he was diagnosed with throat cancer, which he successfully battled into submission. "We were scared," Richards said shortly after. "We've had other people come and go in the band...but if there's no Charlie, there's no Stones. I wouldn't want to go on if he's not there."

Gary Graff Billboard Magazine (8/24/2021)

Obituary for Charlie Watts - Billboard Magazine



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-26 14:45 by bv.

I do not doubt for a second that the band is broken up by this personally. They understood the seriousness of Charlie's procedure and the risk afterwards as anyone would. The announcement of the tour, then the PR announcement about Charlie pulling out were not timed to make sure ticket sales were not impacted as some have cynically suggested. The timing was to give Charlie, Shirley, Serafina, and her daughter the privacy they deserved. Given that the procedure was not ultimately successful only reinforces how important a now-grieving family's privacy was to maximize their remaining time with Charlie. We're fans of a band. He wasn't our friend, our spouse, our Dad, our Grandfather. Those are the people whose grief takes priority.

As for the Keith quote, it was said while he and Mick were busy laying down demos for A BIGGER BANG. See it in that context. Keith also said at the same time to Mick "it looks like it's just you and me, pal." The things people say are not etched in granite. Keith's affection for Charlie may mean he stops or goes on. It doesn't change anything about their nearly 60 year run with the greatest drummer the greatest rock 'n' roll band in the world could have had. Without Charlie, they would never have claimed that title. He was as important as Mick, Keith, Brian, Mick Taylor, and Bill in earning it and Ronnie in maintaining it and Darryl and Chuck in helping honor it.

Mick also once said he could not see himself singing Satisfaction at age 30.

This tour may help Mick and Keith decide how they feel going forward. I think the love and adoration received may give them the strength to carry on without Charlie. It's going to be super emotional out there...

We simply don't know what Charlie told them to do. Maybe he said: "I want you to continue the legacy as long as you can..."

They probably spoke about those things in the last couple of years with al the phyisical problems Mick and Ronnie recently had...

The pain Keith surely feels must be nearly unbearable, especially given the current near sober state his mind set seems to have gravitated to.

He’s kicked a lot of habits, but this will be the toughest.

I have no doubt the decision to continue on was gut wrenching for him, and likely with Charlie’s full blessing and support, if not his insistence.

It was a matter of time before someone posted this quote, but it’s merely a small footnote in the story of one of, if not THE greatest drummers and rhythm sections in the history of rock music, if not all types of music.

CHELSKEITH

Quote
Rocky Dijon
I do not doubt for a second that the band is broken up by this personally. They understood the seriousness of Charlie's procedure and the risk afterwards as anyone would. The announcement of the tour, then the PR announcement about Charlie pulling out were not timed to make sure ticket sales were not impacted as some have cynically suggested. The timing was to give Charlie, Shirley, Serafina, and her daughter the privacy they deserved. Given that the procedure was not ultimately successful only reinforces how important a now-grieving family's privacy was to maximize their remaining time with Charlie. We're fans of a band. He wasn't our friend, our spouse, our Dad, our Grandfather. Those are the people whose grief takes priority.

As for the Keith quote, it was said while he and Mick were busy laying down demos for A BIGGER BANG. See it in that context. Keith also said at the same time to Mick "it looks like it's just you and me, pal." The things people say are not etched in granite. Keith's affection for Charlie may mean he stops or goes on. It doesn't change anything about their nearly 60 year run with the greatest drummer the greatest rock 'n' roll band in the world could have had. Without Charlie, they would never have claimed that title. He was as important as Mick, Keith, Brian, Mick Taylor, and Bill in earning it and Ronnie in maintaining it and Darryl and Chuck in helping honor it.

Well said!

I just had a thought that truly none of us know what Charlie wanted or Mick or Keith for that matter. They owe us nothing as we have had a lifetime of the Greatest Rock and Roll Band in the World .

Quote
MizzAmandaJonez
The pain Keith surely feels must be nearly unbearable, especially given the current near sober state his mind set seems to have gravitated to.

He’s kicked a lot of habits, but this will be the toughest.

I have no doubt the decision to continue on was gut wrenching for him, and likely with Charlie’s full blessing and support, if not his insistence.

It was a matter of time before someone posted this quote, but it’s merely a small footnote in the story of one of, if not THE greatest drummers and rhythm sections in the history of rock music, if not all types of music.

CHELSKEITH

The death of a family member or close friend is not like kicking a habit. It affects your heart and soul. There is a difference. It takes time to heal and grieve. For many people, they're never the same. People move on with their lives but some things are better left alone.

Keith's been known to say a lot of "things" over the years, often in connection with various "promotion" duties and that statement reeked of being a nice/interesting story to peddle for the promo of ABB. It's hard to tell if he really "meant" it at the time.

Quote

I do not doubt for a second that the band is broken up by this personally. They understood the seriousness of Charlie's procedure and the risk afterwards as anyone would. The announcement of the tour, then the PR announcement about Charlie pulling out were not timed to make sure ticket sales were not impacted as some have cynically suggested. The timing was to give Charlie, Shirley, Serafina, and her daughter the privacy they deserved. Given that the procedure was not ultimately successful only reinforces how important a now-grieving family's privacy was to maximize their remaining time with Charlie

One can hope it was all done "for the best" but I'm still confused by the way it was handled. Why go public about an undisclosed procedure and say he was expected to make a full recovery if it was so "serious" (Mick's procedure was serious and it was disclosed). What was the rush ? It could have waited until a few days before the concert and Charlie's family would have been even less under pressure. Fact is that PR allowed Charlie to pass on the torch to SJ...

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

Quote
gotdablouse
Keith's been known to say a lot of "things" over the years, often in connection with various "promotion" duties and that statement reeked of being a nice/interesting story to peddle for the promo of ABB. It's hard to tell if he really "meant" it at the time.

Quote

I do not doubt for a second that the band is broken up by this personally. They understood the seriousness of Charlie's procedure and the risk afterwards as anyone would. The announcement of the tour, then the PR announcement about Charlie pulling out were not timed to make sure ticket sales were not impacted as some have cynically suggested. The timing was to give Charlie, Shirley, Serafina, and her daughter the privacy they deserved. Given that the procedure was not ultimately successful only reinforces how important a now-grieving family's privacy was to maximize their remaining time with Charlie

One can hope it was all done "for the best" but I'm still confused by the way it was handled. Why go public about an undisclosed procedure and say he was expected to make a full recovery if it was so "serious" (Mick's procedure was serious and it was disclosed). What was the rush ? It could have waited until a few days before the concert and Charlie's family would have been even less under pressure. Fact is that PR allowed Charlie to pass on the torch to SJ...

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Conspiracy theorists were already up in arms that SJ's contract was signed before Charlie's procedure. Can only imagine the uproar if they waited until his passing and then replaced him with less notice to the fans (they knew but just wanted to sell tix bs)

Sounds to me like while they of course were aware of the seriousness, they held out hope, as did Charlie, for a full recovery. As they said. Confusion solved.

"SJ's contract was signed before Charlie's procedure" - how do we know that ?!

But yes, by having Charlie (apparently) "pass on the torch" three weeks ago it makes it easier/possible now to carry on...

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio

The JRW band. Or Jagger Richards Wood.

Unfortunately, it seems like there’s a portion of the fan base who wants to hold the remaining band members’ accountable for something Keith said when talking about a friend who faced a life-threatening illness.

“Keith said, ‘no Charlie, no Stones,’ so they need to break up right now!” pretty much sums up what those fans have been saying. Think about that. These guys have just lost a brother and there is a portion of supposed fans who are demanding they break up now.

Like others have said, it’s Mick and Keith’s choice. If they decide to carry on, then fans can decide if they want to continue the ride or jump off.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-25 18:50 by CamRS.

Quote
shadooby
The JRW band. Or Jagger Richards Wood.

Ronnie & the Glimmer Twins?

"The Rolling Stones" is dead.


Long live THE STONES.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2021-08-25 19:16 by loog droog.

Quote
The Sicilian

Quote
MizzAmandaJonez
The pain Keith surely feels must be nearly unbearable, especially given the current near sober state his mind set seems to have gravitated to.

He’s kicked a lot of habits, but this will be the toughest.

I have no doubt the decision to continue on was gut wrenching for him, and likely with Charlie’s full blessing and support, if not his insistence.

It was a matter of time before someone posted this quote, but it’s merely a small footnote in the story of one of, if not THE greatest drummers and rhythm sections in the history of rock music, if not all types of music.

CHELSKEITH

The death of a family member or close friend is not like kicking a habit. It affects your heart and soul. There is a difference. It takes time to heal and grieve. For many people, they're never the same. People move on with their lives but some things are better left alone.

Of course, but not seeing the point. You're trying to make your own decision and judgment of how you think they should behave. And when I have a family member pass, we don't just say we are giving up, and no more family get-togethers.

Quote
LeonidP

Quote
The Sicilian

Quote
MizzAmandaJonez
The pain Keith surely feels must be nearly unbearable, especially given the current near sober state his mind set seems to have gravitated to.

He’s kicked a lot of habits, but this will be the toughest.

I have no doubt the decision to continue on was gut wrenching for him, and likely with Charlie’s full blessing and support, if not his insistence.

It was a matter of time before someone posted this quote, but it’s merely a small footnote in the story of one of, if not THE greatest drummers and rhythm sections in the history of rock music, if not all types of music.

CHELSKEITH

The death of a family member or close friend is not like kicking a habit. It affects your heart and soul. There is a difference. It takes time to heal and grieve. For many people, they're never the same. People move on with their lives but some things are better left alone.

Of course, but not seeing the point. You're trying to make your own decision and judgment of how you think they should behave. And when I have a family member pass, we don't just say we are giving up, and no more family get-togethers.

Well to each their own. There is a respect factor and that is the point. Where I come from when a close friend or family member passes away we don't party and celebrate. People have feelings. Many are not in a mood for festivities. Sure people get together, but the things are toned down. Only selfish ticket holders would expect the band to to out and jam away three weeks after the fact. Besides, COVID is causing issues everywhere, so now you have two reasons to put it off and decide next year if it is worth continuing.

Quote
shadooby
The JRW band. Or Jagger Richards Wood.

Charlie's Angels

Quote
The Sicilian

Quote
LeonidP

Quote
The Sicilian

Quote
MizzAmandaJonez
The pain Keith surely feels must be nearly unbearable, especially given the current near sober state his mind set seems to have gravitated to.

He’s kicked a lot of habits, but this will be the toughest.

I have no doubt the decision to continue on was gut wrenching for him, and likely with Charlie’s full blessing and support, if not his insistence.

It was a matter of time before someone posted this quote, but it’s merely a small footnote in the story of one of, if not THE greatest drummers and rhythm sections in the history of rock music, if not all types of music.

CHELSKEITH

The death of a family member or close friend is not like kicking a habit. It affects your heart and soul. There is a difference. It takes time to heal and grieve. For many people, they're never the same. People move on with their lives but some things are better left alone.

Of course, but not seeing the point. You're trying to make your own decision and judgment of how you think they should behave. And when I have a family member pass, we don't just say we are giving up, and no more family get-togethers.

Well to each their own. There is a respect factor and that is the point. Where I come from when a close friend or family member passes away we don't party and celebrate. People have feelings. Many are not in a mood for festivities. Sure people get together, but the things are toned down. Only selfish ticket holders would expect the band to to out and jam away three weeks after the fact. Besides, COVID is causing issues everywhere, so now you have two reasons to put it off and decide next year if it is worth continuing.

Again, it's your opinion of how YOU feel they need to handle this. That doesn't mean they are obliged to do what YOU think they should. They are capable of making up their own minds. When a family member passes, note how different people handle it in their OWN way, some may weep, some may joke, some may laugh at good times, some may go out and toast a drink. It's not up to anyone to decide what others should be doing.

I'm still going to be a Stones fan. I love Charlie too, but he even endorsed Steve Jordan. It's everyone's personal right not to carry on but I'm going to. On that note I'm also a Ronnie fan but I prefer Mick T. and I'm okay many years with this.

Quote
Rocky Dijon
I do not doubt for a second that the band is broken up by this personally. They understood the seriousness of Charlie's procedure and the risk afterwards as anyone would. The announcement of the tour, then the PR announcement about Charlie pulling out were not timed to make sure ticket sales were not impacted as some have cynically suggested. The timing was to give Charlie, Shirley, Serafina, and her daughter the privacy they deserved. Given that the procedure was not ultimately successful only reinforces how important a now-grieving family's privacy was to maximize their remaining time with Charlie. We're fans of a band. He wasn't our friend, our spouse, our Dad, our Grandfather. Those are the people whose grief takes priority.

As for the Keith quote, it was said while he and Mick were busy laying down demos for A BIGGER BANG. See it in that context. Keith also said at the same time to Mick "it looks like it's just you and me, pal." The things people say are not etched in granite. Keith's affection for Charlie may mean he stops or goes on. It doesn't change anything about their nearly 60 year run with the greatest drummer the greatest rock 'n' roll band in the world could have had. Without Charlie, they would never have claimed that title. He was as important as Mick, Keith, Brian, Mick Taylor, and Bill in earning it and Ronnie in maintaining it and Darryl and Chuck in helping honor it.

Good post, Rocky. A lot of common sense and well stated. Agree.


plexi

Quote
LeonidP
Mick also once said he could not see himself singing Satisfaction at age 30.

I believe he said at the age of 45, but maybe he said both at different times.


plexi

Quote
LeonidP

Quote
The Sicilian

Quote
LeonidP

Quote
The Sicilian

Quote
MizzAmandaJonez
The pain Keith surely feels must be nearly unbearable, especially given the current near sober state his mind set seems to have gravitated to.

He’s kicked a lot of habits, but this will be the toughest.

I have no doubt the decision to continue on was gut wrenching for him, and likely with Charlie’s full blessing and support, if not his insistence.

It was a matter of time before someone posted this quote, but it’s merely a small footnote in the story of one of, if not THE greatest drummers and rhythm sections in the history of rock music, if not all types of music.

CHELSKEITH

The death of a family member or close friend is not like kicking a habit. It affects your heart and soul. There is a difference. It takes time to heal and grieve. For many people, they're never the same. People move on with their lives but some things are better left alone.

Of course, but not seeing the point. You're trying to make your own decision and judgment of how you think they should behave. And when I have a family member pass, we don't just say we are giving up, and no more family get-togethers.

Well to each their own. There is a respect factor and that is the point. Where I come from when a close friend or family member passes away we don't party and celebrate. People have feelings. Many are not in a mood for festivities. Sure people get together, but the things are toned down. Only selfish ticket holders would expect the band to to out and jam away three weeks after the fact. Besides, COVID is causing issues everywhere, so now you have two reasons to put it off and decide next year if it is worth continuing.

Again, it's your opinion of how YOU feel they need to handle this. That doesn't mean they are obliged to do what YOU think they should. They are capable of making up their own minds. When a family member passes, note how different people handle it in their OWN way, some may weep, some may joke, some may laugh at good times, some may go out and toast a drink. It's not up to anyone to decide what others should be doing.

I'm not saying how they should respond, just reacting to how Keith responded back when Charlie was ill, and how most Christians and people I know show respect for someone who has passed. We sometimes have memorials, viewings, funeral services, burials and gatherings for anyone who wishes to attend. Nobody is obliged to do anything. Personally, I don't care what you do, but my opinion stands whether you like it or not.

I agree that they don't owe us anything and they (MJ and KR) can do what they want. Charlie said in one of the interviews that Mick and Keith would continue without him. But the time is coming close when they will need to stop anyway. The question is whether this might be a good time.

Quote
The Sicilian

Quote
LeonidP

Quote
The Sicilian

Quote
MizzAmandaJonez
The pain Keith surely feels must be nearly unbearable, especially given the current near sober state his mind set seems to have gravitated to.

He’s kicked a lot of habits, but this will be the toughest.

I have no doubt the decision to continue on was gut wrenching for him, and likely with Charlie’s full blessing and support, if not his insistence.

It was a matter of time before someone posted this quote, but it’s merely a small footnote in the story of one of, if not THE greatest drummers and rhythm sections in the history of rock music, if not all types of music.

CHELSKEITH

The death of a family member or close friend is not like kicking a habit. It affects your heart and soul. There is a difference. It takes time to heal and grieve. For many people, they're never the same. People move on with their lives but some things are better left alone.

Of course, but not seeing the point. You're trying to make your own decision and judgment of how you think they should behave. And when I have a family member pass, we don't just say we are giving up, and no more family get-togethers.

Well to each their own. There is a respect factor and that is the point. Where I come from when a close friend or family member passes away we don't party and celebrate. People have feelings. Many are not in a mood for festivities. Sure people get together, but the things are toned down. Only selfish ticket holders would expect the band to to out and jam away three weeks after the fact. Besides, COVID is causing issues everywhere, so now you have two reasons to put it off and decide next year if it is worth continuing.

+1 Very well said.....

Quote
Rocky Dijon
I do not doubt for a second that the band is broken up by this personally. They understood the seriousness of Charlie's procedure and the risk afterwards as anyone would. The announcement of the tour, then the PR announcement about Charlie pulling out were not timed to make sure ticket sales were not impacted as some have cynically suggested. The timing was to give Charlie, Shirley, Serafina, and her daughter the privacy they deserved. Given that the procedure was not ultimately successful only reinforces how important a now-grieving family's privacy was to maximize their remaining time with Charlie. We're fans of a band. He wasn't our friend, our spouse, our Dad, our Grandfather. Those are the people whose grief takes priority.

As for the Keith quote, it was said while he and Mick were busy laying down demos for A BIGGER BANG. See it in that context. Keith also said at the same time to Mick "it looks like it's just you and me, pal." The things people say are not etched in granite. Keith's affection for Charlie may mean he stops or goes on. It doesn't change anything about their nearly 60 year run with the greatest drummer the greatest rock 'n' roll band in the world could have had. Without Charlie, they would never have claimed that title. He was as important as Mick, Keith, Brian, Mick Taylor, and Bill in earning it and Ronnie in maintaining it and Darryl and Chuck in helping honor it.

thank you

If the band tours without Charlie a precedent will be set - the money making machine rolls on notwithstanding the death of a founder member. So what happens if/when the same situation applies to Jagger or Richards, who would the others sign to take the place of the two most iconic figures in rock? Or would things be different then and, if so, why?

I saw an interview with John Lydon from about '79 when he was asked what he thought of the Stones as a band. His replied that he didn't see them as a band but more as a business. Harsh but a bit of truth in that. Although, I don't think it would continue without Mick or Keith. It started with those two.

And by «it» you mean the success, right?

Btw, there should be no doubt, Keith really loved Charlie. He used every opportunity to praise him. Must be very hard for him now.